NYC Schools going after 'sexting' outside of schools

[Maximum Carnage]

Kel just owned.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Outside of just this whole "sexting" thing, but even including it, I am realizing that the way I would raise my children would make certain people's heads explode.

 

[Spider-Who?]

No there's not, there is actually a very distinct line drawn through the bylaws of most districts. They usually run along these lines....

Within 300 yards of the school where the student attends, and until 4:00 p.m. what happens in that area, or on and around the districts transportation (bus) the school has jurisdiction. Other than that, no....it is not the school's responsibility.

As a teacher, I am not paid to raise the child, I am paid to teach the child. NOW, as a teacher I do need to take into account that student's home life, but that is simply a part of being a good teacher, I am not that student's parent, I don't have the law behind me that the parent has in certain areas, therefore those areas the teacher needs to STAY OUT OF....and teach. IF THAT CELLPHONE USAGE, as we are talking about in this case, is keeping learning from happening in my classroom....THEN AND ONLY THEN, does the law back ME AS THE EDUCATOR, and therefore, I can take that baby up, and follow the discipline plan of my school.

well, honestly, if there is such an issue causing problems like the one described in this thread, than that line isn't very distinct, now is it? which was exactly my point. YES, there are laws in place like what you described, but the fact of the matter is (as the topic of this thread shows), these laws are either not enough or easily manipulated or ignored.

What grade/subject do you teach? (its not a loaded question, I'm just curious)

My mother is a teacher, and I have many friends and parent of friends who are as well. Everything from kindergarten to 12th grade. Some of them would agree with your sentiments that your only obligation is to follow your curriculum. And others would disagree, and believe that school is just as much a place of learning morals and proper societal etiquette as home life (and in some cases, school is the ONLY opportunity to learn such things).

You spend 75% of your first 18 years at school. And you're going to sit here and tell me that those years in school haven't been in any way responsible for teaching you how to act in society?

I'm not saying there should be classes on morals and etiquette or that teachers need to "raise" the students, just that I can understand (and even agree with - TO AN EXTENT) the school's intent to help keep students from pursuing actions that might land them in trouble, even if it means stepping over that line some.

YES, ultimately, the students are not the schools children, and responsible parents will see to their child's proper development, but to deny that school plays any role or holds any responsibility in that as well is simply denying reality. If that were true, there wouldn't be any of the rules that we all detested in school; which is why - i can only assume - many people are disagreeing with me (which is fine, to each their own).

 

[Kelly]

My contract is what I am held to as an educator.....no where, does it say that I am to "teach" morality or even respect. What I can do as an educator is "model" responsibility, "model" good decision making, "model" respect of others, etc. No where in my TEKS does it say it is my responsibility to "teach" those things. I teach the National Standards as they are stated in My Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills, that is what my contract states I am supposed to teach. Does the school play a role in the development of students...YES. Are we responsible by law for that development? No....except in the realm of teaching the National Standards at each year of their educational development.... in the area of morals that is the parent. I am responsible by law to teach the TEKS for World Geography at the 9th grade level, what I said I "model" above is done to insure the proper classroom management of my students and curriculum, it IS NOT to take the place of, or become, or even mimic the parent.

Bottom line, if the "sexting" that is the discussion of this thread is not happening within the context of what I stated earlier in the thread, it is not the responsibility of the school. NOW, you want to write within the National Standards curriculum that states that "sexting" is wrong, fine.....but right now, it doesn't exist. Can I write a lesson about it? sure.....but then I would not be following my contract.

 

[Spider-Who?]

no where, does it say that I am to "teach" morality or even respect.

Okay. Where did I say that teachers should teach these things?

No where in my TEKS does it say it is my responsibility to "teach" those things.

Again, I never said that. In fact, THIS is what I DID say:

'm not saying there should be classes on morals and etiquette. In other words, I'm not saying these things should be actively taught, like you would your geography class. So unless you misunderstood me, I'm not sure why you keep enforcing that statement.

Does the school play a role in the development of students...YES.

Which is what I've been saying all a long.

Are we responsible by law for that development? No.

yes, there is no law stating that. But you and I are at an impasse when it comes to this, because, it is my own, personal belief and experience that a school is more than just a place where students learn what they need to pass state exams. Yes, scholastic achievements are the number one and primary cause for schools, but through day to day interaction with other students and staff, students DO learn fundamental aspects of functioning in society, and that includes punishment (involving the school itself or other students) for behavior deemed by society as wrong. There is no law stating the requirement to do this, but just because a law doesn't require it doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered as a proper thought process.

[QOUTE]in the area of morals that is the parent.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Again, i'm not saying teachers are meant to sit everybody down and tell them how to be good people; but as you said, it happens by example, by being a role model, even.


[QOUTE]Bottom line, if the "sexting" that is the discussion of this thread is not happening within the context of what I stated earlier in the thread, it is not the responsibility of the school.[/QUOTE]

If you reread my original post (instead of taking one sentence of it and running); you would see that I said "I think that schools are also responsible for the protection [which i believe the sexting issue in general can be considered to fall under] and [modeling] moral fiber of its students" [would you not agree that schools are responsible for protecting its students?]

and

"I certainly don't think that the school should have the final authority on matters that occur off of school grounds [ie this sexting issue], I do agree that if one students actions are affecting another - and the school is notified - the school needs to speak with the parents and decide on a course of action" because, as we all know from personal experience, what students do outside of the jurisdiction of school still has an effect on what goes on within.

In other words, in matters that aren't necessarily deemed "within" school jurisdiction, yet affect the school and or students all the same, parents and the school should have the right to work together to bring about a conclusion in order to protect the students.

If you don't agree with that, cool. You're entitled to it, and I fully respect that.

 

[Kelly]

But, that is what a teacher does.....we teach. So if you say it is our responsibility then how exactly are we to take care of this responsibility except to teach it?

I understand where you are coming from, but you are putting a responsibility on to the school that it just cannot do. We can model those things we think that students should learn as far as values, but we are not "responsible" in legal terms if the student does not follow whatever moral standing you think they should have. How do you quantify if the school did its job in the moral standing of its students? If the student goes to jail because they robbed a home, who is responsible? Who does the judge say is responsible. I can assure you the only thing that judge will want to know as far as the school is concerned is....how many times was the kid absent? What are his/her grades like. And that is the only responsibility that that judge will put on the school as to the decisions that that kid made. But, that judge will damn sure talk to that parent, ask where they were?

So, according to that judge who's responsibility is it to raise that kid?

The judge doesn't even hold the school responsible if the student doesn't attend, the school doesn't get the fine, the parent does.

If a student cusses out a teacher, the teacher doesn't get the ticket from the police officer,the police officer doesn't write the teacher a ticket for not teaching that student that it is wrong to show that disrespect, the parent gets the $500 ticket.

Does it take a village? sure.....but the village is not responsible for that child's values, the parent is....AND the student.


The school is responsible for that students protection under the confines of the law that I stated in an earlier post. Further than 300 yards, in some cases 400 and 4:00 p.m. no, that school is not responsible for that students safety unless that student is part of a school function that bares that school's name.

As far as sexting, as I also stated earlier, if it is happening within the confines of that school, or during a school sponsored activity, then yes that school is responsible for taking care of the discipline that is a part of that school's discipline plan.

Also, when the police investigate things that go on between students, yes they will investigate what happens at school, but only within the constraints of what I did before. What happens when school is in session will be a part of that investigation, but will those police officers hold the school responsible for what happens outside of that time? No....

IF bullying is happening during school time, and the school does nothing, the school should be held responsible....IF the bullying is not happening during school time, and at the home, etc.....then no the school is not responsible.

IF there is abuse going on at home and I find out about it, and do nothing.....UNDER THE LAW, I can be held responsible. BUT, that is legally set out in writing.....under the law, just as it is for Doctors, Nurses, etc....BUT, my responsibility ENDS immediately when I report the issue to my authority, the Assistant Principal, Principal, etc.

Just to give a few examples...

 

[Spider-Who?]

But, that is what a teacher does.....we teach. So if you say it is our responsibility then how exactly are we to take care of this responsibility except to teach it?

like i mentioned in my last post, and you did in yours: by being role models, praise when done well and punishment when wrong. there's more ways to learn that saying "turn to chapter 11 class"

I understand where you are coming from, but you are putting a responsibility on to the school that it just cannot do.

I really don't think I'm expressing anything that isn't already being done in schools. For example, my mother is an elementary school teacher. Being an artist, I often go in as a guest speaker. Been doing it for years. Each time, with out fail, she and her aid are "teaching" the students manners (be quiet when he's talking; say please; say thank you, etc).

We can model those things we think that students should learn as far as values, but we are not "responsible" in legal terms

of course not. and i think that is the fundamental issue between our view points. as a teacher, when you read me say "responsible", your taking it to mean from a legal standpoint, because that would directly affect you. I am not. My girlfriend says that I'm "responsible" for vacuuming our apartment. I'm not going to jail if i don't, but the place (and she) is nicer if I do.

if the student does not follow whatever moral standing you think they should have. How do you quantify if the school did its job in the moral standing of its students? If the student goes to jail because they robbed a home, who is responsible? Who does the judge say is responsible. I can assure you the only thing that judge will want to know as far as the school is concerned is....how many times was the kid absent? What are his/her grades like. And that is the only responsibility that that judge will put on the school as to the decisions that that kid made. But, that judge will damn sure talk to that parent, ask where they were?

So, according to that judge who's responsibility is it to raise that kid?

The judge doesn't even hold the school responsible if the student doesn't attend, the school doesn't get the fine, the parent does.

If a student cusses out a teacher, the teacher doesn't get the ticket from the police officer,the police officer doesn't write the teacher a ticket for not teaching that student that it is wrong to show that disrespect, the parent gets the $500 ticket.

Does it take a village? sure.....but the village is not responsible for that child's values, the parent is....AND the student.


The school is responsible for that students protection under the confines of the law that I stated in an earlier post. Further than 300 yards, in some cases 400 and 4:00 p.m. no, that school is not responsible for that students safety unless that student is part of a school function that bares that school's name.

As far as sexting, as I also stated earlier, if it is happening within the confines of that school, or during a school sponsored activity, then yes that school is responsible for taking care of the discipline that is a part of that school's discipline plan.

Also, when the police investigate things that go on between students, yes they will investigate what happens at school, but only within the constraints of what I did before. What happens when school is in session will be a part of that investigation, but will those police officers hold the school responsible for what happens outside of that time? No....

IF bullying is happening during school time, and the school does nothing, the school should be held responsible....IF the bullying is not happening during school time, and at the home, etc.....then no the school is not responsible.

only thing i'll disagree with (somewhat) in this post. Yes, this is the way things are handled now, and yes, the school doesn't have the right to punish the bully for his actions outside of school. However, referring back to my very first post, this would be a situation where I feel that the school should be allowed to intervene (at request of the victim's parents) to discuss the matter with the bully (and his parents) and take measures to ****** it since it'd only be a matter of time before it began to happen within school.

IF there is abuse going on at home and I find out about it, and do nothing.....UNDER THE LAW, I can be held responsible. BUT, that is legally set out in writing.....under the law, just as it is for Doctors, Nurses, etc....BUT, my responsibility ENDS immediately when I report the issue to my authority, the Assistant Principal, Principal, etc.

Just to give a few examples...

excellent examples and points. However, again i think our differences lie in how severely you and i are perceiving what it means to be "responsible" for protection and learned interaction skills (morals, manners, whatever) of students. I am not discussing this in a legal sense. And hell, maybe "responsibility" isn't the proper word to use in this discussion since you're taking it in its most literal meaning where as that was not my intent.

 

[Alex The Great]

As a teenager, my stance on the matter is...well, meh. I've never done the whole sexting thing, maybe crappy, yet hilarious text conversations with females, but nothing like that

 

[Kelly]

like i mentioned in my last post, and you did in yours: by being role models, praise when done well and punishment when wrong. there's more ways to learn that saying "turn to chapter 11 class"



I really don't think I'm expressing anything that isn't already being done in schools. For example, my mother is an elementary school teacher. Being an artist, I often go in as a guest speaker. Been doing it for years. Each time, with out fail, she and her aid are "teaching" the students manners (be quiet when he's talking; say please; say thank you, etc).



of course not. and i think that is the fundamental issue between our view points. as a teacher, when you read me say "responsible", your taking it to mean from a legal standpoint, because that would directly affect you. I am not. My girlfriend says that I'm "responsible" for vacuuming our apartment. I'm not going to jail if i don't, but the place (and she) is nicer if I do.





only thing i'll disagree with (somewhat) in this post. Yes, this is the way things are handled now, and yes, the school doesn't have the right to punish the bully for his actions outside of school. However, referring back to my very first post, this would be a situation where I feel that the school should be allowed to intervene (at request of the victim's parents) to discuss the matter with the bully (and his parents) and take measures to ****** it since it'd only be a matter of time before it began to happen within school.



excellent examples and points. However, again i think our differences lie in how severely you and i are perceiving what it means to be "responsible" for protection and learned interaction skills (morals, manners, whatever) of students. I am not discussing this in a legal sense. And hell, maybe "responsibility" isn't the proper word to use in this discussion since you're taking it in its most literal meaning where as that was not my intent.

I think our difference of opinion only lies within the context of the responsibility.

If you believe that the school should be "held accountable" for the responsibility of teaching children values that should in fact be a parenting responsibility, we disagree.

If you believe that it is and can be done within the context of classroom management and the discipline plan of the school (and that is where the responsibility of the school lies), and the school is not "held accountable" as a pseudo-parent to the children, then we can agree.