Religion in the DCU

[Xofenroht]

I never said anything about non-practicing. Technically an atheist is a non-practicing christian is his parents were christian.

And he has met the Spectre...so yeah her would have to believe in a higher power

A non practicing Christian is someone who believes in the Christian faith yet simply doesn't attend church or pray before meals or things like that.
An Atheist doesn't even have the beliefs there to make doing these things relevant.
Therefore there is no way that an Atheist could be any form of a "non-practicing" Christian.

Heck, I was raised Baptist and baptised into the faith, but I'm not a non-practicing Baptist-Christian NOR am I even remotely a Christian, and my family promotes the Christian ideals and practices.

And there's a difference between Kryptonians and Japanese people. That being that the Japanese are still human, while Kryptonians aren't. The Bible places emphasis on "The Son of Man", moreover in the New Testament, so the "made in gods image" argument doesn't apply to Supes anyway.
In response to the "why are you people so adamant in believing that Superman isn't Christian" I just say: why are you so adamant in believing that he is?
I'm not saying that he belongs to any religion in particular, while most others seem to be pinning him down to one single religion. This particular one just seems senseless of an alien to follow, who cares that a man on Earth apparently died for "the sins of man" when you're from a whole other planet, where that never happened. Especially when the planet you're from is very much scientifically advanced, far beyond human capabilities.
Call me crazy and dumb if you want to. But I stand by my assertions. They aren't anymore ridiculous than the idea that he is.

 

[Agentdemon]

I'm not saying that he belongs to any religion in particular, while most others seem to be pinning him down to one single religion. This particular one just seems senseless of an alien to follow, who cares that a man on Earth apparently died for "the sins of man" when you're from a whole other planet, where that never happened. Especially when the planet you're from is very much scientifically advanced, far beyond human capabilities.
Call me crazy and dumb if you want to. But I stand by my assertions. They aren't anymore ridiculous than the idea that he is.

lol I totally agree.

 

[BrianWilly]

I don't understand how Superman comes off as being Jewish. Granted, I don't really know anything at all about being Jewish, so maybe someone could educate me on this reasoning?

To me, it makes most sense that Superman is a non-practicing Christian. He was raised in a predominantly Christian part of the country. During one of the most trying times in his life, he has specifically sought the counsel of a Catholic priest. Specifically.

I don't think it matters one whit that Superman is an alien...there are many many Christians in the world that believe in evolution, alien life, the whole nine. Belief in the existence of evolution and the wonders of science does not invalidate belief in the existence of God, no matter what some fundamentalists might think. All that matters in the end is to believe that Jesus Christ is the path to salvation. The Bible doesn't mention aliens, but so what? The Bible doesn't mention string cheese. If God accept truly repentent sinners into heaven, he'll make room for an alien or two.

 

[BlackOpsTengu]

I find religion in the DCU to be pretty well balanced. They obviously have to walk a very tight tightrope to walk, but I think it comes off quite well. Each religion thinks its right and has supernatural beings which prove they're "right", but then it all comes down to the true "source" of these beings which is open to interpretation.

When I get a chance to get caught up on some of the stuff I've bought, but haven't had an opportunity to read, I plan on getting John Ostrander's Spectre run. It looks fantastic from what I've seen so far. It's hard to get good Christian themed comics/stories now adays that stay true to the source material i.e. the Bible (So Preacher doesn't count ). The closest I've found that aren't trash is the loosely Christian inspired Chrno Crusade manga and parts of Neon Genesis Evangelion (which had a very awesome viseral take on armageddon).

 

[BrianWilly]

I'm not saying that he belongs to any religion in particular, while most others seem to be pinning him down to one single religion. This particular one just seems senseless of an alien to follow, who cares that a man on Earth apparently died for "the sins of man" when you're from a whole other planet, where that never happened. Especially when the planet you're from is very much scientifically advanced, far beyond human capabilities.

I'm sorry, but I really am going to have to call the BS card on this. If you believe in God, then you believe that he is present in all and everything in the world, which includes outer space, which includes Krypton. Just because the Bible on earth doesn't include anything about aliens doesn't mean that aliens aren't included in God's plan; show me where it says that God is going to turn someone away from his kingdom because they're from another planet. What does it matter which planet he comes from? It matters which planet he's on now. Superman considers Earth his home and humans his peers. Of course the sins of man is of importance to him. Like the Martian Manhunter said: sentient beings share more similarities than differences. Superman could easily apply Christian belief to his background and heritage, not to mention the life that he currently lives.

And like I said, belief in science does not negate a belief in God. How many Christian, Jewish, and Muslim scientists do you wanna bet exist in the world? Next you're gonna tell me that all Christians think the world was created in seven days. Not how it works; I know plenty of people who treat those aspects of the Bible as metaphors and parables instead of outright word-for-word fact, and still consider themselves devout Christians.

And to think, I'm not even Christian. Far from it.

 

[BlackOpsTengu]

To jump right into this specific argument, has anyone read the Space Trilogy by C.S. Lewis? It has a very interesting take on "aliens" existing in God's universe. In a manner, they're all talking animals essentially. This makes a lot of sense when you realise most "aliens" are exactly that, anthrophomorphised and mixed up animal life forms on THIS planet. It fits quite well with the biblical views on man's place in the universe and his relations to all other forms of life which God made. Man was created to rule and guide these beings, but not in an oppressive or dictatorial sense. The new Adam and Eve of Venus are essentially the kings of the planet, but they have no concept of sin and thus don't exploit or take advantage of the other forms of intelegent life on their planet. They're technically the rulers, but everyone just naturally does their own thing without any problems or power struggle. They recognise they're all part of the same family and treat each other with respect. The coolest descriptions in the book are the awe inspiring angels called Oyarsu, who act as mankind's tutors and trainers. Think of them as cosmic gaurdians, they run the universe while mankind is growing into its destiny. When the main character Ranson showed up on Mars in the previous book, it was the evil scientists that kidnapped him who had designs of conquest and explotation of these "alien" beings, not the "Christians".

 

[Sentry2005]

If you have faith, you believe in God no matter what. Regardless of what logic or science dictates, you believe in a higher power. If Supe's is a religious guy, it doesn't matter that he's from another planet, or that Krypton is scientifically waaaaaaaaay more advnaced than us.

My feelings on Superman... I don't think he's any religion really. He was brought up to do right by people, to help when people need it. His parents did that. They gave him morals. I don't think they preached religion to him.

This plus that fact he is DC's flagship character lead me to assume they wouldn't want him benig biased to anyone religion, and so present him as none.

 

[Xofenroht]

What you all seem to fail to understand is that you don't have to be Christian to believe in God. I never said he didn't believe in God, I just said he might not believe in the Christian.
I mean, geez, Judeo-Christian faiths aren't the only ones out there promoting the existence of a supreme being. Some of you guys are acting as if God is exclusive to just one religion.
Seriously, get a grip.

 

[BrianWilly]

You said, and I quote:

This particular one just seems senseless of an alien to follow, who cares that a man on Earth apparently died for "the sins of man" when you're from a whole other planet, where that never happened. Especially when the planet you're from is very much scientifically advanced, far beyond human capabilities.

This is a faulty way of looking at Christianity, and people have been telling you it's a faulty way of looking at Christianity, and you just go on looking at Christianity like that. It has nothing to do with whether or not God is patented to one religion or not, it has to do with your argument not holding up.

People have said that geographically and culturally speaking it makes most sense that Superman is Christian. They have brought up his conversations with Father Leone. They have brought up Pa Kent's leaning towards Christianity. You keep acting like we're pulling this Christianity thing out of our asses, which is clearly not the case.

I've asked people to explain why they think Superman is Jewish, since I don't know too much about Judaism, and so far no one has given me any indication of this...so I don't know where you're going with this whole "Christianity doesn't own God" thing.

 

[Xofenroht]

No one said Superman was Jewish. If they did, I think they were suggesting that his creators were Jewish, so therefore they didn't think he would be portrayed as Christian. The idea of human perfection being Christian, when this idea of human perfection was personified by Jews? This is probably why it's argued that he couldn't be, simply because of the people who created him.

My argument overall is saying that despite all of the things which would make Superman seem Christian, he probably isn't. I'm acknowledging that all of these things did occur, I never suggested that they didn't. I think I read the issue where he spoke to a priest, but the fact still stands. Regardless of his being raised by conservative Christian parents in an area with a high concentration of conservative Christians, he's still not necessarily Christian. That's all I'm saying. Besides, all I've been saying is based on my opinions of Superman as the alien he is. SUPERMAN may not be Christian but the Clark Kent persona might be. As Superman he doesn't have to blend in, therefore he doesn't have to make it look like he's apart of the majority of people living on Earth. As Clark Kent he has to adopt a certain view about how he thinks the average man would be.

 

[fifthfiend]

Batman doesn't believe in God or gods, any more than he believes in criminals or the Batmobile or Superman. He just knows they're there and he deals with them as needs be.

Pre-Crisis Superman is Jewish because come on he's totally Moses. Post-Crisis Superman is Jewish because everyone knows Jesus was a Jew.

 

[Xofenroht]

Batman doesn't believe in God or gods, any more than he believes in criminals or the Batmobile or Superman. He just knows they're there and he deals with them as needs be.

Pre-Crisis Superman is Jewish because come on he's totally Moses. Post-Crisis Superman is Jewish because everyone knows Jesus was a Jew.

What the hell kind of reasoning?

 

[dk_thebatman]

Batman doesn't believe in God or gods, any more than he believes in criminals or the Batmobile or Superman. He just knows they're there and he deals with them as needs be.

Pre-Crisis Superman is Jewish because come on he's totally Moses. Post-Crisis Superman is Jewish because everyone knows Jesus was a Jew.

I hope that's a joke.... Because otherwise I'm gonna shed a tear for the death of good logic

 

[The Question]

No one said Superman was Jewish. If they did, I think they were suggesting that his creators were Jewish, so therefore they didn't think he would be portrayed as Christian. The idea of human perfection being Christian, when this idea of human perfection was personified by Jews? This is probably why it's argued that he couldn't be, simply because of the people who created him.

My argument overall is saying that despite all of the things which would make Superman seem Christian, he probably isn't. I'm acknowledging that all of these things did occur, I never suggested that they didn't. I think I read the issue where he spoke to a priest, but the fact still stands. Regardless of his being raised by conservative Christian parents in an area with a high concentration of conservative Christians, he's still not necessarily Christian. That's all I'm saying. Besides, all I've been saying is based on my opinions of Superman as the alien he is. SUPERMAN may not be Christian but the Clark Kent persona might be. As Superman he doesn't have to blend in, therefore he doesn't have to make it look like he's apart of the majority of people living on Earth. As Clark Kent he has to adopt a certain view about how he thinks the average man would be.

1) How do you know Ma and Pa are conservative Christians? They've never been portrayed as such.

2) I don't think he'd fake a religious beleif on a day to day basis just to blend in. And personally, I don't think of SUperman and Clark as two seperate entities. Just two sides of the same coin. If Superman isn't religious, I don't see why Clark would pretend to bve religious. Really, he seems like an agnostic humanist to me. He beleives that there may or may not be some higher power, but doesn't really care, and is more interested in how humans can develope on their own.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Batman doesn't believe in God or gods, any more than he believes in criminals or the Batmobile or Superman. He just knows they're there and he deals with them as needs be.

Considering that Wonder Woman is a champion of Athena, a was once a god, the Spectre is the Spirit of God's Vengance, Hawkman is tied to the Egyptian gods. Its safe to assume that Batman does believe in gods, but he just doesn't worship them

Pre-Crisis Superman is Jewish because come on he's totally Moses. Post-Crisis Superman is Jewish because everyone knows Jesus was a Jew.

WTF

 

[rigel7soldiers]

Well, Batman's more a

Barman doesn't believe they're gods, more than likely. Rather, that they're pan dimensional beings, or something like that. Gah, this sorta thing was explained in Hellstrom's ongoing, if I could just find te words..

Sorta like how Asgard is just anothr dimension, rather than some place in the mountains where those who have domain over all live.

 

[SuGarRush]

Ok now.
Obviously Batman realizes that there are supernatural powers at work that cannot be explained by science. It doesn't mean he worships them, but he's definetly not an Atheist.
Superman if he holds to any religion is most likely Christian. Based on the location he was raised in, the values he has portrayed as taught to him by Pa nad Ma (who are Christian), these factors point at Christianity. His tendencies towards humanism however tend to lend themselves to the idea that he might not have any particular belief system.

The most important thign to remember is

Clark puts on a costume to become Superman

Batman puts on a costume to become Bruce


Clark is who he really is, superman is what he dresses up as.

 

[Not Jake]

On Superman and Christianity, I mean, I have no problem believing he's Christian, considering the whole point of Superman is that he's really still that farmboy raised by Ma & Pa Kent. Who cares if he found out he's an alien, believing in God entails the belief that God is a universal entity, not just creator of Earth. Really, what's the prob?

 

[Xofenroht]

1) How do you know Ma and Pa are conservative Christians? They've never been portrayed as such.

2) I don't think he'd fake a religious beleif on a day to day basis just to blend in. And personally, I don't think of SUperman and Clark as two seperate entities. Just two sides of the same coin. If Superman isn't religious, I don't see why Clark would pretend to bve religious. Really, he seems like an agnostic humanist to me. He beleives that there may or may not be some higher power, but doesn't really care, and is more interested in how humans can develope on their own.

I never said they were originally, someone else said it to argue against me. Remember, in my post I said I'd acknowledge these things.

 

[The Question]

Ok now.
Obviously Batman realizes that there are supernatural powers at work that cannot be explained by science. It doesn't mean he worships them, but he's definetly not an Atheist.
Superman if he holds to any religion is most likely Christian. Based on the location he was raised in, the values he has portrayed as taught to him by Pa nad Ma (who are Christian), these factors point at Christianity. His tendencies towards humanism however tend to lend themselves to the idea that he might not have any particular belief system.

The most important thign to remember is

Clark puts on a costume to become Superman

Batman puts on a costume to become Bruce


Clark is who he really is, superman is what he dresses up as.

I agree with ya' here. But as for Superman, I really think that he doesn't have any particular beleif system, simply because I think he's seen too many beleifs and heard too many opinions in his travels to tie himself down to any one. At least, that's how see it.

I never said they were originally, someone else said it to argue against me. Remember, in my post I said I'd acknowledge these things.

Sorry. Didn't read it carefully enough.

 

[Bullseye]

Very interesting thread. I've never really payed close attention to a DCU character's religion if the character was religious.

 

[The Question]

Sidious: RISE, Lord Religion in the DCU thread!





Also, about Superman's Kryptonian name being Jewish: It's based on the Hebrew phrase "Kol El," which means "everything that is from God."

 

[Bullseye]

Does that mean that Superman is Jewish?

 

[The Question]

No. But his creators were. Man their story was sad. Joe Shuster went blind, and Jerry Seigle's later work on the Human Torch solo series for Marvel was an abysmal failure. Stan Lee had to rewrite alot of Jerry's scripts because they weren't that good. And they never saw a dime of royalties from Superman.


EDIT: Actually, they did get a decent settlement from DC. But not the millions that Superman had made.

EDIT: Sorry for the tangent.

 

[Feline]

Jeeze, why are so many people adamant about Superman not being a Christian? The guy was raised in Kansas. Maybe he's just a non-practicing Christian.

But frankly, I have a feeling that most DC heroes are essentially Universalists. Some Universalists believe that practically all paths are right on some level, and you only have to pick the one you want. Seeing as how we know several patheons of Gods exist in the DC universe, as well as one all-mighty force The Spectre works for, I don't see how anyone in the JLA isn't into Universalism.

I don't think the heroes themselves are universalists. I think the writers just don't want to favor any one particular religion. I think they want to make sure that all those religions are right so the readers don't feel like they are saying a certain religion is not correct. Also, I don't see why a martian CAN'T be a Chrisitan. Also, the Bible doesn't mention a lot of things, if God created the universe, that includes Kryptonians and martians. It would include them. Just because there isn't a Bible there, does not mean they are not believers in Christ or God.

I don't go to Church or pray before meals, that does make me a non=practicing Christian? I follow the moral codes that Christianity is based on and I do pray. I just pray in my head while I'm laying down and going to sleep. You can be atheist and have moral codes, too, but what really is a non-practicing Christian? I don't go up to candles and pray, would that mean that I am a non-practicing Christian because I don't kneel before I pray? No. Science is the study of the Universe, if God created the Universe, then you get my point. Animals are not mankind, yet it says in verses that animals look to God for sustenance and deliverance, so God sent his Son to die for them, too. I don't think that "mankind" really means "humans".

Why would he even care though?? Doesn't he do whats right because he feels it right, and not to please some god or get some reward after he is dead

I don't do good things to go to Heaven or get a reward either. I just do good things because I feel it's right. I don't get up and say to God "God, please make me do good things because you say so." I do them because I feel that it's right.