Xbox Starfield

[DarthSkywalker]

and the rumors just keep on coming...

IMO this will end up happening with all major releases. A year or so of exclusivity, and then off to Playstation. What we've been seeing is the internal calculation and an attempt to quell fears before a few of their upcoming big releases, but the writing is on the wall.

There is a reason they talked about a, "non-exclusive" world coming up and why they would not deny that two of the games they mentioned by name wouldn't eventually come to Playstation.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

IMO this will end up happening with all major releases. A year or so of exclusivity, and then off to Playstation. What we've been seeing is the internal calculation and an attempt to quell fears before a few of their upcoming big releases, but the writing is on the wall.

There is a reason they talked about a, "non-exclusive" world coming up and why they would not deny that two of the games they mentioned by name wouldn't eventually come to Playstation.

I have my doubts since Microsoft announced that they have no plans to cease making hardware. the future of Xbox consoles production-wise seems fine. and also as @Iceman pointed out, this particular source's reliability is questionable.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I have my doubts since Microsoft announced that they have no plans to case making hardware. the future of Xbox consoles production-wise seems fine. and also as @Iceman pointed out, this particular source's reliability is questionable.

I don't expect them to stop making hardware, but I also think their strategy is very different, and tied very much to gamepass. Which changes how they sell software. They've tanked their own software by making Xbox exclusives day 1 on gamepass.

I think what they'll try to do is pivot to trying to be gaming Netflix. Get all you want here, for a monthly fee. While getting the cash on software sales from those that were never going to buy an Xbox or play on PC anyway.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I don't expect them to stop making hardware, but I also think their strategy is very different, and tied very much to gamepass. Which changes how they sell software. They've tanked their own software by making Xbox exclusives day 1 on gamepass.

I think what they'll try to do is pivot to trying to be gaming Netflix. Get all you want here, for a monthly fee. While getting the cash on software sales from those that were never going to buy an Xbox or play on PC anyway.

in my opinion, game pass already is gaming Netflix. but if they don't cease to make hardware, then I believe they still have the underlying goal to one day overtake Sony as the market leader. otherwise, why would they waste production costs on it?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

in my opinion, game pass already is gaming Netflix. but if they don't cease to make hardware, then I believe they still have the underlying goal to one day overtake Sony as the market leader. otherwise, why would they waste production costs on it?

They make hardware, because otherwise gamepass is inaccessible to a large portion of the market.

For them to properly be gaming Netflix, they need the biggest games. And they just don't have those. Which is why I think they're trying to soften their relationship with Sony and even Nintendo. Now do I think that'll work? No. Not in a manner where they're able to overtake either. Because both of those companies are run by people who understand the gaming landscape far better then Microsoft, who continue to harm themselves through extremely bad PR every 6 months.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

They make hardware, because otherwise gamepass is inaccessible to a large portion of the market.

dang, I didn't even think about that. that's a very important point!

For them to properly be gaming Netflix, they need the biggest games. And they just don't have those. Which is why I think they're trying to soften their relationship with Sony and even Nintendo. Now do I think that'll work? No. Not in a manner where they're able to overtake either. Because both of those companies are run by people who understand the gaming landscape far better then Microsoft, who continue to harm themselves through extremely bad PR every 6 months.

they have CoD, which from an industry perspective, is the biggest game. it's why Activision was the biggest third party publisher (I think, unless it's because of Candy Crush) which was also not just Xbox's, but Microsoft's biggest acquisition of all time. If they wanted to, they could just go ahead and make CoD a day an date release, then it'll not only become a system seller but a MASSIVE threat to Sony as well.

Microsoft may not understand the gaming landscape like Sony and Nintendo do, but their pockets are much, much, deeper.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

dang, I didn't even think about that. that's a very important point!

they have CoD, which from an industry perspective, is the biggest game. it's why Activision was the biggest third party publisher (I think, unless it's because of Candy Crush) which was also not just Xbox's, but Microsoft's biggest acquisition of all time. If they wanted to, they could just go ahead and make CoD a day an date release, then it'll not only become a system seller but a MASSIVE threat to Sony as well.

Microsoft may not understand the gaming landscape like Sony and Nintendo do, but their pockets are much, much, deeper.

They could do that, in 10 years. But here's the issue imo. What is more likely, a lot of people buying Xbox to play CoD, or CoD losing it's status? I think it's the latter. As gamers have shown, they will grab ahold of a great game or franchise that is readily accessible. Look at the success of Baldur's Gate, while Starfield has basically died on the vine. Heck, who even knows what the landscape is in a decade.

Microsoft has crazy money. But they're also a business, and Xbox has been a big loser for basically a decade now. Which is why we're seeing pivoting now. They've wasted two gens failing time and again, and their last three major exclusives, have all failed spectacularly. Buying up a publisher is nice, but if you gut them, take away what made them special, they become another expensive paper weight.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

They could do that, in 10 years.

couldn't they just do it now? iirc, the 10 year contract that Sony & Microsoft signed was just for ensuring that CoD will be on playstation, that's it. there is no stipulation of CoD not being a day 1 release on gamepass, alongside retail releases.

But here's the issue imo. What is more likely, a lot of people buying Xbox to play CoD, or CoD losing it's status? I think it's the latter. As gamers have shown, they will grab ahold of a great game or franchise that is readily accessible.

if I am being completely honest, I definitely see CoD becoming a super system seller for Xbox. 2022's MW2 was literally the best selling game in the series at launch, and this was the 19th overall installment in the series. If the series is going that strong after all this time, I don't ever see the series losing status.

Look at the success of Baldur's Gate, while Starfield has basically died on the vine. Heck, who even knows what the landscape is in a decade.

I wouldn't necessarily say Starfield "died on the vine." by the end of last year, the game had over 13 million players. how could such a huge player base be considered a flop?

Microsoft has crazy money. But they're also a business, and Xbox has been a big loser for basically a decade now. Which is why we're seeing pivoting now. They've wasted two gens failing time and again, and their last three major exclusives, have all failed spectacularly. Buying up a publisher is nice, but if you gut them, take away what made them special, they become another expensive paper weight.

I've asked this question many times and the answer hasn't ever been clear. Why is Xbox considered the big loser? Just because they're in third place? As long as people buy their products and they are making money, isn't that enough to guarantee that the brand is here to stay and stick around? Not every product has to be a best seller, or in first place just to be considered a success and not a failure, in my opinion.

 

[Iceman]

haha, yeah it does not give credence to the rumor but apparently he was right about several other rumors in the recent past

Tom Warren is following the account now and it’s gone from 64 to over 3,000 followers since so who knows.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Tom Warren is following the account now and it’s gone from 64 to over 3,000 followers since so who knows.

I feel so ignorant for asking this but who is Tom Warren? I'm afraid I'm not so familiar with insiders except for Jason Schreier.

 

[Iceman]

I feel so ignorant for asking this but who is Tom Warren? I'm afraid I'm not so familiar with insiders except for Jason Schreier.

Ah sorry haha, he’s a senior editor at The Verge but generally a prominent voice in this space. I’d expect more people like that who need to be up to date to be following accounts with track records.

And to the point, I don’t really mind whatever the long term strategy is, I just don’t want to lose the ecosystem, friends, historic digitally bought games, achievements etc. In other words allow me to keep the account across pc and beyond (or allow a transfer of sorts) even if physical console days are numbered. And regardless of that, games like Sea of Thieves and Grounded would be better as multiplats from day 1.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Ah sorry haha, he’s a senior editor at The Verge but generally a prominent voice in this space. I’d expect more people like that who need to be up to date to be following accounts with track records.

don't be sorry, I feel like I should have known who he is because of his prominence. so I guess since he has started following that Twitter account, the credibility has strengthened?

And to the point, I don’t really mind whatever the long term strategy is, I just don’t want to lose the ecosystem, friends, historic digitally bought games, achievements etc. In other words allow me to keep the account across pc and beyond (or allow a transfer of sorts) even if physical console days are numbered. And regardless of that, games like Sea of Thieves and Grounded would be better as multiplats from day 1.

I think Microsoft will find some way to make a full integration with Windows happen. Gamepass is already on Windows, so it could just be like the two different versions merge together and whatever someone has on Xbox, their gamer tag their library, it all becomes accessible as their Microsoft gaming library of sorts.

 

[Iceman]

don't be sorry, I feel like I should have known who he is because of his prominence. so I guess since he has started following that Twitter account, the credibility has strengthened?

I think Microsoft will find some way to make a full integration with Windows happen. Gamepass is already on Windows, so it could just be like the two different versions merge together and whatever someone has on Xbox, their gamer tag their library, it all becomes accessible as their Microsoft gaming library of sorts.

You'd expect any account that is putting out legit info to be of interest to more than 64 followers, and the more prominent followers the more likely there's something behind it.

Well that would be awesome. I have no idea how the licensing would work though as the companies who developed all the games might be wanting more revenue as they didn't sell a pc version. Also they're not all going to suddenly develop pc ports for free, especially with many of the game companies no longer even being around. If it was streaming only and they could get the rights to stream everything (also I believe not at all straightforward) that would still be much better than losing everything bought over 2 decades. The account history would be the most important thing for me though with records of games played/achievements etc. It's like a long term diary of gaming history that would be the most painful part to give up.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

You'd expect any account that is putting out legit info to be of interest to more than 64 followers, and the more prominent followers the more likely there's something behind it.

yeah I guess then it really says something that it has gained so many overnight followers, including Warren?

Well that would be awesome. I have no idea how the licensing would work though as the companies who developed all the games might be wanting more revenue as they didn't sell a pc version. Also they're not all going to suddenly develop pc ports for free, especially with many of the game companies no longer even being around. If it was streaming only and they could get the rights to stream everything (also I believe not at all straightforward) that would still be much better than losing everything bought over 2 decades. The account history would be the most important thing for me though with records of games played/achievements etc. It's like a long term diary of gaming history that would be the most painful part to give up.

Microsoft might already be thinking of some ways to do an integration like that. but if and when it were to happen, I don't think it would be for at least the rest of the generation. and if Microsoft doesn't plan to stop making hardware, then I feel like it's very unlikely that it's a reality anyway.

I imagine if it does happen, it'll be something similar to the merging that Sony did with PsNow to the additional tiers made available to PsPlus.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

in my opinion, game pass already is gaming Netflix. but if they don't cease to make hardware, then I believe they still have the underlying goal to one day overtake Sony as the market leader. otherwise, why would they waste production costs on it?

Xbox will never be the hardware market leader again. Don Mattrick killed any possibility of that. Microsoft cares more about you playing on Windows than they do Xbox hardware. My tinfoil hat theory is they have been trying to ween their player base off of first party hardware since the Xbones disastrous launch. What I would do moving forward is turn the Xbox brand into a line of budget gaming pcs that run your choice of the Xbox dashboard or windows.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Xbox will never be the hardware market leader again.

I don't think they ever were the market leader to begin with.

Xbox will never be the hardware market leader again. Don Mattrick killed any possibility of that. Microsoft cares more about you playing on Windows than they do Xbox hardware. My tinfoil hat theory is they have been trying to ween their player base off of first party hardware since the Xbones disastrous launch.

That's actually quite a collectively popular theory. But I don't think that's what they've been trying to do, honestly. I really feel like with acquiring Zenimax, then acquiring Activision, they were being extremely aggressive on trying to gain the marketshare that they lost to get a chance at it again. If they made CoD exclusive and/or a gamepass exclusive, then I think they would be able to do exactly that. and they probably still will after 10 years.

What I would do moving forward is turn the Xbox brand into a line of budget gaming pcs that run your choice of the Xbox dashboard or windows.

I've seen this idea thrown around as well. if that does happen, then it'll end up meaning that (eventually) playstation games will be on Xbox as well.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Hopefully we get some news on Shattered Space soon. I'm expecting it to be a pretty big DLC.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

I don't think they ever were the market leader to begin with.

That's actually quite a collectively popular theory. But I don't think that's what they've been trying to do, honestly. I really feel like with acquiring Zenimax, then acquiring Activision, they were being extremely aggressive on trying to gain the marketshare that they lost to get a chance at it again. If they made CoD exclusive and/or a gamepass exclusive, then I think they would be able to do exactly that. and they probably still will after 10 years.

I've seen this idea thrown around as well. if that does happen, then it'll end up meaning that (eventually) playstation games will be on Xbox as well.

They were 100% the market leader in the 360 era. Outselling the PS3 almost two to one for the first four years then they completely **** the bed with Xbone. The Xbox Series consoles look like PC towers. They're not even hiding it at this point and PC gaming is more affordable now than its ever been. My current rig cost as much as my first GPU (adjusted for inflation.) The only thing that's ever going to sell hardware are true exclusives and Xbox doesn't have any anymore. 500 for a gamepass machine isn't sustainable and that's by design. Microsoft is a software company first and foremost and 70 percent of PCs on the planet run their software. Xbox is a blip in comparison.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

They were 100% the market leader in the 360 era.

no they weren't. if we are talking about hardware sales only, then the Wii was the market leader, not the 360 or the Ps3.

Outselling the PS3 almost two to one for the first four years then they completely **** the bed with Xbone.

the first three years of the Ps3's life cycle were certainly atrocious, but after all of the price cuts and critically acclaimed games started coming around, eventually the console caught up and even surpassed the sales of the 360 while both consoles were still in production.

by that time it didn't really matter though, because the Xbone and Ps4 had already launched.

The Xbox Series consoles look like PC towers. They're not even hiding it at this point and PC gaming is more affordable now than its ever been. My current rig cost as much as my first GPU (adjusted for inflation.) The only thing that's ever going to sell hardware are true exclusives and Xbox doesn't have any anymore.

this is why I said above that if the next Xbox actually is just a low spec, affordable PC then it means that eventually playstation games will make it to Xbox.

500 for a gamepass machine isn't sustainable and that's by design.

not sustainable for the console, or the service?

Microsoft is a software company first and foremost and 70 percent of PCs on the planet run their software. Xbox is a blip in comparison.

Microsoft definitely left a mark with the Xbox brand. Even if it is a blip compared to the rest of their company, their biggest ever acquisition was for the blip. I wouldn't count them out just yet.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

no they weren't. if we are talking about hardware sales only, then the Wii was the market leader, not the 360 or the Ps3.

the first three years of the Ps3's life cycle were certainly atrocious, but after all of the price cuts and critically acclaimed games started coming around, eventually the console caught up and even surpassed the sales of the 360 while both consoles were still in production.

by that time it didn't really matter though, because the Xbone and Ps4 had already launched.

this is why I said above that if the next Xbox actually is just a low spec, affordable PC then it means that eventually playstation games will make it to Xbox.

not sustainable for the console, or the service?

Microsoft definitely left a mark with the Xbox brand. Even if it is a blip compared to the rest of their company, their biggest ever acquisition was for the blip. I wouldn't count them out just yet.

Not just sales. The 360 was the lead development platform for that generation as well that's why there are so many dog **** ps3 ports. Target platform was 30 fps on 360 for multiplatform games then they were ported to ps3. The largest acquisition wasn't for just for Xbox. Sure they used Xbox branding but all those titles get day 1 PC releases which is their primary focus of the majority of their business. I don't have to count them out. They've deliberately done that themselves. Again, to sell hardware, you have to have true exclusives. The Xbox Brand doesn't have that. They don't even have storefront exclusives anymore. Their games get day 1 steam releases too. They want you playing on Windows. To clarify, I don't think the gamepass model is enough to sustain first party hardware production. Their focus seems to be being the Netflix of video games not the dominant hardware platform and they've basically done it, but they also understand completely abandoning their Xbox player base is bad for business too. Hell, physical Xbox games aren't required to have complete playable builds on the disc (Sony does require this.)

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Not just sales. The 360 was the lead development platform for that generation as well that's why there are so many dog **** ps3 ports.

yeah, that's an unfortunate truth. the cell processor, as powerful as it was, was very complicated for developers in the seventh generation. the only games that I can think of where Ps3 had the advantage were Tekken 6 & FFS13, and that's probably only because of two things 1. those games were originally planned to be Ps3 exclusive and 2. the Blu-ray disc just holds more information than the DVD

Target platform was 30 fps on 360 for multiplatform games then they were ported to ps3.

yep and I don't blame developers for doing it that way. although, once Sony's first party studios were able to take advantage of what the cell processor had to offer, the difference in power between the Ps3 and the 360 really started showing. it's also around that time that sales started picking up for the Ps3.

The largest acquisition wasn't for just for Xbox. Sure they used Xbox branding but all those titles get day 1 PC releases which is their primary focus of the majority of their business. I don't have to count them out. They've deliberately done that themselves. Again, to sell hardware, you have to have true exclusives. The Xbox Brand doesn't have that. They don't even have storefront exclusives anymore. Their games get day 1 steam releases too. They want you playing on Windows.

All of this is true, but I think there will always be an audience for people who want to have video game consoles. It just seems to be a problem with the Xbox brand and (to a lesser extent) playstation, but one day the Switch is going to be the best selling video game console of all time and the Switch 2 is gonna break records. I agree that to sell hardware you have to have true exclusives, but I think a lot of people who bought Xboxes did so because they are loyal to the brand and want to actually continue owning a console.

To clarify, I don't think the gamepass model is enough to sustain first party hardware production. Their focus seems to be being the Netflix of video games not the dominant hardware platform and they've basically done it, but they also understand completely abandoning their Xbox player base is bad for business too.

to the bolded, there was actually a rumor that the leaks from a few weeks back about Xbox games coming to Ps5 & Switch were internally within Microsoft; because their own employees didn't want it to happen and they wanted public outcry to ensure to try to put a stop to it.

Hell, physical Xbox games aren't required to have complete playable builds on the disc (Sony does require this.)

what do you mean by this?

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

yeah, that's an unfortunate truth. the cell processor, as powerful as it was, was very complicated for developers in the seventh generation. the only games that I can think of where Ps3 had the advantage were Tekken 6 & FFS13, and that's probably only because of two things 1. those games were originally planned to be Ps3 exclusive and 2. the Blu-ray disc just holds more information than the DVD

yep and I don't blame developers for doing it that way. although, once Sony's first party studios were able to take advantage of what the cell processor had to offer, the difference in power between the Ps3 and the 360 really started showing. it's also around that time that sales started picking up for the Ps3.

All of this is true, but I think there will always be an audience for people who want to have video game consoles. It just seems to be a problem with the Xbox brand and (to a lesser extent) playstation, but one day the Switch is going to be the best selling video game console of all time and the Switch 2 is gonna break records. I agree that to sell hardware you have to have true exclusives, but I think a lot of people who bought Xboxes did so because they are loyal to the brand and want to actually continue owning a console.

to the bolded, there was actually a rumor that the leaks from a few weeks back about Xbox games coming to Ps5 & Switch were internally within Microsoft; because their own employees didn't want it to happen and they wanted public outcry to ensure to try to put a stop to it.

what do you mean by this?

Physical Xbox games aren't required to have all the data necessary to boot the game on the disc. They assume you have an internet connection to download the rest of the game making the game disc not worth the plastic its printed on. That's why most physical game collectors buy physical releases on Playstation. Sony requires a playable build on the disc.

In the interest of full disclosure: I was a third party contractor for Microsofts hardware support for three unbearable years. I started right after the Xbone launched and worked through that entire disaster. I chose to not renew my contract due to consumer and ethical concerns I had with their hardware.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Physical Xbox games aren't required to have all the data necessary to boot the game on the disc. They assume you have an internet connection to download the rest of the game making the game disc not worth the plastic its printed on. That's why most physical game collectors buy physical releases on Playstation. Sony requires a playable build on the disc.

I feel kinda dumb for not fully understanding this. are you saying that if I buy an Xbox game via disc, then I don't fully own the game as I otherwise would, buying the game physically with either Sony or Nintendo?

In the interest of full disclosure: I was a third party contractor for Microsofts hardware support for three unbearable years. I started right after the Xbone launched and worked through that entire disaster. I chose to not renew my contract due to consumer and ethical concerns I had with their hardware.

whoa, man! you're basically an insider, then! I want to ask you based on some of the things you said previously. do you hate video game consoles?

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

I feel kinda dumb for not fully understanding this. are you saying that if I buy an Xbox game via disc, then I don't fully own the game as I otherwise would, buying the game physically with either Sony or Nintendo?

whoa, man! you're basically an insider, then! I want to ask you based on some of the things you said previously. do you hate video game consoles?

You only get part of the game on the disc and are forced to download the other part. If you set your Xbone up then go into offline mode and install it from the disc, there are no guarantees that the game will boot without its updates. You're essentially buying a physical license for a digital game.

I don't hate game consoles, I'm just not a fan of modern consoles. They've become glorified mid range pcs that have custom OSs comeple with PC problems and a few platform exclusive issues. They've essentially made themselves obsolete in my eyes because if I'm gonna have pc problems on my console, might as well just play on PC and not have my library locked to specific hardware. Being on the other side of things and having to outright lie to customers about internally known issues really soured me on modern consoles.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

You only get part of the game on the disc and are forced to download the other part. If you set your Xbone up then go into offline mode and install it from the disc, there are no guarantees that the game will boot without its updates. You're essentially buying a physical license for a digital game.

what?! so playing games offline on Xbox is just useless then?! also based on what you're saying, what is even the point of buying the disc for an Xbox game in this case? after I install it, do I even need the disc anymore?

I don't hate game consoles, I'm just not a fan of modern consoles. They've become glorified mid range pcs that have custom OSs comeple with PC problems and a few platform exclusive issues. They've essentially made themselves obsolete in my eyes because if I'm gonna have pc problems on my console, might as well just play on PC and not have my library locked to specific hardware.

I get that modern consoles have become more and more like PCs that unique hardware. but back when consoles were more distinguished from PCs, to your bolded point - wasn't the situation the same? for all console generations, your video games would be locked to the specific console you played on.