The #4 movie - which movie series will have it first?

[DrCosmic]

They've said it doesn't ignore X3, and it has most of the original cast back. I think that makes it X4. Some FC characters are in it, but that doesn't make it FC2. That just means they're including prequel characters.

Don't you see how that goes both ways though?

"They've said it doesn't ignore XFC, most of the XFC cast is back. I think that makes it FC2. Some X3 characters are in it, but that doesn't make it X4. That just means they're including original trilogy characters."

And honestly... do you think the next X-Men movie that doesn't feature the FC crew will be called X-Men 5? Really guys, if it was actually X-Men 4, then it would be called "X-Men 4: Days of Future Past."

The issue is that while it has sequel elements of an X4, it also has elements of an XFC2, which technically makes it neither or both, but because it's not one or the other it can't be X4 or FC2... it's a new thing. Just because Han and Chewie travel back to meet Jar Jar doesn't make it Episode VII. Usually we judge sequels by chronological order, or at least in time travel stories, cause and effect... but with DOFP all that gets muddled with, so you can't honestly call it either.

The original cast of the X-Men trilogy is probably going to the past period (where the cast of First Class is set), so Days of Future Past is going to be the 4th chapter of their adventure as the X-Men. So that makes it X-Men 4. They are not showing events that already happened in the past. And its not a spin-off like The Wolverine where there's only 1 character from the original trilogy that is going to appear in the movie in a starring role. This isn't also a cross-over movie like The Avengers because First Class wasn't a separate series.

We can only really confirm that DOFp is X-Men 4 once we saw the movie, but I'm quite confident that DOFP is X-Men 4. Having half of the cast of X3 says it all for me.

And having half the cast for X:FC doesn't say anything to you?

Just so you know (as I know you already know, but I'm being sarcastic) Days of Future Past is an alternate timeline story for the future, so it's most likely that XFC and X3 crews will be going into the future after Xavier or someone like him has been killed.

Do you think, if they make an X-Men movie after this, ostensibly without the FC cast, they'll call it X-Men 5?

 

[blalex620]

^^^ They disregard everything Singer says in favor of believing that the movie is X4: Days of Future Past when he said it's not that

 

[blalex620]

They asked him in an interview "is it possible to come out of this movie with the First Class series, the original X-Men series and an alternate timeline series that was featured in the movie?"
Singer replied "Yeah, it's very possible. And that's not counting all the other characters not yet explored because the X universe is so vast."

That right there tells you that while this is a continuation of both, both FC and the original trilogy can be continued in their own right still. Meaning we can still get an actual X-Men 4 after this movie.

 

[def28]

Numbers in the X-Men series are pretty much done. I doubt any film will be called that. We will probably get titles like Uncanny X-Men, X-Men:Age Of Apocaylpse etc.

Since Dofp is a follow up to X3 with the main cast I think this is the closest we will get to an X4. I don't really see the argument that having the FC cast in the film automatically excludes it from being X4. I think this film could be looked at that way till we learn more. If it was a crossover film consisting of completely different X-Men teams and characters that would be different, but this is just younger versions of themselves and going back in time. It's about the same people.

 

[blalex620]

Numbers in the X-Men series are pretty much done. I doubt any film will be called X4.

Not necessarily true, Laura Donner the producer of the X series said last year that she pitched an X4 and X5 to FOX and they loved it. And with Singer's comment that I quoted above it's very possible to see a continuation of the original trilogy still

 

[def28]

Not necessarily true, Laura Donner the producer of the X series said last year that she pitched an X4 and X5 to FOX and they loved it. And with Singer's comment that I quoted above it's very possible to see a continuation of the original trilogy still

X4 was rumored to be DOFP for awhile. That was two years ago, and now we have DoFP coming out with the original crew.

No way to know for sure till it comes out. This film can erase quite a bit.

 

[psylockolussus]

^^^ They disregard everything Singer says in favor of believing that the movie is X4: Days of Future Past when he said it's not that

Singer already said that this is a sequel to X3 and FC. So DOFP is both X4 and FC2. I'm not disregarding what Singer said. You made it sound like we are making this up.

"I wrote the story for ‘First Class' and produced it so this is a chance to not do a sequel to ‘First Class' or a sequel to ‘X-Men 3' but to do both I guess in a way," Singer told us. "In ‘Days of Future Past' the story structure is a fantastic way to do that."
http://www.superherohype.com/featur...a-nicholas-hoult-on-x-men-days-of-future-past

And having half the cast for X:FC doesn't say anything to you? Just so you know (as I know you already know, but I'm being sarcastic) Days of Future Past is an alternate timeline story for the future, so it's most likely that XFC and X3 crews will be going into the future after Xavier or someone like him has been killed.

Do you think, if they make an X-Men movie after this, ostensibly without the FC cast, they'll call it X-Men 5?

Days of Futue Past is also a sequel to First Class but the question of this thread is which movie series will have the 1st #4 movie. And DOFP is both First Class movie #2 and X-Men (with the original cast) movie #4, so X-Men gets the title for having the 1st #4 movie. It doesn't matter if the title of the movie is X-Men 4. Its a continuation to X-Men 3, its not a spin-off or a prequel, so its X-Men 4.

 

[blalex620]

Singer already that this is a sequel to X3 and FC. So DOFP is both X4 and FC2. I'm not disregarding what Singer said.

I agree it is a continuation of both stories. I however, believe we still can get a X4 and FC2 but until they announce what movie is next we'll never know.

 

[def28]

I agree it is a continuation of both stories. I however, believe we still can get a X4 and FC2 but until they announce what movie is next we'll never know.

Pretty much, this franchise isn't exactly predictable.

 

[psylockolussus]

I agree it is a continuation of both stories. I however, believe we still can get a X4 and FC2 but until they announce what movie is next we'll never know.

If we get another film with the cast of First Class and another film with the cast of the original trilogy after DOFP. And they are both set after the events of DOFP, it won't be called X-Men 4 and X-Men: First Class 2 and it won't be called X-Men 5 and X-Men: First Class 3. Like Def said, the numbering in the title for the X-Men movies are pretty much over.

 

[DrCosmic]

That's a fair guess, I suppose, but it's not really based on anything. There's no reason why they can't come out with an X-Men 4 after DOFP, just like they can come out with an Iron Man 3 after Avengers. You could call Avengers the sequel to Iron Man 2, since it continues the same exact story, just adds in other stories with it, but at the end of the day, because it's not *just* Iron Man's sequel, it's something different, it's a team up movie, and they would naturally follow it up with Iron Man 3, not Iron Man 4, or even Iron Man: Extremis even though The Avengers' story is integral to appreciating that of Iron Man 3.

Notice how those who suggest a different X-Men for can/will exist are basing it on quotes from the filmmakers and other franchises that have done similar things narratively, while those who suggest DOFP is X-Men 4 and numbering days are done are just "I doubt it" and "this forum poster said they're done."

 

[def28]

It's a different situation then the Avengers. These aren't four completely different characters who have never met before. FC was an origin to X1. Thats the same as the Avengers having one team prequel film, not 4 solo films that have a clear plan to crossover as a team after the fact.

The Future roster for Dofp is huge. Wolverine, Rogue, Prof X, Kitty, Storm, Iceman, Colossus, Magneto, Bishop, Warpath and Blink. FC has like 4 returning members. All of which are just playing younger versions of characters in X1-3. Since this is post X3, why couldn't this be X4? Because younger versions of themselves are in it and they have time travel involved? It's all the same, everyone in these films are there cause of X1.

The series has so many options after this film it is impossible to know what they will do. FC could have it's own timeline. The X1-3 timline could be erased, etc. I really don't see the title X4 as an option, cause it will be starting a new one way or another, unless DoFP is a two parter or they jump to AOA. No one will know till they release it. Hopefully they just plan these film's ahead from now on.

 

[Dark Raven]

On the subject of prequels and sequels, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom is a prequel. It's set before Raiders and the Last Crusade. However, it's still considered the #2 film in the series.

And going back further, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly is a prequel, set before both A Fistful of Dollars and For a Few Dollars More, but is also considered the 3rd film in that series.

And looking at a long-standing series like James Bond, Casino Royale, QOS and Skyfall are all prequels (and reboots) to the original 20 films, but Skyfall is still refered to as Bond 23, just as CR was Bond 21 and QOS Bond 22.

 

[DrCosmic]

It's a different situation then the Avengers. These aren't four completely different characters who have never met before. FC was an origin to X1. Thats the same as the Avengers having one team prequel film, not 4 solo films that have a clear plan to crossover as a team after the fact.

The Future roster for Dofp is huge. Wolverine, Rogue, Prof X, Kitty, Storm, Iceman, Colossus, Magneto, Bishop, Warpath and Blink. FC has like 4 returning members. All of which are just playing younger versions of characters in X1-3. Since this is post X3, why couldn't this be X4? Because younger versions of themselves are in it and they have time travel involved? It's all the same, everyone in these films are there cause of X1.

The series has so many options after this film it is impossible to know what they will do. FC could have it's own timeline. The X1-3 timline could be erased, etc. I really don't see the title X4 as an option, cause it will be starting a new one way or another, unless DoFP is a two parter or they jump to AOA. No one will know till they release it. Hopefully they just plan these film's ahead from now on.

Meh. When you make baseless sweeping assumptions like Warpath and Blink come in post X1, that's a given, but when I point out how DOFP fixed the original timeline and then adventures continued on after that in sequential order, well... it's just *impossible to know* because they have the option to fracture the franchise.

Part of your different perspective is that you feel like McAvoy and Stewart are playing the same character, simply because they have the same name and childhood, but after you watch Fight Club a few times, and Looper a few times, you start to realize that just because two people are playing the same *person* does not at all mean they're playing the same character. That's why this movie has a team up effect, much like Avengers. That's also part of why it never came up as an option until after Avengers, because no one thought of capitalizing on that potential til Avengers made a billion.

Speaking of, everything for the MCU started with Captain America, Stark's line, Hulk's inspiration, and The Cosmic Cube's use and Asgard's involvement with Earth. So can we call Avengers "Captain America 2?" No, because it's a team up film. It takes place post Cap post IM 2, but because it's a team up film, it's neither.

 

[def28]

Cap, Hulk, Iron Man and Thor all started as a stand alone series. X-Men didn't, they have a prequel and only 1 character has spinoff's. One that doesnt even want to carry a 2 or any other hint it's a sequel. Without X1 none of them would exist. It's a completely different situation then Avengers which is it's own beast. Prof X and Magneto as of now are in the same timline. Until we have that timeline switch, corrected future or whatever the **** they want to do, it's the same.

Meh. When you make baseless sweeping assumptions like Warpath and Blink come in post X1, that's a given,

Don't think Mcavoy, Lawrence and Fassbender have been on set yet. The Actor playing Warpath has been seen with those who are. Which is the Post X3 crew.Also the video where they announced the names seemed to be characters who would all be featured in scene's close to shooting. Blink's name was there. Could be wrong, but if I was to bet I would bet that the actors on set are more then likely going to be in scenes together.

but when I point out how DOFP fixed the original timeline and then adventures continued on after that in sequential order, well... it's just *impossible to know* because they have the option to fracture the franchise.

It is impossible to know. All of it. Have you seen this series? Now they are dealing with time travel and Alt realities haha. I personally don't think the number 4 will be used in this series or undertsand the point of view that this is somehow completely different then a true X4. There's not enough separating it from the main series imo. But maybe there will be and I'm wrong. We shall see next year.

 

[blalex620]

Like Singer said it's possible that after DoFP we could see a continuation of the First Class movies and the original movies. It's possible that they could make it so that the original trilogy turns out to be set in a direct future of FC instead of an alternate future but after stopping whatever happens in the past the future branches off into it's own thing while fixing the stuff that happened in X3 as a result therefore allowing them to continue both series.

 

[psylockolussus]

I agree with Def!

 

[Spider-Fan]

Don't you see how that goes both ways though?

"They've said it doesn't ignore XFC, most of the XFC cast is back. I think that makes it FC2. Some X3 characters are in it, but that doesn't make it X4. That just means they're including original trilogy characters."

They can call it whatever they want. But, it is easiest to view this like the normal movie goer will: FC was a prequel (not a new franchise) and this is a sequel to X3 since the original cast is back, but characters from the prequel will appear. That is how the average joe will view it, and by the rule of KISS, it is the easiest way to view it. And, not an inaccurate way, either. Future FC films will just be seen as prequels, anyway. Not a new series.

 

[blalex620]

This debate will go on forever until FOX announces the next X movie

 

[psylockolussus]

"They've said it doesn't ignore XFC, most of the XFC cast is back. I think that makes it FC2. Some X3 characters are in it, but that doesn't make it X4. That just means they're including original trilogy characters."

This made me laugh, did you count the cast members from First Class and X3 that are going to appear in X-Men: Days of Future Past

First Class= McAvoy, Fassbender, Lawrence, Hoult (4)
X3= Jackman, Berry, Stewart, Paquin, McKellen, Ashmore, Page, Cudmore (8)

Not even half of the cast of First Class is coming back for DOFP, while half of X3's cast is in the movie.

This debate will go on forever until FOX announces the next X movie

Not really, you just have to watch Days of Future Past to figure if its a X-Men 4 movie or not.

 

[Mr. Dent]

Not counting DOFP, Iron Man 4.

 

[DrCosmic]

Wow... you guys make some really good points. I was wrong saying your conclusion was baseless def, but your assumption that 'returning cast size makes it a sequel' doesn't work, or else, again, Avengers - with quintuple the returning cast compared with the rest of the related films that would not have been there without IM1. Same with shooting schedules, if they shoot the dark future first (which they should, to avoid Halle's baby bump), then yeah, the people from the timeline that needs to be changed would be on set ASAP.

Singer looks at the team up aspect like the MCU films:

“I think there’s a strong desire to broaden out the universe. I mean, the X-Men universe is every bit on its own as big as the Marvel universe and I think it’s time to reach out and explore it and perhaps even bring some connectivity between the films,as Marvel’s done so well. You may see some of that, I don’t know (laughs).”

The majority of the film is set before X1. This makes perfect sense because DOFP began as a sequel to X:FC, and there's no sign that that's changed.

The majority of it…or that part of it, takes place in the early 70’s, 1973. So Nixon is a character, and there will be different styles and automobiles. And there will be some futuristic, as well as retro, technology which you haven’t seen. There are science fiction aspects of the movie, and then there’s some retro science fiction that the X-Men films haven’t had quite yet. So we’re exploring that, which will be fun. And there’s an attitude [difference]. We discover our characters, particularly the younger characters, at a different place in their lives. Every character you discover in this movie is in a completely different place than you’ve ever seen, emotionally, and it’s about them moving through that. Hilarity ensues!

So not only are they sticking with the DOFP storyline, where people go from the future to the past, to fix things but even the future characters will be victims of a time lapse and be in new unexpected places. Perhaps it will be in a way that's okay and happy instead of a way that fits with the DOFP storyline and actually acts as a catalyst for the film.

So... how much of what I quoted is impossible to know, because I haven't seen the series?

They can call it whatever they want. But, it is easiest to view this like the normal movie goer will: FC was a prequel (not a new franchise) and this is a sequel to X3 since the original cast is back, but characters from the prequel will appear. That is how the average joe will view it, and by the rule of KISS, it is the easiest way to view it. And, not an inaccurate way, either. Future FC films will just be seen as prequels, anyway. Not a new series.

Generally, people see sequels to prequels as both. If Han and Chewie go back in time to the clone wars... no one's like... "yeah, it's Episode VII!" Especially if their goal in time travel is to prevent the bad version of Episode VII they're living in from happening, especially if most of it occurs in the past. The simplest way to see that film is as a sequel to the prequel, making it a prequel series. Incidnetally, DOFP has always been a sequel to FC, even before people started counting returning cast and drawing conclusions about screen time from that. But we shouldn't preclude the audience's ability to KISS and still see something that continues the story as not a sequel, like Avengers. Even if you disagree that DOFP is like Avengers, don't pretend the audience concludes every story continuation is a sequel.

Anyway, to finish up.

"This movie's gonna be not only quite epic, 'Days of Future Past,' but it also takes place in completely different times than the 'X Men' movies have taken place," Singer told me. "There'll be new technology, new things we haven't seen before in 'X-Men' films. Certain characters and certain story and certain drama that hasn't be done yet, so it's not so much sequel. It's more of its own kinda thing."

Perhaps its not possible to know whether the DOFP movie will actually be based on the basic premise of the DOFP storyline (ie, something bad in the future happens, someone goes back in time to prevent it from happening, and succeeds)... but we know it's not a sequel. We know it's set mostly in the time where the X:FC sequel has always been set. We know it was developed, at least initially, as the X:FC sequel. We know it's not called X-Men 4.

It's not X-Men 4. It's not the "#4 movie," it's just the sixth/seventh movie in the franchise, like Avengers.

Is it possible that this precludes a #4 movie from happening? That we'll have to wait and see.

 

[blalex620]

^^^ Thank you Cosmic for expressing this in a way I couldn't and with Singer's quotes to back it up. People seem to have forgotten that before the title was officially Days of Future Past it was X-Men: First Class 2. I had been looking for when he said it's not so much of a sequel as it is it's own thing, just couldn't remember which interview it was. But of course no matter what Singer says people are still going to call it X4 because that's what they want it to be.

 

[def28]

The film lost it's original Director and Singer did rewrites. It has changed since Vaughn left, no doubt about it. There was also studio talk about Days Of Future Past before FC.

Wow... you guys make some really good points. I was wrong saying your conclusion was baseless def, but your assumption that 'returning cast size makes it a sequel' doesn't work, or else, again, Avengers - with quintuple the returning cast compared with the rest of the related films that would not have been there without IM1. Same with shooting schedules, if they shoot the dark future first (which they should, to avoid Halle's baby bump), then yeah, the people from the timeline that needs to be changed would be on set ASAP.

I just don't see it that way at all. Avengers is literally it's own series apart from the other stand alone Marvel franchises. Dofp is not, and the X-Men won't be coming back every three years to star in a DoFP film. It's part of the same X-men film line and that's all that has ever been there. Doesn't matter if the decade or cast is different. I get what your trying to say I just disagree. I think they are def trying to pull something similar in terms of the size of Avengers here, and that Fox is aching to cash in. It's just not the same situation in terms of how these films are set up or crossed over at all. X-Men post X3 are just going back in time. Thats not 4 films coming togther to star in an all new title. There are no crossing over of different characters from multiple stand alone series and no new series title or anything like that. I hope they go that route later post DofP, but for now none of that exists.

But yeah, think I'm going in circles now so agree to disagree haha.

 

[blalex620]

My thing is if Singer says:

Originally Posted by http://www.hitfix.com/the-fien-prin...-future-past-expectations#3qsKDYsIz7CSy3V5.99 "This movie's gonna be not only quite epic, 'Days of Future Past,' but it also takes place in completely different times than the 'X Men' movies have taken place," Singer told me. "There'll be new technology, new things we haven't seen before in 'X-Men' films. Certain characters and certain story and certain drama that hasn't be done yet, so it's not so much sequel. It's more of its own kinda thing."

Then how can people still call it X4?