Homecoming The Chronology of The MCU [Based On Spider-Man Homecoming]

[R_Hythlodeus]

Iron Man 3 isn't even that much of a problem if one assumes that Tony's symptoms didn't start until much later the battle of NY.

but that date is set: 13 years after the conference. And 13 years after 99/00 puts it at 12/13. It can't happen earlier or later, there's no wiggle room

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

I already tried explaining to him man, don't bother.

I doesn't even matter, since Homecoming in his eyes clarly is a deliberate retcon tailored to suit exactly his desires. putting CW in 2016 by evidence doesn't change that, because Homecoming retconned anything ayway, just because Neil and Feige agree that Neil should no longer be forced at gunpoint to look at his IM3 BluRay

 

[Silvermoon]

I already tried explaining to him man, don't bother.

I doesn't even matter, since Homecoming in his eyes clarly is a deliberate retcon tailored to suit exactly his desires. putting CW in 2016 by evidence doesn't change that, because Homecoming retconned anything ayway, just because Neil and Feige agree that Neil should no longer be forced at gunpoint to look at his IM3 BluRay

So I'm not the only one that's going

at the way that NealKenneth is trying to spin this? Good to know

 

[AvengerPA]

Okay, let's take a look at the evidence we have:

December 31st 1999/January 1st 2000 - fixed date, Tony at the conference in Bern, meets Yinsen, Killian et al. (IM3)
February 14th 2008 - fixed date, Killian find candidates for the Extremis program (date shown in IM3)
2010 - IM (6 months before IM2 as stated by Senator Stern in IM2)
2011 - Fury's big week (Fury mentions in TA that the events of Thor happend 'last year')
2012 - the Battle of New York/ the Incident (year given in AoS S2E06 A Fractured House)
December 2012 - IM3
September 9th 2013 - set date, Grant Ward is promoted to Level 7 and gets a new ID batch with it's date clearly visible in AoS S1Eo1 Pilot
November 2013 - Thor The Dark World (Darcy states that Thor was gone for over 2 years since the events of the first Thor, set in 2011, A calender can be seen in the movie saying November)
First Half of 2014 - Winter Soldier (Falcon states they're looking for the Winter Soldier for two years in Civil War, given that Rogers says he's 95 in TWS it has to happen before July 4th)
2014 - GotG, Got2 v2 ('34 years later' than the '1980' opening scene of the first movie)
January 6th 2015 - This google+ post

May(?) 2015 - AoU (in CW it is mentioned by Tony that 'Spencer decided to spend his summer in Sokovia' which is when the battle of Sokovia happend. Zemo says he spent over a year planning his revenge. So early summer, really, May probably
July 17th 2015, set date, Scott Lang is released from prison (WHiH)
December 2015, Peter Parker was bitten by a spider (He had this power for 'six months' in CW)
May 3rd, 2016 - set date, WHiH coverage of Lagos Incident
June 2016 - Vienna International Center bombing, stated as 'one month after Lagos' (or Lagos was stated as 'last month' something along that line)
August or September 2016 - Start of Homecoming, judging by the 'two months later'. Assuming CW happend late in June, September is more likely, given that August is an akward time to go to High School (as is June for having homework, frankly, but I have no idea when summer holidays in the US usually end)



that's the bits that are working, now for the onscreen bits that didn't work:

2020 - the events of Homecoming (8 years after the Battle of New York)




edit: rereading this, I noticed I forgot Visions line in CW about the '8 years since Tony Stark announced himself as Iron Man' which, going by all other evidence surprisingly doesn't work neither with earlier given dates. So either IM is set in 2008 instead of 2010 which doesn't work with the dates given in TA and IM2 or CW is set in 2018, which means, since Cap is still 95 in TWS, Falcon and Cap started looking for Bucky in 2016, two years after the events of TWS and after AoU. This would also mean that the date of the WHiH footage for CW is wrong by 2 years.
It still doesn't make any sense in relation to the 2020 date of Homecoming, though. There's still a gap


2016 seems to be the year Dr. Strange started his training under the Ancient One, I can't remember any exact dates given in canon. IF Strange started experimenting with the Eye of Agamoto around May/June 2016 however, there might be an in universe reason for both Vision's 'eight years' and Toomes' 'eight years', as in Strange broke time completely in early summer 2016

Peter Quill was kidnapped in 1988 when he was 10 years old, not in 1980.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Peter Quill was kidnapped in 1988 when he was 10 years old, not in 1980.

Yeah, I just rewatched thhe start of GotG, because that bothered me too. I was going off memory there, knowing it was set in 2014. but it says '26 years later' putting it still in 2014, so everything is fine.

were '1980 - 34 years later' the dates from Vol. 2? I have no copy of that movie around

 

[Silvermoon]

Yeah, I just rewatched thhe start of GotG, because that bothered me too. I was going off memory there, knowing it was set in 2014. but it says '26 years later' putting it still in 2014, so everything is fine.

were '1980 - 34 years later' the dates from Vol. 2? I have no copy of that movie around

I think so. I at least seem to recall the 1980 showing on screen when it shows Meredith and Ego (so Peter was 8 when he was abducted... not 10) - don't recall if they did a "34 years later" (but they might have)

 

[AlluAllu]

but that date is set: 13 years after the conference. And 13 years after 99/00 puts it at 12/13. It can't happen earlier or later, there's no wiggle room

I agree. What I meant was that Iron Man 3 isn't necessarily holding Avengers to 2012.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

I agree. What I meant was that Iron Man 3 isn't necessarily holding Avengers to 2012.

but Agents of SHIELD is

 

[TheVileOne]

Once again, there is no repairing Homecoming saying Avengers happened eight years before.

 

[AlluAllu]

but Agents of SHIELD is

Yes. Choosing "Homecoming fix" would decanonize Agents of SHIELD. I suspect sooner or later one of the films will contradict tv-shows anyway.

I'm warming up to the headcanon that Doctor Strange broke time.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Once again, there is no repairing Homecoming saying Avengers happened eight years before.

the sad thing is, when I can come up with a working timeline based on only on screen dialogue, on screen dates and the occasional WHiH stuff in about an hour of research, how easy and fast it should be for those people at MS to simply double check the dates with established continuity?

 

[metaphysician]

Honestly, this still bothers me *vastly* less than setting the start of Dr Strange post-Winter Soldier.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

Interesting side note: the main events of Homecoming are indicated as taking place eight years after the Battle of New York, which may lead you to assume that the citizens of the MCU are living in the distant future of 2020 even as we’re still languishing in 2017. Not so, says Marvel Studios head, Kevin Feige. “Very rarely do we ever put specific dates on our movies,” he tells Yahoo Movies. “Nowhere in The Avengers will you see it say, ‘2012.’ It more or less corresponds to the not-too-distant future. We try to keep it slightly vague as to the specific date of any single event.”

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/explaining-spider-man-homecoming-easter-eggs-212204779.html

 

[TheJediBrah]

I agree. What I meant was that Iron Man 3 isn't necessarily holding Avengers to 2012.

It really, really does though. Iron Man 3 is clearly supposed to be set no more than a few months after Avengers. Trying to fit the MCU timeline into the "8 years later" mistake in this film is pointless, it's simply not going to work.

Go and watch Avegers and Iron Man 3 and try to tell me that it makes any sense for 4+ years to have passed between. You can't, because it doesn't. The MCU films were always supposed to happen in real time AFAIK, Cap was thawed in 2011, Battle of NY was mid-2012, this is all pre-established canon.

Now don't get me wrong, you can twist and squeeze in any way to make things fit a retconned timeline, but there is always going to be something in the MCU films that is wrong, time-line wise.

Either this "8 years later" is a mistake and is wrong, or a dozen other things are mistakes and are wrong. Personally I'd rather we just accept this was a mistake and the Spiderman clearly isn't set 8 years after Avengers than do what Marvel seem to be trying to do and make a whole bunch of terrible sloppy retcons all just to try to make "8 years later" fit.

 

[TheVileOne]

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/explaining-spider-man-homecoming-easter-eggs-212204779.html

Honestly, it sounds like tapdancing by Kevin Feige.

 

[Silvermoon]

It really, really does though. Iron Man 3 is clearly supposed to be set no more than a few months after Avengers. Trying to fit the MCU timeline into the "8 years later" mistake in this film is pointless, it's simply not going to work.

Go and watch Avegers and Iron Man 3 and try to tell me that it makes any sense for 4+ years to have passed between. You can't, because it doesn't. The MCU films were always supposed to happen in real time AFAIK, Cap was thawed in 2011, Battle of NY was mid-2012, this is all pre-established canon.

Now don't get me wrong, you can twist and squeeze in any way to make things fit a retconned timeline, but there is always going to be something in the MCU films that is wrong, time-line wise.

Either this "8 years later" is a mistake and is wrong, or a dozen other things are mistakes and are wrong. Personally I'd rather we just accept this was a mistake and the Spiderman clearly isn't set 8 years after Avengers than do what Marvel seem to be trying to do and make a whole bunch of terrible sloppy retcons all just to try to make "8 years later" fit.

Agreed, specially with the bolded

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/explaining-spider-man-homecoming-easter-eggs-212204779.html

The problem is, Feige, those few times that you DO Have dates specifically stated (IM3, or even every time Cap (or someone else) makes reference to how long ago he went into the ice (because he went into the ice at a very specific time which then dates - if even roughly - when the comment is made), both GotG movies have a year attached to them due to (like IM3) using basic math). Fans notice, fans pay attention and keep track because we like to create our timelines, and will call you out when inconsistencies pop up.

Honestly, it sounds like tapdancing by Kevin Feige.

Agreed

 

[ToilesHeroiques]

2008 : Iron Man
2009 : Iron Man 2 / The Incredible Hulk / Thor
2010 : Captain America - The First Avenger / The Avengers
2011 :
2012 : Iron Man 3
2013 : Thor - The Dark World / Captain America - The Winter Soldier (december)
2014 : Guardians of the Galaxy / Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2
2015 : Avengers - Age of Ultron / Ant-Man
2016 : Doctor Strange
2016-2017 (Freshman) : Captain America - Civil War (june 2017)
2017-2018 (Sophomore) : Spider-Man - Homecoming (september 2017)
2018-2019 (Junior) : Avengers - Infinity War / Avengers 4 / Spider-Man 2
2019-2020 (Senior) : Spider-Man 3

IM/IM2 (6 months) ; IM2/TIH/T (same week) ; T/TA (last year) ; TWS (Steve Rogers is 95) ; TWS/CW (almost 4 years without supervision) ; TA/SMH (almost 8 years) ; A4/SM2 (few minutes)

 

[Silvermoon]

2008 : Iron Man
2009 : Iron Man 2 / The Incredible Hulk / Thor
2010 : Captain America - The First Avenger / The Avengers
2011 :
2012 : Iron Man 3
2013 : Thor - The Dark World / Captain America - The Winter Soldier (december)
2014 : Guardians of the Galaxy / Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2
2015 : Avengers - Age of Ultron / Ant-Man
2016 : Doctor Strange
2016-2017 (Freshman) : Captain America - Civil War (june 2017)
2017-2018 (Sophomore) : Spider-Man - Homecoming (september 2017)
2018-2019 (Junior) : Avengers - Infinity War / Avengers 4 / Spider-Man 2
2019-2020 (Senior) : Spider-Man 3

IM/IM2 (6 months) ; IM2/TIH/T (same week) ; T/TA (last year) ; TWS (Steve Rogers is 95) ; TWS/CW (almost 4 years without supervision) ; TA/SMH (almost 8 years) ; A4/SM2 (few minutes)

Sorry, I don't agree with that (especially the bolded). To me, if you increase the time between Avengers and IM3 you lose some of the characterization for Tony in just how paranoid and how mentally broken he's become after his near death experience in Avengers. 35 suits in a 6 month time frame (meaning less than a week spent on each suit) says a lot more about his mental state than if he has a year and a half (or whatever) to create 35 new suits - it doesn't have the same effectiveness. Not to mention, while naturally everyone is different... but from what I understand, it's more common for PTSD to appear within the first few months after the traumatic event...those where it manifests years later isn't as common.

I also don't see The Winter Soldier happening in December (this is the northeast we're talking about, if it were December... it would look like December in Washington D.C. At the very least, all the trees in the movie would not still have vibrant green leaves on them).

I agree with others that have said that when Ross is referring to "4 years without supervision" (given that he included the Battle of New York in his little video montage) - he was counting from the time that they first formed as a team.... in Avengers (because I could easily see him assuming that since SHIELD ended up being infested with HYDRA, the Avengers never really had true supervision from the beginning)

Just my opinion

 

[AlluAllu]

It really, really does though. Iron Man 3 is clearly supposed to be set no more than a few months after Avengers. Trying to fit the MCU timeline into the "8 years later" mistake in this film is pointless, it's simply not going to work.

Go and watch Avegers and Iron Man 3 and try to tell me that it makes any sense for 4+ years to have passed between. You can't, because it doesn't. The MCU films were always supposed to happen in real time AFAIK, Cap was thawed in 2011, Battle of NY was mid-2012, this is all pre-established canon.

Now don't get me wrong, you can twist and squeeze in any way to make things fit a retconned timeline, but there is always going to be something in the MCU films that is wrong, time-line wise.

Either this "8 years later" is a mistake and is wrong, or a dozen other things are mistakes and are wrong. Personally I'd rather we just accept this was a mistake and the Spiderman clearly isn't set 8 years after Avengers than do what Marvel seem to be trying to do and make a whole bunch of terrible sloppy retcons all just to try to make "8 years later" fit.

Maybe more like 2+ years. And yeah, the movie works better as it was originally intended. But I just can't understand how a continuity error that requires extra effort (claiming it happened more years ago than in real life) could happen in big production like this. That makes me think that this was totally intentional regardless of the numerous inconsistencies it causes. I should just accept those inconsistencies, but I'm that sort of fan who likes to make fixes in headcanon. And I think it's amazing how well "Homecoming fix" can be made to fit spoken dialoque.

 

[ToilesHeroiques]

I also don't see The Winter Soldier happening in December (this is the northeast we're talking about, if it were December... it would look like December in Washington D.C. At the very least, all the trees in the movie would not still have vibrant green leaves on them).

We can see 2013.10.12. So october or december (december is a better placement for AoS).

Sorry, I don't agree with that (especially the bolded). To me, if you increase the time between Avengers and IM3 you lose some of the characterization for Tony in just how paranoid and how mentally broken he's become after his near death experience in Avengers. 35 suits in a 6 month time frame (meaning less than a week spent on each suit) says a lot more about his mental state than if he has a year and a half (or whatever) to create 35 new suits - it doesn't have the same effectiveness. Not to mention, while naturally everyone is different... but from what I understand, it's more common for PTSD to appear within the first few months after the traumatic event...those where it manifests years later isn't as common.

I totally agree.

But... 1999/2000 + 13 years = 2012/2013 ; "Six months since New York" isn't in the movie + if we move IM3, this breaks the timeline for AoS.

 

[Venom 1988]

We can see 2013.10.12. So october or december (december is a better placement for AoS).

Wow I never noticed that before

 

[Silvermoon]

We can see 2013.10.12. So october or december (december is a better placement for AoS).

This goes with my previous 'props are not always right'. The chances that artists in charge of creating the overlays were given the exact details of the day/month that Batroc was going to be interrogated? Eh...I don't know that it's incredibly likely. Things like that I can see being a case of them working on the overlay (having a general idea of what the PTB's would like it to look like) realizing that videos like that usually have some type of date stamp and just throwing on the date that they completed their work on the overlay.

Fall/Winter in D.C. does not have as much green on the trees as the film does... if they had intended on it taking place in Fall/Winter, the season would look appropriate to a northeast fall/winter - there would be trees that have (at least started - if not already gone completely) to turn the vibrant reds and yellows that trees back east get in Fall. It looks much more like spring/summer in the film. And out of the two (since it's much more noticeable), I'm more inclined to go with what the season looks like over a 'pause and zoom in' "prop" (or the digital version of a prop))

I totally agree.

But... 1999/2000 + 13 years = 2012/2013 ; "Six months since New York" isn't in the movie + if we move IM3, this breaks the timeline for AoS.

You're right that 6 months since New York is not in the movie proper, but it was stated by PTBs that it was meant to be 6 months in between and the 6 months really does make more sense for Tony's mental state than it being a year or more.

Also, not that I'm inclined to move IM3 (I've already made clear that I prefer keeping the dates for IM3), *if* it were to be moved how would doing so break AoS? Already IM3 takes place before the first season of AoS starts (season 1 starts fall 2013).. the only important thing IM3 has in regards to AoS (that I can think of off the top of my head) is that Extremis has to exist before AoS starts up (as it's part of the concotion being used to try and recreate supersoldiers). Unless you're suggesting moving IM3 LATER than December 2012?


And again, just my opinion

 

[TheJediBrah]

Maybe more like 2+ years. And yeah, the movie works better as it was originally intended. But I just can't understand how a continuity error that requires extra effort (claiming it happened more years ago than in real life) could happen in big production like this. That makes me think that this was totally intentional regardless of the numerous inconsistencies it causes. I should just accept those inconsistencies, but I'm that sort of fan who likes to make fixes in headcanon. And I think it's amazing how well "Homecoming fix" can be made to fit spoken dialoque.

Yeah but it clearly must be an error right? Because why would they deliberately change the timeline by like 3 years?

I just can't see any reason to or what they would gain by doing it so it must just be simply a genuine blunder, which like you said begs the question: how? In a movie this big with this much oversight how does that slip through?

 

[spider-neil]

They dug themselves into a whole with the 'Eight years later'. Why didn't they just say 6 years later?

I'll tell you why. Because the little kid in Iron Man 2 (2010) that IM saves from the Hammer Drones is supposed to be Peter Parker (according to the producers).
THEREFORE, in 2010 Peter would have been 8. No way is that kid 8 years old, he's more like 5 or 6.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

No way is that kid 8 years old, he's more like 5 or 6.

That kid is Max Favreau, though. The son of Jon, who was born 2001 and would have been 8 at the time that scene was shot