Venom The "How Will Venom Relate to Spidey without the MCU?" thread!

[SM71]

It shouldn't have to and I for one don't want it to. MCU would ruin Venom and make just another Whiplash or Malekith out of him.

I'd rather Spidey go back to Sony. They actually did better with him than the MCU did.

Agreed. While I enjoyed Homecoming, I loved SM 1 & 2, and really liked both Amazing films.

And as for Venom being in the MCU, I'm sorry but they just do not know how to do villains. Period. I like their movies, but they've struck out on every single villain they've ever used. Not sure why people think they'd magically do Venom justice.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

perhaps Disney is waiting to see how well the film will do commercially, and then will decide whether to include it fully in the MCU canon.

 

[SM71]

perhaps Disney is waiting to see how well the film will do commercially, and then will decide whether to include it fully in the MCU canon.

This would be my guess

 

[craigaat]

Agreed. While I enjoyed Homecoming, I loved SM 1 & 2, and really liked both Amazing films.

And as for Venom being in the MCU, I'm sorry but they just do not know how to do villains. Period. I like their movies, but they've struck out on every single villain they've ever used. Not sure why people think they'd magically do Venom justice.

I thought Doc Ock was one of the best Marvel villains to date.

 

[SM71]

I thought Doc Ock was one of the best Marvel villains to date.

He definitely was. I'd rank him as one of the best CBM villains ever

I'd put Dafoe's GG above almost every Marvel villain too. Even Lizard would still be towards the top in that mix for me

 

[Infinity9999x]

I thought Doc Ock was one of the best Marvel villains to date.

Doc Ock isn't an MCU villain, since he was done by Sony. And even then, I would prefer a closer to the comics interpretation.

As for the MCU, Vulture was great, and Loki has always been solid. Hela was enjoyable, and Ego was decent. So overall I think they're getting better with their villains.

 

[metaphysician]

Doc Ock was very very solid, but. . . I basically am not a huge fan of "Randomly driven insane by phlebotinum" as a villain motive. Not only because its an empty motivation, but it also feeds into a tendency to make the hero overly "special". 'Why am I a hero? Apparently because I lucked out and didn't get driven randomly insane by my origin story.'

 

[JOE]

perhaps Disney is waiting to see how well the film will do commercially, and then will decide whether to include it fully in the MCU canon.

I don't think they have that luxury. If they want it in the MCU, they want it to be known it's in the MCU. Mentions, easter eggs, even a quick cameo perhaps.

If they baby this movie like they baby'd Homecoming, it will be fine. Venom deserves to be in the MCU.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Doc Ock was very very solid, but. . . I basically am not a huge fan of "Randomly driven insane by phlebotinum" as a villain motive. Not only because its an empty motivation, but it also feeds into a tendency to make the hero overly "special". 'Why am I a hero? Apparently because I lucked out and didn't get driven randomly insane by my origin story.'

My issue with that is that it’s also not part of who Ock is. Ock is the true anti-Peter. A man who loved science, was bullied as a child, had an accident that gave him incredible power, but instead of using it to help others, decided to use it to dominate others.

There were reports Lizard was going to be in SM2 with Ock, and you can tell, because SM2 Ock is essentially a mashup of Curt Connors and Otto Octavius.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I don't think they have that luxury. If they want it in the MCU, they want it to be known it's in the MCU. Mentions, easter eggs, even a quick cameo perhaps.

If they baby this movie like they baby'd Homecoming, it will be fine. Venom deserves to be in the MCU.

If they add Peter Parker to the movie, it's a stepping stone. What do you mean by luxury and who is they? Sony or Disney?

 

[JOE]

If they add Peter Parker to the movie, it's a stepping stone. What do you mean by luxury and who is they? Sony or Disney?

I’m talking about Marvel. They don’t have the luxury of waiting to see how the movie does before deciding if they want it incorporated in their MCU. It’s either in, or its out from the get go. I personally think it’s in.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I’m talking about Marvel. They don’t have the luxury of waiting to see how the movie does before deciding if they want it incorporated in their MCU. It’s either in, or its out from the get go. I personally think it’s in.

huh? Marvel is Disney. Sony needs them more than they need Sony. The way I see it they have all the time in the world to wait since it'll only affect them to the extent of having the symbiote storyline in Av4. It would just take place before the venom movie.

 

[JOE]

huh? Marvel is Disney. Sony needs them more than they need Sony. The way I see it they have all the time in the world to wait since it'll only affect them to the extent of having the symbiote storyline in Av4. It would just take place before the venom movie.

I know Marvel is Disney lol...

I'm saying that they're not going to decide after the movie if they want it cannon in their universe or not. If he's in, there's going to be references and hints in the movie and possibly a cameo. They can't do that and then say "just kidding, Venom isn't part of the MCU."

If they want him in the MCU, they'll make it very obvious like they did in Homecoming. Rumors of Holland in the movie are a direct indication that the movie takes place in the MCU. That's up to Disney/Marvel to decide, it's their universe that they've created. Once something is in, it's in.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I know Marvel is Disney lol...

I'm saying that they're not going to decide after the movie if they want it cannon in their universe or not. If he's in, there's going to be references and hints in the movie and possibly a cameo. They can't do that and then say "just kidding, Venom isn't part of the MCU."

If they want him in the MCU, they'll make it very obvious like they did in Homecoming. Rumors of Holland in the movie are a direct indication that the movie takes place in the MCU. That's up to Disney/Marvel to decide, it's their universe that they've created. Once something is in, it's in.

I think they can. Right now it seems like the connection Venom will share to the MCU is similar to the connection Netflix has with it. There may or may not be a Peter cameo and that's it. So if the film does well enough to turn Disney's shoulder, then going forward all Venom related film stuff will be more directly tied the MCU, like any other MCU film. That's what I think can happen.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think they can. Right now it seems like the connection Venom will share to the MCU is similar to the connection Netflix has with it. There may or may not be a Peter cameo and that's it. So if the film does well enough to turn Disney's shoulder, then going forward all Venom related film stuff will be more directly tied the MCU, like any other MCU film. That's what I think can happen.

This is where I see the project, also. The Sonyverse won't effect the main MCU. Only Spider-Man will jump between the two (unless Scorpion appears in Silver & Black like reports say are possible). If Venom turns out well, then I can maybe see them considering it cannon. Plus, Sony and Marvel will have to renegotiate this deal after the next Homecoming film. I think Sony will use it as a bargaining chip.

 

[JOE]

This is where I see the project, also. The Sonyverse won't effect the main MCU. Only Spider-Man will jump between the two (unless Scorpion appears in Silver & Black like reports say are possible). If Venom turns out well, then I can maybe see them considering it cannon. Plus, Sony and Marvel will have to renegotiate this deal after the next Homecoming film. I think Sony will use it as a bargaining chip.

I don't see how this is possible. They've made Tom Holland's Spider-Man cannon in the MCU. He's an MCU character. Anyone he interacts with is in the MCU, period. There's no grey area. People are going to associate him with the MCU after Homecoming and Civil War. If he shows up in a Venom movie, people are going to think Venom is in the same universe as the Avengers. (From a generic moviegoers perspective.)

Marvel will not make that mistake, he's in or he's out. And if he's in, they're going to have a big impact on what he does.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I don't see how this is possible. They've made Tom Holland's Spider-Man cannon in the MCU. He's an MCU character. Anyone he interacts with is in the MCU, period. There's no grey area. People are going to associate him with the MCU after Homecoming and Civil War. If he shows up in a Venom movie, people are going to think Venom is in the same universe as the Avengers. (From a generic moviegoers perspective.)

Marvel will not make that mistake, he's in or he's out. And if he's in, they're going to have a big impact on what he does.

We are in a grey area, though. Technically, Spider-Man is loaned to Marvel, so Holland is technically an employee of Sony. The question becomes, how much say does Marvel have over his use? We don't know those particulars.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

This is where I see the project, also. The Sonyverse won't effect the main MCU. Only Spider-Man will jump between the two (unless Scorpion appears in Silver & Black like reports say are possible). If Venom turns out well, then I can maybe see them considering it cannon. Plus, Sony and Marvel will have to renegotiate this deal after the next Homecoming film. I think Sony will use it as a bargaining chip.

oh man, I forgot about the whole renegotiating that has to happen after spiderman 2. I wish it was a one and done. I thought the Ps4 game was indicative of that

 

[Spider-Fan]

oh man, I forgot about the whole renegotiating that has to happen after spiderman 2. I wish it was a one and done. I thought the Ps4 game was indicative of that

I think we all wish Marvel just had Spider-Man and we didn't have to worry about that, but hopefully they come to an accord.

 

[JOE]

We are in a grey area, though. Technically, Spider-Man is loaned to Marvel, so Holland is technically an employee of Sony. The question becomes, how much say does Marvel have over his use? We don't know those particulars.

Do you really think Disney would let SONY have the flexibility to make spin-off films and incorporate the Spider-Man they created? You think they would let SONY cause confusion for their MCU? They're too smart for that, they've thought this through. They know Spider-Man has the potential for an entire universe on his own with all the other "Spider-Men" and their villain rogues.

SONY may own the rights to Spider-Man, but the MCU brought him back on the map and SONY is well aware of that. They're not going to bite the hand that feeds them. I have a feeling Disney is involved with this Venom movie if the rumours are true and it involves Holland.

They're not going to let their MCU character off into another movie without having their say in the creative decisions.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Do you really think Disney would let SONY have the flexibility to make spin-off films and incorporate the Spider-Man they created? You think they would let SONY cause confusion for their MCU? They're too smart for that, they've thought this through. They know Spider-Man has the potential for an entire universe on his own with all the other "Spider-Men" and their villain rogues.

SONY may own the rights to Spider-Man, but the MCU brought him back on the map and SONY is well aware of that. They're not going to bite the hand that feeds them. I have a feeling Disney is involved with this Venom movie if the rumours are true and it involves Holland.

They're not going to let their MCU character off into another movie without having their say in the creative decisions.

Eh, Sony at the same time wants a successful brand. You don't think when Marvel says "Hey, we wanna make a 3rd Holland film" that Sony won't say "Good, cause we desperately want a real viable franchise outside Spider-Man, let's help each other out"? I totally think they would.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Do you really think Disney would let SONY have the flexibility to make spin-off films and incorporate the Spider-Man they created? You think they would let SONY cause confusion for their MCU? They're too smart for that, they've thought this through. They know Spider-Man has the potential for an entire universe on his own with all the other "Spider-Men" and their villain rogues.

Well, Sony still has the right to do so, that's why this Venom movie is being created.

SONY may own the rights to Spider-Man, but the MCU brought him back on the map and SONY is well aware of that. They're not going to bite the hand that feeds them. I have a feeling Disney is involved with this Venom movie if the rumours are true and it involves Holland.

They're not going to let their MCU character off into another movie without having their say in the creative decisions.

If Disney was involved with this Venom movie, then that would be public knowledge like their involvement with Spiderman Homecoming.

 

[ironwez20]

Yea but if they don’t want it to fail the right choice would be this being set in the mcu

 

[Spider-Fan]

Yea but if they don’t want it to fail the right choice would be this being set in the mcu

Which is why I think Sony wants this to remain in limbo until they work something out with Marvel to get them to say yeah, totally same continuity!

 

[TheVileOne]

Which is why I think Sony wants this to remain in limbo until they work something out with Marvel to get them to say yeah, totally same continuity!

Well they aren't staying in limbo. They are making a Venom movie that's coming out this year.