The "How would you define a Bat-Character for film?" Thread

[godisawesome]

This is one of the things I love seeing other posters doing and enjoy myself on these various Casting threads, only to have that discussion re-railed by the threads actual purpose, dagnabit!

So, my challenge to you guys is to give me your idea for how any of the Batman supporting cast should be redefined or translated to the big screen, limiting ourselves to those characters who haven't already appeared or are just about to in Suicde Squad. Feel free to challenge other posters to translate characters underneath you.

So, here's my first: Nightwing

Cast someone in their 20's. Focus his fight choreography on flexibility, acrobatics, and combat styles like Capoiera and Muay Thai in conjunction with his escrima. Pure, sincere charm and gregariousness should define the character, along with well earned confidence that borders on pure showmanship at times. He should be a contrast in style and attitude with Batman, but in a manner that is clearly just as disciplined and even complimentary.

I'd establish that he first did fieldwork with Bats at about 15, but Bruce kept him out of combat for a while. The biggest core characteristic of his and Bruce's relationship should be that when they started out, they had a far more clear moral compass and standards; people may have been man-slaughtered, but very, very rarely, and Dick still practices this cleaner code. In fact, that's the cause of his and Bruce's estrangement: when Bruce got more lethal and ruthless, likely because Jason died in action, Dick confronted him, words were exchanged, they had a breakdown in cooperation in combat, and Dick left frustrated.

Modern Nightwing is a prolific vigilante. So prolific, in fact, that he may qualify as a a better one than Batman. Nightwing doesn't limit himself to any single city but focuses on crippling and mortally wounding nation- and international-wide criminal organizations when not spending his daylight hours managing Hayley's Circus. He has eviscerated enough criminal organizations that he has a bounty on his head that actually exceeds the standing one on his mentor back in Gotham. This bounty has lead to him taking down some over-ambitious hitmen like Brutale and Lady Vic, but has also landed him a complex professional rivalry with Deathstroke. The Terminator has never directly taken a contract against him, but has pursued him a few times, while both men have a debt collection between each other.

Nightwing returns to Gotham on Alfred's urging to try and help Bruce through his newly rediscovered idealism, and to try and officially patch things up, as well as take a more cooperative role in Batman's gathering of heroes for the future.

 

[godisawesome]

Okay, until someone else starts doing their own versions (seriously, guys, a lot of you are mor creative than I am), here's another.

Bane

Cast someone in their late from their late 20's to 40's. Bane's physicality has even less room for camera tricks than Hardy and Bale did thanks to Ben Affleck's height, so we would need someone physically imposing for the role. Now, of all the characteristics that showcase Bane's physical advantages over Bruce, like his height, weight, and bodybuilder-esque look, all of which in conjunction would be hard to cast with a good actor in tandem, his height is the only one that I think is super necessary for the actor. Someone at least Affleck's height and preferably taller could do the role with Twight-class training. I actually think a leaner Bane with long arms and towering stature can be more threatening if he's played with ferocity and agility in fight scenes. He shouldn't be a mindless brawler; Bane should apply technique and force in terrifying speed against his enemies.

Bane's visual look, personality, and attitude should follow a similar updating trajectory to the one applied in TDKR, but focusing on two more factets: Bane's autonomy should be absolute, and the entire thing should be translated more as an ambitious Barbarian warlord as opposed to a terrorist. Their should be something almost seductively mellow and calm about Bane's charisma; he wants to conquer because he can, and his confidence is earned. And the Barbarian warlord thing should serve as his foil with Batman, with their antagonism having a competitive and professional edge to it. It's still personal, because it always is, but we should see Bane as reveling in having a worthy opponent and enjoying the conflict enough that for all his ruthlessness, he does seem to give Batman and his allies a little bit more slack because he has to know who's better.

Bane doesn't bow to any other villains, and holds himself apart from most of them. He laughs at those who try and categorize their motives in more noble terms, like Ra's Al Ghul and Lex, and brooks no insult. He does have some rough honor, but it's based entirely around his pride and competitiveness. So, for instance, he doesn't believe in slaughtering children without specific tactical cause because he believes it's beneath him, and because he's not afraid of sons growing to try and avenge their fathers. He rules Santa Prisca and even manages Peña Duro as an international Alcatraz available for a price to any government, but rarely spends time on the island. Instead, he is usually found abroad, expanding his power and fame by subduing and extracting loyalty and tribute from whatever faction he can, whether that be criminal syndicates paying him monthly just to acknowledge his strength or weaker governments bowing to his policy wishes.

And that's part of his attraction to Gotham; almost any other city on any other continent, he can make someone bow to his will, and his name is spoken in hushed tones with the greatest fear among their underworlds. But not in Gotham. The city, it's rogues gallery, and it's protector are all even more infamous than Bane. In fact he first heard rumors and nightmares about the place when he was still just a mongrel prisoner of indeterminate origin dreaming of freedom, and has a certain chip on his shoulder form the time he once found a Gotham-transferred prisoner in Peña Duro who bluntly told him that he wasn't as scary as the Bat or the Clown. So he comes to Gotham to prove himself and break this last bastion against Bane.

 

[wnjcwjkk]

Okay, apologies in advance for my really long post haha




Nightwing: I really like your ideas. I haven't followed his comics as much as I should, but managing Haley's Circus? Is that what he does? Seems like kind of a waste of his time lol, like at least most of the other heroes have careers that kind of help their hero careers. Wasn't he also at one time a special agent for the government? I was thinking maybe a police officer or homicide detective in Bludhaven, though I suppose that would be pretty hard to juggle those responsibilities as well as being a full time vigilante. Maybe he does something where he works with kids, at the orphanage or something, which might add another layer to his character and endear him to the audience.


I do think Dick Grayson has potential to be a fan favorite on the big screen, much like the major player in the JL.

I completely agree about his fighting and action styles, very acrobatic and unique to his character. And I agree, he started fighting crime with Bats around age 16, for 3 or 4 years, before becoming Nightwing, then Batman took in Jason Todd, who gets killed, Batman blames himself, becomes hardened and cruel, and isolated from Grayson, tries to get him to go another route with his life, it's out of love, but he doesn't quite know how to express that, so it basically becomes a rift, where Batman tells him "I don't want to see you in Gotham." The two become estranged. I was thinking Grayson moves to Bludhaven, but I also like your idea of Nightwing not having a jurisdiction so much, but fights international crime.


Barbara Gordon: Maybe he lives there with Barbara Gordon, or maybe their relationship is fractured as well, but I'd like to see it get some focus, and the two get together in the end. A lot of that also ties into whether Barbara is Batgirl, hasn't become Batgirl yet, or is Oracle. Would love to see either. DC's done such a great job with Wonder Woman, creating a strong female role model who is so much more than just eye candy (though she is gorgeous), I'd like to see Barbara get similar treatment. Be great to see Barbara as Oracle, at least initially, to emphasize her brains, and to have a handicapped character who isn't so much of a downer, like the Wallace guy in BvS lol. Maybe she has dreams at night where you get to see flashbacks of her time as Batgirl, moving through the city, the wind in her face, following Grayson, the exhileration and freedom she feels, and eventually she is able to become that again. But, is she where Grayson is, or did she remain in Gotham, presumably with her father?


Another question, is two Robins enough? I think so. I definitely don't wanna see Damian in this world, that would just be overload, for me, with there being only so many Batman stories they will be able to tell.


I think it's cool seeing Batman, what he brings to the table, in a changing world with Gods, Monsters, and Aliens. But, for the Batman solo pictures, I want it to get back to that grimy, street level, gangsters, dealers, human traffickers, human scum, Art Deco, gothic, B:TAS, hard boiled detective stories that set Batman apart in the DC world. That's where he really shines for me, and as we've seen in BvS, there's just so much potential here for them to give us the Batman of the Animated Series and the comics. Not sure how I feel about them choosing the Red Hood story (if the rumors are true) just because we already know the mystery there, but it could still be great, and I'd like to see Nightwing and Batgirl get their introduction there, with a possible solo or team-up film to follow.



I wonder, would Ezra Miller have made a good Dick Grayson? Idk, I could kind of picture that, but I'm content with his role as The Flash. I do think it would be cool if they could get somebody of similar build, and either have them do a fair amount of weight loss/body building like Christian Bale, or CGI body transformation like Evans' Steve Rodgers, for flashbacks to Nightwing's time as Robin, giving him the smaller build of a 16 year old to better fit that Batman and Robin aesthetic, then about 30+ lbs heavier as an adult Nightwing.





Bane: Agree with what you say about him. Affleck is pretty huge, so they need somebody seriously big and imposing (maybe even having to use some CGI or camera tricks). I wonder if any wrestlers like Brock Lesnar or Batista have the acting chops to pull it off, since it probably wouldn't require as much emotion or facial acting, and his face would remain hidden (do they go the comic book visual route, with the luchadore mask? Idk). Wrestler is probably a bad idea lol, just a thought. I like the idea of him being more of a geopolitical warlord, or cartel leader, or even leader of a terrorist cell like Bin Ladin, as long as they make it different enough from TDKR, and stick closer to his comic book origins, with Pena Duro and Santa Prisca, as you said.




I think it could be a cool idea to have multiple villains or villain cameos within the Batman films, like a film that doesn't solely focus on Bane, because that ground has so recently been covered, but I'm always down for more Bane, he's one of the most intriguing of the Rogues for me.



The Riddler: Wait, I thought we already got him with Eisenburg? (Just kidding, I just knew somebody was bound to say it lol). I would definitely be down for a Riddler in this universe, maybe a cameo (Arkham or Long Halloween style). The problem is, of course, Luthor already portrayed a lot of his established characteristics (though I disagree that he was just a Riddler knock off), and Joker already has the whole flashy, rockstar image, criminal mastermind who does it for the thrill, thing going for him, so how to make Riddler stand out? Perhaps make him more of a lone serial killer, or serial criminal? I mean, let's say they were to make him a criminal mastermind, gang leader type (like Penguin), what street criminal in their right mind would want to crew for a guy who leaves clues at the scene of the crime for Batman, The World's Greatest Detective, to eventually catch them? Lol, imagine telling that story to the guys in prison. "Well, we woulda got away with it, but our boss was a real jackass who just HAD to leave riddles lying around to prove how much smarter he is than Batman..."



The Penguin: Would love to see him in some capacity, perhaps not the main villain, but in a supporting role. A really smart/shrewd businessman crime boss, Iceberg Lounge and all that, with his hand in several pots, who trades on information. Perhaps he was once a low level guy in the Falcone or Maroni operations, he wasn't allowed to move upward because he wasn't "One of us" as the Italian gangsters say, but he seized upon the opportunity, giving Batman something he needed to decimate the old school criminals, and he capitalized by seizing a major part of the territory/operations, jumping in to fill the void. Perhaps Batman even allows him to operate as long as he keeps peace in the streets, in exchange for information, could be an interesting informant/handler dynamic there, which Joker finds out about and uses against him. I'd love a scene like in Brubaker's Joker (what a fantastic book) where the two have a meetup and you see just how much Joker scares the crap out of Penguin.


For Penguin, I'd like to see Stephen Graham (who did a great job as Al Capone in HBO's Boardwalk Empire, also starring Michael Shannon who plays General Zod). I think he could really pull off the character, given some make up/prosthetics similar to Tom Cruise in Tropic Thunder, to make him more portly and give him the iconic beak of the cartoon/comics. And you do not call him Penguin to his face.


I'd also like to see Two Face and Ras Al Ghul in some capacity. Harvey Dent is just such a great character, who fits perfectly into the noir, Dick Tracy, detective, 1930's gangster serial aesthetic of Batman (man, wasn't Batman: The Animated Series a flawless representation of the Batman noir mythology?). I think there's still a lot of untapped potential with his character that TDK didn't quite get a chance to explore. Let's just go full throttle with this Batman, like I said, make his world basically the live action equivalent of what Paul Dini and company did with TAS. Batman is basically a Sherlock Holmes meets James Bond as a ninja, set within this dark, gothic, film noir, hard boiled detective, James Cagney, Humphrey Bogart, Dick Tracy world. His solo films really need to capitalize and reflect that.



Gordon: Tough as nails, old school, good hearted, incorruptible, Year One all the way. Like Batman, older and hardened, cynical, but has yet to compromise. Perhaps there's a rift between him and Batman that needs to be mended. His absence from BvS was very noticable (though I suppose there was no need for his character, I'm assuming he is still Gotham City Police Commissioner). The classic hardened detective archetype, he has a good heart, but his work has caused a rift among his family. Let's say Barbara Gordon is or was Batgirl in this Universe, did that bring them closer together or push them further apart? Of course, that's not the life he wanted for his daughter. Perhaps he blames Batman for what happened to her (assuming The Killing Joke is somehow a part of this mythology), how does that affect their relationship? Batman was very isolated at the beginning of BvS, so he has some bridges to rebuild amongst his allies, hopefully we'll have a chance to explore all that. I'm so glad Gordon isn't deceased, like it appeared he was going to be in BvS for a little while (UNLESS, he is, and we only get to see J.K. Simmons in flashbacks...)



Sometimes, I kinda wish Scott Snyder had saved some of his stories, like Court Of Owls and Black Mirror for the big screen, so we could see them play out in the films. He's such a damn good cinematic writer, all of his stories play out like an epic film. I really wish they would get him and Brubaker as writers, at least in a story capacity. I think a variation of The Black Mirror could make a hell of a solo Nightwing film, incorporating Barbara and James Gordon, as well as his son. Brilliant story. And a variation of Court Of Owls could have made a great cinematic introduction into the Batman film world.

 

[godisawesome]

Two Robins would definitely work; while I'm a bigger fan of Tim Drake, he's a character more suited to being a protege eventually deployed apart from Batman, while Damina feels like he'd work best in tandem with a Bat-Grayson.

Two-Face

I'm with you when it comes to his appeal; he's probably the biggest throwback rogue and arguably the one who seems the most mundane, which can really help him stand out against the rest.

Cast someone Affleck's age. I'd recommend Matt Damon, and I'm only half joking. Either way, I'd make him a character defined by wrath, just like Eckhardt's version, but also plagued by other impulses and vices. To make his Dissassociative Perosnality Disorder work a bit more like the comics, I'd add a wrinkle to his origin; after being scarred, Harvey Dent became the priority patient at Afkham Asylum...for Professor Hugo Strange. Strange exacerbated and toyed with Harvey's mind to give it the appearance of being cured, while actually creating a psychotic split personality. When he was stopped, you got the classic man who needs to flip a coin to either sya yes or no to his impulses.

Now, here's how I'd have him look, operate and act:

Harvey Dent is a model patient/prisoner...half of the time. He turned himself in after one of his crime sprees, and is perpetually attempting to get facial reconstruction to accompany his mental healing, but his other side keeps interfering. The left side of his face is a patchwork of both originally scarred skin, fresh skin grafts, and scarred skin grafts. He's kept heavily medicated and receives weekly visits from Bruce Wayne and other friends. His doctors and guardians face a conundrum: keep him almost compeltley immobilized via medication, and they can slowly try and piece his psyche back together over years and let his body atrophy and risk total addiction, or pull back on the mess and risk dealing with the quiet, psychotic, and desperate dark side.

Harvey is a brave man, while Two Face is suicidally overconfident and tough sonufagun, with pain receptors that don't quite work right and an intensely manipulative mind. His years as a District Attorney left Harvey with an intimate knowledge of the workings of Gotham's criminal underworld, which Two Face has no problem with abusing. Two Face's usual motivation is revenge or "teaching these ungrateful idiots a lesson;" he often employs other criminals or blackmails them to work for him, men like Firefly, and is just as likely to sack an illegal casino for preying on the weak as hold hostage and execute people at a political rally for a blatantly corrupt politician. He's not much of a physical threat at first glance, but is again unusually tough, uses big guns, and can take an insane amount of punishment.

He's also one of a handful of individuals who has the balls to spit in Joker's face, or even backhand the Clown, who sometimes retaliates when irritated, and other times just laughs.

 

[wnjcwjkk]

Yeah, that's good stuff. Thinking about it, Matt Damon actually could make a good Two Face. I also think he could make a really likable Hal Jordan. It would be cool in either of those roles, because he and Affleck have a history, which could come off well onscreen

 

[wnjcwjkk]

I also like what I've seen of Leto's Joker so far. Crazy, sociopathic, showy, flashy, almost like a rock star, frightening, monstrous, unpredictable, and maybe most importantly, he looks like he's really enjoying himself, he genuinely loves what he does. You can really see it in his face when shooting that machine gun (kind of a cool throwback to the old gangster serial and Cagney movies, like around 1:30 in this Dick Tracy clip: https://youtu.be/ow8E7h7VCkE ) and in his eyes when he says "I'm just gonna hurt you really REALLY bad!"


I see Joker as a guy on a permanent acid trip (if anybody's ever done that, you probably know what I'm talking about). The regularness of day to day real life just seems so absolutely absurd to him. He has to do things to upset the apple cart, so to speak, because he genuinely gets a kick out of it, it's absolutely hilarious to him. So, when you've got a mental state like that, you've got this guy coming after you, with all this training and gadgets and wearing a Bat suit, and he is so dead serious and pissed off, that has got to be the most absurd, hilarious thing in Joker's life. And Batman just gets more and more serious and pissed off the more Joker antagonizes him, and it just gets funnier and funnier. He can't get enough of it. That, to me, is the essence of the character, and I appreciate that Leto and Ayer seem to be doing their best to make that come across on screen.


I've even come to accept the tattoos, which at first turned me off, but now I see it as, these tattoos are like a little joke to screw with Batman even more, part of his flashy, rock star persona, and he is modeled after these Mexican cartel members, dangerous and frightening. He has people in white coats trying to get to the "root of his issues", telling him he's a product of society, that he can address and fix these issues, but he just thinks they are hilarious morons who have no idea what they're talking about, so he gets a sarcastic DAMAGED across his forehead

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Oded Fehr as Ra's al Ghul. For the most part use his comic origin. Yes, he's hundreds of years old. Yes, Lazarus pits exist. To ground it a little more I'd tie the League of Assassins to the Ismaili Shias of old Al Masyaf in Syria who were active during the crusades.

 

[godisawesome]

Fehr would have been excellent for playing a young, rejuvenated Ra's years ago, with an older actor like the guy who played Saladin in Kingdom of Heaven playing his older form. Fehr could still work today, though.

Here's my Al Ghuls:

Ra's Al Ghul

Flexible casting, thanks to the Pits. I'd go for pure talent and cast someone of middle eastern/mixed ancestry, but make sure he plays the character as being highly secular and narcissistic; I'd try to make his character far closer to Bond Badguy tropes than any real world terrorist groups.

Here's the big change I would make to his background; the position of Ra's Al Ghul is a title passed on to the most viable candidate the current holder can find, with the general trend that the extended lifetimes meant that the men they found were always more formidable than the last. The Ra's we know was born sometime in the 19th century, and has had the longest term in the position. And the Demon organization he runs has kind of a mixture of the Nolan films and the comic version in terms of their goals; they sit in judgement over civilizations and punish what folly they see, with the current Ra's plans rising to apocalyptic save the world by killing half the population levels.

What matters aside form this though, is Ra's relationships with his children, his greatest foe, and the lessening effects of the Lazarus Pits upon his body. While the Pots still rejuvenate him, the effect is less and less than before, and his recuperation period is longer and longer. He views his two daughters as skilled enough for inheritance, but sees Nyssa as a rebel who wants to take the LOA and Demon to a more public level that will "lower" them to their "subject's" level, Talia as too ruthless, vengeful, and pragmatic to hold to the Demon's ideals (but he also thinks that would compliment an idealist like Bruce), and Dusan as just an overall disappointment.

Talia
Ra's most formidable overall child, Bruce's ex, and a study in how power can burn away compassion and empathy. She's struck back against those who she thinks wronged her and her mother, and finds the satisfaction still wanting. Her current priorities align with her very self-centered and not-at-all idealistic Leviathan commanding self from the comics, with a side of her being extremely invested in making sure that her son Damian really is "utterly safe and secure" in the future. Yeah, I'm writing this with Damian in mind, but he's actually not as important to the character of Talia as her past is.

The casting should favor an actress of mixed ancestry, while any physical trading for the role should go for the more graceful and deceptively non-threatening look that Hathaway had for Selina Kyle, because I really want this Talia to be pure femme fatale and offstage mastermind. The actress should portray an attitude and pose that seems less dangerous than the rest fo her family, and you should feel that Bruce has a protective instinct towards her, even though he knows better. And part for he reason she's full femme fatale, something her Leviathan form seemed over and her original self was always more sympathetic than, is because she's being combined with another person from Batmythology.

You see, this Talia actually was associated with Bruce and one of his greatest loves both before he became Batman and before she knew her her father was. Bruce, while traveling the world, joined an underground resistance movement somewhere in Eastern Europe, an group lead by Talia's mother, where he fell in love with the then-idealistic Talia, or as he knew her then, Andrea Beaumont. Things went pear shaped for the group, with Bruce thinking everyone died, Talia finding her dying mother and being given her real name and her father's location.

This Talia is thus a combination of the Phantasm from the old DCAU and Talia herself. She was the one who told her father about Bruce, she pursues revenge in a way that is clearly perosnal, and her Leviathan skull mask and costume are cut to resemble Phantasm more than a random skull and cloak look.

 

[Victarion]

Deacon Blackfire - A shaman that takes advantage of the rising anti-metahuman sentiment among people like the crippled guy from BvS. From these, he raises an army of homegrown terrorists. Blackfire gains his shamanic power from a contract with Trigon and his fire demons.

Bane - Bane grew up in a village that was under the "protection" of a cartel boss tied to the human trafficking operation in BvS. Batman disrupting the flow of goods has caused the cartel boss to begin preying on the people in Bane's village. Bane stood up to the boss, and thanks to the boss's connections, was throw into Pena Dura. Bane fostered a grudge against the boss and the one responsible for the boss's depredations - the Batman.

The Riddler - A former police detective that's getting burnt out on the upsurge in violent crimes. He believes that the Batman's more brutal methods are responsible for the escalation in criminal violence. Commissioner Gordon's partnership with the Batman will continue to make things worse - so the Riddler is created; touting his intellect over the thuggish brutality of Gotham's underworld, the Riddler begins ****ing around with the various bosses' assets, leaving behind riddles implicating their respective rivals.

Poison Ivy - The head of a South American cartel whose interest in the Darkseid War of Earth's Past has fueled her development of a drug that grants the user metahuman capabilities. Her enforcers are sentient plant-creatures that neutralize threats with various poisons. Ivy's interest in the Darkseid War manifests in her search for old idols and totems linked to the DCEU's mystical planes; her grand project is a drug that blends the mystic with the extraterrestrial.

 

[godisawesome]

The Riddler - A former police detective that's getting burnt out on the upsurge in violent crimes. He believes that the Batman's more brutal methods are responsible for the escalation in criminal violence. Commissioner Gordon's partnership with the Batman will continue to make things worse - so the Riddler is created; touting his intellect over the thuggish brutality of Gotham's underworld, the Riddler begins ****ing around with the various bosses' assets, leaving behind riddles implicating their respective rivals.

It's kind of funny just how well Riddler works as an ex-cop, considering that idea's largely new but acts as an excellent explanation for his whole M.O.

Here's my modified version of the character:

The Riddler

Cast an actor who seems slick and talkative. Don't play him as the loser from the Arkham games, and go all in on John Glover's version from BTAS and do nothing with Frank Gorshin's legacy; this guy should feel like he would be a cool geek with social skills of it weren't for the narcissism and apathy to the plights of others, thought I wouldn't make him a real sociopath.

Edmund Nashton was always a little off as a cop. He became one because he hails from a family of cops, albeit one that started to turn rotten in later generations. He always hated the job, especially since he was usually working out of the notoriously corrupt Vice division, but he loved the challenge of solving the crimes, though that was always undercut by the way numerous cases were then quietly swept under the rug. He also had a strange friendship with the only partner to ever stick with him; Harvey Bullock. Harvey was corrupt on most cases, but he was the only cop to grasp just how smart Ed was, and the two worked together to take down some criminals who sickened Harvey and challenged Ed.

Eventually, Ed got tired of being an impotent do-gooder, especially since he never really cared about the victims in the first place. He started off quietly, as an information broker and blackmailer using a new identity, Edward Nigma. He made a small fortune and gradually grew until he graduated to bigger crimes, acting as a Moriarty style "Consulting criminal." The newspapers christened him the Riddler, and he loved that. His occasional habit of leaving behind clues became a full blown obsession, and when Batman uncovered who he was and he was dragged out of the GCPD in handcuffs, he became obsessed about beating Batman too. He almost never carries out a scheme personally, but is too mobile and too much of a social animal to not hang out with other criminals in his custom suits.

Incidentally, he employed the alcholholic forensics expert Arthur Brown as a "cleaner" to ensure no evidence was left behind besides his riddles, but the two had a falling out when "Cluemaster" tried to steal some of Riddler's Thunder with his own clues.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Fehr would have been excellent for playing a young, rejuvenated Ra's years ago, with an older actor like the guy who played Saladin in Kingdom of Heaven playing his older form. Fehr could still work today, though.

Here's my Al Ghuls:

Ra's Al Ghul

Flexible casting, thanks to the Pits. I'd go for pure talent and cast someone of middle eastern/mixed ancestry, but make sure he plays the character as being highly secular and narcissistic; I'd try to make his character far closer to Bond Badguy tropes than any real world terrorist groups.

Here's the big change I would make to his background; the position of Ra's Al Ghul is a title passed on to the most viable candidate the current holder can find, with the general trend that the extended lifetimes meant that the men they found were always more formidable than the last. The Ra's we know was born sometime in the 19th century, and has had the longest term in the position. And the Demon organization he runs has kind of a mixture of the Nolan films and the comic version in terms of their goals; they sit in judgement over civilizations and punish what folly they see, with the current Ra's plans rising to apocalyptic save the world by killing half the population levels.

What matters aside form this though, is Ra's relationships with his children, his greatest foe, and the lessening effects of the Lazarus Pits upon his body. While the Pots still rejuvenate him, the effect is less and less than before, and his recuperation period is longer and longer. He views his two daughters as skilled enough for inheritance, but sees Nyssa as a rebel who wants to take the LOA and Demon to a more public level that will "lower" them to their "subject's" level, Talia as too ruthless, vengeful, and pragmatic to hold to the Demon's ideals (but he also thinks that would compliment an idealist like Bruce), and Dusan as just an overall disappointment.

Talia
Ra's most formidable overall child, Bruce's ex, and a study in how power can burn away compassion and empathy. She's struck back against those who she thinks wronged her and her mother, and finds the satisfaction still wanting. Her current priorities align with her very self-centered and not-at-all idealistic Leviathan commanding self from the comics, with a side of her being extremely invested in making sure that her son Damian really is "utterly safe and secure" in the future. Yeah, I'm writing this with Damian in mind, but he's actually not as important to the character of Talia as her past is.

The casting should favor an actress of mixed ancestry, while any physical trading for the role should go for the more graceful and deceptively non-threatening look that Hathaway had for Selina Kyle, because I really want this Talia to be pure femme fatale and offstage mastermind. The actress should portray an attitude and pose that seems less dangerous than the rest fo her family, and you should feel that Bruce has a protective instinct towards her, even though he knows better. And part for he reason she's full femme fatale, something her Leviathan form seemed over and her original self was always more sympathetic than, is because she's being combined with another person from Batmythology.

You see, this Talia actually was associated with Bruce and one of his greatest loves both before he became Batman and before she knew her her father was. Bruce, while traveling the world, joined an underground resistance movement somewhere in Eastern Europe, an group lead by Talia's mother, where he fell in love with the then-idealistic Talia, or as he knew her then, Andrea Beaumont. Things went pear shaped for the group, with Bruce thinking everyone died, Talia finding her dying mother and being given her real name and her father's location.

This Talia is thus a combination of the Phantasm from the old DCAU and Talia herself. She was the one who told her father about Bruce, she pursues revenge in a way that is clearly perosnal, and her Leviathan skull mask and costume are cut to resemble Phantasm more than a random skull and cloak look.

I dig how you combined Talia Al Ghul with Andrea Beamont. At least their backstories.

Their relationship going forward would be interesting to say the least.

I know people'll hate me for this, but I've never felt like Selina loved Bruce Wayne. It was raw lust and passion between the both of them.

To me Bruce and Talia is where that bittersweet love story is. Throw Damian in the mix and it gets more interesting/complicated.

 

[godisawesome]

I dig how you combined Talia Al Ghul with Andrea Beamont. At least their backstories.

Their relationship going forward would be interesting to say the least.

I know people'll hate me for this, but I've never felt like Selina loved Bruce Wayne. It was raw lust and passion between the both of them.

To me Bruce and Talia is where that bittersweet love story is. Throw Damian in the mix and it gets more interesting/complicated.

Bruce and Talia should be bittersweet in my opinion, albeit bittersweet in that they both know those days are behind them and that neither one can meet the other at their end of the spectrum of morality. I prefer Damian to be a child born out of something besides date-rape, while I like the idea of Talia having been at one point such a good person to win Bruce's heart, but strong willed enough that when she goes bad, it's entirely her own voilition and somewhat more dangerous because she's given up on going back.

On the other hand, I am a Catwoman and Batman fan, so here's my attempt to kind of build her up differently than Talia:

Catwoman

Y'know how I said I wanted Talia to be of more graceful physique, to the point of suggesting a delicate look hiding surprising strength? Catwoman should be the opposite of that; whoever is cast should get physical training by Twight or whomever to be more sinuous strong, to have a mix between a boxer/MMA fighter and a gymnast. Still very feminine, but an athletic and sensual kind of power should be clear. Ethnicity should be largely an open call; whoever is the actress capable of getting the personality and physicality down for the role gets the part, since traditionally, Catwoman's background is focused far more on her experiences growing up than on her parentage. Age should be headed far more towards Affleck's age in the upper 30's and lower 40's than 20's; I want a Catwoman who's clearly a veteran of Gotham's nightlife and also very clearly a grown woman, not a girl.

And we should start by building her off the idea of her being a presence in Gotham for at least a decade, and one that Batman has tolerated and also weathered the storm of guys like Joker. So this is a tough and smart woman, one who can evolve with the times, and thus she's diversified. I'd make her a combination fence, Cat burglar, vigilante, and corporate espionage freelancer, who operates out of a club and illegal casino located in the East End that she has a stake in. She's managed to carve a little niche of Gotham that's a safe haven for non-violent thieves, and ladies and gentlemen of the evening, but nearly vacant of violent criminals and exploiters. She's not a madam or a drug dealer, but if you've got cash and are hellbent on keeping it, stay out of the East End.

And I'd define the rest of her character around being an adventuress with a smile. She's too good and too wily to count as a real thrill seeker, but she does frequently take on jobs or challenges based off the adrenaline spike she'll feel and the bragging rights of accomplishing the impossible. She does treat Catwoman as a kind of seperate person, unlike Batman, and I think that as a civilian, Selina Kyle tends to be very relaxed, quietly seductive and mellow, like a house cat, while in her suit, she's all smiles and flirtation. She's still a cynic, but a cynic with rules and some hopes.

She and Batman showdown have a fascinating relationship chock full of history. He's caught her a few times, hired her for jobs, collaborated to bring down bigger threats, and just as often she's hoodwinked him, picked his pocket, drawn his blood in combat, and saved him a few times. To me, there should be some genuine emotional connection there, but muddled and complicated by everything else, not the least of which is Batman's wariness for her generally self seeking nature clashing with her spikes of empathy for him. Personally, I think they should know each other's identities, since it makes the interactions even more complex, though I'm torn over whether they trusted each other with that or stumbled into it; while it would speak volumes as to their ability to trust each other if they made that choice, it seems far more funny to me if they stumbled into that information and both refuse to act on it.

I'd have had Bruce and Selina date in the past, with some hijinks related to her initially seeking the relationship because he was a mark and him doing likewise to keep an eye on her activities, but have a kind of awkward mutual attraction but inability to go farther now that they know each other better. It would just be funnier that way.

 

[Victarion]

Deacon Blackfire - A shaman that takes advantage of the rising anti-metahuman sentiment among people like the crippled guy from BvS. From these, he raises an army of homegrown terrorists. Blackfire gains his shamanic power from a contract with Trigon and his fire demons.

Bane - Bane grew up in a village that was under the "protection" of a cartel boss tied to the human trafficking operation in BvS. Batman disrupting the flow of goods has caused the cartel boss to begin preying on the people in Bane's village. Bane stood up to the boss, and thanks to the boss's connections, was throw into Pena Dura. Bane fostered a grudge against the boss and the one responsible for the boss's depredations - the Batman.

The Riddler - A former police detective that's getting burnt out on the upsurge in violent crimes. He believes that the Batman's more brutal methods are responsible for the escalation in criminal violence. Commissioner Gordon's partnership with the Batman will continue to make things worse - so the Riddler is created; touting his intellect over the thuggish brutality of Gotham's underworld, the Riddler begins ****ing around with the various bosses' assets, leaving behind riddles implicating their respective rivals.

Poison Ivy - The head of a South American cartel whose interest in the Darkseid War of Earth's Past has fueled her development of a drug that grants the user metahuman capabilities. Her enforcers are sentient plant-creatures that neutralize threats with various poisons. Ivy's interest in the Darkseid War manifests in her search for old idols and totems linked to the DCEU's mystical planes; her grand project is a drug that blends the mystic with the extraterrestrial.

Ra's Al Ghul - Ra's is a skilled martial artist that claims he's doomed to live forever. A soldier of some great cosmic balance forged from the primordial chaos predating the Big Bang; a balance from which sprang the humans, Amazonians, Kryptonians, Atlanteans. His temple is steeped in both cosmic and occult iconography. Ra's is a neutral individual that acts for the betterment of his perceived cosmic balance.

 

[godisawesome]

Since we might have this character confirmed, why not?

Deathstroke

We've got his look. The only real question to ask right now in terms of appearance is who should play him and whether or not Slade Wilson should be as important to the tale as Deathstroke. If we need someone out of costume to provide gravitas, I'd go ahead and say Stephen Lang; he's 64, but is still in great shape right now and the suit can shield the infirmities of age on screen. If we don't need him out of costume, get a body language actor and a martial artist for the suit, and maybe go ahead and have Ron Pearlman do the voice.

And since I feel he's got a greater meta-relationship with Nightwing, I'd build that into the character. Have him and Dick Grayson share a violent history, and maybe even use that to build up both guys. Now, as to the idea for why he's the badguy, I see two reasons, which could be blended; the character has a history of mixing business and personal in sometimes self-defeating ways.

Professional reason, which could easily work, would be that he's hired by someone like Luthor to take out Batman. That might even make it interesting if he's a no-nonsense threat who simply hounds Batman for non-stop multiple nights in a row, forcing Batman to desperate measures to beat him. It's simple, and it does kind of make him one dimensional in his antagonism; that's excellent if you're going to focus on Bruce as a person, but still kind of lackluster by itself. So here's my proposal for his personal antagonism; he's trained Jason Todd as the Red Hood, and maybe even acts as the one who resurrected him, and deploying him in Gotham is part of his attempt at cementing a legacy. Maybe he even got his claws into Jason before Joker killed him; it might work really well if he'd started giving Jason his Deathstroke serum before Jason's death, with Slade collecting his body before it regenerates. Or maybe Nightwing turned Slade's daughter Rose against him, so that's why he trained Jason, taking a brother to replace a daughter.

 

[Brother Jack]

It's kind of funny just how well Riddler works as an ex-cop, considering that idea's largely new but acts as an excellent explanation for his whole M.O.

I always thought that would've been a perfect way to do him in the Nolanverse.

 

[NateHevens]

Here's the general problem with this... if we're keeping to the universe established in Man of Steel and Batman v Superman, we're dealing with an older, seasoned Batman. So, if the comics are canon (even just a bit), this is a Batman that's already had his back broken, already dealt with the earthquake that laid waste to Gotham, and all that. He already has his rogue's gallery. This is complicated by the fact that this older, seasoned Batman is starting the Justice League while Superman is younger and new, which means some things are going to have to change, including many timelines. But that doesn't mean we need to see this older Batman suddenly being introduced to his rogue's gallery. He can largely still already have them and have a large history with them.

Perhaps DC and WB can use their animated line to fill in the history... maybe they can even get the actors to voice their younger selves in the animated films.

That said, I'll be doing this with the above in mind. I'm assuming the formative stuff has already happened, so each character I discuss (I won't discuss many, only the few I can actually imagine right now) is older, seasoned, and already has the history with Batman.

Bane: I will absolutely admit to wanting to see the Knightfall arc as a movie or series... I realize that Az!Bat was ridiculous, but that was the point, and I'd love to see him handled away from the comics.

That said, as I said above, I'm assuming that Affleck's older Batman has already been through all that. So I don't think we need to see Bane break Batman's back in the live action films again.

I'll start with casting... I actually want someone of Hispanic origin playing Bane. The actor doesn't necessarily have to be older, but they should be playing someone older. That said, he should be physically imposing, calm, cool, collected, calculated, narcissistic, and strong even when not using Venom. He should be a master strategist, as well.

Just how far along in Bane's story should we be? I think he could be in the phase of almost becoming a good guy... working to beat his addiction to Venom, maybe he could even team up with Batman for a story.

Poison Ivy: As far as I'm concerned, she is one of the characters who desperately needs to be redeemed after the godawful Batman & Robin. I don't care so much about the skin color of the actor, but her hair should be red, maybe with just a tiny bit of gray to establish her as an older, seasoned character.

Since it's already been established that this is a world with mysticism and more, let Poison Ivy have that immunity to all natural poisons and toxins (and, since this is an older Poison Ivy, I'd be cool if she deliberately developed immunities to artificial poisons and toxins, as well). And let her control Mother Nature, as well.

Note that I avoided "villain", here... I want it to be clear that Poison Ivy and Batman have a history, and not always an antagonistic one. She should be more on the villain side than Catwoman, but I would actually like some... tension... between her and Batman. At the very least have it be clear that they've both been on opposite sides and have teamed up. However, we should see her as a villain.

Black Mask: Again, this is a Black Mask who's already been through most of it. So maybe he doesn't wear his mask anymore, letting the world see his scars. But he keeps the mask, maybe in a glass case, as a reminder of his past and who he is. I have no opinion about casting here... someone who fits the role of a scarred, older crime lord (ooh! Al Pacino?).

Catwoman: Actually, I wouldn't mind a retired Selina Kyle, here. Casting-wise... maybe Kate Beckinsale? Angelina Jolie? Someone who's given up being Catwoman, but is forced back into it one way or another ("one more time"). While I have no specific problem with her having a lot of cats, I don't want her to be a "crazy cat lady" stereotype, either. In fact, let her be someone who's been wildly successful doing... something... and is perhaps an older playgirl.

I definitely would prefer to see her as generally "good" at this point in her career... if she does don the Catsuit again, let it be as a hero, not a villain.

Riddler: As with the others, older and seasoned. This may sound weird, but I think they should take a cue from the DCUO (which I haven't logged back into in a long time... I need to) and have him be retired and reformed. Leaving clues should still be a compulsion, but they should come up with a good reason to have him return to this.

As for casting... he should be an older nerd, maybe even a bit creepy (older, but still dealing with social anxiety on account of being an outcast). I have no specific vision of what he'd look like.

If he does come out of retirement, I would like to see him sort of fake being a good guy, only to turn out to be the mastermind villain behind... whatever it is. Maybe retcon Hush for this purpose (that could actually be a good story line to give us everyone else above all at once... maybe)?

Barbara Gordon: Not as Batgirl, but Oracle. Since they're just forming the Justice League, she would be perfect in that role. Have her be in a relationship with Dick Grayson (as Nightwing... I absolutely loved the description of him given by godisawesome above, so I'll just go with that); and no romantic/sexual relationship with Bruce Wayne, thanks.

Kate Kane: Here's your Batwoman, operating separately from Batman but still an ally of his.

Cassandra Caine: Let her be the current Batgirl, working with Kate Kane.

I have no thoughts about Penguin, Scarecrow, Mr. Freeze, Clayface, Firefly, Hugo Strange, Mad-Hatter, Red Hood etc, nor about Spoiler, Hawkfire, Julia Pennyworth, etc at this time.

 

[godisawesome]

Bringing this thread up again for fun.

The Penguin

A misshapen man in a nice suit. I feel he shouldn't be played as a particularly dynamic character, but instead as a kind of symbol of Gotham's old school stagnant criminal underworld. He runs the Iceberg Lounge and is *the* primary fence, smuggler, and arms dealer in the city. Having said that, the main reason he still operates is because he is exceptionally cautious and paranoid, to the extent that he never directly deals with his henchmen and is perfectly willing to inform to the Bat. I don't have any particular actor in mind for him; he could be an Englishmen or an American, and even his physique is flexible with this version.

You see, this Penguin was not born disfigured, but he is no longer the handsome young man he was. He's disfigured by the beatings and injuries he's received in his life, giving him a hunched posture, pronounced limp requiring a cane or umbrella, gnarled hands he hides in gloves, and a bad eye covered by a black monocle. Batman's only responsible for some of his injuries; the rest are the result of his own weapons backfiring and his struggles for dominance in the Underworld. While not necessarily physically imposing, he is still dangerous, being surprisingly strong and having some of that "reinforced" joints and bones thanks to his braces and meanness. It's just he's far from mobile, and can be easily subdued with grappling locks; thus his reliance on hidden weapons.

Penguin is never the true ringleader of any villainous conspiracy; ringleaders take the risks and the heat of a failed enterprise, and Penguin is always ready to swoop in and scavenge the assets of a defeated business associate. He is, however, the lifeblood of Gotham's criminal connected underworld; whenever he goes underground, everyone is separated into little fiefdoms. Joker, Two-Face and others reign over crime, with Penguin usually afraid of them (though not terrified) and hateful at the same time. His biggest personal antagonism is with Bruce Wayne as a civilian (mostly from Oswald as part of an old family feud) and Red Robin/Robin 3 as a villain (he's gunning for Tim's family and Tim is determined to take him down.)

I might actually do the other Robins in brief next.

 

[King23DC]

Okay, apologies in advance for my really long post haha




Nightwing: I really like your ideas. I haven't followed his comics as much as I should, but managing Haley's Circus? Is that what he does? Seems like kind of a waste of his time lol, like at least most of the other heroes have careers that kind of help their hero careers. Wasn't he also at one time a special agent for the government? I was thinking maybe a police officer or homicide detective in Bludhaven, though I suppose that would be pretty hard to juggle those responsibilities as well as being a full time vigilante. Maybe he does something where he works with kids, at the orphanage or something, which might add another layer to his character and endear him to the audience.


I do think Dick Grayson has potential to be a fan favorite on the big screen, much like the major player in the JL.

I completely agree about his fighting and action styles, very acrobatic and unique to his character. And I agree, he started fighting crime with Bats around age 16, for 3 or 4 years, before becoming Nightwing, then Batman took in Jason Todd, who gets killed, Batman blames himself, becomes hardened and cruel, and isolated from Grayson, tries to get him to go another route with his life, it's out of love, but he doesn't quite know how to express that, so it basically becomes a rift, where Batman tells him "I don't want to see you in Gotham." The two become estranged. I was thinking Grayson moves to Bludhaven, but I also like your idea of Nightwing not having a jurisdiction so much, but fights international crime.


Barbara Gordon: Maybe he lives there with Barbara Gordon, or maybe their relationship is fractured as well, but I'd like to see it get some focus, and the two get together in the end. A lot of that also ties into whether Barbara is Batgirl, hasn't become Batgirl yet, or is Oracle. Would love to see either. DC's done such a great job with Wonder Woman, creating a strong female role model who is so much more than just eye candy (though she is gorgeous), I'd like to see Barbara get similar treatment. Be great to see Barbara as Oracle, at least initially, to emphasize her brains, and to have a handicapped character who isn't so much of a downer, like the Wallace guy in BvS lol. Maybe she has dreams at night where you get to see flashbacks of her time as Batgirl, moving through the city, the wind in her face, following Grayson, the exhileration and freedom she feels, and eventually she is able to become that again. But, is she where Grayson is, or did she remain in Gotham, presumably with her father?


Another question, is two Robins enough? I think so. I definitely don't wanna see Damian in this world, that would just be overload, for me, with there being only so many Batman stories they will be able to tell.


I think it's cool seeing Batman, what he brings to the table, in a changing world with Gods, Monsters, and Aliens. But, for the Batman solo pictures, I want it to get back to that grimy, street level, gangsters, dealers, human traffickers, human scum, Art Deco, gothic, B:TAS, hard boiled detective stories that set Batman apart in the DC world. That's where he really shines for me, and as we've seen in BvS, there's just so much potential here for them to give us the Batman of the Animated Series and the comics. Not sure how I feel about them choosing the Red Hood story (if the rumors are true) just because we already know the mystery there, but it could still be great, and I'd like to see Nightwing and Batgirl get their introduction there, with a possible solo or team-up film to follow.



I wonder, would Ezra Miller have made a good Dick Grayson? Idk, I could kind of picture that, but I'm content with his role as The Flash. I do think it would be cool if they could get somebody of similar build, and either have them do a fair amount of weight loss/body building like Christian Bale, or CGI body transformation like Evans' Steve Rodgers, for flashbacks to Nightwing's time as Robin, giving him the smaller build of a 16 year old to better fit that Batman and Robin aesthetic, then about 30+ lbs heavier as an adult Nightwing.





Bane: Agree with what you say about him. Affleck is pretty huge, so they need somebody seriously big and imposing (maybe even having to use some CGI or camera tricks). I wonder if any wrestlers like Brock Lesnar or Batista have the acting chops to pull it off, since it probably wouldn't require as much emotion or facial acting, and his face would remain hidden (do they go the comic book visual route, with the luchadore mask? Idk). Wrestler is probably a bad idea lol, just a thought. I like the idea of him being more of a geopolitical warlord, or cartel leader, or even leader of a terrorist cell like Bin Ladin, as long as they make it different enough from TDKR, and stick closer to his comic book origins, with Pena Duro and Santa Prisca, as you said.




I think it could be a cool idea to have multiple villains or villain cameos within the Batman films, like a film that doesn't solely focus on Bane, because that ground has so recently been covered, but I'm always down for more Bane, he's one of the most intriguing of the Rogues for me.



The Riddler: Wait, I thought we already got him with Eisenburg? (Just kidding, I just knew somebody was bound to say it lol). I would definitely be down for a Riddler in this universe, maybe a cameo (Arkham or Long Halloween style). The problem is, of course, Luthor already portrayed a lot of his established characteristics (though I disagree that he was just a Riddler knock off), and Joker already has the whole flashy, rockstar image, criminal mastermind who does it for the thrill, thing going for him, so how to make Riddler stand out? Perhaps make him more of a lone serial killer, or serial criminal? I mean, let's say they were to make him a criminal mastermind, gang leader type (like Penguin), what street criminal in their right mind would want to crew for a guy who leaves clues at the scene of the crime for Batman, The World's Greatest Detective, to eventually catch them? Lol, imagine telling that story to the guys in prison. "Well, we woulda got away with it, but our boss was a real jackass who just HAD to leave riddles lying around to prove how much smarter he is than Batman..."



The Penguin: Would love to see him in some capacity, perhaps not the main villain, but in a supporting role. A really smart/shrewd businessman crime boss, Iceberg Lounge and all that, with his hand in several pots, who trades on information. Perhaps he was once a low level guy in the Falcone or Maroni operations, he wasn't allowed to move upward because he wasn't "One of us" as the Italian gangsters say, but he seized upon the opportunity, giving Batman something he needed to decimate the old school criminals, and he capitalized by seizing a major part of the territory/operations, jumping in to fill the void. Perhaps Batman even allows him to operate as long as he keeps peace in the streets, in exchange for information, could be an interesting informant/handler dynamic there, which Joker finds out about and uses against him. I'd love a scene like in Brubaker's Joker (what a fantastic book) where the two have a meetup and you see just how much Joker scares the crap out of Penguin.


For Penguin, I'd like to see Stephen Graham (who did a great job as Al Capone in HBO's Boardwalk Empire, also starring Michael Shannon who plays General Zod). I think he could really pull off the character, given some make up/prosthetics similar to Tom Cruise in Tropic Thunder, to make him more portly and give him the iconic beak of the cartoon/comics. And you do not call him Penguin to his face.


I'd also like to see Two Face and Ras Al Ghul in some capacity. Harvey Dent is just such a great character, who fits perfectly into the noir, Dick Tracy, detective, 1930's gangster serial aesthetic of Batman (man, wasn't Batman: The Animated Series a flawless representation of the Batman noir mythology?). I think there's still a lot of untapped potential with his character that TDK didn't quite get a chance to explore. Let's just go full throttle with this Batman, like I said, make his world basically the live action equivalent of what Paul Dini and company did with TAS. Batman is basically a Sherlock Holmes meets James Bond as a ninja, set within this dark, gothic, film noir, hard boiled detective, James Cagney, Humphrey Bogart, Dick Tracy world. His solo films really need to capitalize and reflect that.



Gordon: Tough as nails, old school, good hearted, incorruptible, Year One all the way. Like Batman, older and hardened, cynical, but has yet to compromise. Perhaps there's a rift between him and Batman that needs to be mended. His absence from BvS was very noticable (though I suppose there was no need for his character, I'm assuming he is still Gotham City Police Commissioner). The classic hardened detective archetype, he has a good heart, but his work has caused a rift among his family. Let's say Barbara Gordon is or was Batgirl in this Universe, did that bring them closer together or push them further apart? Of course, that's not the life he wanted for his daughter. Perhaps he blames Batman for what happened to her (assuming The Killing Joke is somehow a part of this mythology), how does that affect their relationship? Batman was very isolated at the beginning of BvS, so he has some bridges to rebuild amongst his allies, hopefully we'll have a chance to explore all that. I'm so glad Gordon isn't deceased, like it appeared he was going to be in BvS for a little while (UNLESS, he is, and we only get to see J.K. Simmons in flashbacks...)



Sometimes, I kinda wish Scott Snyder had saved some of his stories, like Court Of Owls and Black Mirror for the big screen, so we could see them play out in the films. He's such a damn good cinematic writer, all of his stories play out like an epic film. I really wish they would get him and Brubaker as writers, at least in a story capacity. I think a variation of The Black Mirror could make a hell of a solo Nightwing film, incorporating Barbara and James Gordon, as well as his son. Brilliant story. And a variation of Court Of Owls could have made a great cinematic introduction into the Batman film world.

Um, dude, Nolan's Bane was the co-leader of a terrorist cell. Just like Bin Laden.