The NEW Wonder Woman Thread - How to Make a Tentpole Franchise

[TheComicbookKid]

Some plot points from Whedon's Wonder Woman.
http://www.avclub.com/content/interview/joss_whedon



VC: Can you say anything about the plot you had in mind for your version of the film?
JW: Well, I'll tell you one thing that sort of exemplifies my feelings. The idea was always that she's awesome, she's fabulous, she's strong, she's beautiful, she's well-intentioned, she thinks she's a great big hero, and it's Steve Trevor's job to go, "You don't understand human weakness, therefore you are not a hero, and you never will be until you're as helpless as we are. Fight through that, and then I'll be impressed. Until then, I'm just going to give you **** in a romantic-comedy kind of way."
There was talk about what city she was in and stuff, but by the end, she had never actually set foot in America. Wonder Woman isn't Spider-man or Batman. She doesn't have a town, she has a world. That was more interesting to me than a kind of contained, rote superhero franchise. I think ultimately the best way I can describe the kind of movie I was wanting to make—it was a fun adventure, not gritty, or insanely political, or anything like that. There was meat to the idea of, "Well, why aren't you guys better? What's up with that?" Her lack of understanding of how this world has come to this pass.
My favorite thing was the bracelets. I mean, the bracelets are cool, but how do I make that work? In the original comic book, they needed them because they fire guns on Paradise Island. I don't think I'm going there. So, I thought about it for a while, and I realized, "Oh, right, this is how this works." So in my version, she left Paradise Island with Steve, who was a world-relief guy bringing medical supplies to refugees, which is why he was so desperate to get off the island. She goes with him, and the moment she sets foot on land outside of Paradise Island, somebody shoots her in the chest. And it hurts. [Laughs.] She's just so appalled. And obviously, she heals within a few hours. She pulls the bullet out herself, and kind of looks at it like, "What the hell is this?" She heals, but she's appalled and humiliated, and the next time someone shoots at her, she puts her bracelet in the way because she's terrified of getting shot. It's just a reflexive thing. She has these bands that they all wear, just a piece of armor, and she puts it up. And then she gets good at it. By the end, it's kind of her thing, but it's because she got shot one time and didn't think that it was awesome. I think that is probably not the feeling the producers wanted to have. Though honestly, that could have been their favorite thing. I don't know, because when I asked Joel Silver, point blank, "Well, if they don't want what I'm doing, what do they want?" he said, "They don't know."
__________________

 

[Gotham]

any chance Whedon will end up directing? I think he was a good choice, but maybe his script was a little to much... but if he likes the new script...?

I'd love for Whedon to come back, but even he said he could barely get a handle on the character.

 

[The Major]

Some plot points from Whedon's Wonder Woman.
http://www.avclub.com/content/interview/joss_whedon



VC: Can you say anything about the plot you had in mind for your version of the film?
JW: Well, I'll tell you one thing that sort of exemplifies my feelings. The idea was always that she's awesome, she's fabulous, she's strong, she's beautiful, she's well-intentioned, she thinks she's a great big hero, and it's Steve Trevor's job to go, "You don't understand human weakness, therefore you are not a hero, and you never will be until you're as helpless as we are. Fight through that, and then I'll be impressed. Until then, I'm just going to give you **** in a romantic-comedy kind of way."
There was talk about what city she was in and stuff, but by the end, she had never actually set foot in America. Wonder Woman isn't Spider-man or Batman. She doesn't have a town, she has a world. That was more interesting to me than a kind of contained, rote superhero franchise. I think ultimately the best way I can describe the kind of movie I was wanting to make—it was a fun adventure, not gritty, or insanely political, or anything like that. There was meat to the idea of, "Well, why aren't you guys better? What's up with that?" Her lack of understanding of how this world has come to this pass.
My favorite thing was the bracelets. I mean, the bracelets are cool, but how do I make that work? In the original comic book, they needed them because they fire guns on Paradise Island. I don't think I'm going there. So, I thought about it for a while, and I realized, "Oh, right, this is how this works." So in my version, she left Paradise Island with Steve, who was a world-relief guy bringing medical supplies to refugees, which is why he was so desperate to get off the island. She goes with him, and the moment she sets foot on land outside of Paradise Island, somebody shoots her in the chest. And it hurts. [Laughs.] She's just so appalled. And obviously, she heals within a few hours. She pulls the bullet out herself, and kind of looks at it like, "What the hell is this?" She heals, but she's appalled and humiliated, and the next time someone shoots at her, she puts her bracelet in the way because she's terrified of getting shot. It's just a reflexive thing. She has these bands that they all wear, just a piece of armor, and she puts it up. And then she gets good at it. By the end, it's kind of her thing, but it's because she got shot one time and didn't think that it was awesome. I think that is probably not the feeling the producers wanted to have. Though honestly, that could have been their favorite thing. I don't know, because when I asked Joel Silver, point blank, "Well, if they don't want what I'm doing, what do they want?" he said, "They don't know."
__________________

It might not be exactly how I pictured WW on the big screen to be like, I'm a huge fan of the Perez run, but I'd love to see that movie anyway.

This seems like an origin film that he was doing. There's no reason Whedon or others (Tim Minear, David Fury, Jane Espenson, other writers for Mutant Enemy I'm forgetting, the BSG writing staff, Ron Moore) couldn't explore other elements to her mythos in sequels, too.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I think you have to do a origin film for WW. It's not exactly canon to the average person. "Didn't she live on an island or something" That's a paraphrase from someone I know.

The idolization of Lynda Carter would be another obstacle to overcome for whoever played a new version. WW is a tall order if it ever gets made.

 

[The Major]

Comicbookkid:

I have no problem with her first movie being an origin. I feel the same about any new hero that isn't Batman or Superman, unless the movie is supposed to be a revamped origin (Begins).

What I meant was that Whedon was allowed to get away with more stuff like WW with the bullets in his movie because she hadn't become a real hero until her "hero's journey" in the film was over. It's why I'm not to bothered by it in any case.

Besides, if the origin doesn't work they could wait a few years then do a Begins on WW. Problem solved if the public don't like Whedon's version.

 

[jmc]

It matters little now, Whedon's long since moved on to other projects, shame cause he's good a writing female characters.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Interview with Joel Silver:

Silver revealed that despite considerable interest in the films, we shouldn't expect to see them anytime soon, with both projects stuck at script level. He noted,"I've been working on those two for a long time and, well, it took me 20 years to get Speed Racer going -- and whilst I wouldn't want to spend that long again on a film -- I'm going to be struggling with these two for a while. I'm trying to get the right versions of the story."

He seemed especially pessimistic about Wonder Woman, with seemingly no progress made since he told us last year that it was on the back burner: "I'm not sure if it will happen; I don't know yet. I mean I have the rights to it for a while, but I just hope that one day I can find a way to make it."

 

[The Major]

Silver not only needs to make WW his top priority but he needs to talk to people who know the character better then he does. Rucka and Perez would be a good start.

If he hasn't been able to make a good WW film in 20 years why bother keep holding the rights for another 20? After all this time he still hasn't got a clear idea of how to do anything with it there's no guarantee he'll come up with an epiphany with how to do it in the next few years. Certainly not if he hasn't read a lot of comics about her of watched shows she's appeared in. May as well sell it to someone else who actually knows what to do with the franchise.

If it's true that Silver holds the cartoon rights for WW he should allow that to be made at the minimum. A cartoon couldn't hurt a movie especially if one isnt released once it airs. It would keep the WW brand on the public's consciousness until the film is released. He should give it to Bruce Timm and Paul Dini to create. They've already proven they can make DC franchises become huge hits with animation. Perhaps he could even make WW animated films like Justice League: New Frontier and/or CGI films like The Incredibles. They could even give him some ideas for the movie itself.

 

[jmc]

I still think even with Silver's latest comments we're at best 3-4 years away from a WW film seeing the light of day. To be fair to Silver I don't totally blame him for the stop/start way the film has proceeded, the character is a harder one to conceptualise onto film than some of the other DC characters, and given the recent spate of other female action heroine films being poorly written and executed, I can understand a cautious approach.

 

[The Major]

I still think even with Silver's latest comments we're at best 3-4 years away from a WW film seeing the light of day.

That's if we're lucky.

I'd say we'd see it in ten years minimum at the rate it's going.

Every time we get some progress something happens and then it goes back to square one. Its practically going in circles with no end in sight.

To be fair to Silver I don't totally blame him for the stop/start way the film has proceeded, the character is a harder one to conceptualise onto film than some of the other DC characters,

Which means it needs more attention, not less.

It also needs a producer who has a clear idea on what the character is and how they see the franchise. Silver hasn't even got that down yet. He's had it for several years already and those basic concepts still elude him. Thats why I keep saying he should talk to people who actually know the character because it's obvious he doesn't know what to do.

We haven't even got WW solo cartoons or animated films or tv shows during that time. Nothing.

We're lucky she was in JLU and JL:NF or she wouldn't even be in any media projects the last few years.

The character is difficult to translate to live action but there needs to be serious effort to go forward. You don't get that putting on the back-burner and rejecting scripts because he doesn't like the ideas but doesn't know the franchise enough to give direction for what he wants so it can get passed the script stage.

WW's a franchise that could easily equal Superman's popularity yet it can't even get a solo cartoon or a single live action film completed in all the years he's had the rights.

He's even got a potential actress interested in the role that he likes IIRC in Jessica Biel. She said she doesn't want to be WW in JL since its an ensemble while with a solo WW film she'd have the spotlight to herself. That's the hardest role in the franchise already take care of.

and given the recent spate of other female action heroine films being poorly written and executed, I can understand a cautious approach.

That doesn't explain why WW has basically disappeared from WB's media except in ensemble cartoons. The last time WW had a solo project focused on her was 30 years ago!

Of course he should be cautious and want a good script with everything in film to work but Silver isn't making it a top priority as it should be. It comes across like an after thought not a project which he wants to create to the best of his ability.

Silver could have even tried to get a live action tv show for WW in the vein of Smallville for her but that never happened, either.

All that potential gone with nothing to show for it.

 

[CaptainCanada]

He's even got a potential actress interested in the role that he likes IIRC in Jessica Biel. She said she doesn't want to be WW in JL since its an ensemble while with a solo WW film she'd have the spotlight to herself. That's the hardest role in the franchise already take care of.

Yeah right. Keep her far, far away from this property.

That doesn't explain why WW has basically disappeared from WB's media except in ensemble cartoons.

Because, protestations to the contrary aside, they have no faith in the character to sell tickets/ratings/whatevers; though, with the current era of superhero movies, she perhaps shouldn't take it too personally, given that it's been 10 years since Blade and 8 years since X-Men and Superman and Batman are the only big guns to appear on screen (once apiece, even), despite DC/WB having a passel of big properties that should be prime film material.

 

[The Major]

Yeah right. Keep her far, far away from this property.

I'm not saying she's perfect. But she's an option Silver wanted. With her on board there is no reason the film can't go forward.

A high profile actress like Biel could give the project the kick in the pants it needs to get moving again.

Because, protestations to the contrary aside, they have no faith in the character to sell tickets/ratings/whatevers;

If Silver has no faith in the franchise why bother keeping the rights at all?

There is much more potential he could do with the character then making a film with it, too. I've already explained options in a previous post.

WW's not going to make Silver money by making the film "tabled" and doing nothing on any other front with it.

I'm certain WB gets a hefty profit from any WW merchandise, which I bet they make a lot of, and her appearances in animated projects like JLU mean she can still get the public to show up.

How's the Lynda Carter tv show dvd's selling? Are they doing well? That's another WW project which benefits WB greatly.

though, with the current era of superhero movies, she perhaps shouldn't take it too personally,

Even the mediocre and crappy super-hero movies do fairly well.

Ghost Rider, DD (it did well enough to get a spin-off), V for Vendetta, the FF films, X-men 3, Blade: Trinity, Hellboy all did well at the box office.

given that it's been 10 years since Blade and 8 years since X-Men

The Blade and X-men previous movies reputations were strong enough to make their crappy third sequels get major money. Both franchises were under the public's radar until the first films appeared, especially with Blade. Even FF and its sequel got tonnes of money back despite the public hating it. Not as much as the studio wanted, but enough to stay interested in future movies.

FF has paved the way for a spin-off with SS and X-men has at least one spin-off (Wolverine) being made.

That wouldn't happen if Fox wasn't sure both franchises would get them truckloads of money.

and Superman and Batman are the only big guns to appear on screen (once apiece, even), despite DC/WB having a passel of big properties that should be prime film material.

Yup.

 

[CaptainCanada]

What I said was that it's been 8-10 years since the current superhero boom started, and DC has managed two movies (with a sequel due in a month or so) starring the two characters who always get films and movies, so WW's film going nowhere isn't that surprising since GL, Flash, etc. aren't having much better luck.

 

[GL1]

Dude, no wonder the execs didn't want Whedon's Wonder Woman... it was actually different and had tons of potential for a new type of heroine... that kind of endearing naivete is one trope that hasn't been worn out in the superhero vein. The badass fighting chick the execs are always looking for would have been stale, just another popcorn thing...

Man... I wish they had made that movie.

 

[superion]

WW's a franchise that could easily equal Superman's popularity yet it can't even get a solo cartoon or a single live action film completed in all the years he's had the rights.

No way is Wonder Women the equal of Superman. Having said that they should just go ahead with a Wonder Women project even if it is not perfect. If it doesn't succeed you can always go back and try again to correct the mistakes.

The Hulk is a perfect example. The first one didn't do great but they are coming back with a second one with a better villain and more action. From the trailers it looks like a improvement though we will have to see when it premieres in June if it actually is better. But I don't see how sitting around with this project for 5-10 years accomplishes anything and I predict Silver's Speed Racer will bomb so he can forget about a sequel to it and start work on something else.

 

[dnno1]

No way is Wonder Women the equal of Superman. Having said that they should just go ahead with a Wonder Women project even if it is not perfect. If it doesn't succeed you can always go back and try again to correct the mistakes.

The Hulk is a perfect example. The first one didn't do great but they are coming back with a second one with a better villain and more action. From the trailers it looks like a improvement though we will have to see when it premieres in June if it actually is better. But I don't see how sitting around with this project for 5-10 years accomplishes anything and I predict Silver's Speed Racer will bomb so he can forget about a sequel to it and start work on something else.

If a Wonder Woman film ever flopped, it would go the way of all the other female super heroine films. The Hulk is only surviving because he is a marvel franchise character and they wanted it to succeed for the sake of their own business and their long range goal (an ensemble Avengers film). I don't think you can equate Wonder Woman to the Hulk.

 

[WonderWitch]

If a Wonder Woman film ever flopped, it would go the way of all the other female super heroine films. The Hulk is only surviving because he is a marvel franchise character and they wanted it to succeed for the sake of their own business and their long range goal (an ensemble Avengers film). I don't think you can equate Wonder Woman to the Hulk.

i still think remaking the hulk is ridiculous. i still don't understand why. what a waste. i don't see why they'd need to remake a solo movie in order for the ensemble movie to move forward. (now a movie that would make sense remaking is superman returns, not because it was bad or anything, but because it changed the plot so much and got so offtrack i can see it screwing with potential future movies.)

also:
Wonder Woman > Hulk
Wonder Woman = Superman

silver needs to get a move on!

also, not related but i need to get my a$$ to the theater to see ironman, if only to be able to discuss it on these boards.... however some idiot on another board did not use spoilers and spoiled the 'surprise' in the ending, gahhhhhhh!

 

[GL1]

While the Aftercredits thing in Iron Man was cool, I don't think that 'ruins' the movie in any way. Another spoiler would be: The bad guy loses.

Wonder Woman does not have Superman's potential. Of course, a great WW movie could totally outdo Superman Returns, in quality but Superman has fanboys, ranging from ages 5-75. Wonder Woman, not so much. Everyone in the Western World, and many outside, seem to know what Superman stands for. Wonder Woman, not so much.

I disagree on dnno1's analysis. I believe the Hulk is surviving because he has fanboys in Marvel editorial, if not in Hollywood. Guys who are into comics are making decisions, and thus, the Hulk survives.

Wonder Woman doesn't really have a lot of fanboys... or fangirls for that matter. She's treated somewhat contemptuously on a regular basis. If an effort with her fails, she gets canned, cuz, honestly, no one really likes Wonder Woman, they just like the idea of a perfect woman, and Wondy is a great thing to project that onto.

Remaking the Hulk is pretty silly, but they setup they have actually does have the potential to beat out Ang Lee's Hulk, which I kinda liked. Perhaps a bit too smart for its own good... but it grew on me very quickly. Except the soundtrack... ugh.

 

[The Major]

GL1:

WW has amazing potential.

Despite being a decades old icon, just like Batman and Superman, she is still well known today with built in fan bases beyond what either of the Bat or the Krytonian can bring in. All without WB using their resources as much in the media like they have with those two icons.

The only reason she doesn't have either of those two's popularity today is due to under exposure, which some good films and some solo projects would take care of. WB continues not to make her a priority is not the franchises fault, that's WB's. They just don't see the potential or worse, they do but since it wouldn't be easy they'll just ignore it to focus on Batman and Superman.

She doesn't even have the exposure in entertainment they do yet she still continues to be popular to the public, including people who don't even read her comics.

You think Batman was always this well known by the public? It took many decades of solo tv shows, cartoons and movies to do that. The same treatment of WW, or any comic franchise, would make her just as popular.

WW's treated badly by the general public because they have no reason not to treat her with the proper respect. Why should they when WB doesn't give them any reason not to? JLU happened but it hasn't penetrated the nation's psyche of her like Super Friends and Carter's WW have. WB just needs to give them a live action worthy enough to make her relevant again.

If it flops WW's franchise shouldn't get canned. Thats another problem that WB has. They're willing to throw out a franchise because they didn't get it right the first time. Never mind they've screwed up Batman from time to time yet he still continues to sell. Difference is Batman has WB's faith so it can survive when any comic franchise, especially a high profile one like WW, can be revived in a few years time. Giving her crappy entertainment products doesn't do anyone any good, either. That just makes it easy for the project to tank when the problem wouldn't really be the concept just the execution. A franchise won't be successful unless they do their best with it.

 

[WonderWitch]

While the Aftercredits thing in Iron Man was cool, I don't think that 'ruins' the movie in any way. Another spoiler would be: The bad guy loses.

Wonder Woman does not have Superman's potential. Of course, a great WW movie could totally outdo Superman Returns, in quality but Superman has fanboys, ranging from ages 5-75. Wonder Woman, not so much. Everyone in the Western World, and many outside, seem to know what Superman stands for. Wonder Woman, not so much.

I disagree on dnno1's analysis. I believe the Hulk is surviving because he has fanboys in Marvel editorial, if not in Hollywood. Guys who are into comics are making decisions, and thus, the Hulk survives.

Wonder Woman doesn't really have a lot of fanboys... or fangirls for that matter. She's treated somewhat contemptuously on a regular basis. If an effort with her fails, she gets canned, cuz, honestly, no one really likes Wonder Woman, they just like the idea of a perfect woman, and Wondy is a great thing to project that onto.

Remaking the Hulk is pretty silly, but they setup they have actually does have the potential to beat out Ang Lee's Hulk, which I kinda liked. Perhaps a bit too smart for its own good... but it grew on me very quickly. Except the soundtrack... ugh.

i can agree with much of what you say, but wonder woman has far more worldwide clout than you give her credit for. and the above statement in bold is just wrong. many people like wonder woman, many people love her, both men and women all over the world. with the logic you used one could say no one really likes superman, they only like the idea of a perfect man. she may not be as recognizable as superman, but i'm pretty sure she's damn close. and i think that's pretty impressive, considering how little we see of her (and other female superheros) compared to superman and her other male counterparts. imagine if more time was dedicated to her franchise like it has been for other superhero franchises. i think wonder woman would do very well. i think little girls would like a female superhero to look up to, just as the boys have male superheros. other than disney's "kim possible" i can't really think of another saturday morning "superhero" (and i use that loosely here) cartoon with a female lead.

now i'm sorry if this turned into a bit of a feminist rant, but really, women are not treated as eqauls in the entertainment industry, or even in everyday life, which can be evidenced by the character of wonder woman's poor treatment compared to male characters. she has been put on the back burner while all these "dick flicks" (male answer to "chick flicks") are being made. now, as a girl, i do love male driven action movies, but i'd love to see good superheroine movie's as well! is it to much to ask for equal play (i guess it may be, as we still can't even get equal pay, but i digress...) ?

 

[GL1]

Riiiiise from the depthsah!!!!!!

GL1:

WW has amazing potential.

Despite being a decades old icon, just like Batman and Superman, she is still well known today with built in fan bases beyond what either of the Bat or the Krytonian can bring in. All without WB using their resources as much in the media like they have with those two icons.

The only reason she doesn't have either of those two's popularity today is due to under exposure, which some good films and some solo projects would take care of. WB continues not to make her a priority is not the franchises fault, that's WB's. They just don't see the potential or worse, they do but since it wouldn't be easy they'll just ignore it to focus on Batman and Superman.

She doesn't even have the exposure in entertainment they do yet she still continues to be popular to the public, including people who don't even read her comics.

You think Batman was always this well known by the public? It took many decades of solo tv shows, cartoons and movies to do that. The same treatment of WW, or any comic franchise, would make her just as popular.

WW's treated badly by the general public because they have no reason not to treat her with the proper respect. Why should they when WB doesn't give them any reason not to? JLU happened but it hasn't penetrated the nation's psyche of her like Super Friends and Carter's WW have. WB just needs to give them a live action worthy enough to make her relevant again.

If it flops WW's franchise shouldn't get canned. Thats another problem that WB has. They're willing to throw out a franchise because they didn't get it right the first time. Never mind they've screwed up Batman from time to time yet he still continues to sell. Difference is Batman has WB's faith so it can survive when any comic franchise, especially a high profile one like WW, can be revived in a few years time. Giving her crappy entertainment products doesn't do anyone any good, either. That just makes it easy for the project to tank when the problem wouldn't really be the concept just the execution. A franchise won't be successful unless they do their best with it.

I agree with your sentiments... though I'm not sure what built in fanbases you're talking about. Bottom line, despite her epic potential, Wonder Woman is not as fully realized as a character in the comics and cannot 'catch up' to Batman and Superman.

Perhaps this is possible and I just do not see it, but I'm used to seeing stuff others cannot, and I don't see it. What was the last really good Wonder Woman mini? Hiketa? Has she even had a year one?

WB is simply adding insult to DC's own injury.

i can agree with much of what you say, but wonder woman has far more worldwide clout than you give her credit for. and the above statement in bold is just wrong. many people like wonder woman, many people love her, both men and women all over the world. with the logic you used one could say no one really likes superman, they only like the idea of a perfect man. she may not be as recognizable as superman, but i'm pretty sure she's damn close. and i think that's pretty impressive, considering how little we see of her (and other female superheros) compared to superman and her other male counterparts. imagine if more time was dedicated to her franchise like it has been for other superhero franchises. i think wonder woman would do very well. i think little girls would like a female superhero to look up to, just as the boys have male superheros. other than disney's "kim possible" i can't really think of another saturday morning "superhero" (and i use that loosely here) cartoon with a female lead.

now i'm sorry if this turned into a bit of a feminist rant, but really, women are not treated as eqauls in the entertainment industry, or even in everyday life, which can be evidenced by the character of wonder woman's poor treatment compared to male characters. she has been put on the back burner while all these "dick flicks" (male answer to "chick flicks") are being made. now, as a girl, i do love male driven action movies, but i'd love to see good superheroine movie's as well! is it to much to ask for equal play (i guess it may be, as we still can't even get equal pay, but i digress...) ?

I would actually make that argument for Superman. A lot of 'fans' seem to have little care for the character, and only for the feats, in both cases. But perhaps that's unfair generalization. And while I may have overstated my point (Yes, I was wrong, people do like wonder woman, plenty of them, myself included), she's not in the same league as Superman and Batman... not really.

I've found women to be treated superior to men in many cases, and in others inferior. I find both of these to be equally odious, and would prefer equality.

I think part of it is man's incomplete conception of woman. Many of the writers and editors (I'm going back to the comics, where Wondy is often given lipservice instead of real full character development, imho), really don't know how a queen fits into their monarchy. So a lot of time she's there out of tradition, or to look good. But as far as writing a compelling Wonder Woman? It's rarely done. There have been good stories, no doubt, but it is rare to put a WW anything on a top ten anything.

Even Whedon, touted as a male feminist couldn't do much with Wonder Woman beyond making her an extreme fish out of water, so confused at how 'backwards' Man's world is. IMho... Wonder Woman needs to be a solid story about a relateable woman with badass action scenes thrown in... after all, imho, that's what a lot of these so called "dick flicks" are becoming... ((I remember my friend and I wanted to kill something when 007 started talking about his "armah" and how its been "Stripped from him." ))

So, yeah... Wonder Woman is not the bottom of the barrel... but there are very concrete reasons that she does not have the same appeal, recognizability, popularity, development and exposure as Batman and Superman. These are reasons that cannot be overcome with one film.

But one film could be a very nice start. And being 'second' to Batman and Superman really isn't such a bad place to be at anyway.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Has she even had a year one?

"Gods and Mortals"; like Superman, she got a reboot in 1987, and the result is so well-regarded that no one has ever felt the need to revisit it. They couldn't top it.

 

[The Major]

I agree with your sentiments... though I'm not sure what built in fanbases you're talking about.

The gay/lesbians, women, young girls. She could appeal to men if they use a good version.

Bottom line, despite her epic potential, Wonder Woman is not as fully realized as a character in the comics and

The comics have done amazingly well in getting WW to her potential. There have been a few hiccups for time to time, but that happens with all mainstream comic series.

You have consider DC's relationship with the franchise, too. They don't exactly give WW the same respect that Superman or Batman have. She is making headway in the last few months with Trinity and Gail Simone having control of the character.

cannot 'catch up' to Batman and Superman.

Shes not going to close that gap by WB not doing any good solo movies or cartoons with her, either.

Perhaps this is possible and I just do not see it, but I'm used to seeing stuff others cannot, and I don't see it.

What do you know about the character/franchise? What have you seen her in? What don't you like about her?

What was the last really good Wonder Woman mini? Hiketa?

Haven't read that.

You don't need to go to her mini-series to get a good WW story. You can use the ongoing series.

Has she even had a year one?

Wonder Woman: Gods & Mortals.

http://www.amazon.com/Wonder-Woman-...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217108078&sr=8-1

WB is simply adding insult to DC's own injury.

Agreed.

I would actually make that argument for Superman. A lot of 'fans' seem to have little care for the character, and only for the feats, in both cases.
But perhaps that's unfair generalization.

That's not an exception with Superman. Some fans can be like that.

And while I may have overstated my point (Yes, I was wrong, people do like wonder woman, plenty of them, myself included), she's not in the same league as Superman and Batman... not really.

Agreed.

She is much furthur away from them then she should be, though. WB has not tapped her potential anywhere near enough. If they had managed to do this she'd be much closer in popularity IMO.

I've found women to be treated superior to men in many cases, and in others inferior. I find both of these to be equally odious, and would prefer equality.

Which WW stories are you talking abut here?

I think part of it is man's incomplete conception of woman. Many of the writers and editors (I'm going back to the comics, where Wondy is often given lipservice instead of real full character development, imho), really don't know how a queen fits into their monarchy. So a lot of time she's there out of tradition, or to look good. But as far as writing a compelling Wonder Woman? It's rarely done. There have been good stories, no doubt, but it is rare to put a WW anything on a top ten anything.

It is rarely done. WW is a tough character to write.

I've read WW for a while but there are still much I haven't. I'm sure those stories can answer you questions. You'd need a fan who knows WW better then me, though.

Those things can be added with more detail in movies or cartoons, too. This isn't unusual with adaptions. The film makers need to know the specifics from the comics before they can add to that IMO.

Even Whedon, touted as a male feminist couldn't do much with Wonder Woman beyond making her an extreme fish out of water, so confused at how 'backwards' Man's world is.

Some characters people just don't "get". It happens in entertainment.

His version was a very interesting take on the franchise. I'd have liked to have seen where that went. It certainly would have been a relevant update from Linda Carter.

IMho... Wonder Woman needs to be a solid story about a relateable woman with badass action scenes thrown in... after all, imho, that's what a lot of these so called "dick flicks" are becoming...

Agreed.

((I remember my friend and I wanted to kill something when 007 started talking about his "armah" and how its been "Stripped from him." ))

I'm not sure what you mean with this sentence.

So, yeah... Wonder Woman is not the bottom of the barrel... but there are very concrete reasons that she does not have the same appeal, recognizability, popularity, development and exposure as Batman and Superman.

While she does have some disadvantages I do think you're underestimating her. Sure, she isn't Superman or Batman but like most other DC super-heroes she's not the only one WB/DC aren't giving their maximum amount of respect or backing. Its a catch-22. How are these franchises going to be popular without being in high profile projects which can them allow them to get popular in?

These are reasons that cannot be overcome with one film.

No, it can't.

The WW franchise needs people who understand it, care for it and have the proper skills to bring it to its potential. Just like any other comic adaption, really.

But one film could be a very nice start. And being 'second' to Batman and Superman really isn't such a bad place to be at anyway.

Agreed.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

Oh man, the trailer for the upcoming Wonder Woman animated DTV by Bruce Timm looks great (as if there was any doubt).

Watch that trailer. Now imagine that in live action. Compare it to the crappy trailers for movies like CINO and Ultraviolet. THAT is how a big budget Wonder Woman tentpole should be marketed: an epic adventure movie, NOT a phony, overly-stylized "girl power" flick.