The Official Suicide Squad Rotten Tomatoes Thread - Part 1

The claim that critics are biased against WB/DC isn't worth a counter-argument.

Not "critics"; "some critics". You don't think Faraci is biased, for example? He is 100% unbiased, right? :woot:

Every argument is worth a counter-argument. Even the worst argument of them all. And you shouldn't shy away from it. Just prove me wrong and that's it. Just prove me that there's absolutely no bias among critics. Prove me that they're all fair.

And if you think it isn't worth a counter-argument, maybe mockery shouldn't be your next choice. You aren't forced to say anything. You can simply just not participate.
 
Not "critics"; "some critics". You don't think Faraci is biased, for example? He is 100% unbiased, right? :woot:

Every argument is worth a counter-argument. Even the worst argument of them all. And you shouldn't shy away from it. Just prove me wrong and that's it. Just prove me that there's absolutely no bias among critics. Prove me that they're all fair.

And if you think it isn't worth a counter-argument, maybe mockery shouldn't be your next choice. You aren't forced to say anything. You can simply just not participate.

Your DC/WB bias really is not worth a counter argument. The fact that the TDK trilogy was able to score very highly with the critics three times in a row makes this bias claim look like nothing but deluded feeble fanboy excuses. Which is just what it is. You're the one claiming bias, so the onus is on you, not us who don't believe it, to provide proof of this bias.
 
If you're a critic, why would i wanna know about your personal preferences? Why would i care if to you the massive destruction of a city is boring? Or if you don't like movies that have no jokes. Or if a lot of blood is bad to you. I don't care. You're just another person. Your personal tastes are meaningless to me. If i'm reading your review is because i want a more technical and knowledgeble assessment of the characteristics of the movie. What makes it good? What makes it bad? Explain it to me so i can objectively understand. Tell me something about the movie that the average viewer can't tell me. If you're being paid for it, that's the least you could do.

All movies have flaws. Just don't ignore the flaws of one movie and then go through all the trouble of pointing out everything that's wrong with another. You might even love Texas Chainsaw Massacre 4 to death, for whatever reason. That's your problem. I want an objective and unbiased dissection of the movie's qualities and flaws. Just tell me what's good and what's bad about it so i can decide if it's worth the watch or not. Don't hide the flaws from me just because you happened to enjoy it. Be critical of it. That's your job.

Fair enough, and I agree with the sentiment, but what's this got to do with RT?
 
Not "critics"; "some critics". You don't think Faraci is biased, for example? He is 100% unbiased, right? :woot:

You mean the guy that gave SS a fresh review? Right.

Every argument is worth a counter-argument. Even the worst argument of them all. And you shouldn't shy away from it. Just prove me wrong and that's it. Just prove me that there's absolutely no bias among critics. Prove me that they're all fair.

And if you think it isn't worth a counter-argument, maybe mockery shouldn't be your next choice. You aren't forced to say anything. You can simply just not participate.

If you have any evidence beyond "critic's taste do not match up with mine, therefore there must be a bias", I'm willing to listen, but I'm willing to bet that you do not.
 
What makes you think the opinions of these guys are affecting the movie in any significant way? It didn't stop the movie from having a huge opening, in spite of the bad reviews. Ditto for BvS. People saw the movie, didn't care to go re-watch it. That's why box office drops. Poor re-watch factor to bring bums back into seats. If audiences like a movie, they'll go and watch it again.

Maybe the fact that media can affect people's perceptions and that site is visited by millions of people.

A movie having a huge opening can be due to several other factors.

Like: People who don't care about, or don't read reviews; Big fans of the genre; People that were already very excited to watch the movie and are going to watch it anyway.

You see, whether you like it or not, these groups of people actually exist, and they contribute to big openings.

Now, in order for a movie to have great legs i would assume it also needs fresh meat and casual viewers. People who might not be big fans of the genre, but if they read or hear enough good things about the movie they might go watch it in the third or second week.

If critics had the power to adversely affect box office with their bad reviews then the likes of Transformers wouldn't be able to keep pulling in billions.

The fact the movie made a lot of money doesn't prove it wouldn't have made even more money if reviews had been positive. BvS made good money too. It just didn't make as much as it could have made.

I can't even entertain the idea of the media having no impact on people's behaviour, so i'm not even gonna enable your train of thought any further if you insist in denying it, when this is a subject that has been well documented and discussed over the decades. You just have to google it so you can learn about the influence of media on people.

Why should you wish to see anything on RT if you claim, and I quote 'Yes, it shouldn't matter what critics prefer. Their preferences aren't my business.

Because not every form of criticism should be based on personal preferences. You can tell me, and explain me why, for example, a story is or not coherent without injecting your personal preferences in the review. I don't need to read about how light you like your movies. Just be objective.

See this is not the same thing. You've no reason to want the critics reviews to be the way you want if it doesn't matter to you what they think


I enjoy reading good, unbiased reviews, even though they're rare. If they were done right, maybe they could be helpful to me. In their current state, they don't matter. Doesn't mean they couldn't matter if they were done right.
 
If you're a critic, why would i wanna know about your personal preferences? Why would i care if to you the massive destruction of a city is boring? Or if you don't like movies that have no jokes. Or if a lot of blood is bad to you. I don't care. You're just another person. Your personal tastes are meaningless to me. If i'm reading your review is because i want a more technical and knowledgeble assessment of the characteristics of the movie. What makes it good? What makes it bad? Explain it to me so i can objectively understand. Tell me something about the movie that the average viewer can't tell me. If you're being paid for it, that's the least you could do.

All movies have flaws. Just don't ignore the flaws of one movie and then go through all the trouble of pointing out everything that's wrong with another. You might even love Texas Chainsaw Massacre 4 to death, for whatever reason. That's your problem. I want an objective and unbiased dissection of the movie's qualities and flaws. Just tell me what's good and what's bad about it so i can decide if it's worth the watch or not. Don't hide the flaws from me just because you happened to enjoy it. Be critical of it. That's your job.

that's film analysis and you won't get that in reviews.
 
You mean the guy that gave SS a fresh review? Right.



If you have any evidence beyond "critic's taste do not match up with mine, therefore there must be a bias", I'm willing to listen, but I'm willing to bet that you do not.

I like how you enjoy asking for evidence but you provide none for what you claim.

Yes, when i see movies that are absolute garbage, and that most people consider absolute garbage, getting at least decent reviews, that's all the evidence i need that they're very inconsistent. When i see the flaws from certain movies being completely ignored and the flaws from others being highlighted, that's all the evidence i need they're inconsistent. When at least 70% of the people i know tell me they enjoyed Suicide Squad, that's all the evidence i need that critics score doesn't represent the true value of the movie.

You see, this is not a courthouse. My conclusions only have to be relevant to me. This is about why i choose not to take them very seriously. If you like the job they're doing and believe their reviews are fair and unbiased, then good for you. I'm not trying to convince you to not pay attention to what they say. I'm simply stating why i don't follow their recommendations.


As far as Faraci goes: The same guy who gave it a half assed fresh rating but still said it is a bad movie and it's only fresh because there is no mixed option? That doesn't prove he isn't biased towards Marvel. Being biased towards Marvel doesn't equal to disliking everything that comes from DC. It only means you have double standards and a much easier time giving a positive review to Marvel. That's all it means.
 
Maybe the fact that media can affect people's perceptions and that site is visited by millions of people.

A movie having a huge opening can be due to several other factors.

Like: People who don't care about, or don't read reviews; Big fans of the genre; People that were already very excited to watch the movie and are going to watch it anyway.

You see, whether you like it or not, these groups of people actually exist, and they contribute to big openings.

Now, in order for a movie to have great legs i would assume it also needs fresh meat and casual viewers. People who might not be big fans of the genre, but if they read or hear enough good things about the movie they might go watch it in the third or second week.

In no way does the critical consensus have enough of an effect to hurt the box office in any significant way. The fact that the likes of brainless CGI fests can take over a billion, but take a hammering from the critics repeatedly proves this.

If the fans of the genre are significant contributors to the big openings, then why doesn't every CBM that isn't panned by the critics get a huge opening like this and BvS?

You assume wrong. For a movie to have great legs people have to actually enjoy it. Great box office is made of repeated viewings. The ability to draw bums back into seats.

The fact the movie made a lot of money doesn't prove it wouldn't have made even more money if reviews had been positive. BvS made good money too. It just didn't make as much as it could have made.

You think the fact BvS, a movie that was released in March, with no other movie competition at the time, featuring two of the biggest superhero icons ever, and you think it didn't hit the billion because of the critics. Nothing do with the actual low quality of the movie that so many people complained about.

No of course not. That's too logical. I love how you're offering up proof to back up this absurd theory.

I can't even entertain the idea of the media having no impact on people's behaviour, so i'm not even gonna enable your train of thought any further if you insist in denying it, when this is a subject that has been well documented and discussed over the decades. You just have to google it so you can learn about the influence of media on people.

You also can't seem to entertain many examples of panned movies making huge money either, because it shoots down your silly baseless theory.

Because not every form of criticism should be based on personal preferences. You can tell me, and explain me why, for example, a story is or not coherent without injecting your personal preferences in the review. I don't need to read about how light you like your movies. Just be objective.

Again, why do you care what the reviews should or should not be if you claim you don't care what these critics think? You're contradicting yourself.

I enjoy reading good, unbiased reviews, even though they're rare. If they were done right, maybe they could be helpful to me. In their current state, they don't matter. Doesn't mean they couldn't matter if they were done right.

You can get by and go and judge a movie for yourself. You don't care what critics think, or so you claim, so all this is a non issue. Yet you are here arguing it as though it is.

You again are proving the point that those who don't claim RT matters are those who spend the most time discussing it. Another contradiction.

Is this Panthro again?

You mean Pantera? Has the all the signs I'll say that.
 
Fair enough, and I agree with the sentiment, but what's this got to do with RT?

Am i speaking Cantonese?

RT's critics often recommend(or not) movies based on dubius critera. If you're being harsher on a movie than you would otherwise be just because it's darker and more violent than you usually like your comic books to be, then you're not being helpful to the visitors of the site, who are simply looking to know if the movie is worth watching or not, not if the movie is your personal type of movie.
 
I like how you enjoy asking for evidence but you provide none for what you claim.

What evidence are you expecting him to produce? He says there is no bias, so how do you show proof of something that doesn't exist? You are the one claiming the existence of a bias here, so the onus is on you to produce proof of it. So far you've given nothing but half baked theories.
 
I like how you enjoy asking for evidence but you provide none for what you claim.

You're claiming that a sizable amount of professional film critics harbor an inexplicable bias against the studio that produced the most successful superhero trilogy of all time. The burden of proof is on you.

Yes, when i see movies that are absolute garbage, and that most people consider absolute garbage, getting at least decent reviews, that's all the evidence i need that they're very inconsistent. When i see the flaws from certain movies being completely ignored and the flaws from others being highlighted, that's all the evidence i need they're inconsistent. When at least 70% of the people i know tell me they enjoyed Suicide Squad, that's all the evidence i need that critics score doesn't represent the true value of the movie.

You see, this is not a courthouse. My conclusions only have to be relevant to me. This is about why i choose not to take them very seriously. If you like the job they're doing and believe their reviews are fair and unbiased, then good for you. I'm not trying to convince you to not pay attention to what they say. I'm simply stating why i don't follow their recommendations.


As far as Faraci goes: The same guy who gave it a half assed fresh rating but still said it is a bad movie and it's only fresh because there is no mixed option? That doesn't prove he isn't biased towards Marvel. Being biased towards Marvel doesn't equal to disliking everything that comes from DC. It only means you have double standards and a much easier time giving a positive review to Marvel. That's all it means.

So you don't have any evidence or even a convincing argument beyond "this is how I feel". Thanks for confirming my suspicions.
 
Am i speaking Cantonese?

RT's critics often recommend(or not) movies based on dubius critera. If you're being harsher on a movie than you would otherwise be just because it's darker and more violent than you usually like your comic books to be, then you're not being helpful to the visitors of the site, who are simply looking to know if the movie is worth watching or not, not if the movie is your personal type of movie.

I speak Cantonese so you obviously aren't :o

I see, so you're asking for RT to refine their selection criteria for approved critics. You could have said that in the first place.
 
In no way does the critical consensus have enough of an effect to hurt the box office in any significant way. The fact that the likes of brainless CGI fests can take over a billion, but take a hammering from the critics repeatedly proves this.

It seems you're still assuming the Transformers movies couldn't have made even more money if the reviews would have been better. Transformers is an appealing concept. It appeals to kids, families, people who grew up with the toys and the cartoons, car fanatics, the "brainless" younger audience who just want something cool, colorful and loud to watch. It's an easy concept to sell. Still, i don't see any evidence that it couldn't have done even better than what it did.

If you think that the critical consensus that's displayed on a website that receivies millions and millions of views can't affect the BO...well...i don't know what to tell you. I just don't agree with you.

You think the fact BvS, a movie that was released in March, with no other movie competition at the time, featuring two of the biggest superhero icons ever, and you think it didn't hit the billion because of the critics. Nothing do with the actual low quality of the movie that so many people complained about.

No of course not. That's too logical. I love how you're offering up proof to back up this absurd theory.

No, i don't think that. You think that i think that, but i don't. I think BvS's poor performance was due to several factors. You're free to pick just one and run with it, if it better fits your agenda. I do think that the bad critical reception had an impact. I don't think it was the sole reason why the movie underperformed.

You also can't seem to entertain many examples of panned movies making huge money either, because it shoots down your silly baseless theory.

You can't seem to understand the fact that making a lot of money isn't equal to making as much money as it could, or it would, with better reviews. I'm not denying "bad" movies can make money.

Again, why do you care what the reviews should or should not be if you claim you don't care what these critics think? You're contradicting yourself.

You can get by and go and judge a movie for yourself. You don't care what critics think, or so you claim, so all this is a non issue. Yet you are here arguing it as though it is.

You again are proving the point that those who don't claim RT matters are those who spend the most time discussing it. Another contradiction.

For the third time( i think):

I don't care = I'm not gonna base my decisions on their recommendations. I'm not saying that i wouldn't like to be able to read well written criticism. But as it currently is, i don't follow their recommendations on movies. But i'm interested in everything that's related to movies, so i like to follow a movie's critical response.

Did you understand it this time, or are you going to continue asking me "why do you care?." It's not important why i care, so don't get too hung up on it.
 
You're claiming that a sizable amount of professional film critics harbor an inexplicable bias against the studio that produced the most successful superhero trilogy of all time. The burden of proof is on you.

I'm saying that, in my opinion, there's a lack of consistency in the way they review movies. I'm also saying i've seen signs of bias more than once, so i wouldn't be surprised if more critics were biased. You're simply distorting my statements.

So you don't have any evidence or even a convincing argument beyond "this is how I feel". Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

You're right. It's my opinion based on the reviews i've read.

It's not like you can prove me that there's absolutely no bias going on, right?

Oh, let me guess:

The TDK trilogy. It had good reviews, so it proves that nowadays there's absolutely no bias.

It's amazing how a movie like Ant-Man can get almost the same recommendation score as Batman Begins.
 
It seems you're still assuming the Transformers movies couldn't have made even more money if the reviews would have been better. Transformers is an appealing concept. It appeals to kids, families, people who grew up with the toys and the cartoons, car fanatics, the "brainless" younger audience who just want something cool, colorful and loud to watch. It's an easy concept to sell. Still, i don't see any evidence that it couldn't have done even better than what it did.

If you think that the critical consensus that's displayed on a website that receivies millions and millions of views can't affect the BO...well...i don't know what to tell you. I just don't agree with you.

You are actually arguing that the likes of Transformers could have made significantly more than a billion if the reviews were great?

Its a wonder Pixar's movies don't make 2 billion a go if all you need is something cool, colorful, and easy for the younger audience to accept.

Your argument is completely unsubstantiated.

No, i don't think that. You think that i think that, but i don't. I think BvS's poor performance was due to several factors. You're free to pick just one and run with it, if it better fits your agenda. I do think that the bad critical reception had an impact. I don't think it was the sole reason why the movie underperformed.

How much of an impact could it have had if it doesn't stop even lesser quality movies raking in the billions, and they have competition in the theaters at the time, too.

You can't seem to understand the fact that making a lot of money isn't equal to making as much money as it could, or it would, with better reviews. I'm not denying "bad" movies can make money.

You can't seem to understand that when really bad movies can make a billion, or close to it, with a critical hammering under their belt, the argument that they could do better if the reviews were better looks ridiculous. Especially when plenty of critically acclaimed anticipated movies don't get close to that.

For the third time( i think):

I don't care = I'm not gonna base my decisions on their recommendations. I'm not saying that i wouldn't like to be able to read well written criticism. But as it currently is, i don't follow their recommendations on movies. But i'm interested in everything that's related to movies, so i like to follow a movie's critical response.

Did you understand it this time, or are you going to continue asking me "why do you care?." It's not important why i care, so don't get too hung up on it.

I understood what you were saying the first time, and the contradiction is still there. If you're interested in reading these reviews they you clearly care about what the critics are saying, otherwise why would you waste your time reading something you say is rarely ever unbiased or well written. Unless you're a glutton for punishment and enjoy wasting your time reading stuff you know you won't like.
 
It's amazing how a movie like Ant-Man can get almost the same recommendation score as Batman Begins.

If you're basing this on the RT scores then you're simply not getting the point of RT. Rotten Tomatoes simply recommends, a binary yea or nay. The score is aggregated critical consensus, and not a critical scoring and analysis of the movie itself. You have to read the individual reviews to get that.
 
If you're basing this on the RT scores then you're simply not getting the point of RT. Rotten Tomatoes simply recommends, a binary yea or nay. The score is aggregated critical consensus, and not a critical scoring and analysis of the movie itself. You have to read the individual reviews to get that.

Exactly.

Critics Consensus for Ant-Man on RT: Led by a charming performance from Paul Rudd, Ant-Man offers Marvel thrills on an appropriately smaller scale -- albeit not as smoothly as its most successful predecessors.

Critics Consensus for Batman Begins on RT: Brooding and dark, but also exciting and smart, Batman Begins is a film that understands the essence of one of the definitive superheroes.

That's two different types of positive consensus.
 
I speak Cantonese so you obviously aren't :o

I see, so you're asking for RT to refine their selection criteria for approved critics. You could have said that in the first place.

Honestly, i'm not really asking for nothing because i don't think there's much you could do to change anything.

I honestly feel the critics get way too much credit and they more often than not fail to make recommendations that truly match the way the audience views the movie. SS is just one instance where the vast majority of the critics think it's crap but the audience seems to be enjoying it quite a bit more.

To me, the best scenario would be a single scoring system, with scores from the general audience. Fix the system, make a little more difficult for trolls to abuse it, but allow people to be the primary voice.

You can say audience scores are worthless, but IN MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, they're closer to what people actually think than the critics score. Both in SS and BvS, for example, the percentage of people i hear talking good about the movie isn't 20%, but rather more around the 50%/60% mark, which is closer to the audience score.
 
If you're basing this on the RT scores then you're simply not getting the point of RT. Rotten Tomatoes simply recommends, a binary yea or nay. The score is aggregated critical consensus, and not a critical scoring and analysis of the movie itself. You have to read the individual reviews to get that.

There's still a number that appears next to the movies, which is a recommendation rate. Are we gonna pretend that people don't look at it and take conclusions based on that score? It's there. Ant-Man is more recommended than Batman 89. It's very close to Batman Begins.
 
There's still a number that appears next to the movies, which is a recommendation rate. Are we gonna pretend that people don't look at it and take conclusions based on that score? It's there.

Only people who don't understand the RT system like yourself.

Ant-Man is more recommended than Batman 89. It's very close to Batman Begins.

Its not more recommended, its simply got a similar score based on its number of reviews. Sharknado has 82% score based on 17 reviews. Are you trying to say that means its more recommended than Batman '89 or Ant-Man? Especially with a critical consensus like this; 'Proudly, shamelessly, and gloriously brainless, Sharknado redefines "so bad it's good" for a new generation.'
 
There's still a number that appears next to the movies, which is a recommendation rate. Are we gonna pretend that people don't look at it and take conclusions based on that score? It's there. Ant-Man is more recommended than Batman 89. It's very close to Batman Begins.

It's people's prerogative if they want to take the percentage that way, but it's clear the percentage is a breakdown of the aggregated critical response. I mean, the breakdown is given right there under the rating.

Honestly, i'm not really asking for nothing because i don't think there's much you could do to change anything.

I honestly feel the critics get way too much credit and they more often than not fail to make recommendations that truly match the way the audience views the movie. SS is just one instance where the vast majority of the critics think it's crap but the audience seems to be enjoying it quite a bit more.

To me, the best scenario would be a single scoring system, with scores from the general audience. Fix the system, make a little more difficult for trolls to abuse it, but allow people to be the primary voice.

You can say audience scores are worthless, but IN MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, they're closer to what people actually think than the critics score. Both in SS and BvS, for example, the percentage of people i hear talking good about the movie isn't 20%, but rather more around the 50%/60% mark, which is closer to the audience score.

There's audience scoring as well on RT, so visitors can check out both sets of responses.
 
Last edited:
You are actually arguing that the likes of Transformers could have made significantly more than a billion if the reviews were great?

Considering i know a good amount of people who straight up tell me they only hear bad things about the movies and that's why they wouldn't pay for it, yeah, i do. I do think with good critical reception this movie would have made more money.

Its a wonder Pixar's movies don't make 2 billion a go if all you need is something cool, colorful, and easy for the younger audience to accept.

Your argument is completely unsubstantiated.

Transformers appeals to a much wider group of people than animated movies. You have people who watch it just because they had the toys and watched the series growing up. You have people who watch it just because they love cars. You have people who watch it just because they love Megan Fox's ass. It's on a different level of popularity.

Go on Google Trends. In 2004, even before the first movie, Transformers were more popular than the great Toy Story. It's really not difficult to understand why Transformers can make the money they make without being good.

Plus, they are so mindless, heartless and action packed, that they will always find its specific audience. Which is large. People who just wanna watch good action.

How much of an impact could it have had if it doesn't stop even lesser quality movies raking in the billions, and they have competition in the theaters at the time, too.

You can't seem to understand that when really bad movies can make a billion, or close to it, with a critical hammering under their belt, the argument that they could do better if the reviews were better looks ridiculous. Especially when plenty of critically acclaimed anticipated movies don't get close to that.

Movies that deal with extremely popular characters and are very well marketed will easily draw a lot of people to the theater. There's enough people who wanna watch a Batman/Superman movie just because it's a Batman/Superman movie, regardless of the reviews. But the reality is that those aren't the only people who go to the movies. Some people might be curious about it but not to the point where they will still see it if all they hear is bad things.

If you're willing to accept the influence of WOM, you should accept the influence of media. Opinions are opinions. And like i said, the influence of media on people's decisions is well documentated. You can search it for yourself. It seems naive to try to deny it.

I can't really answer you "how much of an impact", because that's something neither of us know. But as long as people give a crap about opinions, there will always be some of them who will act according to it. There will always be people who will hear what a friend says. There will always be people who will hear what the media says. It's the way the world works.


I understood what you were saying the first time, and the contradiction is still there. If you're interested in reading these reviews they you clearly care about what the critics are saying, otherwise why would you waste your time reading something you say is rarely ever unbiased or well written. Unless you're a glutton for punishment and enjoy wasting your time reading stuff you know you won't like.

I explained you what i meant by "i don't care". You're still ignoring it, just because you feel like it. If i didn't express myself well enough, than i apoligize. But since the last two posts i feel i did it, so i don't understand why you're still so hung up on your personal interpretation of what i said.

Maybe you should learn things aren't black or white. I like to stay informed and i enjoy the movie world, so i would read a couple of reviews from time to time just so i can at least talk about what i actually know. Doesn't mean i will follow their recommendations.
 
It's people's prerogative if they want to take the percentage that way, but it's clear the percentage is a breakdown of the aggregated critical response. I mean, the breakdown is given right there under the rating.



There's audience scoring as well on RT, so visitors can check out both sets of responses.

The audience's scoring should be better handled and should be the only score highlighted in the site. That's what i think.
 
The audience's scoring should be better handled and should be the only score highlighted in the site. That's what i think.

In that case, you should just visit IMDB if audience scoring is your go-to for movie recommendations. Because RT is doing what it says on the tin

The Tomatometer rating – based on the published opinions of hundreds of film and television critics – is a trusted measurement of movie and TV programming quality for millions of moviegoers. It represents the percentage of professional critic reviews that are positive for a given film or television show
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Staff online

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
200,642
Messages
21,779,520
Members
45,615
Latest member
hannnnman
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"