World "The Spectacular Spider-Man" Appreciation Thread (possible spoilers)

[Shikamaru]

Well, this is NY. It's like the cab capital of the world. Unless things have changed. Haven't been back there in awhile.

Uber and Lift are taking over now practically everyone. Especially among teens.

But yes, there's things like that about the show now that
(unfortunately) are dated. Cabs instead of ubers, teens calling each other more than texting, not enough social media presence (I wouldn't have expected a facebook namedrop but there's no comments like "I posted that pic of us on the internet" being made), and possibly not enough superhero craze among the cast? I'm not as confident on that last one. Again, I wouldn't have expected mentions to specific films, but I feel comments like "hey wanna check out that new superhero film?" would be made by most young people post-2012. Then again maybe it's just the circles I hang out in.

The good news is the show has some of that timeless feel BTAS had. They didn't mix the eras like Bruce Timm did, but they seemed careful to not freeze the show in the 2000s. There's no cultural references or specific slangs used, the dialogue is generic in the good way.

That and the simplicity of the art helps. That's something I noticed while I was rewatching. At no point did I go "wait that's clearly a 2008 Honda" or "oh they don't have Androids". It's barely noticeable they have phones with buttons.

It does however beg a question: at what point does it become impossible to revive the show (comic, film, whatever) without the first two seasons becoming a loose continuity like in 616?

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Uber and Lift are taking over now practically everyone. Especially among teens.

But yes, there's things like that about the show now that
(unfortunately) are dated. Cabs instead of ubers, teens calling each other more than texting, not enough social media presence (I wouldn't have expected a facebook namedrop but there's no comments like "I posted that pic of us on the internet" being made), and possibly not enough superhero craze among the cast? I'm not as confident on that last one. Again, I wouldn't have expected mentions to specific films, but I feel comments like "hey wanna check out that new superhero film?" would be made by most young people post-2012. Then again maybe it's just the circles I hang out in.

The good news is the show has some of that timeless feel BTAS had. They didn't mix the eras like Bruce Timm did, but they seemed careful to not freeze the show in the 2000s. There's no cultural references or specific slangs used, the dialogue is generic in the good way.

That and the simplicity of the art helps. That's something I noticed while I was rewatching. At no point did I go "wait that's clearly a 2008 Honda" or "oh they don't have Androids". It's barely noticeable they have phones with buttons.

It does however beg a question: at what point does it become impossible to revive the show (comic, film, whatever) without the first two seasons becoming a loose continuity like in 616?

Ahh ok. I've not been back to NY in probably 6 years so you'd know better than me. TSSM is set in the 'present' day so you can't avoid everything that could cause 'dating' issues for the show. Tech is always on the move.

But like you say, I do agree there's also a timeless feel to the show thanks in part to the simplified designs--even at the time the show came out the designs were not conventional, but also thanks to the writing. The dialogue doesn't rely on modern slang save for maybe the whole Bro stuff. And of course the show was made with a classic and iconic approach thanks to the philosophies of Weisman and Cook.

The only pop culture reference I can think of was the whole, "am I being punked?"

 

[Shikamaru]

I don't live in NY so I wouldn't know . I live in Toronto though and every Millennial here uses Uber (no one I know uses cabs), so I can't imagine New York is too different.

Also this isn't dated per se, but it's interesting how dated Greg's perception of Marvel is by now. He said in this universe the FF were around, the X-Men were just taking off, and Ant-Man and Hulk were rogue...damn, how times have changed. That's not at all how the MU's prioritized today. There was no mention of Iron Man or the Avengers anywhere on AskGreg. It reminds me of an old Lee/Ditko comic that called Spider-Man "the greatest superhero since the Fantastic Four."

I wonder if he would've still stuck by that timeline if the show debuted today.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I actually admire that he chose to go Silver Age with the way he adapted the story. I think even with Young Justice his take was more Silver Age than modern or even 80s material.

Now, while we've talked about villains, and even supporting and secondary characters. However what would you say about Peter himself? For a 16 year old, Peter is generally pretty mature for his age in this series... most of the mistakes he did make I could see college aged people making... was he perhaps TOO mature for someone in his age range? Most other teenage iterations of Spider-Man that I've seen (with possibly the exception of the original, but that was quite a different time period compared to more modern times), you could tell they were essentially young kids trying to do the right thing, but here I feel there is a bit of a feeling of maturity he exhibits here. The fact that college aged Betty Brant (20) was even thinking of entertaining him by going to his little school dance speaks volumes.

That's a well made analysis, and it reminds me of how I once said that the early comics Peter Parker is more mature than BND take on the character.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

I don't live in NY so I wouldn't know . I live in Toronto though and every Millennial here uses Uber (no one I know uses cabs), so I can't imagine New York is too different.

Also this isn't dated per se, but it's interesting how dated Greg's perception of Marvel is by now. He said in this universe the FF were around, the X-Men were just taking off, and Ant-Man and Hulk were rogue...damn, how times have changed. That's not at all how the MU's prioritized today. There was no mention of Iron Man or the Avengers anywhere on AskGreg. It reminds me of an old Lee/Ditko comic that called Spider-Man "the greatest superhero since the Fantastic Four."

I wonder if he would've still stuck by that timeline if the show debuted today.

Oh haha, well maybe someone that lives in NY can chime in on the prevalence of cabs these days

I think it's very much a lightning in a bottle situation with this show. For instance Greg wanted to use Johnny Storm and Kingpin but wasn't allowed to because of rights issues. Had he been able to do those things we wouldn't have gotten the great storyline with Tombstone nor the show being praised as a Spidey solo show. Greg also talked about having Ben be a fan of Captain America and there was a trunk full of CA memorabilia in their attic. Greg wanted to have Peter in a flashback remembering how Ben was such a fan and them talking about his collection, etc. But again, rights issue.

Between the rights issues and the strained relationship with Sony and Marvel--those things contributed to how the show turned out. I still think Greg would've wanted to do the show with the same classic approach, Lee/Ditko era, but I seriously doubt it would've come to pass. The animation owned by Disney and the team up nature of shows these days, I just have a hard time seeing Greg's vision becoming a reality. At least not how TSSM is currently. It probably still would've been a great adaptation for the character but without that classic feel.

 

[Mistah K88]

I'm curious if those restrictions were the catalysts behind never creating an original character. After learning that they couldn't use a good chunk of the Marvel universe (even some Spider-Man characters like Kingpin [Sorry everyone, to me he's a Spidey baddie, Daredevil has his own rogues and crime bosses]), they decided that they would actually have to research characters they had the rights to and decided to only use characters from comic books while in the midst of research.

Even characters as minor as the Vault warden had to be from a comic book, no matter how little he actually appeared (you could see from a previous page in this thread Officer Resnick was introduced and killed off relatively quick in comics, so it didn't matter how minor they were). They also didn't solely stick to just 616 and Ultimate, as we have characters like Mayor Waters (although gender bent) in the show.

I will definitely agree that with the team up/guest star angle we have (in ALL of the Marvel cartoons) nowadays, it would probably be a wildly different show if it were introduced today. It would still be good mind you, but I'm sure it wouldn't have had the impact on me that it did. It has a good mix of simplicity and intricacy. It's kind of how I feel about this show in comparison to something like Young Justice, the show is GREAT, Incredible even, but I was never as invested as I was for this show. I honestly don't know why... (granted YJ is NOT kind to Batman villains, and he and his world being my favorite fictional comic book universe).

 

[Mistah K88]

John Devereaux

First Appearance: Amazing Spider-Man Vol2 #43 (September, 2002)

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Mr._Devereaux_(Earth-616))

So as we know, in comics he was director of Lobster-Man The Movie, that Mary Jane Watson starred in. In Spectacular, we first see him as an actor in Group Therapy where was an actor, we then see more of him in Season 2 when he became a drama teacher at Midtown Manhattan Magnet High School (M-Cubed), where Mary Jane transferred to. Perhaps in the future 10+ years he could have been used as a reference for Mary Jane Watson and maybe even acted in a film by him...who knows

Also a note, Midtown High in Spectacular is a Magnet school. Historically these emerged in the 1970's to remedy segregation in public schools, by pulling kids out of their normal neighborhood districts. The more modern incarnations are more academically selective, or have advanced programs and curricula that set them a part of standard high schools. Spectacular made this Magnet specialize in multiple subjects, which would explain why there were higher profile teachers every now and then for different special/advanced classes (St. Devereaux for drama and Captain Stacy for criminology). This was also a smart way to get a meathead like Flash Thompson in the same advanced school as Peter, without making him brilliant in science and simultaneously keeping him a jock , as he would simply excel in a different subject.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

I was out and about yesterday and decided to check out this used bookstore and came across a brand new version of this TSSM activity book. I couldn't resist. Only cost me like $5. Neat little book. Has a nice looking poster along with some cool stickers and for when I'm in the mood, artwork from the show that needs coloring

 

[Venom 1988]

In case anyone hasn't seen it, they posted the new episode of the Spec Radio podcast.

http://www.spidey-dude.com/?p=5312

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Dang. You got me all excited there for a second. I thought it was gonna be the next episode, Shear Strength

 

[Shikamaru]

Also a note, Midtown High in Spectacular is a Magnet school. Historically these emerged in the 1970's to remedy segregation in public schools, by pulling kids out of their normal neighborhood districts. The more modern incarnations are more academically selective, or have advanced programs and curricula that set them a part of standard high schools. Spectacular made this Magnet specialize in multiple subjects, which would explain why there were higher profile teachers every now and then for different special/advanced classes (St. Devereaux for drama and Captain Stacy for criminology). This was also a smart way to get a meathead like Flash Thompson in the same advanced school as Peter, without making him brilliant in science and simultaneously keeping him a jock , as he would simply excel in a different subject.

I absolutely adore this idea the more I think about it.

I mean, I would argue there's a bit of social commentary in it too. Because it's an all-around prestigious school, there's also more variation in abilities between the students. This results in more cliques, a stronger social hierarchy, and an environment which still divides people into nerds and jocks (and therefore increasing bullying of the nerds by said jocks).

Furthermore, it also explains Harry's inferiority complex. He was the one student who was only there because he was rich - Peter and Gwen were science magnets, Flash and the boys were athletes, Sally and Liz were cheerleaders, and MJ was there for drama. Harry felt he had no skill to cling to and so he turned to drugs.

Basically while society puts this school on a higher pedestal than other schools, it also has a dark side.

 

[Mistah K88]

Furthermore, it also explains Harry's inferiority complex. He was the one student who was only there because he was rich - Peter and Gwen were science magnets, Flash and the boys were athletes, Sally and Liz were cheerleaders, and MJ was there for drama. Harry felt he had no skill to cling to and so he turned to drugs.

Basically while society puts this school on a higher pedestal than other schools, it also has a dark side.

Harry is an interesting case... I noticed that he wasn't in the science class along with Peter, Gwen, Liz and Flash. In this series Harry seems to lose everything to Peter. His dad praises Peter more (and makes sure to do it within earshot). He asked Peter to try out for football with him as a support system, and turns out Peter still excelled physically, and then he gets a girlfriend (Gwen being a bit of a hypocrite not wanting to settle for being second place for Peter, but willing to settle for Harry) who actually wants Peter (and both Peter and Gwen almost cheated on at least 2 occasions.).

Also, Emily didn't help matters either as she was just as indifferent toward Harry as her husband was.

Also, the police don't nearly get enough love,

Stan Carter

First Appearance: Spectacular Spider-Man #107 (1985)

So in comics, he eventually becomes a criminal known as the Sin-Eater. In the show he is still a cop and as we see, he's supportive of vigilantes like Spider-Man. He mentions that Spidey doesn't go far enough when apprehending criminals.

http://marvel.com/universe/Sin-Eater_(Stanley_Carter)#axzz4ocLaZeXS


Anyone know anyone in Spidey comics with the last name "Morales" (aside from Miles) or "Wingard" in the comics who are related to police in any way? Captain Stacy mentions the names in Group Therapy as those two officers are to secure the hostages that the Sinister Six took to lure Spider-Man out...

 

[Mistah K88]

Jean DeWolff
First Apperance: Marvel Team-Up #48 (August 1976)

She is skeptical of a costumed vigilante like Spider-Man’s presence in New York in the show. In comics she grows from this to become one of Spidey’s allies and even admired the costumed hero. She is eventually killed by her partner Stan Carter. She is a Native American in the cartoon
marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Jean_DeWolff_(Earth-616)

 

[UltimateWebhead]

The death of Jean DeWolff is probably like a top 5 Spider-Man story--and probably PAD's best arc. Would have loved to see Weisman and Cook's take on it.

Are you sure Harry wasn't in the science class? He was there with Gwen and Peter in the 1st episode.

 

[Mistah K88]

I am going to have to watch the first episode again..

Dr. Ashley Kafka

First Appearance: The Spectacular Spider-Man #178 (July,1991)

She founded Ravencroft in comics. Funnily enough her original design was CLEARLY middle aged, compared to how she became hot...It goes to show you how hanging around with crazies does wonders for the body. But yes unlike Miles Warren, she has her more iconic design rather than the original. She's a therapist at Ravencroft from what we've seen of her in the show... and even falls for Otto's timid act.

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Ashley_Kafka_(Earth-616))


When it comes to the Hobgoblin mystery, I'm curious to know how they would have handled Spider-Man learning from his past Goblin experience. We've seen how differently he handled Mark (Molten Man) in comparison to Max (Electro). One of the main reasons Gobby was able to redirect suspicion was because Spidey blurted out loud that he knew Norman was the Green Goblin, which them made Norman race home after losing his fight with Spidey to figure out a way to DENY! Seeing Spider-Man learn from previous mistakes was great development as a hero.

 

[Venom 1988]

Dang. You got me all excited there for a second. I thought it was gonna be the next episode, Shear Strength

lol sorry

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

Mistah K, your insight and in-depth research never fail to amaze.

 

[Sarcastic Fan]

Dang. You got me all excited there for a second. I thought it was gonna be the next episode, Shear Strength

We haven't recorded that yet. We're getting an additional guest on, alongside Greg Weisman, we just haven't found the time for the recording. But we'll get there as soon as we can.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

We haven't recorded that yet. We're getting an additional guest on, alongside Greg Weisman, we just haven't found the time for the recording. But we'll get there as soon as we can.

Any chance that 'guest' is Peter MacNicol?

 

[Mistah K88]

Joan Jameson

First Appearance: Spider-Man's Tangled Web #20 (January 2003)

JJJ's first wife and the mother of John Jameson. In comics, she was a witness of J Jonah Jameson stood up to his abusive father (David) [or was he retconned in to his stepfather with JJJ Sr.], and began his cigar habit. The most romantic thing that JJJ ever heard was Joan saying "Your dad's a bit of a [censored]) I don't think they explain how she died in comics...or even when... ANYWAY in the show she seems to make Jolly Jonah seem "henpecked"but when you're married to someone like J. Jonah Jameson, you would have to be as aggressive as he is

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Joan_Jameson_(Earth-616))


You know, here's an often forgotten tidbit... It seems that Eddie Brock and Max Dillon were friends, or at least acquaintances judging from their interactions in Electro's origin episode. Max mentions going back to college to Eddie provided his accident didn't happen. I'd like to assume that he and Eddie are around the same age. While this plotline isn't touched upon for the rest of the series like say the camaraderie between Otto and Adrian. However, methinks that putting them in the same place (Ravencroft) would bring this relationship between these two characters back into the forefront in season 3.

 

[ObserveCreative]

I am not quite sure whether I was successful in terms of contributing to a good cause with my 55th Anniversary video on YouTube (forming a potential Season 3 petition with bare visuals and Josh Keaton-enhanced voice over work and some other surprises), but I did it anyway (and tried to get enough notices over the FB SSM community that consists of a lot of individuals that were involved with the making of the show) because I truly believe that this is one hell of a cause that is really worth fighting for (if they somehow did it with Young Justice and Samurai Jack revivals, then why cannot we also have our say as well?)! My entire segment about SSM starts at 12m19s.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I'd love to see these petitions for season 3 find their way to making it actually happen, but reality of the situation is too harsh.

 

[ObserveCreative]

I'd love to see these petitions for season 3 find their way to making it actually happen, but reality of the situation is too harsh.

Alas, you are quite right, dear Spider-Aziz. But maybe, just maybe, one day, someone, somewhere (with a great Sean Cheeks-like art style) is going to come out of the shadows and work with Mr. Weisman on a separate comic book (maybe through Kickstarter or some other crowdfunding resource) where they will be able to explore a lot of S3/DTV ideas that we've heard so much about in the past.

Kind of like what Mr. Semper has managed to perform with his final Spidey episode (working with a talented foreign artist with enough capability to replicate the feel and the vibe of the 90's cartoon):

[YT]sLSih2FRYBk[/YT]

 

[Venom 1988]

Its not gonna happen. The ship for SSM has sailed a long time ago.

 

[ObserveCreative]

Its not gonna happen. The ship for SSM has sailed a long time ago.

Never say never, my friend. Imagine waiting for 10-18 more years (just like a lot of folks had to wait in order to get a small peak at Semper's final episode of TAS, even if it was done through a really well-made artwork) only for some really skilled and talented artist to come out of nowhere and for him/her to finish the job.