Homecoming The Zendaya is possibly someone, maybe thread - Part 4

[Moridin]

You are far to dismissive of her being their version of Mary Jane being that in the same film they have total reinvtions of characters like Flash and Aunt May.

Not when the writers express this was meant as a reinvention of that character and they give her the 'MJ' nickname as a reveal that is supposed to be meaningful in some way. Feige may say she's not Mary Jane, but the writing team clearly had her in mind and he let that scene make it into the film even if his intentions are different. Even those who like her character refer to her as a different take on the character. Given Homecoming's confusing reveal and the conflicting views on her from those involved in the film I wouldn't be so dismissive on discussing how 'Michelle' measures up to 'Mary Jane'.

Not "writers", "writer" singular, 1 of 6. A writer that was only involved in the first draft, and is likely not coming back for the sequel. What he intended 2 years ago in not relevant. Where we stand right now, aka "What is relevant" is Feige said she is not Mary Jane, and Pascal said she will not end up being Mary Jane.

So as Mike says, this conversation of how Michelle stacks up as being/becomming Mary Jane is completely moot.

it was media outlets... and usually you're not put on posters when you're barely in it.

That's the thing that makes me wonder why she was on the poster, marketing, and had such billing on the movie itself. I honestly think they should have just swapped Laura Harrier to be the "poster girl" as her character was actually semi relevant to everything going on. Because Michelle is pretty much an original character, all we have to go on is "potential", so we're not waiting for the other shoe to drop to see how she develops into a character that she's "not supposed to be".

She is in the marketing as much as she is for literally the same reason RDJ is.
Laura Harrier is not because nobody knows who the f*** Laura Harrier is.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I dont get why those statements are somehow wrong. Zendaya herself, in an interview, said she had a small role. Yes she was marketed a lot but throughout the production she was said to have a small role to be setup for future films. Fanboys went crazy speculating who she was even though we were told from the start she had a small role.

no one is saying the statements are wrong. just that the marketing is misleading

 

[Ozbridge]

I think market is bound to be misleading though.

There was also tons of RDJ in marketing and he was in the movie for 5 minutes.

I agree that they put Zendaya and RDJ so much in marketing and promotion for essentially the same reason.

Oh and about the likes of Favreau and Marisa Tomei are bigger stars than her, if your movie has 22% audience from the female under 25 demo then you will be wise to use Zendaya to promote your movie like crazy. Her IG followers probably double RDJ and Marvel Studio combined.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

i don't believe i said "said" there was definitely an inference though. and she's hardly the biggest name in the movie...

Keaton, Paltrow, Downey, Favareau, all trump her easily. she's just a flash in the pan it girl so far. with very little to back up her fame outside of fashion loving her.

I think you need to read my post again. I said she is the most well known young actor in the movie.

And nope, I'm not wrong on what you intially posted. Go back and check.

 

[Mike Murdock]

You are far to dismissive of her being their version of Mary Jane being that in the same film they have total reinvtions of characters like Flash and Aunt May.

That just proves my point. If they wanted to reinvent a character while using just their name (like Ned, Betty, etc.) or update them for modern audiences (like Flash and Aunt May), they know how to do that. Michelle is neither of those things.

 

[X Knight]

That just proves my point. If they wanted to reinvent a character while using just their name (like Ned, Betty, etc.) or update them for modern audiences (like Flash and Aunt May), they know how to do that. Michelle is neither of those things.

you're right. she is neither.

which makes the situation murkier and more complicated. Michelle is stuck in this weird "creative limbo" land.

She's a totally original character with her own look, personality, vibe, and presumably backstory, and yet she just happens to "share" the same initials/nickname of one of THE most popular, iconic, and recognizable supporting characters and LIs of the Spider-Man mythos.

And by sharing that nickname MJ, Michelle is presumably going to "draw upon" the shared history between Mary Jane and Peter. As Feige said, the MJ name "evokes" a certain familiarity amongst Spidey fans and they are hoping to transfer that to Michelle in some way.

And by having the initial/nickname MJ, Michelle is pretty much blocking the other MJ, Mary Jane Watson, from ever appearing in the MCU Spidey world. And by extension, Michelle looks to be replacing Mary Jane as the primary LI for Peter.

so, Michelle is not Mary Jane Watson and is not some modern reinvention of the character.

However, by also being "MJ", Michelle is essentially replacing Mary Jane's role and namesake in the story. Michelle will be the MCU's "MJ."

Michelle is not Mary Jane Watson. But she's still MJ. When she should have been just Michelle - an original character.

 

[Hypestyle]

hopefully she will get to appear in other MCU films, showing up at seemingly inappropriate times. Hmm.

 

[X Knight]

hopefully she will get to appear in other MCU films, showing up at seemingly inappropriate times. Hmm.

so, you are saying during the climactic battle with Thanos in IW, Michelle will pop up, flip Thanos off, and tell him his throne was built on the back of slaves??

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Not sure if this article has been posted yet. But clearly the author of this hasn't a damn clue about Mary Jane Watson.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inverse.com/amp/article/34344-spider-man-homecoming-zendaya-michelle-mary-jane-watson-mj

 

[Rowsdower!]

Yeah, as much as I liked Homecoming, I was scratching my head a bit over the changes they made to the some of the supporting characters. Aunt May was fine, but I'm not sure why they changed Flash from a jock to a *****ey DJ wannabe. I guess because they were in a school for gifted students or whatever but that type of school would probably still have some sports programs.

And the MJ thing just left me scratching my head. Is she really a reinvention of the character or was this just some sort of foreshadowing thing that Peter will meet his true love sometime later? Is she going to change her name to Mary Jane Watson after becoming an actress? The whole thing was just sort of confusing. And her part was really small in the grand scheme of the movie; I was actually surprised by how little she was in the movie after they put her name and face in the marketing so much.

 

[Mysteryman]

Yeah, as much as I liked Homecoming, I was scratching my head a bit over the changes they made to the some of the supporting characters. Aunt May was fine, but I'm not sure why they changed Flash from a jock to a *****ey DJ wannabe. I guess because they were in a school for gifted students or whatever but that type of school would probably still have some sports programs.

And the MJ thing just left me scratching my head. Is she really a reinvention of the character or was this just some sort of foreshadowing thing that Peter will meet his true love sometime later? Is she going to change her name to Mary Jane Watson after becoming an actress? The whole thing was just sort of confusing. And her part was really small in the grand scheme of the movie; I was actually surprised by how little she was in the movie after they put her name and face in the marketing so much.

I highly doubt that Michelle will change her name to Mary Jane Watson, especially after what Kevin Feige said.

 

[Rowsdower!]

What exactly did he say?

 

[The Infernal]

Not "writers", "writer" singular, 1 of 6. A writer that was only involved in the first draft, and is likely not coming back for the sequel. What he intended 2 years ago in not relevant. Where we stand right now, aka "What is relevant" is Feige said she is not Mary Jane, and Pascal said she will not end up being Mary Jane.

So as Mike says, this conversation of how Michelle stacks up as being/becomming Mary Jane is completely moot.

So just ignore this one writer intended her to be a reinvention and Feige actually let her be called MJ onscreen? From what I've seen from Feige I can't rule out them going in a Mary Jane direction with the character despite her never being called that. He even seems to allude to it despite saying "different characters" also. Seems very mixed messages.

“But giving her the initials that remind you of that dynamic certainly is intriguing about what could go forward.”

The film is more reliable than their words at the moment imo. Until the sequel hits and its confirmed they are not going in a Mary Jane like direction with her character then there's still reason to discuss her character in relation to Mary Jane as that's the perception we're left with by the film.

 

[Hypestyle]

There should be a Michelle action figure, for sure.

 

[WarriorDreamer]

I don't think we'll ever get a definitive comics version of Mary Jane until televison.

I think her story-line would take too long to flesh out in films.

Its a shame because we got pretty good versions of Gwen with Bryce & Emma but not for MJ who is arguably far popular and more important than Gwen.

 

[WarriorDreamer]

I think Michelle might be this series' version of MJ, but I think there still might be a chance of MJ turning up, most likely depending on the success of these movies.

Might be cancelled after 2 movies, or might go onto 5.

Depends.

 

[universeman]

Its a shame because we got pretty good versions of Gwen with Bryce & Emma but not for MJ who is arguably far popular and more important than Gwen.

I think because of Spider-Gwen, and Stone playing Gwen Stacy, Gwen became more popular. Really Disney/Marvel just may end up erasing Mary-Jane altogether. I mean she may not be in the movies, also she may not be in the new tv show, and it's like Slott said Peter's love for her is anti-Marvel.

 

[WarriorDreamer]

I think because of Spider-Gwen, and Stone playing Gwen Stacy, Gwen became more popular. Really Disney/Marvel just may end up erasing Mary-Jane altogether. I mean she may not be in the movies, also she may not be in the new tv show, and it's like Slott said Peter's love for her is anti-Marvel.

I think with the way that they conceived Gwen in the movies, as being a gorgeous scientist and girlfriend and equal to Peter, is a better role model than MJ being a model/actress perhaps. Perhaps they feel with Michelle being 'shy' 'awkward' 'geeky', its giving a good role model for girls, saying smart girls are better.

But that said, I thought Mary Jane was smart, she was just not book/computers smart.

 

[Avenging Angel]

Welp homeless MJ made me chuckle. I'll post my review shortly.

 

[topdog1]

Can't express harshly enough how much I HATED that MJ "reveal" or whatever it was... if they go in that direction I'm OUT for any sequels.

No question about it. That alone should turn off many a Marvel Zombie in the fan base.

 

[X Knight]

Not sure if this article has been posted yet. But clearly the author of this hasn't a damn clue about Mary Jane Watson.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inverse.com/amp/article/34344-spider-man-homecoming-zendaya-michelle-mary-jane-watson-mj

To the author of that article I ask..........

 

[Avenging Angel]

She’s going to be a better MJ than Mary Jane Watson ever was in the original Spider-Man films and most of the comics (the classic ones, anyway).

You got that from under 5 minutes of screen time? She's quite bloke-ish in the film. Mary Jane is at least feminine. I got none of that from Zendaya's Michelle.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

You got that from under 5 minutes of screen time? She's quite bloke-ish in the film. Mary Jane is at least feminine. I got none of that from Zendaya's Michelle.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this and I don't think I want to know.

 

[X Knight]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this and I don't think I want to know.

I think he meant that classic/616 Mary Jane Watson is more "girly" in the sense that she dresses stylishly, cares about her looks and looks pretty, etc.

whereas Michelle is more "tomboyish" in the sense that she dresses down, looks plain and disheveled with no frills, no makeup, etc. As presented in Homecoming, Michelle is not very attractive, imo.

not sure if "feminine," "girly," or "tomboyish" are the right words to use, but I think that's what he was trying to get at.

or put another way, look how Liz looks and dresses in Homecoming compared to Michelle. Mary Jane Watson would be more like Liz than Michelle.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

I mean, I have some idea as to what he meant but the use of the "feminine" in the context it was used is problematic, to say the least. Lets remember that we're talking about a character who is probably no older than 16. The fact that she may not look as "feminine" as comic Mary Jane certainly shouldn't be seen as a negative, especially when the latter represents a fantasy more than anything else.