Universal MCU: Hulk and Namor

[Jordanstine]

https://www.newsarama.com/37798-mar...h-characters-still-off-limits-for-disney.html

Some questions after reading that aricle:

- Does Universal get any kind of revenue whenever Hulk appears in the Avengers?

- Can Marvel include Namor in an Avengers/MCU film?

- Universal supposedly owns the distribution rights, do those have expiration dates?

- What are the chances Universal sells their rights back to Hulk/Namor back?

 

[Silvermoth]

I wonder if there's fine print Disney can use to buy the characters? Surely they won't need to buy the whole studio again!

 

[Aztec]

https://www.newsarama.com/37798-mar...h-characters-still-off-limits-for-disney.html

Some questions after reading that aricle:

1) Does Universal get any kind of revenue whenever Hulk appears in the Avengers?

2) Can Marvel include Namor in an Avengers/MCU film?

3) Universal supposedly owns the distribution rights, do those have expiration dates?

4) What are the chances Universal sells their rights back to Hulk/Namor back?

No one but the lawyers involved knows all of the answers but here’s a shot based upon what I’ve read and heard in interviews and articles.

1) I don’t believe so. They do however still get distribution rights to sales and showings of The Incredible Hulk. That film will soon be 10 years old but MCU compilation packs and film marathons probably provides periodic pocket change.

2) Accordig to Feige they can but it would be annoying.

3) Clearly not. Otherwise they would have reverted. Fox’s contracts were 7 year deals and I believe Sony’s is 3 or 5 years. However the clock gets reset each time a film goes into production.

4) Very high if Marvel makes the right offer. Those rights are doing next to nothing for Universal. They’d be better off selling them.

 

[Random490]

https://www.newsarama.com/37798-mar...h-characters-still-off-limits-for-disney.html

Some questions after reading that aricle:

- Does Universal get any kind of revenue whenever Hulk appears in the Avengers?

- Can Marvel include Namor in an Avengers/MCU film?

- Universal supposedly owns the distribution rights, do those have expiration dates?

- What are the chances Universal sells their rights back to Hulk/Namor back?

Nothing is 100% clear because these contract are not public. All we have is from interviews, press releases, and rumor/inside info.

- No, the deal as far as I know understand it is that if a Hulk movie is made Marvel has to offer them distribution first. Universal will then get a portion of revenue for distributing it. Since Disney have their distribution Marvel no longer has any need to partner with another studio and share the revenue.

- Unclear. The Hulk and Namor film rights were probably made a separate time and the distribution deal was probably made for just the Hulk property and not Namor. I also recall hearing there may be some rights issue outside of the films rights that may cause trouble. However I believe recall Namor being one of the MCU's very early projects but never got beyond a logo so who knows why.

- Unknown. The deal was likely made so that Universal would have to make a Hulk movie to hold on to the rights, but with this deal they can still profit off of it while the new Marvel Studios would have a popular IP to grow their brand as an independent film studio. So it's likely that Universal would want this deal to be in place as long as possible and Marvel wouldn't have as a strong hand in negotiating. So for all we know it is in perpetuity.

- Unlikely Marvel has enough characters to keep making movies with they don't need a solo Hulk film(Specially with the Fox merger). Plus with Hulk appearing in other movies they can have their cake and eat it too. Namor also isn't a big property, specially no where near the Hulk. Even if they had the rights I could imagine Marvel having no interest in the character, I doubt he'd ever have his own movie but maybe be in someone else's. Also remember Disney didn't buy Fox for some film rights, that's just the tip of the huge ass iceberg they got. So really no incentive to pay for it. Also Universal isn't exactly hurting for cash so they can play hard ball with the price all they want. If they're studio was struggling maybe. Basically Marvel doesn't need it.

 

[Big Bang]

- Does Universal get any kind of revenue whenever Hulk appears in the Avengers?

Based on comments from Marvel in the past, NO. Universal only holds the solo film distribution rights. Any film where Hulk is included with the other characters, Universal does not see a dime. Hence why you don't see any Universal branded on any of the Avengers films or Thor: Ragnarok.

- Can Marvel include Namor in an Avengers/MCU film?

Less clear. Kevin Feige has referred to past contracts that make him more problematic.

- Universal supposedly owns the distribution rights, do those have expiration dates?

The rights are in perpetuity. Unless Universal chooses to sell them back, there they will stay.

- What are the chances Universal sells their rights back to Hulk/Namor back?

Unknown. Money talks, but Universal knows they would stand to make more money if they hold onto the rights. Marvel/Disney is playing chicken right now with them by not making any solo films at all. There was some chatter that Universal's portion of the Namor rights might have reverted, but there was no official word.


The wildcard in all of this is Fox. Once Disney has assumed control over those assets, they might be able to go to Universal and work out a deal for any/all outstanding rights. There were distribution rights to Dreamworks Animation that Fox has for example that Universal wanted, since they own that company now. Other assets as well that Disney could potentially afford to part with as well. All kinds of possibilities become open once the Disney/Fox deal is approved. Universal is more unique like Disney, where they have divisions like their Parks & Resorts. Universal is currently planning on building a major expansion to their Orlando offerings (word is 2x parks). We're talking a scale comparative to Walt Disney World here (minus the empty space between the parks). Universal is hungry for properties they can control vertically and Disney is going to have a plethora of properties obtained from Fox. Some of which they may choose to not hold onto, such as BlueSky Animation and its IP's.

 

[Dark Raven]

This could've been discussed in the Keep Hope Alive that the rights will revert to Marvel thread. That's where everyone who is thinking about all this stuff will be.

 

[ADollarADay]

Based on comments from Marvel in the past, NO. Universal only holds the solo film distribution rights. Any film where Hulk is included with the other characters, Universal does not see a dime. Hence why you don't see any Universal branded on any of the Avengers films or Thor: Ragnarok.

Less clear. Kevin Feige has referred to past contracts that make him more problematic.

The rights are in perpetuity. Unless Universal chooses to sell them back, there they will stay.

Unknown. Money talks, but Universal knows they would stand to make more money if they hold onto the rights. Marvel/Disney is playing chicken right now with them by not making any solo films at all. There was some chatter that Universal's portion of the Namor rights might have reverted, but there was no official word.


The wildcard in all of this is Fox. Once Disney has assumed control over those assets, they might be able to go to Universal and work out a deal for any/all outstanding rights. There were distribution rights to Dreamworks Animation that Fox has for example that Universal wanted, since they own that company now. Other assets as well that Disney could potentially afford to part with as well. All kinds of possibilities become open once the Disney/Fox deal is approved. Universal is more unique like Disney, where they have divisions like their Parks & Resorts. Universal is currently planning on building a major expansion to their Orlando offerings (word is 2x parks). We're talking a scale comparative to Walt Disney World here (minus the empty space between the parks). Universal is hungry for properties they can control vertically and Disney is going to have a plethora of properties obtained from Fox. Some of which they may choose to not hold onto, such as BlueSky Animation and its IP's.

I don't think it would be wise for Disney to divest of BlueSky. As you said, Universal is very likely opening a 3rd gate in Orlando and they have 2 Animated studios of comparable size and output as Disney. BlueSky could be the differentiator.

Beyond that, I would say what we talked about before is a fair trade. I recently went to target and walmart for xmas shopping and I saw a very big Trolls presence. Universal is trying to make that a big thing, you also have a netflix original series on it. Fox owns distribution rights to Trolls 1, presumably, in perpetuity. Comcast wants that along with Boss Baby 1, Captain Underpants, Kung Fu Panda 3, How to Train your Dragon 2, etc

Yes, distribution rights of future Hulk movies is arguably more valuable as Marvel will make more money on it than Comcast will make by getting distribution rights to legacy titles. However, if things stay the same, Disney will make more money on those legacy titles than the other way around as Disney/Marvel have proven they don't need Hulk distribution rights to mine the character. It's a nice to have, certainly, but not a necessity.

That said, I think a DIS - CMCSA deal will involve

1. Any outstanding movie rights CMCSA has to Hulk, Namor, et.al.
2. Fox's distribution rights to Dreamworks and Horton Hears a Who (maybe Don Bluth, but Disney won't want to give up Anastasia, she will be a Disney princess)
3. Marvel theme park rights in Orlando and Spider-man theme park rights in Japan. Use of the word "Marvel" in theme parks worldwide
4. Simpsons theme park rights
5. American Horror Stories that is used in HHN
6. CMCSA 30% Hulu ownership

It won't be a simple transaction.

 

[Big Bang]

It won't be a simple transaction.

Bit of an understatement.

BlueSky could be the differentiator.

I'm unsure about that. The last notable film they had was Peanuts, and they don't have the rights to the property. That was done with Craig Schultz (Charles's son) heavy involvement. Beyond that, most of their films are not really heavy hitters. Good films sure, but nowhere near on the same level as Disney & Pixar. I think ROI wise, they'll consider selling them off and focus on their primary animation studios.

Beyond that, I would say what we talked about before is a fair trade. I recently went to target and walmart for xmas shopping and I saw a very big Trolls presence. Universal is trying to make that a big thing, you also have a netflix original series on it. Fox owns distribution rights to Trolls 1, presumably, in perpetuity. Comcast wants that along with Boss Baby 1, Captain Underpants, Kung Fu Panda 3, How to Train your Dragon 2, etc

Not a bad move I'd say. I hadn't paid a lot of attention to DreamWorks in quite a while. I sat down and watched the Dragon films back to back to get an idea to what they've been up to, and I was blown away by how far they've come. Trolls may have potential. My wife watched that when we drove to Canada and she seemed to enjoy that film. Absolutely Comcast is going to want the distribution rights to their franchises. Maybe they'll come to terms for Hulk, but if Universal is smart they're going to get as much as they can from Disney.

Certainly the sticking point of the Marvel and now Simpsons theme park rights is going to come up at some point. I would be surprised if 'The Simpsons' deal was put in place without a renewal date. Knowing Fox though, it's likely they have one. Universal's future parks are probably 10 years or more away since there are still some land deals that have to be worked out, hotels to be built, etc. It's a fascinating project to follow none the less. The good part is that if they are successful in securing what they could get, then they won't be boxed like their original park. At some juncture the two sides are going to have to sit down.

 

[ADollarADay]

Bit of an understatement.

I'm unsure about that. The last notable film they had was Peanuts, and they don't have the rights to the property. That was done with Craig Schultz (Charles's son) heavy involvement. Beyond that, most of their films are not really heavy hitters. Good films sure, but nowhere near on the same level as Disney & Pixar. I think ROI wise, they'll consider selling them off and focus on their primary animation studios.

Not a bad move I'd say. I hadn't paid a lot of attention to DreamWorks in quite a while. I sat down and watched the Dragon films back to back to get an idea to what they've been up to, and I was blown away by how far they've come. Trolls may have potential. My wife watched that when we drove to Canada and she seemed to enjoy that film. Absolutely Comcast is going to want the distribution rights to their franchises. Maybe they'll come to terms for Hulk, but if Universal is smart they're going to get as much as they can from Disney.

Certainly the sticking point of the Marvel and now Simpsons theme park rights is going to come up at some point. I would be surprised if 'The Simpsons' deal was put in place without a renewal date. Knowing Fox though, it's likely they have one. Universal's future parks are probably 10 years or more away since there are still some land deals that have to be worked out, hotels to be built, etc. It's a fascinating project to follow none the less. The good part is that if they are successful in securing what they could get, then they won't be boxed like their original park. At some juncture the two sides are going to have to sit down.

Disney called out Ice Age on their presentation, I am not sure they are thinking of divesting it right now. I think BlueSky would do well at Disney for lower budgeted theatrical films and adaptation for SW, Avatar, Marvel.

Universal is going to get the most they can out of Disney, as they should, but a straight up trade between the movie distribution rights already favor them as Disney can get mine Hulk extremely well without the need to get anything from Universal and they will make more money than Comcast whenever a new Trolls, Boss Baby, How to Train Your Dragon, Kung Fu Panda, etc. Comcast will get the most out of the theme park rights and Hulu 30%.

I think it's likely that the Simpsons rights were more similar to Harry Potter than Marvel's. The former signed between CMCSA and TWX expires in 2029, the latter, as you know, is pretty much in perpetuity.

 

[psylockolussus]

I would like to see Namor in a live action Marvel film soon! Other than She Hulk and Spider-Woman, he is the one Marvel superhero that is way overdue for a film appearance.

 

[Tymminator]

In the past, I always wanted Kevin Durant to be Namor.

 

[Power Cosmic]

I would like to see Namor in a live action Marvel film soon! Other than She Hulk and Spider-Woman, he is the one Marvel superhero that is way overdue for a film appearance.

Agreed, specially considering he's Marvel's first hero!

 

[Inhuman117]

After the FOX deal is complettley done and Black on White i m sure Disney/marvel targets the Full Rights of this too

 

[Random490]

After the FOX deal is complettley done and Black on White i m sure Disney/marvel targets the Full Rights of this too

They did "target" Fox rights. Remember for Disney this was about the acquisitions of major businesses. Comic book rights are a very small footnote in this deal. Hell superheroes are just a small factor at 20th century fox to begin with. To us it's the biggest and most exciting thing about it, but to the CEO's who made the deal it means nothing. Disney is not going after Marvel Rights I don't think Iger cares enough to even think about it.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

They did "target" Fox rights. Remember for Disney this was about the acquisitions of major businesses. Comic book rights are a very small footnote in this deal. Hell superheroes are just a small factor at 20th century fox to begin with. To us it's the biggest and most exciting thing about it, but to the CEO's who made the deal it means nothing. Disney is not going after Marvel Rights I don't think Iger cares enough to even think about it.

And still, the movies alone make more than 2B per year for Disney, merchandise even more and Iger cares enough about it to explicitly call those IP's out after the acquisition

 

[Inhuman117]

True and Bob Iger himself said XMen and F4 are caried to the MCU now so he cares

 

[Iceman]

Would be great to one day be able to see Namor in this universe.

 

[ludovica]

In the past, I always wanted Kevin Durant to be Namor.

Do you mean Kevin Durand, right?
Cause Durant is an unbelievably unexpected pick...

 

[Dark Raven]

Do you mean Kevin Durand, right?
Cause Durant is an unbelievably unexpected pick...

Durant might be willing to play ball.

 

[ludovica]

Durant might be willing to play ball.

I'm not even against this, just not sure he would score an all star performance.
At least he's a team player.

 

[ernesth100]

Ruffalo's getting old. Phase 4 is the last chance unless they wanna do oldman Hulk. lol

 

[psylockolussus]

I don't think theyd feature an Old Man Hulk.

 

[Silvermoth]

Is it true she Hulk is at universal too? That's a shame. Still, I give it a year before Disney moves on them

 

[Power Cosmic]

People talk a lot about seeing a Hulk vs Thing fight, now after the acquisition of Fox. However, when growing up, my favorite fights were Hulk vs Namor: they had some titanic clashes!

 

[Silvermoth]

I suppose once Disney has fixed up the fox deal this will be the next thing they will want to work on. I hope so because I’m dying to see a scene like this



How do you think Namor would fit into the marvel u? I don’t think they would need a universe reset like they might when they put the mutants in