World Webbing formula

[White_widow]

Also, you have to think about tensile strength, assuming you were using silk. nylon 6/10 was the first nylon and was as strong or stronger than silk. Spidroin and fibroin are not even in the same league assuming that you were to get it.

If you want to harvest spidroin, best of luck. Spiders eat eachother.

If you want to harvest silkworms. Hit it with your best shot, but it's going to be rather weak, and you won't be able to get a lot of it.

 

[nolder]

Also, you have to think about tensile strength, assuming you were using silk. nylon 6/10 was the first nylon and was as strong or stronger than silk. Spidroin and fibroin are not even in the same league assuming that you were to get it.

If you want to harvest spidroin, best of luck. Spiders eat eachother.

If you want to harvest silkworms. Hit it with your best shot, but it's going to be rather weak, and you won't be able to get a lot of it.

"... best of luck. spiders eat each other". made me laugh

Let me know if this is wrong, but could we prevent clogging by using co2 cartridges? we could make the web shooters so the co2 pressurizes the web fluid. then after it is fired, we use remaining pressure in the co2 cartrige to push out whatever web fluid is left. the remaining web fluid will probably come out in spurts in a similar way to when you're using a near empty aerosol can.

the easiest way to do this would be to have a fluid reservoir that is not pressurized that is gravity fed into a pressure chamber. in this way, it would work in a similar way to a watergun except the pressure is generated by the co2 rather than a hand pump.

 

[clyde]

Alright thanks for your help guys. I'll post up my webshooter design when its done on computer.

 

[White_widow]

I may be hard on your interpretation of the formula, but it's because everyone wants to swing. I've heard about your turbine design. while there's one part of it that I disagree with, I really like it. I think your design really has a strong basis.

 

[Iron_spider]

Oh, the things you stumble upon when going back to step one. I just spent a while searching for new polymers and plastics that might help us, with no success. BUT, just as I was getting frustrated and was about to give up, I decided to go back to the basics. Since we're using acetone as our solvent (for now), I decided to read up on it again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone

And then I saw it. I scrolled down to "Solvent use" and it was in the VERY FIRST SENTENCE.

Polycarbonate.

So I thought, "Eh, I've never heard of it before. Maybe I'll click on it."
So I did. And what I found got me very interested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycarbonate

If you look on the right side of the page, you can it's tensile strength under "Mechanical properties." 55-75 MPa. Exactly what we're aiming for. But that wasn't enough for me. I had to find more. So I starting googling like a madman, and this is what I found:

"The addition of glass fibers to polycarbonate significantly increases the tensile strength, flexural strength, flexural modulus, and heat deflection temperature of the polycarbonate."

If we found the right company that sells this stuff, we wouldn't even have to worry about trying to bond the fibers to the formula ourselves. It's sold that way.

So then I thought this had to be to good to be true. It's probably mega-expensive, right? Wrong. It's anywhere from $4-6 a pound.

So here's an overview of the amazing PC (polycarbonate):
-soluble in acetone
-great tensile strength
-easy to increase tensile strength
-cheap

Well there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. Polycarbonate.

 

[White_widow]

Good stuff iron. Good stuff. I have some polycarbonate (it's a type of plastic glass) in my room, but I've never thought about giving it a shot. It's worth some testing. I don't know though. It's not super flexible, but I mean, maybe it might have a good flexibility in a fiber form. You should give that a shot. ^^

Back to polystyrene experiments. I think I've realized something. (The STLA made is less brittle and a bit stronger, but it was still way too stiff.) Polymers are made for specific jobs, and to make it something else will take equipment to reformulate the natural order.

Polystyrene is for foams and films. Nylon is for part casting and fibers. I've been trying so hard to turn this foam/film material into a fiber. I should be messing with plastics that crosslink due to pressure forcing hydroxyl groups to bond together.

 

[spidey44]

Polycarbonate is something I've passed over many times, but never thought to use it in the formula, thanks Iron Spider.

 

[GizmoGuy]

wow guys ive followed this from the beggining and im impressed you guys come up with the wildest yet amazing results (get it amazing as in "amazing spiderman) so yeah im not far from your age guys so i might as well do a webshooter my self if.i appreciate all your efforts in making kids dreams come true.

 

[MSaleem]

Hhhh

 

[MSaleem]

Im new here, and can you guys catch me up on all the stuff... i read all the way to page 1 - 9 thx, ill be helping out on this project!!!

 

[MSaleem]

So, polycarbonite, how would we make that into a fluid? It is after all a solid right?

 

[MSaleem]

Look What I Found??? Interesting:
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/nanocomposite.html

Its Stretchy and Its Strong

 

[White_widow]

Sup MSaleem. Can I call you Sal? anyway welcome to the project. Here we are discussing various possible polymer dopes and gels that can be spun into strong adhesive fibers.

If you decide to use crystals and pellets, you're going to need a way to heat them up.

We are trying to focus on biodegradable, strong polymers that can be dissolved in harmless or weak solvents like water and acetone. Our best bets so far are biodegradable polyesters, polyvinyl alcohol, and cellulose acetate. Those will produce our strength.

This is only part of the formula though.

The web fluid formula in simple terms is: Polymer + elastomer+ strong adhesive = webbing

Luckily, we've determined that the adhesive we will want is the same kind in duct tape, a pressure sensitive adhesive which is simple a blend of rubbers. So the webbing has been simplified to a polymer and a special rubber.

As you pointed out, this artificial material that you posted is strong and resilient because it is a crystalline material impeded into an elastomer. Basically, we are trying to make that. The crystalline polymer in our case is most likely going to be cellulose as it's biodegradable and as strong as steel or kevlar in some forms. The rubber in this is most likely going to be a blend of polyvinyl alcohol and polyisoprene, both of which are strong, biodegradable, and tacky.

 

[MSaleem]

Yah you can call me that. Ok so, we know that we are using acetate to dissolve the polymer (right plz correct me) so we need a sticky substance: in order to use duct tape, we would have to melt it, and mix it with the polymer. I just though of this. If the substance is liquid, how is it gonna turn to solid when it comes out of the trigger? Oxygen reaction.
How are we gonna mix the stuff together? Heat? Dissolve?

 

[IM GONNA WEB U]

The formula that symbiote man created at the 3-4 pages would that work for just shooting webs work if you changed it a little bit? If it doesnt can you please give me a formula of just to shoot web balls that are sticky, stretchy, strong, and can expand

 

[MSaleem]

Simple, build one, using lets say CO2 cartridges. But I cant get into too much detail here cause this is a web formula thread. Go to the main thread and to the link from there. Hope It Helps

 

[IM GONNA WEB U]

That expands on impact

 

[IM GONNA WEB U]

Do you guys have a formula for web balls?

 

[White_widow]

I agree: 4:30-4:46

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CNru80rvQc&feature=relmfu

I've made a type of strand that creates a film that bursts when you touch it though. I bet that you could make paint balls that encase wet polymers, but other than that, I have nothin for you Igwu.

 

[MSaleem]

I have an idea that I have been researching about. The Polymer can be BIODEGRADABLE PLASTICS MELTED, but I need to find a way to keep it that way. Will acetone work with biodegradable plastics? If so great! The adhesive should be a PSA (Pressure Sensitive Adhesive), or Gorilla Glue. Gorilla Glue works really well. It holds 8000lbs with a few drops . The Elastor i thought should be Polyurethane (if that is an elaster). It is pretty flexable, and with a bit more acetone, it might do the trick. If acetone fails with any of the materials, we could use a small flame, but i doubt it would work considering the flame cant always be there, acetone can.

To White Widow
On the web shooter post, you said:
The goal is to dissolve the plastic into a liquid with the consistency of syrup or honey. The plastic will then be extruded. When the extrusion hits the air, the acetone will evaporate. When the acetone evaporates, the liquid will have become a strong fiber with adhesive qualities. A good example of this is this video from 22:17-24:39.

How exactly would you make the acetone evaporate completly?. That is the most difficult problem I am having right now. Once the fluid leaves the valve, the acetone will still be traveling with the formula. Any suggestions?

Thanks to everyone for the feedback

 

[White_widow]

Well, Polyurethane is a little hard and it needs water to react, but it's worth a shot. The biopolymers take a long time to crosslink. I would make a copolymer if you were to go that route.

As for acetone evaporation, there are several ways to accomplish this goal.

1.) make an insulated heating system.
2.)make the fibers finer so that it dissolves quicker.
3.) instead of acetone, use a propellant as a solvent.
4.)live in a place like mexico or arizona where it's 100 degrees Fahrenheit all the time.

 

[IM GONNA WEB U]

Thank you for the great ideas

 

[IM GONNA WEB U]

So what spider tech is saying is that we need the right muscles in our wrist to actually shoot out webs?

 

[MSaleem]

I dont think that we need the right muscles or anything, but there might be a little recoil or pump when we shoot if it goes at a fast enough speed. I think thats what your talking about.

 

[MSaleem]

White Widow
As for an insulated heating system, i read the link on how to make one, using a mire, and it sounded like it was gonna be big. There would be no room for the shooter. How would you make the fibers for polyurethane finer?