What do people get out of being so cynical?

[CelticPredator]

Watchmen...is not entertainment. Its here to EDUCATE you!11

 

[roach]

Watchmen...is not entertainment. Its here to EDUCATE you!11

First lesson is a kick in the nuts

 

[theJust]

Ignorance is bliss.
To answer the thread's award winning question, because it is decent question albeit a youthful one, it's not a beautiful world out there. But many choose to see good things and others realize the long list of bad things and can't stomach the blissful denial.
To be specific, there is never a perfect movie. Mainly cause everything created has it's downside. You personally can find Watchmen the movie, perfect enough to watch everyday. It seems most have, marking it 9/10 all over this place.

But I don't. I didn't find The Dark Knight perfect, not even my favorite movies are perfect 10/10. But this has to be judged on transferring the story from page to screen, and I will give credit for matching visuals and a massive scale attempt, it fails to capture the particular mood and the study of the characters.
This never was the crown holder of greatest superhero stories, it was a dissection of masked men and their morals.
The movie is simply a movie. it's not the worst thing, but it by far not the best thing.
It was handled by an visual action director, not a storyteller.
So you receive the faithful vision, but what's missing is the point, the spirit of it all.

 

[theJust]

People who know me know me as one cynical MF on these boards... the bottom line for me is... I just think you need a draw that line somewhere... what are you looking for in these films? What are your expectations? To me, a Watchmen film was never going to work. Or it would never live up to what it should have been. That's why I came down hard on this film. It ultimately failed to reach my expectations from the fans, critics, and people perceiving the film. It just comes down to what you are looking for.

If you guys just want to be entertainined for a few hours then many of these films work for you. But for me, if you do not give me a film that goes above and beyond, a film that pushes the boundaries, elevates the material or the genre... a film like TDK... only then will it be worthwhile. Otherwise don't even bother. I am not going to be Hollywood's dog on a leash where I am being dragged back to these adaptations, action franchise tentpoles, comicbook films, superhero films at every opportunity. Fox has pulled this stunt too many times... Sony pulled it with SM3... and in my gut, I feel WB jumped for a quick paycheck when they went with the guy who was certain to bring them money after 300. You have to draw the line somewhere.

Excellent. This sums up where the 9/10s are coming from. I want to be entertained always. But more importantly I want to be challenged.

 

[CelticPredator]

The film delt with good moral issues. Is killing millions to save billions good? Or does it deform mankind? What is exacly evil? Will war ever stop?

 

[theJust]

The film delt with good moral issues. Is killing millions to save billions good? Or does it deform mankind? What is exacly evil? Will war ever stop?

The novel does this in spades...

 

[CelticPredator]

Yeah. So? The movie does as well. So good.

 

[theJust]

Yeah. So? The movie does as well. So good.

But where's Adrian's reaction to succeeding or begging for approval from Jon ?
We get nothing out of Adrian himself! It loses it's point if the character has no reaction to what he has done.

 

[Frodo]

The way I see if you like it: good , if you don't like it: fine. There's no point at being mad because someone was or wasn't satisfied with Watchmen. It's like getting pissed off at someone who doesn't like your favorite food. As long as you enjoyed it that's all that matters imo.

 

[FaT_tONle]

Ignorance is bliss.
To answer the thread's award winning question, because it is decent question albeit a youthful one, it's not a beautiful world out there. But many choose to see good things and others realize the long list of bad things and can't stomach the blissful denial.
To be specific, there is never a perfect movie. Mainly cause everything created has it's downside. You personally can find Watchmen the movie, perfect enough to watch everyday. It seems most have, marking it 9/10 all over this place.

But I don't. I didn't find The Dark Knight perfect, not even my favorite movies are perfect 10/10. But this has to be judged on transferring the story from page to screen, and I will give credit for matching visuals and a massive scale attempt, it fails to capture the particular mood and the study of the characters.
This never was the crown holder of greatest superhero stories, it was a dissection of masked men and their morals.
The movie is simply a movie. it's not the worst thing, but it by far not the best thing.
It was handled by an visual action director, not a storyteller.
So you receive the faithful vision, but what's missing is the point, the spirit of it all.

Could not have said it better myself...

 

[CelticPredator]

But where's Adrian's reaction to succeeding or begging for approval from Jon ?
We get nothing out of Adrian himself! It loses it's point if the character has no reaction to what he has done.

Uh....yeah he does. Everyone leaves him behind. He thinks about what Dan says.

 

[theJust]

Uh....yeah he does. Everyone leaves him behind. He thinks about what Dan says.

Thinks about it?? I'm sorry in a movie, a character needs to emote. An actor can think about, but there needs to be more going on for the audience. And in terms of this story since it's supposedly all about the characters, Adrian needs to react. Or else it's dead silence, and that doesn't inform me of any emotion or thought.

 

[Showtime]

What do people get out of being so cynical?

Maybe the same thing some people get out of worshipping every aspect of the movie or seeing no wrong?

 

[CelticPredator]

He should totally just break down and start sobbing and sucking his thumb......



Like in the book.

 

[theJust]

Okay, you need to read the book again.

 

[CelticPredator]

I just did. He mulls over. He shows little emotion. Maybe that of regret....but nothing extreme.

 

[CelticPredator]

The book is right in front of me. The last panel of Ozy is him standing with his back turned mulling over what John just said.

 

[블라스]

What do people get out of being so cynical?

Maybe the same thing some people get out of worshipping every aspect of the movie or seeing no wrong?

Heh...I doubt it's "the same thing".
The movie does have some flaws, no one has said otherwise. I think all of us who "worship" the movie have stated that, but whatever...

 

[FaT_tONle]

The book is right in front of me. The last panel of Ozy is him standing with his back turned mulling over what John just said.

I thought that scene was Ozy's best scene in the novel.

 

[Showtime]

Heh...I doubt it's "the same thing".
The movie does have some flaws, no one has said otherwise. I think all of us who "worship" the movie have stated that, but whatever...

I wasn't necessarily referring to "you" personally or "Watchmen Fans" but there are large groups of "fanboys" who find no flaws with their films. I think telling people they are too cynical is basically telling them to settle. I don't think it is being cynical I think it is having an opinion.

 

[theJust]

The soul of Adrian is at his last pages.
Cause it shows his weakness. Like the book intends to do with all it's leads. He's supposedly the smartest man, yet he has his share of uncertainty to admit he doesn't know what would work in the end. The bullet catching, obliterating Jon and his master plan. It leaps out of him when he does succeed the master stroke, "I did it!" With everything done according to plan, he still needs to ask the only being he feels on the level with, "I did the right thing didn't I?"

 

[War Party]

If people weren't cynical, then how would we discuss things here?

 

[블라스]

I wasn't necessarily referring to "you" personally or "Watchmen Fans" but there are large groups of "fanboys" who find no flaws with their films. I think telling people they are too cynical is basically telling them to settle. I don't think it is being cynical I think it is having an opinion.

Those people bother me just as much as the endless complainers.
Yeah, I don't really think that not being cynical = settling, we're gonna have to disagree there.
Of course everyone has an opinion, we're not trying to have a fascist state here, but that's no exactly what I meant with my original post.

 

[FaT_tONle]

With so much cynicism surrounding the film already... I don't think people will honestly end up caring that much years from now... because the people that had not yet read the novel who did not like the movie will probably never go back to read the source material. That is a CONSISTENT problem I find in a lot of these reviews, even though people don't always come out and say that directly... its implied. And that to me is the worst for of criticism you can have. Of course fan boys will debate the film for eons... but even then... those of us who have read the novel recently who never cared for the novel before won't end up caring about this film either. But at least we have the source material.

 

[bullets]

I don't mind cynicism usually but it gets to the point where people take jabs for the hell of it . Now there are going to be endless debates from the logical to the mundane . The main thing that bothers me is some will make a comparison to the graphic novel and be wrong so anyone casually scrolling through might be led to believe something that isn't true.
Watchmen is fun and definately worth watching but it isn't the best movie ever made and neither is gone with the wind.