First Avenger Why are guys shocked when I say this film was MUCH better than TDK?

[CConn]

I won't see the tree of life again but i know it deserved the palme d'ore

....but if you could see the tree of life...wouldn't you? The point is I can see Black Swan any time I want, and I gleefully choose not to.

Inception had a totally different type of depth than Black Swan. Everything meant something in Inception. Limbo being a beach, the totems, the train, the characters...it's endless.

Black Swan did a great job sowing obsession and madness...but its "Easter Eggs" weren't nearly as numerous.

 

[Doomed_hero]

I enjoyed both films. If you break them down they have similar themes. Both are about good vs evil and holding onto your true self when given power or faced with loss and violence. The movies go about it in a different way, but I find it hard to compare them since cap was more a origin story and TDK a sequel. Batman Begins would be a better comparison. Both have there flaws( yes TDK has flaws) but I like them both for different reasons and I belive superhero movies need to be as diverse as the comics are. I dont want every hero to be like cap, I dont want every hero to be as dark as batman. When I see a Spider-Man movie, I want the tone to be that of a spider-man movie which can be fun and dark at the same time.

 

[Lord]

....but if you could see the tree of life...wouldn't you? The point is I can see Black Swan any time I want, and I gleefully choose not to.

Inception had a totally different type of depth than Black Swan. Everything meant something in Inception. Limbo being a beach, the totems, the train, the characters...it's endless.

Black Swan did a great job sowing obsession and madness...but its "Easter Eggs" weren't nearly as numerous.

No, that's my point, i know it's better than most the things i see but for me it's boring, that doesn't mean it didn't deserve it's prizes

 

[spider13]

what are you to talking about?

 

[Shadowlord X]

Further up it was stated that tdk had 'a certain level of depth and emotional impact' that CAP lacked despite it's tremendous rewatchability.

You see that's an interesting statement because many people, myself included, feel exactly the opposite.

I found CAP had tremendous depth and emotional impact that is still with me days after I watched it for the 5th time and makes me want to see it again.

I can safely say that tdk had absolutely no emotional impact on me whatsoever. I really found tdk to be just dull uninteresting crap that denied me one of the fundamental joys of this genre. That is to feel myself leaving the mundane reality and be taken to an exciting fantasy version of our world.

I think tdk may have depth to people who rarely think about anything but the superficial ongoings of their personal lives. As someone who thinks about deeper things concerning society and mankind on a regular basis the claims of tdk's depth fail completely.

If someone can really say that coming out of tdk that you learned something profound I would love to know just what that is.



The problem that has caused this thread to arise and why there is so much antagonism on these boards is that nolan-worshipers / tdk lovers have an intolerable attitude. They lurk on forums, comments sections, etc., that have nothing to do with Batman and when they hear people saying how much they loved _______ (insert CBM) and that this was the best CMB in their opinion, these guys leap out and spew forth some tripe about tdk and try to shoot down opinions that don't agree with theirs.

I don't go on the Batman forums because I am not a lover of the nolanverse franchise. Thus there is no reason for me to be there. I will express my opinion of tdk to people who share similar opinions on other threads. The moment I do so some nolan-worshipper (that I was not talking to) leaps out at me in an antagonistic fashion.

I don't understand why they cannot stay on the Bat-forums and chant to each other there.

 

[Raiden]

Captain America's best chance at reaching the depth of TDK is a sequel with a man out of time theme.

One thing Cap definitely had going for it over The Dark Knight was that when Rachel Dawes died, I felt absolutely nothing. When I knew Cap and Peggy were about to be seperated, I got a bit emotional, even though I knew it was coming.

Cap is plucky and full of heart; The Dark Knight is cerebral and brooding. I'd say TDK is ultimately the better film, but there are definitely things I can get out of Cap that I can't out of The Dark Knight.

I agree. While I enjoy TDK, I think Nolan's handling of the relationship between Bruce Wayne and Rachel Dawes to be completely flat. Maybe it has to do with the recast of Dawes, but the I think deeper issue is that Nolan has never, in any of his movies, paid good attention to romance. After Dawes died, and Batman standing in the rubbles of the burnt building, head downcast, you were supposed to feel Wayne's sorrow for a woman whom he (supposed) to have loved all his life. Yet I felt alot more emotions during the scene when Steve Rogers and Peggy Carter were talking in his doomed flight, even though they both tried to put on a brave face. It's one of the things that Nolan made a half-hearted attempt and the result shows.

 

[Spidey220987]

I didn't even like Heath Ledger's portrayal of The Joker, that was hyped to death.
In my opinion, it wasn't that impressive. Good, but not as good as it's made out to be.
Same with TDK as a whole. Everytime I try to re-watch it, I end up falling asleep.

Iron Man, now that is what you call a comic book movie.
In my opinion, it's the best one.
Actually, I prefer Iron Man 2 (don't get why it gets a lot of hate).
But if you disregard Iron Man 2, Iron Man has to be the best, in my opinion.

And to the thread starter, I've been there before on another forum.
I said I preferred Eckhart to Ledger in TDK and got slated.
Was told Spider-Man 2 had many inconsistencies, but when I told of the inconsistencies & plotholes in TDK, surprise suprise, they were overlooked!

You can't win this one. Even though, I agree with you!
And no, I don't care about the whole Marvel-DC war, I take a film for what it is.
Just happens to be that the Marvel film(s) are better than TDK, in my opinion.

 

[Pinky021]

I liked TDK, Heath's performance was awesome, I only saw the Joker, I didn't see Heath at all,, But I loved Cap!,, Chris is Captain America,, it's a ligther movie, great acting by all of the actors, a lot of emotions, good action,, and what was great, Cap did kill bad guys!,, unlike Batman with his moral rule...

 

[truth]

I think the problem is that Nolan thinks he is ABOVE Batman and more important than it, and so-called batman fans accept it.

Granted, not all Marvel films have been great, but at least their heroes are the centre-piece of the films. I can GUARANTEE that if a sequel is made of Captain America, he won't be lost like how Batman was lost in TDK. The fans of the film come with some BS about how its about the effect the villains have on Batman... No, I paid for a BATMAN movie, not Nolan's attempt to copy shots from Point Break and Heat

 

[CConn]

problem that has caused this thread to arise and why there is so much antagonism on these boards is that nolan-worshipers / tdk lovers have an intolerable attitude. They lurk on forums, comments sections, etc., that have nothing to do with Batman and when they hear people saying how much they loved _______ (insert CBM) and that this was the best CMB in their opinion, these guys leap out and spew forth some tripe about tdk and try to shoot down opinions that don't agree with theirs.

I don't go on the Batman forums because I am not a lover of the nolanverse franchise. Thus there is no reason for me to be there. I will express my opinion of tdk to people who share similar opinions on other threads. The moment I do so some nolan-worshipper (that I was not talking to) leaps out at me in an antagonistic fashion.

I don't understand why they cannot stay on the Bat-forums and chant to each other there.

um, no offense, but it's not Batman fans that's the problem. It's the fact that these boards are comprised largely of 14yo geeks (and I say that with love, I was one once) who need common sense almost as badly as they need a tube of Clean and Clear.

Everyone has to have the biggest cock of the walk or else they start feeling slighted, and if you dont align yourself with the vigor of an Islamic fundamentalist to their favorite hero, then you're an enemy.

And you're falling into that same vicious cycle yourself by thinking Batman fans are somehow worse than anyone else. They're not Jews and we're not Nazis. Or visa versa.

 

[jmc]

I think the problem is that Nolan thinks he is ABOVE Batman and more important than it, and so-called batman fans accept it.

Granted, not all Marvel films have been great, but at least their heroes are the centre-piece of the films. I can GUARANTEE that if a sequel is made of Captain America, he won't be lost like how Batman was lost in TDK. The fans of the film come with some BS about how its about the effect the villains have on Batman... No, I paid for a BATMAN movie, not Nolan's attempt to copy shots from Point Break and Heat

I'm sorry but that's a complete load of crap, Nolan doesn't think he's above anything, he's just been given more freedom to do as he wishes and results speak for themselves and us as Batman fans appreciate it. If any of the directors of Marvel's films were given the same amount of freedom the films would be look, feel, and have been executed completely different, the stories would most likely bare little resemblance to what we got. And the argument that TDK is not a Batman movie is an absurd comment and frankly one I'm sick and tired of hearing used as a negative toward the film. So Bruce Wayne isn't the driving force behind the plot, so what? Batman is more than just Bruce Wayne in a suit, it encompasses the entirety of Gotham city and all it's people, the entire mythology is in play. It's funny to me when people complain that the lead character gets shorts changed in film yet there are plenty of stories in comics where the lead character plays little or even no part yet barely a sound is heard. Looking at the mythology as a whole as a reference as opposed to focusing on the main character all the time you open yourself up to bigger and better stories for film, you limit yourself if you're constantly focused on the lead character especially if there's a strong supporting cast of characters at your disposal.

 

[Lord]

what are you to talking about?

Why i tought black was deserved best picture but i'll understand if you all don't think the same.
I'm also tired of defending TDK in this thread, TDK haters are becoming as anoying as Nolan lovers, and it's embarrassing to see that they're on the same level as those that think TDK is the best thing in the world.
Like with Nolan lovers it doesn't matter how much we explain something, in this case that TDK was a tad better than cap (it differs in coments, but my opinion is that cap wasn't as good, sorry), their opinions won't change and they will continue to just listen their oun opinions.
I'm out

In least i hope so

 

[Stripesy Strip]

Nolan is pretty much a master, Johnston sure is not. Nolan planned every single beats in his movie, pre-planned everything and wrote and directed it and it gives you a masterwork. While Johnston is still a hired gun, he doesn't come in there as the sole creator of this piece. And it shows. All Marvel movies are like this. It's factory movie-making. Cap was a good movie, it was well done, but there wasn't anything that would throw you on your butt. The story was rather simplistic, Rogers becomes Cap, Red Skull wants the cosmic cube. Cap stops him from using it. The End.

Also we never know what to expect from Nolan's Batman films. So we are even more surprised by what we see. Compared to the Cap movie where we already knew the origin, the story, so it's hard to surprise.

 

[truth]

Strip, do WB pay you to say such stuff about Nolan? He PLANNED it like a master? haha.
Johnston directed a far greater richer, and more visually stimulating piece than both Batmans put together

 

[Stripesy Strip]

cap had one movie so yeah it's going to inbody the ch. the dark knight is a sequal.

First I must say I love weaving, He made the matrix movies he made v. He once again showed me personly that the man can act when he played the red skull but the red skull was not written the greatest. evens beats bail every time. the music was better in the dark knight. the joker was a better villain then the red skull. Now I might be bioeist but to me the villain is my fav. part of the movie aka. Mr. smith from the matrix, freddy from a nightmare on elm street. mr. potter form it's a wounderful life. norman bates from psycho. vader form star wars. the list could go on. so villain to me is one of the most important parts of the movie.

Bear in mind, your post is hard to decypher but I think Weaver was left with his kister in the rain. He didn't have much to work with as far as material. All they had him to is talk a bit with Cap and go after the cube. That's it.

 

[Stripesy Strip]

Strip, do WB pay you to say such stuff about Nolan? He PLANNED it like a master? haha.
Johnston directed a far greater richer, and more visually stimulating piece than both Batmans put together

Cap is my favorite character so no. But if you feel that Cao is somewhat far richer than DK then I know movies more than you. What was visualy stimulating about Captain America? Name one memorable fight scene. One.

 

[D4rkShaDoWz]

Cap is my favorite character so no. But if you feel that Cao is somewhat far richer than DK then I know movies more than you. What was visualy stimulating about Captain America? Name one memorable fight scene. One.

- Caps in pursuit of Red Skull on his motorcycle - leads into huge fight scene
- The hangar when the plane takes off - fight scene with Red Skull and redshirts.

Honestly, the only visually stimulating scenes in TDK were the scenes shot in IMAX. The chase scene looks amazing when watched on an HDTV and the IMAX details are still noticeable, even though the resolution is far smaller.

This argument is moot - every one has a different idea of what is a great movie

For me, I need action and story in a movie to be considered great. Cap is a great action film and looks gorgeous to watch. If anyone thinks that TDK has more action than Iron Man or Cap, then something is seriously wrong.

 

[truth]

Cap is my favorite character so no. But if you feel that Cao is somewhat far richer than DK then I know movies more than you. What was visualy stimulating about Captain America? Name one memorable fight scene. One.

HAHA! Are you being serious?

ALL the fight scenes were shot well and were great and you could see what was happening.

I dare you, DARE you to name ONE fight scene in both batman films were you could see what was happening.

 

[truth]

- Caps in pursuit of Red Skull on his motorcycle - leads into huge fight scene
- The hangar when the plane takes off - fight scene with Red Skull and redshirts.

Honestly, the only visually stimulating scenes in TDK were the scenes shot in IMAX. The chase scene looks amazing when watched on an HDTV and the IMAX details are still noticeable, even though the resolution is far smaller.

Just take a look at D4rkShaDoWz's avatar. That in itself is more visually stimulating than anything in tdk

 

[Liam_H]

I think the problem is that Nolan thinks he is ABOVE Batman and more important than it, and so-called batman fans accept it.

Granted, not all Marvel films have been great, but at least their heroes are the centre-piece of the films. I can GUARANTEE that if a sequel is made of Captain America, he won't be lost like how Batman was lost in TDK. The fans of the film come with some BS about how its about the effect the villains have on Batman... No, I paid for a BATMAN movie, not Nolan's attempt to copy shots from Point Break and Heat

Nolan did focus on the Batman character, that was in Begins. In the TDK it was a progression of the story with whatever happened before being carried over.

 

[Lord]

HAHA! Are you being serious?

ALL the fight scenes were shot well and were great and you could see what was happening.

I dare you, DARE you to name ONE fight scene in both batman films were you could see what was happening.

So captain america was better because it had better fight scennes

 

[truth]

put it like this, if you have read, drawn or appreciate the artistry in comics, this is not even a debate. Cap movie looked like a damn comic while TDk was a guy wearing a commando bat costume running around Chicago

 

[truth]

So captain america was better because it had better fight scennes

Better acting across the board

better story

better direction (including better directed fight scenes and action scenes)

much better lead

better music

better screenplay

 

[Lord]

put it like this, if you have read, drawn or appreciate the artistry in comics, this is not even a debate. Cap movie looked like a damn comic while TDk was a guy wearing a commando bat costume running around Chicago

It was movie, not a comic book, yet was able to stay true to the the comics, HELL, why am i talking? I tried to explain to you, it didn't work, others did the same, it didn't work.
This entire Thread is a FLAMING war!!!

 

[truth]

It TRIED to be regular movie and was too preachy and told you exactly what you were supposed to think WORD FOR WORD, and staying true to the comics? Batman looking like a black lightbulb? yeah.....

Johnston EXCEEDED the comics and has now set the standard for what Cap America should be, much like what Burton did with batman