Why Hal Jordan and John Stewart are the only options to use in a Green Lantern movie

[GL1]

Your other points in your argument were valid except for this one. Let's not get it twisted. The favoring or pejudice on racial lines is by definition racism -- even if it is natural. If society is to advance, they must learn tolerance and be willing to accept change. The value of this is that it helps spawn variation and innovation in society. I don't think we should encourage racism by saying that it is acceptable because it is "normal" and "natural". This could then be construed as a rite (which it is not) and would only embolden those who practice it and further their cause. One of the things that made the acient Greeks such a great society was the fact that they were willing to accept the values and customs of other cultures. By adopting such a policy would only aid in helping our society move in the direction of progress as well.

I'm happy to be wrong on this issue... thank you for the correction. It is unhealthy for society to excuse racism.

 

[dnno1]

Your welcome, GL1. I do like your other points.

 

[terry78]

True enough, when most people think of the Green Lantern, they do automatically think of "the white dude." Thing is, they have no idea what the **** their names are. Kyle/Hal are interchangeable among the masses.

 

[StorminNorman]

I will say this to you one more time just so it sets in, 18-24 year olds DON'T WATCH CARTOONS.

The key is though that while 18-24 year olds normally don't watch cartoons, man 8-15 year olds do. Justice League has been on for five years. That means it is reasonable that a good amount of that 18-20 year old crowd did grow up watching the Justice League and would be familure with John Stuart as the GL. Hell, it wouldn't even take watching the show to be familure with him, just going to Six Flags, or seeing a Justice League commercial. While most 18-24 year olds don't watch cartoons, even less read comic books which means that even those who do not think of the Green Latern as being black, don't think of him being white - they simply have no idea who he is at all.

I think John Stuart would be the smart choice IF WB went with a movie centered around a single GL. Of course modifications would have to be made with his background, but that could easily be done. Using John Stuart would give WB to introduce a black Superhero - a move that I do not believe would alienate many normal superhero movie goers. Atleast I would want to believe that America is in a position to be able to support a black Superhero.

 

[GreenLantern1]

A Green Lantern movie should not have only one Lantern in it. It should be more of a team film with Hal, John, and Guy being the main charachters. They need to think Star Wars when they are making this. This movie should be huge.

 

[GL1]

You didn't because your argument is based on the flawed logic that our generation watches Justice League. They don't. They are probably more familiar with what was on the Superfriends than JLU, and even then not that familiar. Those who have come across the Green Lantern however would only know of a classic incarnation, one that has an icon status. Something they have brushed over in a magazine. There is something called the theory of threes. That something must appear in three different places before it sets into people's minds. Spider-Man Ben Reily for example only appeared really in the comics (and one episode of Spider-Man), therefore most people are not familiar with him. Hal appears predominently in print and imagery related to GL, not just a show like Jon. There is also a theory relating to origins of characters as well. The theory is quiet simple. It simply states the first is always the most famous. Peter Parker, Frank Castle, Clark Kent, etc. is always associated with Spider-Man, Punisher and Superman because the origin of the character revolves around them. Hal Jordan is the same.

I will say this to you one more time just so it sets in, 18-24 year olds DON'T WATCH CARTOONS. You can deny it, you can make yourself feel better about your rabid cartoon watching by saying it is true....but it isn't I don't even watch cartoons, and I like comics. None of my roomates watch cartoons, I have never been invited to a cartoon watching party (unlike with 24, Sports and Movies). Therefore unless your 5-9 years old, and don't play video games all damn day, you've never heard of Jon Stewart. You probably don't know Hal Jordan, but I have a friend with a big Jon Stewart poster on his wall and everytime I see him my friends ask "shouldn't that guy be white?". So no, no one is familiar with Jon, no one who doesn't watch JLU or read comics. The general audience would be much less surprised by Hal than Jon. In fact there was a poll before GL:Rebirth on IGN asking who people thought should be Green Lantern: 52 % said Hal, the rest said Kyle.

My arguement is based on the idea that many people have been exposed to the Justice League somehow or another, which also keeps with your unproven theory of threes. My arguement was also accompanied by questions which you have failed to answer.

For instance, how is Hal Jordan appearing in any magazines... ever? Perhaps you should ask your roomate where he saw Hal Jordan. You may also need to assume that he didn't learn it from you (directly or indirectly).

Furthermore, not only is your roomate NOT representative of the general audience, IGN isn't either... it caters to a tech-saavy internet geeks, many of which, thus, would be likely to be familiar with comic books, and we all know among comics fans, Hal Jordan is the (one true, greatest, perfect etc) GL. No news there, and absolutely no reflection on the general populace. Again, your roomates are not the general populace.

On cartoons:
I have seen the media room at college filled everyday to the brim when Dragonball Z, a cartoon comes on. However, this is not enough evidence to say that all 18-24 year olds watch cartoons (which I didn't say, much less Justice League). We cannot use these personal experience with a few localized hundred people in one community to predict activites and thoughts of hundreds of millions of people around the country, or around the world. We will need more than personal experience (or video game site polls) to prove that:

So no, no one is familiar with Jon

or

The general audience would be much less surprised by Hal than Jon.

Isolated personal experiences are just too biased and too limited. You state my arguement is invalid because:

...your argument is based on the flawed logic that our generation watches Justice League.

And yet you will fail to find this statement in my post. You may have miscontstrued this statement:

Did they get it from watching the WB cartoons? In the age range of 18-24 you betcha...

Which not only refers to the Batman and possibly Superman cartoons that appeared on the WB, but is so far down, you know it can't possibly be the base of my arguement.

My questions and arguement stand.

ps. speaking of questions, my friend uppost here brings up a good point... what's so special about the 18-24 age range?

 

[DarKush]

After reading over some of these posts, I see the arguments that 'most' people know Hal Jordan for GL, or are more familiar with the 'classical' rendering of the GL character.

If that is true, and that is debatable, I think WB's marketing arm could familiarize and introduce, if need be, John Stewart to the masses. It would have to be done for any Alan Scott, Hal Jordan, or Kyle Raynor movie too.

John Stewart is a Green Lantern as much as Scott, Jordan, or Raynor. He has a notable comics history, and is perhaps currently the most visable due to his spot on the JLU cartoon.

I'm not all that familiar with his origin, but I read that at least one poster had a problem with it. However, the origin can be tweaked or updated. It's not the first time a comic book movie has taken liberties with a hero origin story.

(Ex. In Spider-Man, changing the radioactive spider to a genetically engineered one. Making Peter's webbing a part of him, rather than cooked up by Peter. Also, in Batman, having the Joker murder Bruce Wayne's parents. How Bruce Banner was exposed to gamma radiation in The Hulk is another example.)

I do think it's time to see another Black superhero on the silver screen. John Stewart would be a good pick. If WB took a chance, hopefully the majority audience would respond positively, like they with the Blade films.

 

[dnno1]

... what's so special about the 18-24 age range?

I think that statistics show that they are usually the highest proportion of movie-goers (actually it's the age 12-29 demographic which make up 57% of movie-goers). This is based on statistics presented by the MPAA (see their 2005 Movie Attendance Study). Although people aged 18 and up do watch cartoons (a July 2005 USA Today article indicates that the Fox show Family Guy is targeted to viewers aged 18-49), the viewer age group of a show like Justice League Unlimited ranges from aged 9-14 and its market size is about 400-600 thousand (see these press releases from Cartoon Network here and here). If you will need about 14 million viewers to break even on an $80 million film (just divide that number by the average price of a movie ticket, which is $6), that would not be large enough market to target (even if you add in the 70-80 thousand readers of the comic book). That's why I suggested targeting the Science Fiction/Fantasy demographic. From what I have read Star Trek fans make up a market the size of some third world countries and have some very wealthy names associated with it. Imagine the size if you would combine that with fans from shows like "Battle Star Galactica", "Star Wars", and "Star Gate"? Thats not even counting the fantasy side of the house. I think this film should be a space-based action thriller with an ensemble cast. It should be about the Green Lantern Corps and could have the Hal Jordan/Parallax theme as a subplot. Then you could stem your trillogy from that.

 

[Katsuro]

I'm not all that familiar with his origin, but I read that at least one poster had a problem with it. However, the origin can be tweaked or updated. It's not the first time a comic book movie has taken liberties with a hero origin story.

(Ex. In Spider-Man, changing the radioactive spider to a genetically engineered one. Making Peter's webbing a part of him, rather than cooked up by Peter. Also, in Batman, having the Joker murder Bruce Wayne's parents. How Bruce Banner was exposed to gamma radiation in The Hulk is another example.)

This is why I do not want John Stewart. His origin story just doens't work, and I dont like the idea of them changing it to fit a movie (since I know they'd just give him Hal's). They did it on S:TAS too, they named him Kyle Rayner, but gave him Hal's classic Abin Sur origin. I'm just tired of comics changing crap that doens't need to be changed, and Hal has a very nice origin that could work rather easily on film.

Besides, you use John, who's gonna be the villain? Sinestro is Hal's archnemesis, always has been. I think a Hal vs. Sinestro would be much more appealing than John vs. some random unheard of GL villain.

 

[DarKush]

This is why I do not want John Stewart. His origin story just doens't work, and I dont like the idea of them changing it to fit a movie (since I know they'd just give him Hal's). They did it on S:TAS too, they named him Kyle Rayner, but gave him Hal's classic Abin Sur origin. I'm just tired of comics changing crap that doens't need to be changed, and Hal has a very nice origin that could work rather easily on film.

Besides, you use John, who's gonna be the villain? Sinestro is Hal's archnemesis, always has been. I think a Hal vs. Sinestro would be much more appealing than John vs. some random unheard of GL villain.

Change is the name of the game. I doubt if we will ever see a totally faithful adaptation of a comic to the big screen. They are two different mediums, and will likely be geared to different audiences.

Regarding villian, I've only read a handful of John Stewart GL comics during the early 90s, and I know him best from the JLU cartoon. However, Sinestro could still be used. He is Hal Jordan's nemesis, but he is also an enemy of the Green Lantern Corps.

I'm not up on the GLC villians, but I am sure that there are some that could be used, updated if necessary to make them more lethal. Or other JLU villians. You might use the Manhunters, or Mongul, Despero.

(There was a JLU story about Stewart being put on trial for destroying a planet, that would be pretty cool to see on the big screen, and topical-the ring as WMD, genocide, and other issues like that could be covered.)

Absent that, a villian(s) could possibly be created. Similar to what I hear that Joss Whedon is doing with WW. I am more concerned about TPTB getting John Stewart right, making him engaging and heroic, moreso than the villian.

 

[GL1]

I think that statistics show that they are usually the highest proportion of movie-goers (actually it's the age 12-29 demographic which make up 57% of movie-goers). This is based on statistics presented by the MPAA (see their 2005 Movie Attendance Study). Although people aged 18 and up do watch cartoons (a July 2005 USA Today article indicates that the Fox show Family Guy is targeted to viewers aged 18-49), the viewer age group of a show like Justice League Unlimited ranges from aged 9-14 and its market size is about 400-600 thousand (see these press releases from Cartoon Network here and here). If you will need about 14 million viewers to break even on an $80 million (just divide that number by the average price of a movie ticket, which is $6), so that would not be large enough market to target (even if you add in the 70-80 thousand readers of the comic book). That's why I suggested targeting the Science Fiction/Fantasy demographic. From what I have read Star Trek fans make up a market the size of some third world countries and have some very wealthy names associated with it. Imagine the size if you would combine that with fans from shows like "Battle Star Galactica", "Star Wars", and "Star Gate"? Thats not even counting the fantasy side of the house. I think this film should be a space-based action thriller with an ensemble cast. It should be about the Green Lantern Corps and could have the Hal Jordan/Parallax theme as a subplot. Then you could stem your trillogy from that.

You know, I never gave the Sci-Fi GL angle an honest crack (seemed unlikely). But you have me thinking. Also, I've never seen a post so laden with ACTUAL information. If we all posted like this, well... threads would be shorter I guess.

This is why I do not want John Stewart. His origin story just doens't work, and I dont like the idea of them changing it to fit a movie (since I know they'd just give him Hal's). They did it on S:TAS too, they named him Kyle Rayner, but gave him Hal's classic Abin Sur origin. I'm just tired of comics changing crap that doens't need to be changed, and Hal has a very nice origin that could work rather easily on film.

Besides, you use John, who's gonna be the villain? Sinestro is Hal's archnemesis, always has been. I think a Hal vs. Sinestro would be much more appealing than John vs. some random unheard of GL villain.

Bah. One poster made a big deal about John having to replace Hal and Guy. Didn't Hal replace Abin Sur? Is that correct? So what's the big deal? Can anyone give me something about John's origin that is different from any other GL that would make it "not work?" Can anyone even tell me what they mean when they say "not work?"

As for villains, not only is Sinestro a suitable villain for ALL Green Lanterns, including John Stewart (especially so because of Katma Tui), but Sonar, Fatality, Old Timer (a corrupt Guardian), the Manhunters (dear goodness yes) and Black Hand all make excellent villains for John as well. Oh, and ALL GL villains are unheard of, even Sinestro.

Hmmm... going back to dnno1's comment. The sci-fi angle is awesome. What if, just go with me now... what if Hal AND John could BOTH star in a GL movie... like a duo thing. Let John be the newcomer, the eyes of the skeptical audience into this crazy sci-fi world (kind of like Han Solo was, but questioning instead of so cynical), and let Hal be the one showing the world what Green Lanterndom is all about. Let the trilogy run the Parallax subplot, give us Sinestro and the Manhunters for the First Movie; Black Hand, Fatality and Star Sapphire for the sequel exploring themes of responsibility and Parallax with self-control themes to end the trilogy. The more I think about it, the more GL can't help but turn Sci-Fi... why not start it out that way?

 

[dnno1]

You should have also mentioned the Anti-Green Lantern Corps, The Weaponers of Quard, the Epire of Tears, and Krona. Also I don't see any reason why you couldn't use all of the corp members, especially the ones we do know well from earth.

The Green Lanters of Earth

 

[GL1]

You should have also mentioned the Anti-Green Lantern Corps, The Weaponers of Quard, the Epire of Tears, and Krona. Also I don't see any reason why you couldn't use all of the corp members, especially the ones we do know well from earth.

The Green Lanters of Earth

Well, I'll admit I'm not familiar with all of GL's villains... I tend to include Qward in my head when I mention Sinestro and, well... I just listed the ones I liked.

Also, I don't know how to make five people star equally in a movie... not if they're all working together towards the same goal... I also don't know how to put five earth lanterns together at the same time, in the first movie, while still keeping to the GL mythos. At least... not yet.

Perhaps Kyle can be the new recruit and John, Guy and Hal can already be operating with the GL Corps in various capacities. It feels weird to have so many humans on Oa... are we sure we can't leave a couple earth lanterns til the sequel?

 

[Katsuro]

It feels weird to have so many humans on Oa... are we sure we can't leave a couple earth lanterns til the sequel?

That's what I'd suggest. Start with Hal and the classic Abin Sur origin, have him fight Sinestro in the first film. Then in sequels you could introduce other Lanterns. They just have to keep in line with the mythos. For a long time, the rule was one Lantern per sector, so that's how it should start off. Eventually that rule can be dropped (i'm not sure if the restriction was raised to 2, or dropped altogether) and we can see either John or Guy join. Then Hal can do the Paralax thing, and the next movie can start out with Kyle rebuilding the Corps.

 

[GL1]

That's what I'd suggest. Start with Hal and the classic Abin Sur origin, have him fight Sinestro in the first film. Then in sequels you could introduce other Lanterns. They just have to keep in line with the mythos. For a long time, the rule was one Lantern per sector, so that's how it should start off. Eventually that rule can be dropped (i'm not sure if the restriction was raised to 2, or dropped altogether) and we can see either John or Guy join. Then Hal can do the Paralax thing, and the next movie can start out with Kyle rebuilding the Corps.

I think you're taking me backwards. That's not a very good way to include all of Earth's lanterns. And two lanterns per sector offers better character development (and thus story) and makes much more sense in light of the GL mission and complications they've had. You can read the comics for more information. Also the two-lantern paradigm keeps us from being Hal-centric and engaging in Hal-worship, which ostracizes many GL fans. A bad idea. You agree?

It would be much better for the franchise if Hal and John were in the first one together, and Guy and Kyle came in the second one. I would consider saving Kyle for the last one, but he should be introed in number 2 so as not to come from nowhere. If you hadn't guess, you can't capture 50 years of comics in three movies. You have to translate the storylines, not just transpose them.

 

[dnno1]

Well, I'll admit I'm not familiar with all of GL's villains... I tend to include Qward in my head when I mention Sinestro and, well... I just listed the ones I liked.

Also, I don't know how to make five people star equally in a movie... not if they're all working together towards the same goal... I also don't know how to put five earth lanterns together at the same time, in the first movie, while still keeping to the GL mythos. At least... not yet.

Perhaps Kyle can be the new recruit and John, Guy and Hal can already be operating with the GL Corps in various capacities. It feels weird to have so many humans on Oa... are we sure we can't leave a couple earth lanterns til the sequel?

I don't know if it is necessary to have them to star equally, although if you look at those films which had ensemble casts (Aliens, Battlestar Glactica, Swat, Star Wars, Star Trek, et. al.) you can get an idea how it could work. You could work in Alan Scott as an old sage type character (if you want the role to be physically in the film) or just a comic book reference (like John's favorite comic book character when he was a kid). I think there are ways to make that work. Someone just has to put a little thought into it.

 

[ToddIsDead]

That's what I'd suggest. Start with Hal and the classic Abin Sur origin, have him fight Sinestro in the first film. Then in sequels you could introduce other Lanterns. They just have to keep in line with the mythos. For a long time, the rule was one Lantern per sector, so that's how it should start off. Eventually that rule can be dropped (i'm not sure if the restriction was raised to 2, or dropped altogether) and we can see either John or Guy join. Then Hal can do the Paralax thing, and the next movie can start out with Kyle rebuilding the Corps.

That is always how I wanted the Green Lantern movies to go. That, or an Alan Scott period film.