Will Ireland be independent in our lifetime?

[mightiest_mortal]

The north voting on independance is not guaranteed.....I always thought the catholics were a minority in the North and the protestants were in favor of staying with Britain?

Yeah theyve already done a vote a while back and 98% wanted to stay with Britain..

We'll take Scotland too, cheers.

go for it, we don't want them either.
Don't know why we're meant to be so proud to be part of Britain when everyone else in Britain hates us. We should abandon the dead weight i say. Independance for England WOO

 

[Darthphere]

How can you expect peace from a place called Ireland?

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

How can you expect peace from a place called Ireland?

You make a really good point.

 

[Darthphere]

You make a really good point.

If they were called Rainbow Gum Drop Land, than by all means.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

"Today!!! In THESE trenches.....We soldiers....We MEN.....give our lives, for Rainbow Gumdrop LAaaaAAaaanD!!!1! YaaAAaaAAaaa!!! *attack*"

No, can't see it.

 

[Darthphere]

"Today!!! In THESE trenches.....We soldiers....We MEN.....give our lives, for Rainbow Gumdrop LAaaaAAaaanD!!!1! YaaAAaaAAaaa!!! *attack*"

No, can't see it.

Funny, I can. Battling a horde of Care Bears before reinforcements in the form of Chip N Dale Rescue Rangers riding in on Tale Spin claim victory on the field.

 

[KingOfDreams]

Mightiest Mortal, I've encountered a kind of surprising amount of British people, and believe me I don't mean to stereotype or anything, that seem to believe, or rather don't believe, in the United Kingdom so to speak. Like you said, take Wales, take Scotland, basically leaving everybody, including England of course, independent from each other. I know it's a little bit different over here than there but I really haven't encountered anybody who wants any state to secede from the union. All of this is just an observation of mine. I'm kind of trying to figure out the reasoning behind it all. It seems like it stems from arrogance but I could be wrong.

 

[kainedamo]

Yeah theyve already done a vote a while back and 98% wanted to stay with Britain..

When was this?

 

[Rambo, John J]

Maybe if you had better Superheros than Banshee and Syrin.

We have the Man in Black...?

 

[chamber-music]

Mightiest Mortal, I've encountered a kind of surprising amount of British people, and believe me I don't mean to stereotype or anything, that seem to believe, or rather don't believe, in the United Kingdom so to speak. Like you said, take Wales, take Scotland, basically leaving everybody, including England of course, independent from each other. I know it's a little bit different over here than there but I really haven't encountered anybody who wants any state to secede from the union. All of this is just an observation of mine. I'm kind of trying to figure out the reasoning behind it all. It seems like it stems from arrogance but I could be wrong.

Lots of people in Scotland and Wales to a lesser extent have wanted independence from England for centuries as they feel oppressed by them or that by being a member of Britain weakens their culture/heritage.

I think most average English people are just empathetic towards them.

 

[dpm07]

I hope the Irish can obtain their freedom one day, but I don't think it will ever happen.

 

[Babs Gordon]

I'm going to plead ignorance here... but obtaining freedom... aren't you guys already free? I mean you're not... in chains or made to do things by the UK government, are you? Are your rights severely infringed upon? Perhaps a better operative phrase is "sovereign".

 

[itsthebatman]

I'm going to plead ignorance here... but obtaining freedom... aren't you guys already free? I mean you're not... in chains or made to do things by the UK government, are you? Are your rights severely infringed upon? Perhaps a better operative phrase is "sovereign".

Historically, it boils down to four options:

1: Remain within the United Kingdom.

2: Become part of a 32 county Irish Republic.

3: Become an independent country altogether.

4: Some form of power sharing between the Irish Republic and the UK.

It's not that they are chains, but nationalists and republicans in the north were treated very much as second class citizens from partition (1921, after the War of Independence and Civil War), and Protestant Unionist superioroty was unchallenged. Jobs, housing - the best went to Unionists. Election boundaries were rigged to give Unionist majorities in Nationalist Catholic areas. When Catholics started marching to demand their civil rights (late 1960s), there was a massive Unionist backlash, and the British givernement did not uohold the rights of people who were, after all, it's own subjects (bloody monarchy!). The police (RUC) was a completely sectarian Protestant organisation that offered little or no protection to Nationalists being burned out of theire homes. It was against this background that the Provisional IRA came to prominence in the late 60s/early seventies.

To answer your question, yes, I would say Nationalists rights were severely infringed on. But, make no mistake, I hate the IRA, and their campaign contributed nothing to Republican ideals or ambitions except delay true power-sharing for years.

 

[kainedamo]

I agree, itsthebatman. There definately was a time when the IRA were needed, and people look at you sideways when you say that. But that time is long gone.

Babs, to answer your question. As itsthebatman said, for a long, long time Catholics were treated like second class citizens. But it isn't the same now. Catholics and Protestants are equal, though there are still some indifferences and a few left over idiots.

But there are still several ways we can benifet by breaking off from Britain and uniting with the south. For one thing, why should westminister decide what goes on here in this country? Why should we follow the law of Tony Blair? If we were independent from Britain, we wouldn't have to follow the rules of Britain's Prime Minister - we would have our own. Our own leader who can much better represent us and our needs. It isn't enough to have a power sharing assembly - we should COMPLETELY govern ourselves, decide where our taxes go, decide who we go to war with if anyone, etc.

The economy could potentially benifet. Tourism, too.

For future generations there would be an increased sense of national pride, instead of this constant divide of people who more identify with being Irish, or more identify with being British.

We don't need Britain. And I really think that the Prime Minister would rather be rid of us too.

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

Well I'm living in Limerick so my opinion on it, is it's all bull****. You got a bunch of power hungry politicians fighting and making things worse for everyone. Yes NI may be apart of Britain but only in name, technically it's still apart of Ireland. People don't like it because of pride. People ***** about oranges martching...I don't ****ing care, it's not effecting my living. It's 2007, people in this country need to get over it, because putting faith in politcians is getting everyone nowhere.

 

[yenaled]

Ireland is independent. The landmass isn't united though.

No-one in England cares, people from the republic want Northern Ireland back and the majority in Northern Ireland want to remain with Britain.

 

[Rambo, John J]

It's a majority yenaled, but a very slim one, and getting smaller all the time. In any case, I think most free staters ( ) aren't too fussed either way as to what happens to NI.

 

[evilqueen99]

never

 

[lars573]

This thread title is highly misleading. Ireland is free. Just that the Scottish colony (it's where Cromwell moved all those protestants from) in the north west is still part of Britian. But it really doesn't matter anyway. If your a citizen of the Irish republic you already have all the benefits of British citizenship, minus voting rights. I've heard tell of one guy who was born and raised in Ireland (south east I think) and decided to join the British army. Which was fully within his rights. So he did, became an officer. And ended up in NI shooting at the IRA.

 

[mightiest_mortal]

When was this?

The Northern Ireland Refurendum in 1973... ok maybe my information is a bit outdated now.

I agree, itsthebatman. There definately was a time when the IRA were needed, and people look at you sideways when you say that. But that time is long gone.

Tell that to all the people that died in terrorist attacks. Theres never a need for terrorists.. theres always other ways to solve problems than killing civilians.

But there are still several ways we can benifet by breaking off from Britain and uniting with the south. For one thing, why should westminister decide what goes on here in this country? Why should we follow the law of Tony Blair? If we were independent from Britain, we wouldn't have to follow the rules of Britain's Prime Minister - we would have our own. Our own leader who can much better represent us and our needs. It isn't enough to have a power sharing assembly - we should COMPLETELY govern ourselves, decide where our taxes go, decide who we go to war with if anyone, etc.

The economy could potentially benifet. Tourism, too.

For future generations there would be an increased sense of national pride, instead of this constant divide of people who more identify with being Irish, or more identify with being British.

See, Northern Irish people are Irish AND British! People in England are English AND British. There is no clash of Identiy. Theyre European too... does that confuse your Identity also? Why not try for getting independance from the whole world, because being Earthlings, Europeans, Irish and British must really confuse them so.
No one really cares. It doesnt matter at all. The only people it matters to are people with crappy lives who want someone or something to blame. Do people there REALLY think life will be THAT much different if they left Britain? do they really think that any government they get in power wont be as pointles and corrupt as any other government? Nothing will change.. people will just find some other reason to blame all of their misfortune on.

 

[kainedamo]

Tell that to all the people that died in terrorist attacks. Theres never a need for terrorists.. theres always other ways to solve problems than killing civilians.

Tell that to George Washington. One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. We did need the IRA, back in the 1910s and 20s. Sometimes, violence is necassary. It's arguable they served their use in the 1970s too. Catholics tried to march for civil rights and no one would listen. But the IRA we have had for the last decade has only been dentrimental.

See, Northern Irish people are Irish AND British! People in England are English AND British. There is no clash of Identiy.

There is. We're only British 'cause they conquered us. We didn't want to become British. And you call the IRA of old terrorists??? Catholics had no vote, Catholics had no land, Catholics had no jobs, Catholics had no rights.

Can you really blame me for not wanting to be identified as British? I know also for a fact there are many English people that have no desire to be connected with the British empire.

Theyre European too... does that confuse your Identity also? Why not try for getting independance from the whole world, because being Earthlings, Europeans, Irish and British must really confuse them so.

Thats really completely different. Europe refers to the continent of Europe, which we are a part of.

No one really cares. It doesnt matter at all. The only people it matters to are people with crappy lives who want someone or something to blame. Do people there REALLY think life will be THAT much different if they left Britain? do they really think that any government they get in power wont be as pointles and corrupt as any other government? Nothing will change.. people will just find some other reason to blame all of their misfortune on.

Are you one of these guys that insists the Good Friday Agreement did this country no good?

Are you blind to the amount of positive progress over the last 10 years??

We can only go up. I believe that things would improve even further if we achieved a united Ireland.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I think an united Ireland is a very bad idea. Considering that a good chunk of the country would rather be part of the United Kingdom.

I say that an independent North Ireland is the best solution.

 

[chamber-music]

If Northen Ireland governs itself I guess it will be just like a commonwealth country.

 

[FunBobPants]

i think youre thinking of NORTHERN Ireland, it is part of the UK, Ireland is not

 

[Rambo, John J]

A study in 1994 (after the good Friday agreement) showed that 90% of Unionists wished to remain part of the UK, while 60% of Irish Catholics wanted to rejoin the Republic.

The interesting thing is that prior to the GFA, less than 50% of irish catholics wanted to rejoin the Republic. Basically, Unionist/ protestant attitudes have changed ever so slightly towards being more amenable to having a united Ireland, while after the GFA, there was a sharp increase in the amount if Irish catholics who wanted - and who beleived it it to be possible.

In terms of 'national identity', as of 1994, 82% of protestants see themselves as 'British', 15% as being Northern irish, and 3% as irish. 10% of Catholics saw themselves as british, 28% as Northern Irish and 62% as Irish.

Bear in mind, this study was carried out in 1994, and i'll bet that as catholics have become more properous over the past decade, attitudes have continued along the the trend of protestants gradually accepting the concept of a united Ireland, while more Catholics will be demanding to become part of the Republic.

It'd be interesting to see the results of a similar survey carried out nowadays.