Wolverine and the X-men: Episode 24: "Foresight part 1"

[The Batman]

Dread, while i agree with you for the most part, there really isnt nothing in this cartoon that shows that Cyke didnt earn his stripes as leader. All we saw was the beginning of him in X-Men career. I agree that this cartoon has, for the most part, dumped a big one on cyke, but when it come to cyke and his leadership, i think you're exaggerating.

 

[Deaths Head II]

The show never gives anything to show that Cyke DID earn his stripes as a leader too. Besides what is stated. I too got the same impressions Dread got when watching this show.

 

[The Batman]

The show never gives anything to show that Cyke DID earn his stripes as a leader too. Besides what is stated. I too got the same impressions Dread got when watching this show.

Where does the show suggest that cyke didnt earn his spot as leader, that he only did because he was a teacher's pet? The only thing implied from the show is that scott's bond with jean made him better, which probably lead to him becoming the leader we all know from the comics.

 

[Dread]

I think Dread's arguments are well written though he lets his bias and markdom for Cyclops delude him and cloud his judgement.

While we're being personal, I think your own bias and favoritism for anything and everything this show does prevents you from seeing or accepting any flaw or choppy bit. You simply dismiss any criticism I bring up as "an exaggeration" or something that "doesn't matter". If asked to come up with a criticism or two for SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN (a show I adore), I could before long. I honestly doubt you could for this show.

You dismiss any issues with writing Wolverine based on his real world popularity or dark origins. You dismiss how poorly any other character is written in comparison with a "well, this happened once in the comics." Look, I could easily find a slew of comics in which Superman kills Lois in a story. That doesn't mean I think it would be his best characterization for a show.

Modern comic cartoons have to choose from some 40 years of 616 comics, Ultimate comics, and even prior movies or cartoons to decide how to handle most of the characters. WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN can improve on this regard. They will find themselves with a much more dynamic and interesting Wolverine if his mistakes are allowed to have consequences, if other characters are allowed to call him on them, or even share their own contrasting opinions or personalities with each other, and allowed to stand on their own, rather than simply being Logan's supporting cast. They will find themselves with a dynamic cast that can be full of personality and strength without thinking that somehow demotes Wolverine. They will find a show that is not a dumpster diving simply because Wolverine is not clearly written as physically and morally superior to everyone on the team. Until these things change, W&TXM can at best only achieve work that is above average. Sophmore seasons are times to re-examine things, use what worked and what didn't, so there is hope to objectively see some of the shortcuts and flaws for what they are by the production staff, and work on a better job next time. I mean, hell, LEGION OF SUPERHEROES did it.

Believe it or not, Wolverine can NOT be "Mr. X-Men" in every situation and still be a cool, great to watch character. The irony is that years of popularity and writer fan ******* have removed a lot of what made Wolverine so appealing in the comics in the 80's. In EVOLUTION he was often a jobbering babysitter; W&TXM took that a step further, removed the jobbering (Wolverine only lost when they wanted Rogue or Christy Nord to look good) but made him an all purpose Red Ranger den mother. Like TEEN TITANS, they had an aggressive, flawed leader with anger problems, but they twisted every plot so that said leader was always correct, and traded drama for stability.

Regarding Emma. I don't see what else the X-men could have done. I think Wolverine and Cyclops were both clearly stunned and/or saddened by her unselfish sacrifice. And it was really Emma's only unselfish act in the course of the show unless if you consider it was the only way for Scott to forgive her and not hate her. Sure the X-men could've mourned and felt sorry about her more. But none of what happened to them in the last year would've happened at all if not for Emma Frost. The dark future with Zordon Xavier or whatever was brought about by Emma and the Hellfire club's actions. The triggering of Jean's Phoenix powers. Xavier's coma. The destruction of the mansion. The disbanding of the X-men and the fall from grace for Scott. Emma had a part in all of it.

As Selene and Shaw said, all Frost needed the X-Men for was to rebuild Cerebro for her; she could have tried to eliminate them all immediately afterward, around episode 3 or so. Instead she took part on everyday missions, like saving Storm from Shadow King (a mission Cyclops was more than willing to abandon, I might add), or helping Logan sort out his past with psychic sessions. If the X-Men all died in a mission, that would only make Frost's job easier, yet she chose to fight alongside them.

The problem with the Dark Future is that for the life of me you need some contrived hogwash to try to connect the Master Mold Takeover with the Dark Phoenix plot. Neither has anything to do with the other. The Club's desire to bright out the Phoenix has nothing to do with the MRD or Kelly or Magneto's war or whatever. They both just happened to come to a head at the same time. Rather than having one strong plot, they smashed two together that fed off each other, symbiotically. But a snake eating it's tail is not ideal. The MRD would have ramped up regardless if the X-Men were around. Magneto's side deals with Kelly were under the table for the longest time. The only way I can connect the two is that sometime in the future, Master Mold finds itself with no one to challenge it after Phoenix ravages the world and takes over in twenty years, but why her/it? Why not, say, Mojo? Anyone and any threat could have picked up that power vacuum. Why not Apocalypse then instead of now? How did eliminating Dark Phoenix immediately take Master Mold out of the picture?

The Hellfire Club and Frost were the cause of a lot of the X-Men's misery, the destruction of the mansion and the breaking up of the team. But the problem was that once the team was remobilized by Wolverine, none of those things mattered. It stunk that Xavier was in a coma, but they still could talk to him in a way, or had a go-between. Yeah, it led to Storm going back to Africa to be Shadow King's pawn, a battle that Frost was PIVOTAL to winning. Aside for Colossus, all of the X-Men returned, and Colossus was never missed in combat or emotionally. Maybe Nightcrawler wouldn't have been helping ferry mutants to Genosha without that act, but it led to his romance with Wanda, and Wanda's learning of Magneto's dark side. The only X-People whose actions Frost's initial attack with the Cuckoos impacted on a day by day basis throughout the show's run were Jean herself, who was off camera with amnesia for most of the season until the end, and Cyclops, who Frost was working exclusively to help. NONE of the other X-Men gave a fig about Jean. In fact, they were usually shocked that after a year, Scott still was genuinely interested in finding her. For a character who has carried grudges for decades, Wolverine was especially condescending of anyone else having them. None of the other X-Men gave a damn about Cyclops' torment. All they cared about were him showing up for missions.

I get what you are saying, in essence. I just am countering that the show didn't handle this dynamic well.

I know Dread likes to nitpick so much, but all the thought and things he is over thinking about were not necessarily crucial or important in the series.

Yeah, who cares about getting details right? All that matters is that costumed characters show up and fight robots, right?

Heavens, and people wonder why the quality of animation often goes down. Many in the audience have no bloody standards for quality. All they care about is that Goku shows up to fight Buu, they don't care if anyone around them has been written well, or the situation, or the aftermath.

What separates the brilliant shows from the pedestrian is mastering both the big and the small. The best baked cake in the world won't get much attention if it has no icing, no filling, and no food coloring. Nothing is trivial.

I "nitpick" because I don't believe that Kyle, Johnson and Yost are incapable of brilliance. I have seen the greatness they can produce individually or collectively when they are really on. Much as anyone who nitpicks a Uwe Boll film is out of their mind, but it is worth it for a Spielberg production. To be honest after the strength of many of the character dynamics in EVOLUTION, I was shocked to see much of this season be so emotionally cold or one-dimensional.

Scott is so terrible for not giving Emma the time of day but . . . that's the point. Emma in the end truly did care about Scott and did try to redeem herself even though Scott still loved and was devoted to Jean. Emma's a telepath. Meaning she can sense and feel Scott's pain and anger. So in working with Scott she would feel Scott's loss more than anyone. When Emma talked about Scott being a good person, I don't think she was being dishonest at all, I think that's how she truly feels about Scott and I think that's why she liked Scott.

I know that "the point" of the show was to showcase Cyclops as rather "terrible", not far removed from Ultimate Hank Pym. Petty, small minded, obsessive, selfish, and with an ego more fragile than cardboard. As I said to Cyma, I agree that Frost did genuinely fall for Cyclops and sought to redeem a lot of her actions through him. She was the sole cause of much of his pain, and was the sole person who cared to relieve it.

And yet all Dread seems to think about how Cyclops wouldn't jump into bed with her fragmented corpse. I think what Dread really wanted was a moment with Beast picking up her broken pieces and putting them back together with Cyclops looking on saying, "Soon Emma, my darling." I mean seriously, I'm sure Cyclops did feel some sadness over what happened, but again all of it happened because of the same woman and he got the woman he loves back.

You are thinking that me wanting a simple moment or two of mourning is the equal of wanting Cyclops to "jump into bed with her fragmented corpse". That's an awesome stretch.

The problem with Cyclops was that his "love" for Jean was in a psychologically twisted and obsessive way; he only loved her for the attention and approval she showered on him, because she "took his pain away", for his OWN needs. He would have let all of his friends die without her being there. He would have, and did, let the cause crumble without her. He abandoned his team in the middle of a damn mission to save the planet because Jean was in danger. And he ignored any attention towards him unless Jean was dangled like a carrot. Every time Frost seemed to want to help him, Scott was like, "Found Jean yet?" He was a stalker, basically. The only difference between him and Mr. Sinister is that Sinister wanted to harvest her genes and Scott wants to harvest Jean's attention. Unfortunately, it is hard to justify this level of obsessive love for a heroine that the show never actually introduced to us. Jean was not a character in this show. She was a Maguffin and a plot contrivance. That was the problem.

But, I guess to you that's one of those "details" that "doesn't matter" because in the end everyone still got to fight a flaming bird, right?

I just wanted a little more than Scott to give a half-glance at Frost's sacrifice while hugging Jean, and then huddling around Zordon at the end like it didn't matter.

When Emma does come back, I imagine there will be plenty of room for some dramatic tension between Jean, Emma, and Scott. Because when she does come back, where do you expect her to go? Not the Hellfire Club. And when she goes back to the X-men it will be a matter of, well she did put us through a year of hell but she did sort of make up for it and got shattered to pieces as a result.

She put us through a year of hell, but she also helped us save Storm, and save Cyclops from Mr. Sinister, and a slew of other battles, and even encouraged Logan to investigate his bad dreams when even Xavier said it was poorly timed. No one who helps Logan is ever really bad.

I agree, Frost's return would add a helluva dynamic to the Mansion in Season 2 with Jean back, assuming the writers have relearned how to write actual characters and not talking action figures, which I hope they can and believe they can. I will be looking forward to actually caring about more than five out of 20 characters for next season's finale.

Dread, while i agree with you for the most part, there really isnt nothing in this cartoon that shows that Cyke didnt earn his stripes as leader. All we saw was the beginning of him in X-Men career. I agree that this cartoon has, for the most part, dumped a big one on cyke, but when it come to cyke and his leadership, i think you're exaggerating.

I can't exaggerate when I have no evidence to support the contrary.

The show never gives anything to show that Cyke DID earn his stripes as a leader too. Besides what is stated. I too got the same impressions Dread got when watching this show.

Precisely.

Where does the show suggest that cyke didnt earn his spot as leader, that he only did because he was a teacher's pet? The only thing implied from the show is that scott's bond with jean made him better, which probably lead to him becoming the leader we all know from the comics.

The problem is that the show's continuity and backstory isn't "from the comics". The show lifts from Ultimate and the movies in some regards, which are dramatically different. Not one shred of evidence the show ever presented demonstrated to me that Cyclops was any sort of leader or even an above average X-Man before, during, or after Jean. Not one word, not one scene, nothing. A lack of motivation is not the same as excellence on the battle field. Gilligan was always motivated, but he was an idiot.

A TV show or movie has to give you context, because they cannot take things for granted. Batman has the most well known origin since Superman, yet every single cartoon he is in usually deals with his origin at some point. Why? Because it is central to the character. You can't just dismiss it.

 

[TheVileOne]

While we're being personal, I think your own bias and favoritism for anything and everything this show does prevents you from seeing or accepting any flaw or choppy bit. You simply dismiss any criticism I bring up as "an exaggeration" or something that "doesn't matter". If asked to come up with a criticism or two for SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN (a show I adore), I could before long. I honestly doubt you could for this show.

The show did what it set out to do. People questioned and criticized the choice about NickToons. And it turned out fine. NickToons has not hurt the show.

You dismiss any issues with writing Wolverine based on his real world popularity or dark origins. You dismiss how poorly any other character is written in comparison with a "well, this happened once in the comics." Look, I could easily find a slew of comics in which Superman kills Lois in a story. That doesn't mean I think it would be his best characterization for a show.

Because I unlike you do not find these things POOR. I don't dismiss any thing. I acknowledge them, or accept them because maybe I am fine with the execution generally. I've stated the issues and critiques I have for the show and things I worry about for the future of the show's storyline. You only say I dismiss things to make it convenient for yourself.

You seemed to often complain about the lack of violence or implied violence and would point out how in TMNT people died, got slashed, or got killed offscreen.

Look at all the carnage in the last two episodes. The sentinels killed humans and mutants. There was a great deal of implied, offscreen death. You saw a sentinel put its hand into a building and let loose with a blast. You see the result, but you don't see the actual deaths.

Modern comic cartoons have to choose from some 40 years of 616 comics, Ultimate comics, and even prior movies or cartoons to decide how to handle most of the characters. WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN can improve on this regard. They will find themselves with a much more dynamic and interesting Wolverine if his mistakes are allowed to have consequences, if other characters are allowed to call him on them, or even share their own contrasting opinions or personalities with each other, and allowed to stand on their own, rather than simply being Logan's supporting cast. They will find themselves with a dynamic cast that can be full of personality and strength without thinking that somehow demotes Wolverine. They will find a show that is not a dumpster diving simply because Wolverine is not clearly written as physically and morally superior to everyone on the team. Until these things change, W&TXM can at best only achieve work that is above average. Sophomore seasons are times to re-examine things, use what worked and what didn't, so there is hope to objectively see some of the shortcuts and flaws for what they are by the production staff, and work on a better job next time. I mean, hell, LEGION OF SUPERHEROES did it.

The thing is, plenty of characters were given arcs and the chance to become their own characters outside Wolverine in this show. But since this is an ensemble and a limited time frame to tell the stories people get whiney that their favorite characters aren't used here or there. Storm didn't get to do enough. Colossus is gone and no one even mentions him. But now they have 26 episodes in the can. Now they are getting 26 more. They laid the groundwork for Storm, and now the potential is there for Storm to have a much bigger role in the second season. And there's actually unique and now flawed person Storm is being paired up with.

Iceman didn't have some huge hero save the day moment, but Iceman was re-established as a competent and important member of the team that's also highly attracted to Shadowcat. Despite Shadowcat's age, she's also proven herself to be a competent member of team in the battle and can hold her own. So all those precedents were set and can be expanded upon in later on.

Sure some more mention of Colossus would be nice. Maybe some regret that how this is sort of a time where Colossus would throw Wolverine into battle, but the show can't dwell on things like that. The team was already dealing with two major losses in Jean and Xavier. And they need to focus on that. In the comics, when the teams revolve around and change so regularly you can't have the characters constantly make mention of who is or isn't there anymore.

Believe it or not, Wolverine can NOT be "Mr. X-Men" in every situation and still be a cool, great to watch character. The irony is that years of popularity and writer fan ******* have removed a lot of what made Wolverine so appealing in the comics in the 80's. In EVOLUTION he was often a jobbering babysitter; W&TXM took that a step further, removed the jobbering (Wolverine only lost when they wanted Rogue or Christy Nord to look good) but made him an all purpose Red Ranger den mother. Like TEEN TITANS, they had an aggressive, flawed leader with anger problems, but they twisted every plot so that said leader was always correct, and traded drama for stability.

I think you are totally twisting things around here to suit your argument. For one thing at the end of the day, the person who saved everybody was Emma Frost. So if anyone really turned out to be Mr. X-man it was her after she played the Terra/Judas role.

The only thing I feel that is ruined Wolverine as a character is the derivative nature of his big storylines. Millar has Wolverine brainwashed and working for the bad guy as this big blockbuster storyline even though this same thing has happened with Wolverine before a dozen times. Larsen did the same thing. It happened before with Wolverine as the Death Horseman for Apocalypse. And then you have these God awful, street clothes Wolverine storylines that are just grim, dark, and gritty for the sake of it. Or you have Morrison, Daniel Way, and numerous others continuing to muddle up and confuse with his history. And then Jeph Loeb saying Wolverine is really an evolved wolf or something.

The problem with the Dark Future is that for the life of me you need some contrived hogwash to try to connect the Master Mold Takeover with the Dark Phoenix plot. Neither has anything to do with the other. The Club's desire to bright out the Phoenix has nothing to do with the MRD or Kelly or Magneto's war or whatever. They both just happened to come to a head at the same time. Rather than having one strong plot, they smashed two together that fed off each other, symbiotically. But a snake eating it's tail is not ideal. The MRD would have ramped up regardless if the X-Men were around. Magneto's side deals with Kelly were under the table for the longest time. The only way I can connect the two is that sometime in the future, Master Mold finds itself with no one to challenge it after Phoenix ravages the world and takes over in twenty years, but why her/it? Why not, say, Mojo? Anyone and any threat could have picked up that power vacuum. Why not Apocalypse then instead of now? How did eliminating Dark Phoenix immediately take Master Mold out of the picture?

For one thing, nothing was ever defined as DARK PHOENIX being taken out of the picture. Also, Xavier said the team being disbanded was the problem. In Xavier's future, the team never returned.

Also, who truly knows what's happened to Master Mold? As far as we know, Master Mold is still out there somewhere and that threat could still come up again. Apocalypse, who knows with the Phoenix going around could have thwarted him as well.

The Hellfire Club and Frost were the cause of a lot of the X-Men's misery, the destruction of the mansion and the breaking up of the team. But the problem was that once the team was remobilized by Wolverine, none of those things mattered. It stunk that Xavier was in a coma, but they still could talk to him in a way, or had a go-between. Yeah, it led to Storm going back to Africa to be Shadow King's pawn, a battle that Frost was PIVOTAL to winning. Aside for Colossus, all of the X-Men returned, and Colossus was never missed in combat or emotionally. Maybe Nightcrawler wouldn't have been helping ferry mutants to Genosha without that act, but it led to his romance with Wanda, and Wanda's learning of Magneto's dark side. The only X-People whose actions Frost's initial attack with the Cuckoos impacted on a day by day basis throughout the show's run were Jean herself, who was off camera with amnesia for most of the season until the end, and Cyclops, who Frost was working exclusively to help. NONE of the other X-Men gave a fig about Jean. In fact, they were usually shocked that after a year, Scott still was genuinely interested in finding her. For a character who has carried grudges for decades, Wolverine was especially condescending of anyone else having them. None of the other X-Men gave a damn about Cyclops' torment. All they cared about were him showing up for missions.

Thank you Dr. Freud.

And they had every reason to be that way from their perspective. Not to mention, there was no evidence to support that Jean hadn't perished despite Scott's hope which was justified due to their mental link and bond. But Cyclops became reckless as a result.

Yeah, who cares about getting details right? All that matters is that costumed characters show up and fight robots, right?

Sorry, but I didn't see that.

Heavens, and people wonder why the quality of animation often goes down. Many in the audience have no bloody standards for quality. All they care about is that Goku shows up to fight Buu, they don't care if anyone around them has been written well, or the situation, or the aftermath.

In the end though in the present timeline, where was the big Wolverine battle? All Wolverine did was pursue Cyclops and Emma, and he freed Emma to save everyone from the Phoenix. They gave a lot more spotlight to the Emma, Cyclops, and Jean storylines.

I "nitpick" because I don't believe that Kyle, Johnson and Yost are incapable of brilliance. I have seen the greatness they can produce individually or collectively when they are really on. Much as anyone who nitpicks a Uwe Boll film is out of their mind, but it is worth it for a Spielberg production. To be honest after the strength of many of the character dynamics in EVOLUTION, I was shocked to see much of this season be so emotionally cold or one-dimensional.

Looking at the first season of X-men Evolution, this show turned in a much stronger first season. Whatever problems you had in this show, I found Evolution to be much more logically problematic and at times even ridiculous.

I know that "the point" of the show was to showcase Cyclops as rather "terrible", not far removed from Ultimate Hank Pym. Petty, small minded, obsessive, selfish, and with an ego more fragile than cardboard. As I said to Cyma, I agree that Frost did genuinely fall for Cyclops and sought to redeem a lot of her actions through him. She was the sole cause of much of his pain, and was the sole person who cared to relieve it.

Except that whole chemically unbalanced and beating women within an inch of their life thing. You are way into psycho-analysis of super heroes my friend.

You are thinking that me wanting a simple moment or two of mourning is the equal of wanting Cyclops to "jump into bed with her fragmented corpse". That's an awesome stretch.

The moment was there. I don't think they needed to milk it any further. My quote was a joke to sort of exaggerate your disappointment over these parts.

The problem with Cyclops was that his "love" for Jean was in a psychologically twisted and obsessive way; he only loved her for the attention and approval she showered on him, because she "took his pain away", for his OWN needs. He would have let all of his friends die without her being there. He would have, and did, let the cause crumble without her. He abandoned his team in the middle of a damn mission to save the planet because Jean was in danger. And he ignored any attention towards him unless Jean was dangled like a carrot. Every time Frost seemed to want to help him, Scott was like, "Found Jean yet?" He was a stalker, basically. The only difference between him and Mr. Sinister is that Sinister wanted to harvest her genes and Scott wants to harvest Jean's attention. Unfortunately, it is hard to justify this level of obsessive love for a heroine that the show never actually introduced to us. Jean was not a character in this show. She was a Maguffin and a plot contrivance. That was the problem.

Seriously, I think you've put way too much thought and effort into your interpretation into these events that's not necessary or even valid at all.

But, I guess to you that's one of those "details" that "doesn't matter" because in the end everyone still got to fight a flaming bird, right?

They matter because the story isn't over yet. This just the first part of a story. The story continues and we will continue to see how characters, emotions, and storylines develop.

I just wanted a little more than Scott to give a half-glance at Frost's sacrifice while hugging Jean, and then huddling around Zordon at the end like it didn't matter.

Who knows what the loss of Emma's presence might be felt in the future. But I mean, Scott got Jean back, and there's that great conflict in that the same woman that caused him all his pain and suffering was ultimately the same woman that relieved all of it.

However if someone tortures you and breaks you mentally and emotionally and ultimately they save your life that doesn't take away the fact that they still put you in that place. I'm sure Scott is aware of all of this. And I am at least open to the potential of this idea and seeing where it goes.

She put us through a year of hell, but she also helped us save Storm, and save Cyclops from Mr. Sinister, and a slew of other battles, and even encouraged Logan to investigate his bad dreams when even Xavier said it was poorly timed. No one who helps Logan is ever really bad.

Maybe that's exactly why she suggested Logan to do that, ya think .

Precisely.

Just because it wasn't shown doesn't mean it didn't happen.

The problem is that the show's continuity and backstory isn't "from the comics". The show lifts from Ultimate and the movies in some regards, which are dramatically different. Not one shred of evidence the show ever presented demonstrated to me that Cyclops was any sort of leader or even an above average X-Man before, during, or after Jean. Not one word, not one scene, nothing. A lack of motivation is not the same as excellence on the battle field. Gilligan was always motivated, but he was an idiot.

Shadowcat said beforehand that Scott used to always be the first one there. The first one on the jet and everything else. Sinister referred to Scott as Xavier's prized student or apprentice or what have you.

A TV show or movie has to give you context, because they cannot take things for granted. Batman has the most well known origin since Superman, yet every single cartoon he is in usually deals with his origin at some point. Why? Because it is central to the character. You can't just dismiss it.

Also, when Cyclops was motivated, he more than held his own in battle. Now I'm sure you would say in response that all he had was Jean as a source of his strength and tenacity. But I mean is that no different than Spider-man saying that MJ makes him feel like he can do anything and that's why he needs her?

 

[Syncos]

Something's wonky with the show's timeline.
Logan shows up. One would presume this is his first time at the mansion, as he's never met Jean or Scott before. Scott and Logan get in a fight, the next morning logan goes to leave and the mansion explodes...

How does it even get to a point where Rogue can claim logan's "always leaving". he just arrived at the mansion a day ago.

Maybe i'm missing something. but it just doesn't seem to be adding up.

 

[HotSoup]

There is probably a period of time between Logan showing up and the Scott/Logan argument and Logan's subsequent leaving. Presumably during this time Logan hangs out with the team, makes further advances on Jean, and Scott is actually a capable leader.

 

[Dread]

The show did what it set out to do. People questioned and criticized the choice about NickToons. And it turned out fine. NickToons has not hurt the show.

No, it hasn't. That concerns my point how?

Because I unlike you do not find these things POOR. I don't dismiss any thing. I acknowledge them, or accept them because maybe I am fine with the execution generally. I've stated the issues and critiques I have for the show and things I worry about for the future of the show's storyline. You only say I dismiss things to make it convenient for yourself.

Fair enough, maybe I missed some of your rare criticisms. Just nearly with all of mine you seem to ignore because I'm terribly "biased".

You seemed to often complain about the lack of violence or implied violence and would point out how in TMNT people died, got slashed, or got killed offscreen.

Look at all the carnage in the last two episodes. The sentinels killed humans and mutants. There was a great deal of implied, offscreen death. You saw a sentinel put its hand into a building and let loose with a blast. You see the result, but you don't see the actual deaths.

Yeah, there was a little of that. I didn't note the lack of it as a problem at least for this episode. There is some room to improve but they started to at least in this boarding regard.

The thing is, plenty of characters were given arcs and the chance to become their own characters outside Wolverine in this show. But since this is an ensemble and a limited time frame to tell the stories people get whiney that their favorite characters aren't used here or there. Storm didn't get to do enough. Colossus is gone and no one even mentions him. But now they have 26 episodes in the can. Now they are getting 26 more. They laid the groundwork for Storm, and now the potential is there for Storm to have a much bigger role in the second season. And there's actually unique and now flawed person Storm is being paired up with.

Iceman didn't have some huge hero save the day moment, but Iceman was re-established as a competent and important member of the team that's also highly attracted to Shadowcat. Despite Shadowcat's age, she's also proven herself to be a competent member of team in the battle and can hold her own. So all those precedents were set and can be expanded upon in later on.

Sure some more mention of Colossus would be nice. Maybe some regret that how this is sort of a time where Colossus would throw Wolverine into battle, but the show can't dwell on things like that. The team was already dealing with two major losses in Jean and Xavier. And they need to focus on that. In the comics, when the teams revolve around and change so regularly you can't have the characters constantly make mention of who is or isn't there anymore.

Outside of Wolverine, the only characters who got what I would consider decent and consistent character arcs were Angel, Cyclops, Rogue (at least until she rejoined the X-Men), Nightcrawler, and Scarlet Witch. To a lessor degree there was a lot of focus on Future Xavier and Magneto. Unfortunately, those are about half the cast.

Iceman, Shadowcat, Beast, and Forge are bare bones character sketches, like Storm. Not very fleshed. Same with many of the Brotherhood, aside for Quicksilver and Domino. Compare this to EVOLUTION where by 26 episodes in, even Blob was a character, at least for his intro.

My point is the character balance needs to improve in Season 2. There needs to be more interaction, and stronger interaction. That is not the same as a focus episode. In fact it is more important.

I think you are totally twisting things around here to suit your argument. For one thing at the end of the day, the person who saved everybody was Emma Frost. So if anyone really turned out to be Mr. X-man it was her after she played the Terra/Judas role.

Because she was cut free by Wolverine, who was told to do so by Future Xavier, only after he learned how to save the world by Future Wolverine. She never would have been able to do that had Wolverine not saved them from Silver Samurai, or from Master Mold in "Backlash". But, yeah, at the finale it was Frost, because Logan learned to trust her.

The only thing I feel that is ruined Wolverine as a character is the derivative nature of his big storylines. Millar has Wolverine brainwashed and working for the bad guy as this big blockbuster storyline even though this same thing has happened with Wolverine before a dozen times. Larsen did the same thing. It happened before with Wolverine as the Death Horseman for Apocalypse. And then you have these God awful, street clothes Wolverine storylines that are just grim, dark, and gritty for the sake of it. Or you have Morrison, Daniel Way, and numerous others continuing to muddle up and confuse with his history. And then Jeph Loeb saying Wolverine is really an evolved wolf or something.

While I wouldn't say that such derivative stories were the only thing that have ruined Wolverine in many ways, I will say they are a contributing factor, and I agree with this point. Rehashed stories and awkward retcons and whatnot about his origins don't usually help him. In fact, WOLVERINE: ORIGINS has done more harm to Logan's history that anyone can imagine.

For one thing, nothing was ever defined as DARK PHOENIX being taken out of the picture. Also, Xavier said the team being disbanded was the problem. In Xavier's future, the team never returned.

But after Wolverine reorganized the team, nothing in the future changed. Hell, he nipped Master Mold in the bud and it didn't matter. It was all tied to Dark Phoenix.

Thank you Dr. Freud.

And they had every reason to be that way from their perspective. Not to mention, there was no evidence to support that Jean hadn't perished despite Scott's hope which was justified due to their mental link and bond. But Cyclops became reckless as a result.

But you can at least miss someone you think is dead. No one even missed her. Lord knows if I hung around some girl for 5 years at a school and fought crime with her, I would still miss her a year after she "died", even if I wasn't a reckless putz about it like Cyclops.

In the end though in the present timeline, where was the big Wolverine battle? All Wolverine did was pursue Cyclops and Emma, and he freed Emma to save everyone from the Phoenix. They gave a lot more spotlight to the Emma, Cyclops, and Jean storylines.

Future Wolverine and his X-23 Singers tore through some Sentinels in the future, but yeah, the finale didn't rely on Wolverine's battle in the present. It was still his choice that was essential.

Looking at the first season of X-men Evolution, this show turned in a much stronger first season. Whatever problems you had in this show, I found Evolution to be much more logically problematic and at times even ridiculous.

If you compare 26 episodes of W&TXM to the first 13 of EVOLUTION, that isn't fair. You have to compare it to up to episode 26 of EVOLUTION, which was towards the later end of their second season. As I have said in reviews, both are different fish. If you are judging solely on serial storytelling and adapting the comic stories, W&TXM is the balls. If you actually want that combined with characters who are mostly well fleshed and distinctive as an ensemble cast, then EVOLUTION has a bit going for it. That said, EVOLUTION wasn't really "great" until the very end of Season 2, which was episode 29 or so, going onto Season 3, their best.

I agree, a lot of plots in the first half of EVOLUTION were simplistic and stupid; I thought episodes 12-13 were especially dodgy. I cared more about the characters, though. W&TXM has better storylines and whatnot, but not as many distinct characters involved.

Except that whole chemically unbalanced and beating women within an inch of their life thing. You are way into psycho-analysis of super heroes my friend.

I didn't say he was exactly the same as Ultimate Hank Pym. I said "not far removed." Considering you are always telling me I should embrace Cyclops' inner jackass as being absolutely essential, I am surprised you are fighting me on this point.

The moment was there. I don't think they needed to milk it any further. My quote was a joke to sort of exaggerate your disappointment over these parts.

I didn't think it was enough, especially as the X-Men are all back-slapping themselves afterwards.

Seriously, I think you've put way too much thought and effort into your interpretation into these events that's not necessary or even valid at all.

Yeah, don't judge a show on those petty details. All that matters is who gets smashed at the end.

They matter because the story isn't over yet. This just the first part of a story. The story continues and we will continue to see how characters, emotions, and storylines develop.

You're honestly saying that it isn't fair to criticize the first 26 episodes of material because there is due another 26 episodes of material? We have the same episode count as many shows had in two whole seasons on FoxKids or Kids WB and it's UNFAIR to criticize it now, we have to wait for ANOTHER 26?

By that logic, SPIDER-MAN UNLIMITED, SILVER SURFER, MTV SPIDER-MAN, and AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND were all unfairly judged. If only Marvel hadn't gone bankrupt, or if MTV had a heart, that next season woulda/coulda/shoulda.

(And NO, WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN is nowhere near as bad as those shows. It is a B grade show, of above average quality. Better than THE BATMAN or LEGION OF SUPERHEROES or even the goofy-fun FANTASTIC FOUR: WGH, or BATMAN: BRAVE AND THE BOLD).

I think SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN has proven to me and others that it IS fair to judge a show from the pilot, expect quality, and expect it to be fulfilled consistently. Whether from episode 10 or 20.

Who knows what the loss of Emma's presence might be felt in the future. But I mean, Scott got Jean back, and there's that great conflict in that the same woman that caused him all his pain and suffering was ultimately the same woman that relieved all of it.

However if someone tortures you and breaks you mentally and emotionally and ultimately they save your life that doesn't take away the fact that they still put you in that place. I'm sure Scott is aware of all of this. And I am at least open to the potential of this idea and seeing where it goes.

Hopefully it goes someplace interesting.

Maybe that's exactly why she suggested Logan to do that, ya think .

Perhaps.

Just because it wasn't shown doesn't mean it didn't happen.

By that logic, can I assume that Logan goes to Madripoor and slaughters bar fighters on off days? He did that in the comics. Just because it wasn't shown doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Shadowcat said beforehand that Scott used to always be the first one there. The first one on the jet and everything else. Sinister referred to Scott as Xavier's prized student or apprentice or what have you.

Shadowcat was ragging on Cyclops for his lack of motivation. Not because he was actually competent before; just implying he was motivated. "Before, not only would you have showed up for the mission, you'd be the first one there," basically. That doesn't imply any sort of commanding presence.

Mr. Sinister never called Cyclops as prized student of Xavier's. While he claimed that "Xavier didn't know what he had with the two of you" and referred to their powers, he didn't seem to believe Xavier held Scott as dear as Jean.

Anyway, episode 20 made very clear that Scott was incompetent, but that Xavier felt pity on him so he included him on things. That fits perfectly well with the idea of a teacher's pet who never earned anything through merit and could never stand tall without support, which was why Logan didn't respect Cyclops, and still doesn't, and Scott has no reason to grow because Jean is there.

Honestly, with the version of Cyclops this show is intent on bringing forth, the idea of him being a Never Was fits with how he is portrayed in the ACTUAL SHOW, not the THEORETICAL SHOW that viewers can only imagine happened off camera, how everyone treats him, and especially how the star hero views him. Now, some people absolutely love this version of Scott. I've read some posts on IMBD or something that said, essentially, "Yeah, Scott may be a selfish, petty jerk here, but at least he isn't boring." I concede that Cyclops as written here is unique and not boring. I just don't find him sympathetic or heroic very often. Wolverine was given every right to thus take over the team, since he clearly is the embodiment of all that Xavier preaches.

Also, when Cyclops was motivated, he more than held his own in battle. Now I'm sure you would say in response that all he had was Jean as a source of his strength and tenacity. But I mean is that no different than Spider-man saying that MJ makes him feel like he can do anything and that's why he needs her?

Spider-Man has fought crime before and after MJ. The only version where he was SUPER attached to her was the movies, where she was the only girl he lusted for and loved from childhood to adulthood (which sometimes seems creepy). SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN has captured how completely distracted Peter is by girls and how he is into whichever one gives him attention at the moment (even if his true love is Gwen Stacy, he just hasn't admitted it and acted on it yet).

As for per-episode competence, it waxed and waned for Cyclops. He usually was no more or less efficient than Iceman at what he did in a typical fight. He stood back and shot a blast at something, and was only done for if he had to actually move. For every episode like "Shades of Grey" where Cyclops was zapping away, there was a "Backlash" where he was useless. I suppose that is fine for the position he was in for the show, even if it meant he was only distinct by his character, which by episode 26 was not very sympathetic.

If he wasn't screaming after Jean, he usually never did expecially well. The only episode I recall where he did was "Battlelines" (episode 13) where he was blasting Avalanche while Blob was beating the tar out of Wolverine, so Rogue could look good rescuing him. Come to think of it, the only "tanker" character Wolverine ever defeated was the Hulk, the one he should have no chance against. Even Blockbuster was mopping the floor with him.

If Cyclops isn't going to be the leader, he has to be distinctive in another way, and I understand that, needing to change things around from old dynamics. I just am still curious whether it was the best choice to instead choose to define him by his flaws, and NOTHING else beyond those and his morbid attachment to Jean. I mean, Gambit by contrast came off as MUCH more noble and genuine, and he is a merc for hire, basically.

You also have to remember, the X-Men including Cyclops LOST EFFORTLESSLY to NINJA. That is akin to losing to Smurfs. It takes your nasty meter down instantly.

 

[insane polaris]

There is no need to psycho analyse everything about the show.

Its a kids show, its targeted at young children ( none of us should really be watching it)

I highly doubt 7yr old kids will be sat at home thinking bout why Cyclops has not been shown as a leader or why Jean is not actually a character.

Theyre enjoying the show!!!

 

[Dread]

There is no need to psycho analyse everything about the show.

Its a kids show, its targeted at young children ( none of us should really be watching it)

I highly doubt 7yr old kids will be sat at home thinking bout why Cyclops has not been shown as a leader or why Jean is not actually a character.

Theyre enjoying the show!!!

I'm sure they are. However, just because a show is intended for an 8-13 year old demographic (even though most TV cartoon people these days likely guess at least 15% of their audience will be older, and that is a conservative estimate) doesn't mean it has to pander or talk down or offer less than excellent characterization.

All of the precious shows of our own youth that didn't do that, like BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES and X-MEN are shows we can rewatch now and get more out of it. Now while WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN is quite a few steps above drivel of, say, half of THE BATMAN, I am just saying it could be better.

 

[TheVileOne]

And sometimes people look at the 90's X-men show through rose-colored glasses and don't address the parts that don't hold up as well today.

 

[CaptainCanada]

It's not perfect (no show is), but it was and remains a great show, and delivered a far more authentic Wolverine (allowed to just be Wolverine) and a better Cyclops.

 

[Dread]

And sometimes people look at the 90's X-men show through rose-colored glasses and don't address the parts that don't hold up as well today.

I'm more than aware of the parts about the 1992-1997 X-MEN series that don't hold up. I could list a bunch right now, in fact.

- The animation, about 94% of it done by the now defunct AKOM, was cheap even for the time and has not aged well at all. Ironically, all of the eight or so episodes animated by other studios look better.

- The show, good as it was, was a major product of the early-mid 90's and benefited from few "good" team shows that came before. All it had to outdo in 1992 was prior incarnations of the Fantastic Four cartoon, Superfriends, and Spider-Friends.

- The dialogue was especially a product of it's time. Nearly every X-Man at some point or other had truly ATROCIOUS dialogue or one-liners, especially Storm (the poster child of bad lines in cartoons), Rogue, and probably Gambit, although none of the X-Men were spared beyond Beast.

- Too bright colors for today's color palette

- It imitated the X-Men comics at the time but also inherited many of their flaws and distractions, such as time travel and alien sagas, even if they were executed well.

People look at the show through "rose colored glasses" due to nostalgia, quality, and the test of time. The show was actually pretty good at character focus. Even when Wolverine clearly was intended a major star by the middle of Season 4, the show never went so far out of it's way to make him superior to other characters, and he was frequently sharing the screen with Beast, Rogue, or Jubilee.

X-MEN EVOLUTION and WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN have both also been different in their own way, and perhaps also products of their time so far.

Honestly the only thing that irritates me are fans who watch W&TXM and go, "Hey, it isn't terrible, therefore it's perfect because it is a New X-Men show!" and that does no one any good. I'm not saying this show is rubbish; a debut season with a grade of B from a scale of F to A+ is hardly "rubbish". It's above average. It just is saying there is room to be improved upon in Season 2.

 

[CaptainCanada]

- It imitated the X-Men comics at the time but also inherited many of their flaws and distractions, such as time travel and alien sagas, even if they were executed well.

Those were some of my favourite parts of the show. I actually thought their version of the Phoenix Saga (as opposed to the Dark Phoenix one) exceeded the original (I'd say the same about their version of Proteus).

 

[insane polaris]

i loved 90's X-men show.

though i did laugh when the colours of things changed from shot to shot.

 

[Max Shrek]

Anyone else think it was a shame that in the end, Pietro didn't accept Wanda's offer? I would've liked that better, I think. Despite saving him from his fall, Pietro decides he's finished being treated like the child-unloved and that Magneto is only looking to him now that his other children have abandoned him. It would have succeeded in two ways, in my mind. It would have left Magneto even MORE alone and desperate and defeated, all of his children leaving him because of the things he's done to each one of them. To have the one he treated the worst go, "Ooh, ooh, I'm still with you!" removes some of the punch. Also, it would have left both Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver on the side of the angels and quite frankly, I prefer both when they're on that side (it also would have left it open for the pair of them to join the upcoming Earth's Mightest Heroes after S2 of WATXM).

 

[TheVileOne]

I don't think Pietro is a bad guy, he just badly wants his father's love, respect, and approval.

 

[Max Shrek]

Well, yeah, of course. It's just part of me would've thought it would have been nice for him to accept that Magneto's belated response was not genuine love and respect, but merely because everyone else had left him, allowing Pietro to go full circle and make Magneto's downfall even more tragic.

 

[Dread]

I don't believe Pietro is "evil" per sey in this show, although he does have a meaner streak than Wanda has. He is perfectly willing to do nasty things to further his father's goals. While it is also due to wanting his approval and love, which Magneto has bestowed his daughters, he doesn't usually balk at things like raids or acts of terrorism, things Wanda may be less inclined to do. Scarlet Witch seemed to only fight out of self defense.

I do agree that it might be interesting if Quicksilver had accepted her invitation, but the show had established him as being eager to gain his father's approval no matter what. Now he may see that as being close to possible now that Magneto almost literally has no one else. In EVOLUTION the show's writers had Pietro and Wanda clearly defined when they were enemies and seemed to struggle when they no longer were.

It would be cool if this show had a continuity with the upcoming AVENGERS cartoon by Chris Yost in 2012, when WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN would be on a third season at least. This incarnation of Wanda is well acted and designed, and the Hulk will be a part of AVENGERS too. That said, 2012 is another 2-3 seasons away, so there is no telling how the twins will end up or where they will go.

Those were some of my favourite parts of the show. I actually thought their version of the Phoenix Saga (as opposed to the Dark Phoenix one) exceeded the original (I'd say the same about their version of Proteus).

Proteus needed Colossus.

The alien stuff usually felt like a sci fi distraction, although I will admit coming to appreciate it more in my most recent viewing of the 90's show.

 

[Slim]

I really enjoyed this season. It felt like a wild ride, and it was a lot of fun watching. My (minor) problem with X-men Evolution is that it felt like for the first half of the show nothing really happened, it was small scaled, and wasn't important. Of course this was just building up characters and relationships, and the last half of the show was amazing because of it. This show skips all of this, and I think that is good and bad. On one hand it allows epic stories to be told right away without it being dragged down, and we get to see a storyline fulfill an entire, complex, and large scale arc without having to sit through entire exposition episodes on various backstories that slow the show down. On the other hand, the lack of characterization creates a lot of flaws, and people on here have already explained this much better than I could.

The thing is, this season felt like a second or third season. And if it was, I think it would have been brilliant. Leave season one to be all those episodes where we learn all about the characters and their relationships, and than we would actually care about them more. But it didn't happen this way, and instead there was a lot of plot.

But, I have to say, I LOVE the plot/s. I think that the execution, advancement, and progress of the arcs have been done extremely well. This show succeeded in a lot of ways and I think it's because they've been allowed to incorporate a lot things into this show that have never been explored before, and get right to the point with things that are central to the X-world.

My Review

Spoiler

What I really liked:
Magneto, Wanda, Pietro, and Lorna. This show has done an amazing job developing these characters. Magneto's role as leader of Genosha was really interesting, and I thought they balanced him out extremely well. From him being a great villain who'll sacrifice anything for his own goals of what he thinks is right, to someone who loves his family (well, his daughters anyway) and has created a peaceful nation and refuge for many mutants (though we know how that turned out).

This version of Wanda was the best ever. In retrospect, I don't really care for Evo's Wanda, but it worked for that show. This version is much truer to her comic book counterpart, she has a great designed, and her character grows and develops a lot. Her relationship with Nightcrawler is really interesting and they work really well with each other. I loved seeing her turn from someone who believed in her father and what he has done, to taking Genosha away from him. She's definitely a highlight of the season for me.

Pietro is also a nicely developed character who has complex motives. He has obvious daddy issues, which is a point of some sympathy. He'll do anything his father says, but he'll never really get his full approval. sad. I didn't like how Wanda and Pietro were complete enemies in Evo, so I'm glad this show toned it down a little. I liked Lorna too, who wasn't anything like her comic counterpart, but is still a great character. Precious, fragile daddy's girl who completely shatters when it all falls apart. And her little thing with Gambit was fun. It'll be great to see where her character goes now that Magneto will no longer be in Genosha.

I also really loved Genosha. That placed looked gorgeous and beautiful, and it was sad to see it destroyed. I like seeing it so important in a cartoon, as both a mutant sanctuary and a political presence that had the ultimate purpose for Magnetos destructive plan. Can't wait to see it in the second season, with its rebuilding and Wanda's leadership.

Angel also has his best version in this show, bringing one of the most emotional episode of the season. His conflict with his dad really expresses the conflict of many mutants and their families. His tragic fall was handled really well, and it was one of my favourite episodes of the season. Sinister was great too, and I can't wait to see him, Archangel, and, maybe, X-man.

Nightcrawler was done well, although I didn't like how he had two episodes involving Mojo (who has absolutely no place in this show). He was still awesome and effective, and the visual effect of his teleportation was really neat.

Emma Frost in her first appearance as an X-men is fantastic. Probably the most sympathetic character on the team, interestingly enough. Her voice is perfect, love her design (surprising amount of comic accurate cleavage lol). I would have liked her to be more snarky though. Hopefully she'll be back!

I liked the future timeline too, and the introduction of some characters like Hellion (missed him in the finale lol) and a great representation of Bishop. I really liked "Rover" and was happy to see a future timeline storyline that wasn't too convoluted.

The animation, character design, and voice acting are great, creating a realistic interpretation of the characters that isn't over-the-top, while still being true to the comics in a lot of ways.

Some things that could have been better:
I'm not going to talk about Cyclops too much, because so many people have talked about him already. But... as a Cyclops fan I have a lot of problems. I'm a little less critical then Dread is, though. I didn't really find him obsessed over Jean to the point of being creepy or anything. I think he's justified in that they BOTH obviously need each other. They were both shown to be fragile and tormented, but when they met they were happy, and their confidence grew. I don't think it was just because Scott wanted someone to give him confidence, but because he is genuinely worried about her out there. They're best friends, they've been through everything with each other, so he's going to be tormented again without her. I think Jean would be the same way if it was the other way around. I think this show established that much. (By the way, I'm someone who actually finds Jean interesting).

But one twenty second flash of showing Scott lead and be competent would have been great! Just something that shows he isn't that pathetic and sad... oh well.

I thought phoenix was interesting. I liked the explanation of it and the Hellfire club's role, and all the twists in the show involving Jean, Emma and the pilot explosion. I think my favourite sequence in the entire season was Jean being tricked into opening the doors of the telepathic blocks in her mind, with the last door being a bird cage. I actually thought that was brilliant, and would have loved to have seen that in X-men 3.

But what I didn't like is what Dread said about it being combined with another pretty much unrelated storyline. I really liked it when it was established that the war causes so much stress on Jean that she can't handle it anymore, and the psychic fire causes the apocalypse. But that turned out to not even be the case at all, and it was the Inner Circle, not the war, that caused it all. I am a big fan of the Dark Phoenix arc so I was happy to actually see it play a role in this season, but I was disappointed by some things... like Jean never actually being consumed by the Phoenix in a fiery raptor with her friends trying to save/stop her, and downplaying the corruption Jean went through with her powers. Another problem was we didn't see the true scope of it. It was supposed to destroy everything, but we really didn't see its potential. It destroyed a couple Sentinels and fought Cyclops. That's it. Still, it was pretty interesting interpretation of everything, and I liked it for the most part.

The thing I liked least about this show was the X-men themselves. I thought the show did a great job with the world it established and other things, but they failed on the X-men. I honestly don't care about Kitty, Bobby, and Storm because they've barely had any lines and no development. I forgot about Rogue and Beast half way through, and Forge doesn't even matter. I really hope they are fleshed out next season, because this is an X-men cartoon and they need to be important.

And I don't even care about Wolverine. I've learned to more or less block him out. I thought he'd be in it way more than he was, so I was happy he wasn't saving the day every single time or was central to any major plot line. He was alright.

I find it interesting how this show is sooo different than Evo. Pretty much the opposite in scope and direction, for better or worse.

 

[foxwolf2099]

while i know the phoenix saga is a huge storyline in the x-men history, I'm just a little bored at the old fashion hellfire club characters. theres just nothing exciting about sebastian and the gang.

i dont read the comics but did they ever retell the phoenix saga in a different way?

 

[warmachine300]

After watching the whole Wolverine & X-Men season it has actually made me go back and watch Evolution again, again AND AGAIN! And I must say I appreciate it a lot more. I have always loved Evolution and rated it a lot higher than WAX but now I rate it even more so. The first 2 seasons of Evolution in my opinion, were the most important seasons of them all because they built the character foundations. The plots may not have been as epic in the first half, but every episode was still action packed. I cared for EVERY single character. Including the brotherhood & new recruits. The truth could not be so far removed for WAX. Too many epic plots episode after episode. There were however, a couple of episodes where the plot was very light-hearted or of little to do with the bigger picture i.e Code Of Conduct but they wasted all those gems on Wolverine solo episodes. As if he wasn't already hogging all the screen time. Thats where they screwed up. As much as I enjoyed Wolverine vs Hulk, I could have done without it. They could have used episodes like that to build on some of the other neglected characters & sub-plots they built up.. For example, In Battlelines there was an indication for a Bobby & Kitty relationship. After that episode, that story arc appeared to have been abandoned. THIRTEEN episodes later and NO follow up. So what was the point?

Maybe their building on something special for them in season 2 but I doubt it, plus too much has happened since then that I doubt I will actually care if they revisited the Bobby & Kitty story arc again. With the AOA drafted to be the main focus of season 2, I'm sensing more fast packed, action orientated epic story lines which again will leave no room for characterization.

I'll hold my breath though, maybe they'll prove me wrong.

 

[Slim]

Yeah, I like Evolution more too. It would have been great to see those characters engage in a plot like what WATX gave us. This show definitely needs to have some fun! But I guess that's how the comics are, so that tone is pretty faithful. It also needs more focus on the X-men as a team. The characters need to talk to each other, and we need to see them act as a team more.

I was hoping that they wanted to begin the show with a bang (and they did), and then maybe have time to breathe next season... but that doesn't look like it's the case. I'm not really looking forward to AoA, because I think one season heavily focusing on a future timeline is enough.

 

[x-men_pro]

i was just thinking,now that jean is back i wonder what her x-men costume will be?we have seen her in her civilian clothes and a red dress.i wonder if it will be the green phoenix outfit or the white one cause thats what she wore last....

 

[bryanss3]

That is a good question. I'd like to see something other than the Phoenix costume, but I can't say any others will look right.