The Bond 23 Thread

[The Joker]

Terrible line, and when he does the kung fu moves in front of Michelle Yeoh's character when she's caught.....

[YT]jwNej77PVLI[/YT]

 

[Metallo]

Btw, as I said before, my favorite villain plot is Thunderball. Largo's plan of stealing atomic bombs and holding the world for ransom may not be as creative, but I always felt that added great tension and suspense to Bond finding the bombs.

See even though its not very clever I can believe Thunderballs big scheme in the espionage (with a fantastical twist) world of Bond. And I can see a pretty clear benefit off holding the worlds governments hostage with nukes.

I'll go with a simple but well told idea over a unique but poorly conceived one.

It was a shame given that there is definitely good material in a crazy power mad media mogul, but they got the balance wrong and he came off as goofy.

The fact that Carver got killed and I didn't have a sense of satisfaction drives that home. That should be what you look forward to most at the end.

One day I'd like to see the Bond movies revisit some of those ideas in TND though. I really do look at guys like Ted Turner and Rupert Murdoch and its scary how they can use their reach to condition public opinion. Its got to be something much more sinister than "I get off on controlling what people read" though. It should be taken to the next logical step.

Maybe do something a little more "Manchurian Candidate"-esque one day.

006's was a decent one and King's had a degree of possibility in it, I think with Bond it's how the villain is presented that tips the balance on whether the audience can suspend disbelief for the plan or not, as PW pointed out with Stromberg > Drax.

I agree. The more compelling the villain the easier it is to buy the villains plan. I think its good to keep it simple but interesting though. Was watching QOS and while Quantum and Greenes goals make sense there are so many twists and turns that its hard to follow sometimes.

Agreed, it was no coincidence that Moore's next outing as Bond was a very scaled back cold war type of espionage thriller, maybe the most grounded plot of all the Bond movies.

FYEO definitely needed that grounding. with Moonraker it good a little to big. The Spy Who Loved Me found the perfect balance but Moonraker went to over the top in many areas. It does have a couple of the best one liners in the series.

 

[The Joker]

There's a good question. Which villains do you think had the best and most memorable demises?

Some of my favorites:

- Red Grant being strangled by Bond
- Oddjob's electrocution
- Goldfinger being sucked out of the de-pressurized plane
- Vargas getting impaled with the spear gun
- Tee Hee getting tossed out the train window
- Xenia Onatopp getting slammed against that tree by the crashing helicopter Bond hooks her onto

Dumbest death has to be Kananga getting inflated by that gas pellet.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

You're missing Stromberg getting shot in the balls by Bond.
And 006 having a his own satelitte system fall on him.

 

[Metallo]

TND is an okay film, but I can see why people were disappointed with this film after seeing Goldeneye.

I was pretty darn disappointed. I thought Goldeneye was a great kickoff point to refresh the series and TND just felt so...typical sometimes.

The villains the plan, Teri Hatchers wooden acting. Didn't feel as though as much passion went into it as Goldeneye.

Agreed, TND was probably an even bigger disappointment as a follow up to Goldeneye, than Quantum of Solace was as a follow up to Casino Royale.

Thats interesting isn't it? Like Brocolli and Wilson got overconfident with the relaunch of the series in both cases and didn't work as hard to put together more polished follow ups.

Thats happened a few times with Bond and we've seen the cycle over and over.

QoS is really unfocused as far as its story is TND is just so uninspired sometimes.

Die Another Day may be the lowpoint though It often became a generic American action movie, CGI overload and all. Should have just called DAD XXX 2 and teamed Bond up with Xander Cage.

In the last 3 decades or so I sometimes feel as though Bond is following trends instead of setting them like he used to. Even in the good films like Casino Royal.

Then you get less impressive movies like Moonraker, DAD, and QOS that take it even further but aren't as quality.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I'd even add Moonraker as a huge disappointment after The Spy Who Loved Me

The biggest disappointment is and will always be Diamonds are Forever after On Her Majety's Secret Service.

 

[Gold Samurai]

What was License to Kill's Sanchez's main villain plan? To shoot down airliner's with stinger missiles?

Sometimes the plans either are so GRAND or they're really low key. I think Kamal Khan's was just the bomb at circus or a new drug.

 

[Hunter Rider]

After what happened with that other potential franchise with Campbell, I'd be surprised if EON talks to him, and he doesn't at least consider it.

I wonder why he was resistant to making more Bond movies int he first place, they have been his most successful films.

[YT]jwNej77PVLI[/YT]

Yeoh's facial expression says it all.

See even though its not very clever I can believe Thunderballs big scheme in the espionage (with a fantastical twist) world of Bond. And I can see a pretty clear benefit off holding the worlds governments hostage with nukes.

I'll go with a simple but well told idea over a unique but poorly conceived one.

I agree, Thunderball was essentially espionage on a grand scale and well executed.

The fact that Carver got killed and I didn't have a sense of satisfaction drives that home. That should be what you look forward to most at the end.

One day I'd like to see the Bond movies revisit some of those ideas in TND though. I really do look at guys like Ted Turner and Rupert Murdoch and its scary how they can use their reach to condition public opinion. Its got to be something much more sinister than "I get off on controlling what people read" though. It should be taken to the next logical step.

Maybe do something a little more "Manchurian Candidate"-esque one day.

Good point and they even went huge with his death scene given he was impaled with a massive drill, and it still didn't really make it imortant.

A media mogul looking to manipulate a presidential campaign and put a man in The White House could work.

I agree. The more compelling the villain the easier it is to buy the villains plan. I think its good to keep it simple but interesting though. Was watching QOS and while Quantum and Greenes goals make sense there are so many twists and turns that its hard to follow sometimes.

Yeah, there can definitely be a case where the plot is over egged.

FYEO definitely needed that grounding. with Moonraker it good a little to big. The Spy Who Loved Me found the perfect balance but Moonraker went to over the top in many areas. It does have a couple of the best one liners in the series.

When you look at it Moore's run veered between the two extremes at points, and with TSHLM they did hit the balance. I think it's interesting that while Moore was the least gritty of the Bond's, he had the movie with the most realistic espionage plot.

 

[Metallo]

There's a good question. Which villains do you think had the best and most memorable demises?

Some of my favorites:

- Red Grant being strangled by Bond
- Oddjob's electrocution
- Goldfinger being sucked out of the de-pressurized plane
- Vargas getting impaled with the spear gun
- Tee Hee getting tossed out the train window
- Xenia Onatopp getting slammed against that tree by the crashing helicopter Bond hooks her onto

Dumbest death has to be Kananga getting inflated by that gas pellet.

I also enjoyed seeing Sanchez getting drenched in gas and set on fire as a human torch. I was glad to see that happen to him.

I'd even add Moonraker as a huge disappointment after The Spy Who Loved Me

The biggest disappointment is and will always be Diamonds are Forever after On Her Majety's Secret Service.

DAF was Brocolli and Saltzman trying to freshen things up and keep the series relevant by changing with the times...and just totally f***ing it up. Theres parts of that movie I like but I'll go as far to say that I think its Connerys weakest.

Moonraker = cash in time. Like I said Bond used to set the trends but Moonraker was following a trend. A nd look at what they did to poor Jaws. Yeah I laughed at some of it but he was a way cooler bad guy in TSWLM.

 

[Gold Samurai]

Agreed on that, I think Pryce knew it was a lost cause as he played the role of Carver like he was in pantomime.

Michael G Wilson- Bond is back so lets bring back all the stuff people remember about Bond. The campy villain, the bad's elaborate bases, the gadget laden car!



Goldeneye follows the same Bond formula but it was executed much better.

 

[Hunter Rider]

There's a good question. Which villains do you think had the best and most memorable demises?

Some of my favorites:

- Red Grant being strangled by Bond
- Oddjob's electrocution
- Goldfinger being sucked out of the de-pressurized plane
- Vargas getting impaled with the spear gun
- Tee Hee getting tossed out the train window
- Xenia Onatopp getting slammed against that tree by the crashing helicopter Bond hooks her onto

Dumbest death has to be Kananga getting inflated by that gas pellet.

Bond's execution of Elektra King was pretty memorable for perhaps the most blunt display of Bond as an assassin.

Dropping Blofeld down a chimney was pretty inventive as well.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

DAF was Brocolli and Saltzman trying to freshen things up and keep the series relevant by changing with the times...and just totally f***ing it up. Theres parts of that movie I like but I'll go as far to say that I think its Connerys weakest.

Moonraker = cash in time. Like I said Bond used to set the trends but Moonraker was following a trend. A nd look at what they did to poor Jaws. Yeah I laughed at some of it but he was a way cooler bad guy in TSWLM.

It's a shame about DAF because if Lazenby stayed, they would have done a gritty follow-up to that.

And EON would do that several times with the Bond series. Octopussy I felt was a trend to cash-in on the success of the Indiana Jones movies. DAD was an attempt to cash-in on the CGI craziness of the beginning of the 2000s, and QoS was an attempt to cash-in on the Bourne movies.

EON needs to set trends, not fall victim to it.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I wonder why he was resistant to making more Bond movies int he first place, they have been his most successful films.

He doesn't like doing sequels. It was the same reason why there were 8 years between Zorro movies.

 

[Doctor Jones]

You're missing Stromberg getting shot in the balls by Bond.

That was SO BADASS.

 

[Metallo]

I wonder why he was resistant to making more Bond movies int he first place, they have been his most successful films.

After Green Lantern he might be more open to doing more

He's a good director but after the silly Legend of Zorro and the mediocre Green Lantern I really think he's only as good as his script and in more realistic films.

Mask of Zorro had its share of laughs but it also felt more organic. Legend of Zorro was really REALLY corny. To the point of being forced.

I'd welcome Campbell becoming more of a regular Bond director like Gilbert, Young, and Hamilton. Personally I think Campbells Bond movie track record may already be better than Guy Hamilton's even though Hamilton made more films. Both Campbells movies were good but DAF was so weak.

I agree, Thunderball was essentially espionage on a grand scale and well executed.

I love the depiction of SPECTRE in that movie. Blofeld isn't even seen yet and he still has an air of menace.

A media mogul looking to manipulate a presidential campaign and put a man in The White House could work.

I could see that working in Craigs Bond movies because its something I could see being done by the villains in Craigs movies. To have a president to help manipulate the global financial market to their advantage in any way he can or work with enemy nations or terror groups. I think it would have been too low key and cerebral for the Connery era but now? I'd be game for something like that. Interesting that the original Manchurian Candidate came out the same year as Dr No. John Frankenheimer directing a Bond film...hmmm.

When you look at it Moore's run veered between the two extremes at points, and with TSHLM they did hit the balance. I think it's interesting that while Moore was the least gritty of the Bond's, he had the movie with the most realistic espionage plot.

I see it as the producers trying to bring things back down to earth (literally) after Moonraker, changing with the times (its the 80's by this point), and its a movie more suited to John Glens talents. When I look at Glens Bond movies they all seem far more serious and less fantastical than Moores 70's Bond outings.

You're right about Moore though. His 7 movies really went from one extreme to another. I know Moore didn't care for violence and preferred it a little more tongue in cheek but TSWLM was him at his best and he was really good in more series Bond films. He arguably had better natural comedic timing than any other Bond actor so I don't fault them for playing to his strengths. Connery's humor was darker.

Dropping Blofeld down a chimney was pretty inventive as well.

"Mr Bond...we can make a deal! I'll buy you a delicatessen...in stainless steel!"

Beyond the jokes that really was Brocolli/Eon telling Kevin McClory FU wasn't it?

It's a shame about DAF because if Lazenby stayed, they would have done a gritty follow-up to that.

And EON would do that several times with the Bond series. Octopussy I felt was a trend to cash-in on the success of the Indiana Jones movies. DAD was an attempt to cash-in on the CGI craziness of the beginning of the 2000s, and QoS was an attempt to cash-in on the Bourne movies.

EON needs to set trends, not fall victim to it.

I think things probably would have stayed more serious with Lazenby. I think part of the change in tone was to go along with the change in actor since they were trying to cast their third Bond actor for DAF. And thats one reason why Connery doesn't quite fit IMO. They may have readjusted things to suit him but it doesn't feel like a Connery Bond movie.

Its always strange when a Bond movie is in development and they aren't sure which actor they may go with. I can still see traces of Moores style of Bond in The Living Daylights and Dalton's in Goldeneye even though Both went through some changes to accommodate the new guy..

 

[The Batman]

I'd even add Moonraker as a huge disappointment after The Spy Who Loved Me

The biggest disappointment is and will always be Diamonds are Forever after On Her Majety's Secret Service.

I would say anyone who did More than one bond, besides connery, had a disappointing follow up after their first movie.

And I would say that the bond movies havent really set any trends since....thunderball. The 60's were the most relevant Bond was to pop culture. Now he's just an institution thats always around, barring a few breaks here and there.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Pretty much

I would say that Goldeneye also helped set a new standard for spy movies.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

General Orlov had the worst plan. I never believed for a second that it would actually work like he planned and even his fellow Soviets thought he was crazy.

Best plan was Kronsteen's, who should have succeeded if not for Grant messing things up by getting greedy.

For my favourite death, I will go with Bond setting Sanchez on fire with Leiter's lighter.

 

[The Batman]

QoS lacked a satisfying death for Greene.

 

[Spoonman]

I would say anyone who did More than one bond, besides connery, had a disappointing follow up after their first movie.

And I would say that the bond movies havent really set any trends since....thunderball. The 60's were the most relevant Bond was to pop culture. Now he's just an institution thats always around, barring a few breaks here and there.

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I preffer Licence to Kill (the follow up) to The Living Daylights (debut film), I like both Dalton movies thou.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I preffer Licence to Kill (the follow up) to The Living Daylights (debut film), I like both Dalton movies thou.

I agree with you. I didn't care for TLD, but thought LTK was one of the better ones, just missing out on my top ten Bond films.

 

[The Batman]

i find it a chore to watch really. even though i liked The living daylights, i find daltons run to be heavily overrated online, and i say this as someone who's read the books.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Dalton was great in TLD. He deserved so much better than LTK.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Dalton was great in TLD. He deserved so much better than LTK.

LTK was tailor made for his version of Bond.

The Living Daylights felt like he wandered in to the set of a Roger Moore movie. Makes sense, as it was written for Moore.

Goldeneye was supposedly written with Dalton in mind, explains why it is darker than the rest of Brosnan's outings.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

^ Exactly. It's sad with Brosnan because he wanted the darker movies. The tone of Casino Royale was the tone that Brosnan wanted in his movies but never got, with the closest being Goldeneye.