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BvS New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!) - Part 1

If what you say is true, there's one bit, that confuses us to think why Bruce was looking for the rock long before the flashpoint. Alfred says "White Portuguese isn't carrying a dirty bomb, what is it carrying?" It totally looked like Bruce was hiding it from Alfred for quite some time. As well as earlier rant of Alfred about how everything's changed and men falling from the sky. Even though it was attributed just to Bruce's branding criminals.

I personally like your idea better, because it removes a plot hole, that makes Bruce searching for something that didn't happen yet - smuggling of kryptonite. With you theory it makes more sense. Lex is denied in bringing kryptonite to US, he organizes the meeting at the library and feeds info to Bruce. Bruce "steals" the data, that also contains info on the K-rock.

The only problem with this theory - why is Bruce so obsessed with finding WP? It's especially confusing, because right before that we're shown how Bruce gets angry at Superman after Metropolis destruction. Again, I'm intrigued even more to see what was edited out of UC, especially from the first half of the film.
 
OutOfBoose said:
If what you say is true, there's one bit, that confuses us to think why Bruce was looking for the rock long before the flashpoint. Alfred says "White Portuguese isn't carrying a dirty bomb, what is it carrying?" It totally looked like Bruce was hiding it from Alfred for quite some time. As well as earlier rant of Alfred about how everything's changed and men falling from the sky. Even though it was attributed just to Bruce's branding criminals.

I personally like your idea better, because it removes a plot hole, that makes Bruce searching for something that didn't happen yet - smuggling of kryptonite. With you theory it makes more sense. Lex is denied in bringing kryptonite to US, he organizes the meeting at the library and feeds info to Bruce. Bruce "steals" the data, that also contains info on the K-rock.

The only problem with this theory - why is Bruce so obsessed with finding WP? It's especially confusing, because right before that we're shown how Bruce gets angry at Superman after Metropolis destruction. Again, I'm intrigued even more to see what was edited out of UC, especially from the first half of the film.
Click to expand...

And that's the best part about it! Batman was just chillin in Gotham and doing Batman things, doing detective work and trying to stop a dirty bomb from entering Gotham, to avoid millions of casualties. Just another day in the life of the true-to-comics Batman. :)

Yes, I will agree that the part where Alfred tells Bruce he knows he is lying is a bit confusing and make even me feel that Bruce knew about the K-rock from before, but it doesn't add up.

As you said, we could attribute it to the editing and things that were cut from the film, which might make it all clear when the UC comes out.
 
LamboMan said:
Yep, I agree!



And about the Bruce knowing about Kryptonite thing everyone is missing a crucial detail:

Nowhere in the Prequel comics or in the movie do they show that he had any knowledge of what Kryptonite was. To know what it was and what it could do would mean he HAD to get that information from AMRIID through LexCorp, meaning he would have ALREADY known that Lex was involved with the White Portuguese and wouldn't have had to follow the Russian around for information.

Lex being involved in the plot was a NEW piece of information to him. After he learned that Lex was somehow involved in 'imported arms' he breaks into his servers and after decrypting it learns about the Kryptonite.

I'll repeat, if he knew about the Kryptonite, nothing he did to find the White Portuguese makes any sense, since he would already have known who to target.
Click to expand...


Correct, he only becomes aware of kryptonite once he hacks into the servers, because Lex plants it in there once he is denied the import licence by Senator Finch (Lex doesn't care about the licence, he just tests Finch to see what side she is on, and when she refuses him he decided in that moment to kill her).
 
Jaxon said:
Correct, he only becomes aware of kryptonite once he hacks into the servers, because Lex plants it in there once he is denied the import licence by Senator Finch (Lex doesn't care about the licence, he just tests Finch to see what side she is on, and when she refuses him he decided in that moment to kill her).
Click to expand...

Spot on!
 
LamboMan said:
And that's the best part about it! Batman was just chillin in Gotham and doing Batman things, doing detective work and trying to stop a dirty bomb from entering Gotham, to avoid millions of casualties. Just another day in the life of the true-to-comics Batman. :)
Click to expand...
I can certainly buy it.
Yes, I will agree that the part where Alfred tells Bruce he knows he is lying is a bit confusing and make even me feel that Bruce knew about the K-rock from before, but it doesn't add up.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Original version isn't perfect either for reasons mentioned above.
As you said, we could attribute it to the editing and things that were cut from the film, which might make it all clear when the UC comes out.
Click to expand...
Yep. We need to see if UC makes one of the versions work more.
 
LamboMan said:
I think you guys will like this thing I wrote about Flash's appearance and how it changed the timelines in BvS. It has pictures to clearly illustrate what happened in detail:

The Flash Point Explained
Click to expand...

Interesting, I personally think the flash was referring to Darkseid but nicely done and very well thought out. Question: what do you think the flash was referring to when he said that he was 'too soon'?
 
SiriusLee said:
Interesting, I personally think the flash was referring to Darkseid but nicely done and very well thought out. Question: what do you think the flash was referring to when he said that he was 'too soon'?
Click to expand...

Thanks! I can see you might have cleared that up yourself but I'll just clarify anyway - "too soon" refers to Flash meeting Bruce too soon, before they had met in the future. That is why Bruce doesn't recognise the Flash and looks shocked and confused so Flash realises he has gone back too much into the past.

:)
 
Do you guys really believe this guy saw it 23 times?
 
OutOfBoose said:
If what you say is true, there's one bit, that confuses us to think why Bruce was looking for the rock long before the flashpoint. Alfred says "White Portuguese isn't carrying a dirty bomb, what is it carrying?" It totally looked like Bruce was hiding it from Alfred for quite some time. As well as earlier rant of Alfred about how everything's changed and men falling from the sky. Even though it was attributed just to Bruce's branding criminals.

I personally like your idea better, because it removes a plot hole, that makes Bruce searching for something that didn't happen yet - smuggling of kryptonite. With you theory it makes more sense. Lex is denied in bringing kryptonite to US, he organizes the meeting at the library and feeds info to Bruce. Bruce "steals" the data, that also contains info on the K-rock.

The only problem with this theory - why is Bruce so obsessed with finding WP? It's especially confusing, because right before that we're shown how Bruce gets angry at Superman after Metropolis destruction. Again, I'm intrigued even more to see what was edited out of UC, especially from the first half of the film.
Click to expand...

I'm actually feeling really confused about this thing now. Bruce tells Alfred that, "It's a weapon, a rock, capable of weakening Kryptonian cells. The first one that was big enough to mean anything turned up in the Indian Ocean, three months ago."

And if we recall the flow of events, the first scene after the MoS battle is the discovery of Kryptonite in the ocean. Then later, after that scene, we see Batman interrogating that goon who he brands but at that point he is asking him WHO, and not WHAT the WP is. We know this because the goon answers, "I don't know who he is, I don't know who he is."

So going by this flow of events, I now feel it would be safe to assume that Bruce DID know about the Kryptonite and what it can do since he could have possibly gained that information from USAMRIID, but most probably didn't know that LexCorp was involved since the research happened at the AMRIID facility instead of LexCorp, which was just taking a copy of that research for themselves.

This means that Bruce WAS in fact lying to Alfred about the 'dirty bomb' for some time.

Bruce would probably have come across mentions of the White Portuguese during his investigation into Kryptonite and it's location, and it would have lead him to assume that the WP was a buyer of the K-rock.

He didn't actually know it was a ship till he gets Lex's files. And he didn't know that Lex was involved until he cracks Anatoly's phone and gets that info.

So the flow of events goes like this >

1. Kryptonite found in Metropolis rubble by Lex's 'Rebuild Metropolis' crews.
2. Lex performs research via proxy at USAMRIID and gets the results.
3. Batman gets wind of this research and gets to know about Kryptonite and what it can do.
4. Bruce starts investigating the world for more mentions of Kryptonite.
5. Lex has his people searching the World Engine crash site for more Kryptonite.
6. The larger sample of Kryptonite is found in the Indian Ocean.
7. Lex begins the plan to smuggle it into Gotham after he is denied the import license by Finch.
8. The White Portuguese code word is put into effect by Lex who knows it is a ship but other than him and his people, no one knows.
9. Bruce catches wind of the White Portuguese and he thinks that is a buyer of the Kryptonite and so he starts tracking any mentions of the WP.
10. That leads him to the human trafficking goon who leads him to Anatoly.
11. He tracks Anatoly and clones his phone after the boxing match.
12. He finds that Lex is involved and could possibly be the WP.
13. He hacks into Lex's servers and gets the data he was looking for all this time.
14. He begins the decryption.
15. Knightmare happens, he learns that Kryptonite is essential or else he WILL fail (he remembers his death in the Knightmare).
16. He learns that Superman is a confirmed threat and that if there is even a 1% chance from his vision that Superman is a threat, he must take it as a certainty.
17. He wakes up from the Knightmare and goes through Lex's files and learns that the WP is actually a ship and not a person and that Lex was going to import it via sea.
18. He tells Alfred about the ship but doesn't mention the Kryptonite.
19. Alfred who has picked up on the fact that Bruce was lying about the dirty bomb for some time, confronts him with it.
20. Bruce reveals everything to Alfred and then goes to attack the convoy at the port.

Confusion eliminated! :D
 
Last edited:
LamboMan said:
I'm actually feeling really confused about this thing now. Bruce tells Alfred that, "It's a weapon, a rock, capable of weakening Kryptonian cells. The first one that was big enough to mean anything turned up in the Indian Ocean, three months ago."

And if we recall the flow of events, the first scene after the MoS battle is the discovery of Kryptonite in the ocean. Then later, after that scene, we see Batman interrogating that goon who he brands but at that point he is asking him WHO, and not WHAT the WP is. We know this because the goon answers, "I don't know who he is, I don't know who he is."

So going by this flow of events, I now feel it would be safe to assume that Bruce DID know about the Kryptonite and what it can do since he could have possibly gained that information from USAMRIID, but most probably didn't know that LexCorp was involved since the research happened at the AMRIID facility instead of LexCorp, which was just taking a copy of that research for themselves.

This means that Bruce WAS in fact lying to Alfred about the 'dirty bomb' for some time.

Bruce would probably have come across mentions of the White Portuguese during his investigation into Kryptonite and it's location, and it would have lead him to assume that the WP was a buyer of the K-rock.

He didn't actually know it was a ship till he gets Lex's files. And he didn't know that Lex was involved until he cracks Anatoly's phone and gets that info.

So the flow of events goes like this >

1. Kryptonite found in Metropolis rubble by Lex's 'Rebuild Metropolis' crews.
2. Lex performs research via proxy at USAMRIID and gets the results.
3. Batman gets wind of this research and gets to know about Kryptonite and what it can do.
4. Bruce starts investigating the world for more mentions of Kryptonite.
5. Lex has his people searching the World Engine crash site for more Kryptonite.
6. The larger sample of Kryptonite is found in the Indian Ocean.
7. Lex begins the plan to smuggle it into Gotham after he is denied the import license by Finch.
8. The White Portuguese code word is put into effect by Lex who knows it is a ship but other than him and his people, no one knows.
9. Bruce catches wind of the White Portuguese and he thinks that is a buyer of the Kryptonite and so he starts tracking any mentions of the WP.
10. That leads him to the human trafficking goon who leads him to Anatoly.
11. He tracks Anatoly and clones his phone after the boxing match.
12. He finds that Lex is involved and could possibly be the WP.
13. He hacks into Lex's servers and gets the data he was looking for all this time.
14. He begins the decryption.
15. Knightmare happens, he learns that Kryptonite is essential or else he WILL fail (he remembers his death in the Knightmare).
16. He learns that Superman is a confirmed threat and that if there is even a 1% chance from his vision that Superman is a threat, he must take it as a certainty.
17. He wakes up from the Knightmare and goes through Lex's files and learns that the WP is actually a ship and not a person and that Lex was going to import it via sea.
18. He tells Alfred about the ship but doesn't mention the Kryptonite.
19. Alfred who has picked up on the fact that Bruce was lying about the dirty bomb for some time, confronts him with it.
20. Bruce reveals everything to Alfred and then goes to attack the convoy at the port.

Confusion eliminated! :D
Click to expand...

I'd need to see the movie again but I'm positive the story being told is that Bruce only becomes aware of kryptonite's existence once he extracts the information from the party because then he has the conversation with Alfred about it where Alfred asks him if he's going to steal and Bruce goes on his 1% tirade.

It is clear that Lex knows about it well in advance as he has informants within STAR Labs and pretty much everywhere else and of course reveals it in the conversation with Senator Finch in the movie's best conversational piece.
 
Jaxon said:
I'd need to see the movie again but I'm positive the story being told is that Bruce only becomes aware of kryptonite's existence once he extracts the information from the party because then he has the conversation with Alfred about it where Alfred asks him if he's going to steal and Bruce goes on his 1% tirade.

It is clear that Lex knows about it well in advance as he has informants within STAR Labs and pretty much everywhere else and of course reveals it in the conversation with Senator Finch in the movie's best conversational piece.
Click to expand...

Alfred literally says "you've never been too hot at lying to me". So yes, Bruce always knew the item being imported was Kryptonite and lied to Alfred about it being a 'dirty bomb'. What he learnt from Lex's information was that 'White Portuguese' was a ship rather than a person.
 
Here's some positivity. As disappointed, and as frustrated I was with BvS. Considering it's potential was even greater. Having seen Civil War last night. I feel that movie was hideously overrated. And besides Paul Rudd and Spiderman, I actually enjoyed BvS more. And also thought it was better. So seeing Civil War actually helped my perception of BvS in retrospect.
 
This thread has nothing to do with Civil War, folks.
 
Batman v superman dawn of justice is hard hitting. I found that the characters are still the characters we know and love. I don't have a problem with Batman killing. I understand completely why Bats would want to kill Superman because a humans 1% rampage is nothing really on the scale of what Superman could do if he went rogue. Batman has seen good people go bad and Batman has probably never encountered a Superman as Alfred put it now the game has changed since the arrival of Superman. Batman won't risk the lives of the world hoping Superman stays good. He just sees him as a human looking alien with God like powers and Batman is the only one with the know how to take him down. Doesn't matter that Superman is shown to be saving people or do good things because Batman views him that he wouldn't stay good forever and why risk that. When Batman finds out that he has a mother that happens to have the same name as his then his whole view of Superman changes. Just because of what the the name Martha means to bruce. Look what what happened to bruce when his Martha died now imagine what would happen with a human with God like powers when his Martha would of died by thugs. That's why bruce changes his mind.
 
LamboMan said:
Amazing articles for all to read. Brilliant breakdowns of the movie and all characters:

http://www.thegekdom.com/home/2016/4/30/a-thesis-on-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice

http://www.thegekdom.com/home/2016/...-the-greatest-batman-and-superman-moment-ever
Click to expand...

I've got to say, I think it's all very obvious in the movie, it's just the My Superman and My Batman stigma that fanboys don't like, and the general seriousness of the movie that the GA can't connect to.

But I wouldn't have the DCEU any other way.
 
Can somebody guide me to the write up of the Arthurian parallels in BvS?
 
Jaxon said:
I've got to say, I think it's all very obvious in the movie, it's just the My Superman and My Batman stigma that fanboys don't like, and the general seriousness of the movie that the GA can't connect to.

But I wouldn't have the DCEU any other way.
Click to expand...

True. It comes down to being not my Superman or not my Batman and with that way of thinking fans can't get past someone else coming along and saying something different and maybe more controversial about these characters which maybe conflicts with their own ideas of the characters which starts claims and complaints that Zac or the writers don't know these characters or doesn't like them. Alot of the themes and arcs flew over people's heads which were clearly stated in the film. The movie is its own beast. Just like any cartoon or comic/graphic novel. Snyder knows exactly what he is doing but because everything isn't given to you at once and makes you connect the dots yourself kills it for an audience that needs it all spelled out. Batman kills in this which some have cried that he shouldn't and the comic Batman wouldn't do that but this isn't the comic Batman so what this Batman has gone through and seen yes this one would and has killed and is more brutal and is justifiable in doing so.
Superman not smiling which has got to be the most misunderstood criticism for bvs. Superman smiling is what a he might do in other mediums but that isn't a trait that makes him Superman.
 
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