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All Things Wonder Woman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

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"You're mother and I believed Krypton lost something precious. The element of choice."

So what is the choice in Jor-el's, "meant to be the bridge.." Meant to be isn't a choice. It's options.

Options made for him. The writing is bad.

I disagree. Options are still choices, and just because Jor-El says something doesn't mean that Clark has to go through with it. That's Donner Jor-El -- the guy who tells his son it's either Superman or love, and if he wants to love then he best get rid of his powers. If he wants to be Superman, then he can't have a girlfriend. The guy who, when Superman walks into the Fortress, downloads him with his entire being including telling him to have a secret identity. Alternatively, in the DCEU, Jonathan and Jor-El give Kal suggestions and options, but it's Clark who makes the ultimate choice. Indeed, Jor-El's dream of Kal being a bridge is something Kal considers when Zod offers him that choice. When he talks to Martha, look at what she says and he says:

Clark: Mom, Zod said this Codex he's looking for can bring my people back.
Martha: Isn't that a good thing?
Clark: I don't think they're interested in sharing this world.

Even Jor-El believes in co-existence and urges Zod to consider it:

Jor-El: Our people can co-exist.
Zod: So we can suffer through years of pain trying to adapt like your son has?
Jor-El: You're talking about genocide.
Zod: Yes. And I'm arguing its merits with a ghost.

Clark would like to be able to be a bridge and to share Earth with the Kryptonians, and so would Jor-El, but he has to make a choice. When Jor-El suggests being a bridge, he doesn't define exactly what that means or what that looks like. Clark is the one who ultimately decides what that will be, and he decides that Zod's method of terraforming the Earth is a step too far and that a true co-existence is impossible. He then has to attempt to banish Zod and the rest to the Phantom Zone, and when all but Zod remain, he takes Zod out. The choices before him weren't black and white, and he had the agency to make them as he saw fit.

That's fine, but in the Kent's case, they've colored his opinion not based on individual people, but don't trust people in general. That's not a good superhero foundation. The Amazon's mistrust but they understand what their duties are.

Huh? You just got done belittling Jor-El for merely giving Clark options, but then you praise the Amazons for pushing the notion that protecting people should be done out of a sense of duty and based on deciding who is deserving according to them. How does that work? Also, the Kents never said don't trust people in general. Remember when Martha told this to Clark?

Martha: I worried all the time.
Clark: You worried the truth would come out.
Martha: No. The truth about you is beautiful. We saw that the moment we laid eyes on you. We knew that one day, the whole world would see that.

Jonathan spoke of the future as a time when Clark and the world would be ready; their advice was as parents to a child not to an adult. They just see the world as Diana comes to see it:
as filled with people who are light and dark and who are capable of making choices that are in the light. Diana doesn't even trust humanity after killing Ludendorff fails. She rejects them and would've continued to do so had Ares not shown up and Steve not taught her a lesson she apparently didn't already know.
 
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Honestly, the next Superman director should watch The Iron Giant (now on US Netflix), assuming Brad Bird never gets available (Incredibles 2 would probably get him busy)-

There's plenty of Superman stories to pull from. Read Superman: Birthright. The scene where Clark figures out how to disguise his body vs. the 2 second montage we got at the end of MOS is a key difference in someone making a choice of sacrifice to make a disguise work and two supportive parents.
 
As per usual I see we want to re-litigate MOS and BvS in threads with even the most tangential relationship with them.
 
There's plenty of Superman stories to pull from. Read Superman: Birthright. The scene where Clark figures out how to disguise his body vs. the 2 second montage we got at the end of MOS is a key difference in someone making a choice of sacrifice to make a disguise work and two supportive parents.

Moving our discussion here where I've been trying to keep the Superman talk...
 
Ha ha, Disney won't like dip in sales of Beauty and the Beast merch. :oldrazz:

Frozen 2 will have Elsa and Anna both dressing up as superheroes and go to a place called the No Man's Land. Young girls will love Frozen again. :oldrazz:
 
Ha ha, Disney won't like dip in sales of Beauty and the Beast merch. :oldrazz:

WB: "we totally love and respect Beauty and the Beast and support its sales"
turns around
"Jon Johns and Joss, rack up that screen time for Diana in JL, muhahaha":sly:
 
As per usual I see we want to re-litigate MOS and BvS in threads with even the most tangential relationship with them.

I for one am making comparisons between the films, which is not at all off topic. Now there are certain other people who can't stop rehashing old debates.
 
image.jpg
 
Gotham City Sirens and Batgirl are on the way too. Marvel have been caught out.
 
awww!

i didnt believe ww would have such an impact either until now. kudos to jenkins & gadot
 

* I showed the movie to my dead grandmother and she's alive now.
* My city is now named "Gal Gadot".
* I screamed "girl power" from my 11th floor and 2,500 women gathered and started signing "You don't own me".

I can't believe people believe this. Especially the director and supposedly the producer.
 
No one. If you believe that Tumblr post you're naive. That's it.
 
So much hatred in such a small person. It will be your downfall.
 
* I showed the movie to my dead grandmother and she's alive now.
* My city is now named "Gal Gadot".
* I screamed "girl power" from my 11th floor and 2,500 women gathered and started signing "You don't own me".

I can't believe people believe this. Especially the director and supposedly the producer.

I'm just tired of people posting the same thing in multiple threads and forums.

No one. If you believe that Tumblr post you're naive. That's it.

Believe it or not I think it's corny.
Though I doubt a 5yr old could remember how to say Themyscira correctly. But I do know a 3yr old who wanted to be addressed as Ariel and then Muana so I'm sure a 5yr old would want to be called WW or Diana.
I just saw a girl wearing a WW shirt and that was good enough for me.
 
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My very young nephews who saw the movie this weekend were very seriously discussing if WW was stronger than Superman because she was a goddess.
 
My very young nephews who saw the movie this weekend were very seriously discussing if WW was stronger than Superman because she was a goddess.

Does your nephew thinks Thor is stronger than Superman because he's a god?
 
* My city is now named "Gal Gadot".

Don't be ridiculous. With all of the administrative procedures and red tape, that can't realistically happen for another week or two :cwink:
 
Don't be ridiculous. With all of the administrative procedures and red tape, that can't realistically happen for another week or two :cwink:

3 weeks it is
 
Some people may complain about death of certain characters, but to me it's the norm for DC cmb films --

Superman (1978) --Lois Lana died (and brought back to life).
Superman II (1980 theatrical release) --Zod, Ursa & Non died.
Batman (1989) --Joker died.
Batan Retuns (1992) --the Penguin died.
Superman Returns (2006) --Superman died and returned.
Batman Begins (2005) --Ra's al Ghul died.
TDK (2008) --Harvey Dent died.
Man of Steel (2013) --Zod, Faora-Ul, Dr. Emil Hamilton died.
Batman v Superman (2016) --Jimmy Olsen (?), Mercy Graves, KGBeast, Superman died (still dead...). Doomsdaaaaaaaay probably died.
Wonder Woman (2017) --Antiope & Steve Trevor died. Ares probably died.
 
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