If you could rewrite history as far as the DCEU

Lynda Carter might have been a little older than her costars, but she still looked amazing (Heck, she looks amazing now! I swear, that woman does not age!)

When Wonder Woman was airing first time around I had quite a few posters of Lynda in my bedroom. She made quite an impression on a lad in his early to mid-teens! :yay:
 
What I find hilarious is with the latest Marvel movie Infinity War, Marvel now does dark and gritty better than DC.
 
Actually Lynda Carter wouldn't have been older than her costars. Carter was born in 1951, Keaton was born in 1951, and Reeve was born in 1952
 
What I find hilarious is with the latest Marvel movie Infinity War, Marvel now does dark and gritty better than DC.

There's nothing Dark And gritty about infinity war. And before you say half the universe gets erased. Dark and gritty is about Heroes struggling to be heroes, because of their personal insecurities and issues. There is none of that in IW.
 
Basically DC doesn't do conflict and drama well because if they did then people would be talking about DC just as much as they do Marvel
 
Basically DC doesn't do conflict and drama well because if they did then people would be talking about DC just as much as they do Marvel

DC's problems boiled down is, for the most part, their characters are unlikeable.
 
Basically DC doesn't do conflict and drama well because if they did then people would be talking about DC just as much as they do Marvel

Are you implying that conflict and drama are the main talking points of the MCU? Because I'm not sure that they are. Not saying that it doesn't have them (or that people don't talk about them when it does) but I've always thought of the MCU's main ingredients as action and humour.
 
There's nothing Dark And gritty about infinity war. And before you say half the universe gets erased. Dark and gritty is about Heroes struggling to be heroes, because of their personal insecurities and issues. There is none of that in IW.

What you describe as dark and gritty really isn't. Is Spider-Man 2 dark and gritty? I don't think IW is but don't agree with your breakdown of dark and gritty.
 
I'll say one thing, I watched Suicide Squad again over the weekend and quite honestly, I had a genuinely good time with the movie, I still think there's a lot of fun charm to the cast that makes them endearing and they carry the movie through its myriad of issues.

With that said, though, they need to dump Leto and start from scratch with the Joker. I appreciate what Ayer was going for but it didn't work, his Joker was all sorts of wrong on so many levels. I'm not saying reboot, I'm saying recast with someone else, give us classic purple suit, red lipstick, green hair, cackling like a maniac Joker and pretend Leto's incarnation never happened. If people like it, no one will care or remember the prior incarnation anyway. This is coming from someone whose a fan and often defends the DCEU the way it is now, Joker needs a complete do-over asap.
 
I'll say one thing, I watched Suicide Squad again over the weekend and quite honestly, I had a genuinely good time with the movie, I still think there's a lot of fun charm to the cast that makes them endearing and they carry the movie through its myriad of issues.

With that said, though, they need to dump Leto and start from scratch with the Joker. I appreciate what Ayer was going for but it didn't work, his Joker was all sorts of wrong on so many levels. I'm not saying reboot, I'm saying recast with someone else, give us classic purple suit, red lipstick, green hair, cackling like a maniac Joker and pretend Leto's incarnation never happened. If people like it, no one will care or remember the prior incarnation anyway. This is coming from someone whose a fan and often defends the DCEU the way it is now, Joker needs a complete do-over asap.

Pretty much agree with every word. The biggest surprise for me was Jai Courtney as Boomerang. I thought he absolutely nailed it and he was hilarious (probably my favourite cast member after Robbie). And yes, get rid of Leto's Joker.
 
I'm actually not opposed to keeping Leto. I know that a lot of people (myself included) find him insufferable, but he is a good actor. They just need to completely do away with the juggalo look.
 
I’ve never had an issue with Leto. I think he could be a fine Joker if given different material and more screen time.
 
By the time Tim Burton's Batman came out, and The Flash debuted on TV, I was in Junior High. But I still would have LOVED to see a team up of all these characters at that time. Or at least Superman, Batman, The Flash, and Wonder Woman. Lynda Carter might have been a little older than her costars, but she still looked amazing (Heck, she looks amazing now! I swear, that woman does not age!)

Rorschach2012's post made me look up all of the actors' ages and they were all actually about the same age, including John Wesley-Shipp, who was born in '55. So yeah, definitely a huge missed opportunity for a JL movie in the 90s, when they've would've all been in their late 30s. It's too bad Reeve is no longer with us now, otherwise maybe we could've had aged versions of their respective superheroes in either a TDKR, Batman Beyond, or other advanced-timeline universe. Or maybe you don't even need Reeve's Superman, since it could be possible to write a story without Superman even.

I wouldn’t describe IW as dark or gritty.

x2 on this. IW tonally is still far from one of the quintessential "dark & gritty" DC movies like BB or TDK. IW was just more serious and dramatic, but both BB and TDK had that crime thriller atmosphere that made them feel dark & gritty. And when you add in some of the other DC movies like Watchmen, V for Vendetta, and Constantine, the recurring tone/style is noticeable. Also I think if anything, "dark" doesn't mean just the feel/tone in the DC movies, but they also tend to actually look darker & blacker on screen with deeper blacks and heightened shadows, whether in night-time or low-lit indoor scenes. If you compare the cinematography of most of the Marvel movies versus the DC movies, there's definitely a consistent visual look between the brands as well, and DC isn't called "dark" for nothing! ;)
 
I'm actually not opposed to keeping Leto. I know that a lot of people (myself included) find him insufferable, but he is a good actor. They just need to completely do away with the juggalo look.

I’ve never had an issue with Leto. I think he could be a fine Joker if given different material and more screen time.

Sometimes good actors aren't a good fit for a specific role. Like I get the script didn't do him any favors at all, but there were moments of Leto being terrible all by himself.

Ledger had a couple iffy lines to deliver too, but his performance is so indisputable I completely bought into the moment and never questioned him as a character. That's what separates the greats.

Joker is too prestigious to have a do-over, one that isn't even guaranteed to give you the results needed. The DCEU continuity is in flux right now, it's the perfect time to transition to a new regime.
 
Actually Lynda Carter wouldn't have been older than her costars. Carter was born in 1951, Keaton was born in 1951, and Reeve was born in 1952

Woah! I never realized that Lynda Carter was that young when she started playing Wonder Woman! In that case, a JL movie starring her, Reeve, Keaton, and Wesley-Shipp would have been totally awesome!

And having binge watched the Black Lightning series, I would also add to my earlier reimagining of the DCEU by making that series a part of the DCEU as well. And in regards to recasting The Atom in Legends in order for Brandon Routh to continue to play Superman, I would also recast Hank Henshaw/Martian Manhunter as well. Nothing against the actor who plays him/them on Supergirl, but if Hank Henshaw is going to become Cyborg Superman in The Reign Of The Supermen, then he should at least look a LITTLE bit like Brandon Routh.
 
Sometimes good actors aren't a good fit for a specific role. Like I get the script didn't do him any favors at all, but there were moments of Leto being terrible all by himself.

Ledger had a couple iffy lines to deliver too, but his performance is so indisputable I completely bought into the moment and never questioned him as a character. That's what separates the greats.

Joker is too prestigious to have a do-over, one that isn't even guaranteed to give you the results needed. The DCEU continuity is in flux right now, it's the perfect time to transition to a new regime.


With you on that 100%. I think Amy Adams is one of the best actresses working today. Same with JK Simmons. But I'm sorry, I don't think they should've been cast as Lois and Gordon...

Time for a recast for Joker though for sure. I'm not sure who it should go to. I still really like Ben Foster for Joker. He could do something truly insane with the role.
I really do hope this Joaquin Phoenix Joker movie happens though even if it's not connected to the DCEU.
 
With you on that 100%. I think Amy Adams is one of the best actresses working today. Same with JK Simmons. But I'm sorry, I don't think they should've been cast as Lois and Gordon...

With you 50% on that...
I like Simmons as Gordon, but Adams (as you say, fine actress) is wrong for Lois, for me.
 
I would have went with Mary Elizabeth Winstead as Lois Lane myself
 
Hell back before Affleck got the role of Bruce Wayne/Batman there was talk of Gyllenhaal getting the role of Bruce but that didn't happen and it is really moot now since Jake just joined Marvel to play Mysterio; however if DC had reached out to him years ago we would have gotten him as Batman but it doesn't make a whole world of difference now
 
This is my plan for a reboot of the DCEU. Imagine all work on current DCEU movies were halted, and a new cinematic universe begins starting in 2020:

Batman (2020):
I think Batman is the guy to start with. It's been ages since he's actually had a solo film and he is perhaps DC's most popular character. You start the universe off with this crime-ridden, hope-forsaken picture of the world, where an older Batman is still struggling to do some good, and that then sets things up for Superman to arrive and bring hope to the world. For the villain, I'd go with Hugo Strange, as a doctor who experiments on his patients at Arkham Asylum. The Asylum is the perfect place to establish that Batman is an established crime-fighter with many of his enemies already locked up. Specifically the Joker. Have the Joker in the background taunting Batman throughout. Establish the death of Jason Todd as an event in Batman's backstory.

Catwoman (2021):
Probably not a lot of people's first choice for a phase 1 DCEU movie, but she's one of DC's best known and most popular characters. With the current Justice League cast somewhat tarnished, you've got to go with a bold, new lineup. She also helps set up a potential Gothamverse: a cinematic universe within a cinematic universe, if you will, eventually featuring a large range of properties (Batman, Catwoman, Batwoman, Birds of Prey, Gotham City Sirens, Suicide Squad). For the film itself, I'm envisioning a hedonistic romp, wherein Catwoman pulls off a heist against The Penguin. A fun blockbuster on the surface, disguising Selena's trauma.

Superman (2021):
What Man of Steel got wrong, was that Superman was just as dark and brooding as the world around him. You can have a dark setting for a Superman film, but he's got to be the light in the darkness. The Superman films need to do what the Captain America films have done in the MCU, but on an even grander scale. In these trying times, a character who is truly kind, optimistic and selfless can be interesting, especially if you give him a bit of a sense of humour. For the villain, let's not beat around the bush - straight into a proper Lex Luthor.

Wonder Woman (2022):
Seems a shame to do away with the DCEU's one real hit, but there we are. It's easy enough to distinguish a reboot from Gadot's Wonder Woman by having it set in the modern day. Circe as the villain.

Batman Sequel (2022):
Just as The MCU followed Iron Man up promptly with its sequel, so too should the DCEU do the same for Batman. It establishes that this is a series of franchises, not one-and-dones to set up Justice League. Now that Superman has landed, the superpowered individuals of the universe have begun to come out of the woodwork. So I'd pit Batman against a more out-there foe, like Clayface. Catwoman would feature heavily, cashing in on some of that cross-over hype before Justice League.

Hawkwoman (2023): Captain Marvel is set to skip over the original male character in favour of a bit more female presence. Hawkwoman would do the same. Any writers here have a bit of a challenge streamlining the convoluted mythology of Hawkman and Hawkwoman into one. My take on it:

Shiera Sanders is an archaeologist excavating in Egypt. She stumbles upon Katar Hol's Mace and Wings, and the Claw of Horus, thinking they are Egyptian artefacts. In reality, they are alien weaponry and the Claw of Horus contains the "soul" (aka digital mind upload) of deceased Thanagarian police officer Katar Hol. When she touches the Claw, her mind merges with Katar and she essentially becomes his reincarnation, occasionally hearing his voice in her head guiding her. The villain would be Byth Rok, a fugitive from the Thanagarian police force who has stolen an experimental drug that gives him shapeshifting powers.

Martian Manhunter (2023):
The final solo movie before Justice League. We start the film with J'onn already living in hiding as detective John Jones on Earth. With Superman revealing himself to the world, J'onn eventually decides that is time to stop living in hiding. The main villain would be Despero, an alien genius bruiser with both super strength and psionic abilities. The backstory would tell us of the destruction of Martian civilisation, hinting at the villain for Justice League.

Justice League (2024):
After 4 years of build-up, Batman, Superman, Wonderwoman, Hawkwoman, Martian Manhunter and yes, Catwoman team up against Braniac. Braniac will be the villain behind the destruction of Krypton and the Martian Empire, and now his sights are set on Earth.

Catwoman may seem a strange choice for a member of the Justice League, so I feel like I should justify that: With Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg probably in need of a rest to differentiate the reboot from the first attempt, you have to go in a different direction. Catwoman is a popular character (I think we're past the damage the 2004 movie did) and her inclusion early on alongside Batman means you can start getting natural character crossovers in a lot sooner. I could see her being reluctantly roped into hero work, say if she comes across an alien artefact on a heist which kicks off the plot, and her skills of infiltration could make her useful even amongst characters like Superman and Manhunter. I'm picturing a very young Catwoman, who is already disillusioned and turned to crime. Her cynicism at such a young age would demonstrate the kind of world that this is, how much it needs Superman and the League to bring it hope.
 
Some fancastings for my above post:

John Krasinski as Batman: A few years ago it would probably have seemed unfathomable to tout The Office's hapless Jim Halpert as the next Batman. But Krasinski has been working out and taking on more serious roles lately, and his name has been bandied about amongst fans for superhero roles like Reed Richards on this very forum:

john-krasinski-58e44cc6-c175-440b-bdc7-61c8d9f2e352.jpg


Liam Hemsworth as Superman: I think Liam's got more to him than a side love interest in the Hunger Games. His role as Gale demonstrated great range in his increasingly limited screen time imo. And he's definitely one of the few actors out there who has the look.

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Dascha Polanco as Wonder Woman: Dascha is a phenomenally talented actor and I'd love to see her take on a leading blockbuster role like this. She's got the curvier physique of comic-book Wonder Woman as well.

images


Idris Elba as Martian Manhunter: It's almost a cliche at this point casting Idris for any major black role (J'onn is portrayed as a black man when disguised as a human). But the guy just has so much charm, gravitas and intensity. He's dabbled in superhero moves before, time to give him a leading role.

IdrisElba_5264.jpg


Karen Gillan as Hawkwoman: Similar to Elba, Gillan is someone who has played a supporting role in Superhero films before, and now imo deserves a lead role. She's definitely one of Hollywood's biggest up and comers.

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Amandla Stenberg as Catwoman: One of Hollywood's most promising up and comers, I think Stenberg has it in her to be a lead. I can just see her as a sassy and sarcastic, younger incarnation of Catwoman. A racebend for Catwoman may be controversial to some, and bring back bad memories of Halle Berry's disastrous turn as Catwoman in 2004. But the racebending was not to blame for that mess, and modern blockbusters need a little more diversity.

201606-sss-spotlight-amandla-stenberg-949x534-759x500.jpg
 
This is my plan for a reboot of the DCEU. Imagine all work on current DCEU movies were halted, and a new cinematic universe begins starting in 2020:

Batman (2020):
I think Batman is the guy to start with. It's been ages since he's actually had a solo film and he is perhaps DC's most popular character. You start the universe off with this crime-ridden, hope-forsaken picture of the world, where an older Batman is still struggling to do some good, and that then sets things up for Superman to arrive and bring hope to the world. For the villain, I'd go with Hugo Strange, as a doctor who experiments on his patients at Arkham Asylum. The Asylum is the perfect place to establish that Batman is an established crime-fighter with many of his enemies already locked up. Specifically the Joker. Have the Joker in the background taunting Batman throughout. Establish the death of Jason Todd as an event in Batman's backstory.

Catwoman (2021):
Probably not a lot of people's first choice for a phase 1 DCEU movie, but she's one of DC's best known and most popular characters. With the current Justice League cast somewhat tarnished, you've got to go with a bold, new lineup. She also helps set up a potential Gothamverse: a cinematic universe within a cinematic universe, if you will, eventually featuring a large range of properties (Batman, Catwoman, Batwoman, Birds of Prey, Gotham City Sirens, Suicide Squad). For the film itself, I'm envisioning a hedonistic romp, wherein Catwoman pulls off a heist against The Penguin. A fun blockbuster on the surface, disguising Selena's trauma.

Superman (2021):
What Man of Steel got wrong, was that Superman was just as dark and brooding as the world around him. You can have a dark setting for a Superman film, but he's got to be the light in the darkness. The Superman films need to do what the Captain America films have done in the MCU, but on an even grander scale. In these trying times, a character who is truly kind, optimistic and selfless can be interesting, especially if you give him a bit of a sense of humour. For the villain, let's not beat around the bush - straight into a proper Lex Luthor.

Wonder Woman (2022):
Seems a shame to do away with the DCEU's one real hit, but there we are. It's easy enough to distinguish a reboot from Gadot's Wonder Woman by having it set in the modern day. Circe as the villain.

Batman Sequel (2022):
Just as The MCU followed Iron Man up promptly with its sequel, so too should the DCEU do the same for Batman. It establishes that this is a series of franchises, not one-and-dones to set up Justice League. Now that Superman has landed, the superpowered individuals of the universe have begun to come out of the woodwork. So I'd pit Batman against a more out-there foe, like Clayface. Catwoman would feature heavily, cashing in on some of that cross-over hype before Justice League.

Hawkwoman (2023): Captain Marvel is set to skip over the original male character in favour of a bit more female presence. Hawkwoman would do the same. Any writers here have a bit of a challenge streamlining the convoluted mythology of Hawkman and Hawkwoman into one. My take on it:

Shiera Sanders is an archaeologist excavating in Egypt. She stumbles upon Katar Hol's Mace and Wings, and the Claw of Horus, thinking they are Egyptian artefacts. In reality, they are alien weaponry and the Claw of Horus contains the "soul" (aka digital mind upload) of deceased Thanagarian police officer Katar Hol. When she touches the Claw, her mind merges with Katar and she essentially becomes his reincarnation, occasionally hearing his voice in her head guiding her. The villain would be Byth Rok, a fugitive from the Thanagarian police force who has stolen an experimental drug that gives him shapeshifting powers.

Martian Manhunter (2023):
The final solo movie before Justice League. We start the film with J'onn already living in hiding as detective John Jones on Earth. With Superman revealing himself to the world, J'onn eventually decides that is time to stop living in hiding. The main villain would be Despero, an alien genius bruiser with both super strength and psionic abilities. The backstory would tell us of the destruction of Martian civilisation, hinting at the villain for Justice League.

Justice League (2024):
After 4 years of build-up, Batman, Superman, Wonderwoman, Hawkwoman, Martian Manhunter and yes, Catwoman team up against Braniac. Braniac will be the villain behind the destruction of Krypton and the Martian Empire, and now his sights are set on Earth.

Catwoman may seem a strange choice for a member of the Justice League, so I feel like I should justify that: With Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg probably in need of a rest to differentiate the reboot from the first attempt, you have to go in a different direction. Catwoman is a popular character (I think we're past the damage the 2004 movie did) and her inclusion early on alongside Batman means you can start getting natural character crossovers in a lot sooner. I could see her being reluctantly roped into hero work, say if she comes across an alien artefact on a heist which kicks off the plot, and her skills of infiltration could make her useful even amongst characters like Superman and Manhunter. I'm picturing a very young Catwoman, who is already disillusioned and turned to crime. Her cynicism at such a young age would demonstrate the kind of world that this is, how much it needs Superman and the League to bring it hope.

Some interesting ideas there, nicely laid out :up:

Just a few points;

You'd go again with an older Batman? I liked the idea when it was announced for BvS but as time's gone on I've come to think it would have been better for a standalone/unconnected movie (The Dark Knight Returns, Batman Beyond, etc). Having an older Batman in a shared DCEU has knock-on effects, e.g. relative ages of other characters (such as Catwoman).

Have to say I'm pretty jaded on Luthor as a Superman villain. I'd like to see Superman movies that introduced a new (as far as GA's were concerned) threat.

Hawkwoman movie - my God, yes! I seriously fell in love with her in JL/JLU, to the point where she might just be my favourite DC female :up:
 
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