Do You Have Faith In James Gunn’s New DCU?

[HydraSith12]

The Flash Flop is not Bad for me since the Old DCEU Universe is Not Canon to the DC Gunnverse now if Superman Legacy and Brave and the Bold Flops i will be worried

 

[BobJM]

I'm gonna wait and see some casting decisions first. That will tell alot.
And the first reveal of the suit.

Get those two right and it's on.
If it's mixed reactions then uh oh.

Obviously, you aren't gonna please everyone, some would complain no matter what, but if the majority have positive reactions, we may get something truly special.

Agreed. For me, everything Reeves was teasing with The Batman only furthered my interest & excitement. Casting, costume reveal, interview snippets. There was a clear/concise gameplan from the outset--this is outside of continuity, it's its own thing, etc.

Gunn's comments & constant engagement online gives me more pause than optimism. I feel like the messaging is constantly getting muddled and I can't tell when he has his creative hat on or CEO hat on.

Nevertheless, I'm still excited for Legacy, but we'll see how things pan out with that one as production ramps up.

 

[TheVileOne]

As an artist and creator I have faith in Gunn. I just think he's in over his head here. He's been set up to fail here through no fault of his own.

Like I think we're seeing the fallout of years of bad decisionmaking at work here.

 

[TheVileOne]

As I’ve said elsewhere…Gunn has never run anything. Is he going to agree to take angry calls from Zaslav at 6am every morning? Is he going to agree to sit in a room for hours reviewing another director’s dailies? How will he handle disagreements with the talent who see him more as a peer than a boss? Are quality director’s going to agree to work with an “executive” with zero experience in pushing multiple giant tent poles through a meat grinder of a system? I have my doubts.

Mike De Luca, who has great taste, is a hardcore comics fan and has excellent relationships with talent would’ve been a better choice, imo.

According to the trades, Zaslav "wanted his Feige."

 

[Mani-Man]

I have to ask some of you, are you aware its James Gunn AND Peter Safran running this...not just Gunn?
I feel like people ignore that little fact quite a bit.
It is not like Gunn is alone in this.

 

[emc5466]

Peter Safran was lead producer on Shazam 2, which was a disaster, and Aquaman 2, which is also reportedly a disaster. Not sure what he brings to the table.

 

[TheVileOne]

I have to ask some of you, are you aware its James Gunn AND Peter Safran running this...not just Gunn?
I feel like people ignore that little fact quite a bit.
It is not like Gunn is alone in this.

Geoff Johns wasn't alone when he was head of DC Films. Jon Berg was also in charge.

 

[Boom]

I have faith in Gunn. But for circumstances beyond his control I am not confident that he'll get to see this thing through.

WBD is a total ****show and it's only matter of time before it's sold again.

 

[Mani-Man]

Peter Safran was lead producer on Shazam 2, which was a disaster, and Aquaman 2, which is also reportedly a disaster. Not sure what he brings to the table.

He also was producer on Aquaman, Shazam, The Conjuring.

 

[Lily Adler]

I have faith in Gunn. But for circumstances beyond his control I am not confident that he'll get to see this thing through.

WBD is a total ****show and it's only matter of time before it's sold again.

Zaslav has upgraded to vulture capitalist.

 

[kguillou]

I think Gunn is putting the cart before the horse just like the previous regimes were doing. Having a ten movie plan already when you dont even know if movie one is going to work is kind of arrogant and the reason we are where we are now.

If Gunn had simply been like “we’re working on three movies: Superman: Legacy; Batman Brave and the Bold and Wonder Woman Rebirth and those three movies will drive DC films going forward,” I think that would have been the safe, level headed approach to take. Focus on the trinity, spend your budget on A list screenwriters, directors and casting and set yourself up for success. I am the eternal optimist here but i dont think Gunn is going to be DC’s savior and DC is going to continue being the red headed stepchild next to Marvel well into this decade.

 

[Lily Adler]

I think Gunn is putting the cart before the horse just like the previous regimes were doing. Having a ten movie plan already when you dont even know if movie one is going to work is kind of arrogant and the reason we are where we are now.

If Gunn had simply been like “we’re working on three movies: Superman: Legacy; Batman Brave and the Bold and Wonder Woman Rebirth and those three movies will drive DC films going forward,” I think that would have been the safe, level headed approach to take. Focus on the trinity, spend your budget on A list screenwriters, directors and casting and set yourself up for success. I am the eternal optimist here but i dont think Gunn is going to be DC’s savior and DC is going to continue being the red headed stepchild next to Marvel well into this decade.

Someone has pointed out to me that Gunn is following a similar strategy to what Snyder did with the DCEU. Start with a Superman film (Man of Steel, Legacy), Batman film (Batman v Superman, Brave and the Bold), and offshoot villain team (Suicide Squad, The Authority).

 

[kguillou]

Its the exact same strategy. At its core, the DCEU’s biggest fallacy was crafting their movies around niche audiences and not general mass audiences. Am I PERSONALLY excited for a Mangold Swamp Thing movie and a Supergirl movie? Yes, definitely. Are those the right ones to focus on NOW? Along with The Authority of all things? Ehhhhhh i really dont think so.

This is what the DCEU did, they greenlit these eclectic, offbeat movies like both Suicide Squad movies and Birds of Prey and Shazam and Black Adam and…this Flash(point) movie. And audiences rejected them because they didnt lay the groundwork for people to care about these characters. You gotta get the big names right first and then you can start introducing B and C list characters later once your brand and world building is established and the GA is onboard. This is what Marvel did.

The Avengers ALLOWED Gunn to introduce the Guardians and the GA gave it the benefit of doubt because it was linked to that universe they’re invested in .Without the The Avengers, Guardians would have flopped no matter how good a movie it was.

 

[samsnee]

Someone has pointed out to me that Gunn is following a similar strategy to what Snyder did with the DCEU. Start with a Superman film (Man of Steel, Legacy), Batman film (Batman v Superman, Brave and the Bold), and offshoot villain team (Suicide Squad, The Authority).

100%. They are swinging for the fences when they should be trying to just get on base

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Someone has pointed out to me that Gunn is following a similar strategy to what Snyder did with the DCEU. Start with a Superman film (Man of Steel, Legacy), Batman film (Batman v Superman, Brave and the Bold), and offshoot villain team (Suicide Squad, The Authority).

Its the exact same strategy.

100%. They are swinging for the fences when they should be trying to just get on base

I'm sure, of course, that Gunn could give a very detailed explanation as to why it's absolutely nothing like that! Puts me in mind of Nigel patiently explaining 'But this goes up to eleven! This is louder!' in Spinal Tap

 

[Peyton Westlake]

I think the inclusion of Swamp Thing was a HUGE benefit to the newer DCU.
It signals to me they are willing to use characters beside the big 3 & show the other pockets of DC.
Horror in the comics universes of Marvel & Dc was never fully explored.
You can say Marvel beat them to the punch delving into the 'horror realm' with Werewolf by Night & Dr. Strange 2, but I think for Marvel those may have been just an experiment & not a major goal.
Swamp Thing opens up the possibility for real horror in DC & is the perfect character to use to introduce it to be a mainstay as much as Batman & Superman is.
Neither Marvel nor DC has made horror a main focus in their universes & put it in the spotlight.
If DC uses the gothic setting of Swap Thing & does it right, horror fans & comic fans together can be introduced into something new & dare I say...different?

This is one point I stated in another post which does have some positive vibes to it.

 

[Peyton Westlake]

I am fairly confident but more or less excited with the new direction for DC.
Mostly because of what I have read about Gunn & Safran are trying to do.
I know it's not much to go by but, at least they are public with an overall plan.
Gunn's work on the Peacemaker series was good, it illustrates his talent well.
It doesn't fit the character of Superman, but it does show he can write for an individual DC character & make it relevant.
I think based on that we should give him & Peter the benefit of the doubt.
Only time will tell, but maybe this new DCU will be one that surpasses them all.

As well as this 2nd point.

 

[samsnee]

I think Zaslav is more of an issue. He reminds me of a Perlmutter or Roth who doesn’t get what makes comics special and only sees the bottom line

 

[The Guard]

Its the exact same strategy. At its core, the DCEU’s biggest fallacy was crafting their movies around niche audiences and not general mass audiences. Am I PERSONALLY excited for a Mangold Swamp Thing movie and a Supergirl movie? Yes, definitely. Are those the right ones to focus on NOW? Along with The Authority of all things? Ehhhhhh i really dont think so.

This is what the DCEU did, they greenlit these eclectic, offbeat movies like both Suicide Squad movies and Birds of Prey and Shazam and Black Adam and…this Flash(point) movie. And audiences rejected them because they didnt lay the groundwork for people to care about these characters.

That's what DC did when they ran out of steam on the big names. But they started with the big names, Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, and went right into Justice League.

The other heroes were the back end of the franchise, and results have been mixed. SUICIDE SQUAD was a box office success and a critical failure and then its sequel was the opposite. BIRDS OF PREY was a critical success and a box office failure. Audiences liked SHAZAM and so did critics. Audiences didn't like SHAZAM 2 and BLACK ADAM and neither did critics. THE FLASH was rejected by audiences, but not critics, at least it's still "fresh" over at RT.

It's been weird. Notably, the films did tend to be less well received when there's been behind the scenes "drama" and transitions at WB.

You gotta get the big names right first and then you can start introducing B and C list characters later once your brand and world building is established and the GA is onboard. This is what Marvel did.

I would agree with this, but that's not really what Marvel did at all. They didn't really HAVE the A characters, like Spider-Man, the X-Men,etc. They made characters that to the general public were B and C characters into household names and have continued to do so. Captain America, Iron Man and Thor were not really "big names" at the time.

That's probably part of the reason Gunn was tapped for the DCEU. He's seen how that's done and done it successfully.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

There was nothing wrong with doing a Superman reboot, a Batman/Superman crossover and a Suicide Squad movie.

The problem was that all three of those movies SUCKED and Snyder was the wrong guy. The dude couldn't make a crowd pleaser to save his life and Ayer completely fumbled SS.

There was definitely an audience and they opened big and made a lot of money but they squandered their potential with badly made films.

I'm sick of people blaming the brand and these characters when the blame should placed directly on Snyder.

 

[samsnee]

Exactly. Snyder is great with visuals but his movies are depressing and drag. You’re not going to get a family friendly box office where Superman snaps a guy’s neck or is just depressed for 2 hours

 

[kguillou]

There was nothing wrong with doing a Superman reboot, a Batman/Superman crossover and a Suicide Squad movie.

The problem was that all three of those movies SUCKED and Snyder was the wrong guy. The dude couldn't make a crowd pleaser to save his life and Ayer completely fumbled SS.

There was definitely an audience and they opened big and made a lot of money but they squandered their potential with badly made films.

I'm sick of people blaming the brand and these characters when the blame should placed directly on Snyder.

Yeah but how far can you blame Snyder though and not the other filmmakers involved? Snyder hasnt had any say in this universe since 2016 and none of the filmmakers: Jenkins, Sandberg, Cathy Yan, Wan, Dwayne freaking Johnson, Muschietti and even James Gunn himself have been able to make movies to catch the audience's’ attention. Are all those subsequent films Snyder’s fault too? Are we saying thag theres nothing any of those filmmakers could have done to make their own films more accessible and liked to the GA?

 

[Mani-Man]

Yeah but how far can you blame Snyder though and not the other filmmakers involved? Snyder hasnt had any say in this universe since 2016 and none of the filmmakers: Jenkins, Sandberg, Cathy Yan, Wan, Dwayne freaking Johnson, Muschietti and even James Gunn himself have been able to make movies to catch the audience's’ attention. Are all those subsequent films Snyder’s fault too? Are we saying thag theres nothing any of those filmmakers could have done to make their own films more accessible and liked to the GA?

I mean Jenkins made a super successfull WW movie, Wan made a 1 billion dollar aquaman.
Gunn made a critical acclaimed Suicide Squad movie that came out to a unfortunate time.
The rest are imo at least fine movies ruined because they had to be around a mess of a universe.

I dont really blame Snyder on this, more WB suits that A.Hired him and B. Interfered and cut up, messed around with the universe they first had Snyder create but then didnt like.

It all comes back to them Fumbling from the very start and panicking left and right instead of counting their losses way earlier and moving on completely.

They all had to do stuff that fit into this shared universe mindset WB didnt wanted to let go.
Letting them go all out way earlier, ignoring completely any Shared universe stuff, would imo have helped.
By the time a Black Adam came around, things were already too broken to get anything out of it for the GA.

 

[kguillou]

I think its more complicated than that though. 2019 was a very good year for DC and saw the brand gaining forward momentum: Billion dollar Aquaman, a well liked shazam movie with respectable box office and billion dollar Joker movie. THEN in 2020 we had DC Fandome which showcased a tone of exciting projects and got people hyped for DC. What happened after that? I dont think that can be blamed on Snyder. I think these filmmakers all simply fumbled the execution on their own movies.

 

[FunkMiller]

Yeah but how far can you blame Snyder though and not the other filmmakers involved? Snyder hasnt had any say in this universe since 2016 and none of the filmmakers: Jenkins, Sandberg, Cathy Yan, Wan, Dwayne freaking Johnson, Muschietti and even James Gunn himself have been able to make movies to catch the audience's’ attention. Are all those subsequent films Snyder’s fault too? Are we saying thag theres nothing any of those filmmakers could have done to make their own films more accessible and liked to the GA?

It's Snyder's fault that the DCEU started with such a bad foundation... and it's everyone else's fault that they continued to build from that foundation.