‘X-Men: DOFP’ director Bryan Singer fans the flames of Marvel Vs Fox battle

[TeeKay]

TeeKay you nailed it, though I don't think Singer has gone out of his way to please the fans.

Nokio, X3s treatment was created/drafted by Matthew Vaughn actually, not Singer.

Very valid points. I should be where you're at now and just give up. It's been 14 years and we aren't going to get the characters handled properly ever as long as FOX has the rites. It's just makes my blood boil when alterations are made to the characters for no logical reason what so ever then for them to put their own spin on the XMen. Bishop was so gutted and just misused. His powers work exactly like Shaw's in FC, while Shaw just gets stronger in the comics. I assume they felt he would be to close to Shaw so they altered him to some stereotypical black guy toting a gun that has to get power from Sunspot to fire it, WTF?? I do not like SINGER period. He is poison to the Xmen and unfortunately he's not going anywhere cause he's had success that sadly came from the general audience.

X1 and 2 were decent enough. X3 was mediocre and I'm not convinced at all that Singer would have done anything differently cause the script and outline was already established when Ratner came out board. People blamed him for the awfulness but I never did. He may have made some alterations but he was brought in to shoot the movie. The way Phoenix was handled just screamed Fox and Singer. FC and DOFP were good films but again not good xmen films. I'll credit their decentness to Vaughan as in he had a hand in the scripts for both films. Kinberg is garbage too.

Let me stop ranting and get back to your post. I agree with you 100 percent.
Oh I'm not so sure about Apocalypse. Him building the Pyramids was a bit much. I've never know him in he comics to display TK powers but his abilities is supposed to be whatever power he wants, I've just never seen him do much but grow in size and shape change and fire energy blasts in the comics. I'm sure in the end Wolverine will be the one to take him down. Still believe he's just being used because FOX wanted a really big bad after Thanos was introduced in Avengers. If he wasn't I doubt Singer and FOX would used him, we'll still have Magneto as the villian no doubt.

I was dissapointed with the usage of Bishop, Sunspot and Warpath in DOFP. Blink was cool though but the rest were meh. I'm really cautous when it comes to Apocalypse, he's going to be watered down just like the rest of the X-Men. That post credits scene, I did like it though. Made me pumped for Apocalypse. I can only imagine what Whedon could do with the X-Men. In one tracking shot in the Avengers, he shot the team dynamic well more than all the X-men films combined. Everyone working together and fighting as a TEAM no relying. The X-Men films have left a lot to be desired, really.

At this point man, it's just take it or leave it, I just took it. I've complained, ranted and what not and it's just beating a dead horse at this point. Just accept things as they are and not what we want them to be. I thought X-2 was a great film in its own right but just a poor X-Men adaptation imo.

 

[Nokio]

I can only imagine what Whedon could do with the X-Men. In one tracking shot in the Avengers, he shot the team dynamic well more than all the X-men films combined. Everyone working together and fighting as a TEAM no relying

The xmen are nothing if not about teamwork. That's always been their strongest asset. It's why they could probably best The JLA. Probably but not 100 percent but they can take Superman down solo in my opinion. Fox and Singer never ever got this and they never will.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Avengers was a popcorn flick, at least the Xmen films have had plots for the most part

 

[psylockolussus]

There's only one way to fix the X-Men problem.

Spoiler

Seriously though, if look at the X-Men films as just superhero films, they're really great, especially X-2, FC and DOFP. However, when you look at them as 'X-Men' films, you'll lose it. I said it in my DOFP review, what really bothers me Bryan Singer's seemingly boundless ability to misinterpret the true spirit of the X-Men comics. He still misunderstands some of these characters. But unlike other directors from the past who have butchered comic book adaptations, Singer's interpretation of the characters makes you question the changes that were made especially if you're a hardcore X-Men fan. Because to me, at times it felt that Singer was trying to hard too appease the fanboys and detractors who have not been pleased with how he has handled the X-Men franchise and completely missing the point of what truly makes the X-Men who they are.

I think a lot of people don't understand why some people are very critical of the X-Men films from a fan's pesperctive. If you go read Uncanny X-Men, Ashtonishing X-Men etc and come back and watch the films, you'd want Singer fired and never want him to touch any other CBM ever. That being said, when it comes to story telling, he's great and that;'s what so frustrating about it. maybe if he actually paid a lot more attention to the source material, he wouldn't be saying statements like these. I basically let go, after 14 years of complaining and with little to know change, I just accepted the way these films are. If I want my X-Men, I still have my comic books. I'm excited for Apocalypse though.

And yet the latest film that he directed is your top 4 comic-book film of all time.

Sure there's a lot of things that can still be done in a X-Men movie, but if its not broken, why fire the director that just directed your top 4 CBM of all time.

 

[Nokio]

Avengers was a popcorn flick, at least the Xmen films have had plots for the most part

The Xmen films had plots? You mean the Mutant making machine in X1? The mutant Cure in X3, the Dark Cerebro in X2? In Avengers Loki plots to steal the Space Gem to deliver it to Thanos in exchange for use of his Alien army for the earth. i don't know how any plot is better then the next. At least the Avengers was done very well.

 

[metaphysician]

The Xmen films had plots? You mean the Mutant making machine in X1? The mutant Cure in X3, the Dark Cerebro in X2? In Avengers Loki plots to steal the Space Gem to deliver it to Thanos in exchange for use of his Alien army for the earth. i don't know how any plot is better then the next. At least the Avengers was done very well.

Don't bother. Look at the name: by "plot" what he means is "The story is morose and about Serious Issues. . . please, respect me! I'm not a child anymore!" The CS Lewis quote is in full effect.

 

[Gr0oT]

The last few X films have had the benefits of history to fill out their plots. I've liked them but for the most part they are appropriations of historical happenings with a comic book plot intertwined.

The MCU movies have had their McGuffins and can be allegorical. In my interpretation of TWS there were definite hints of Huxley's Brave New World echoed.

They are both good in their own rights.

I'll have to remember BvS comment about the Avengers as a popcorn flick when his namesake comes out, I'm sure it'll be a real arthouse masterpiece.

 

[Nokio]

Don't bother. Look at the name: by "plot" what he means is "The story is morose and about Serious Issues. . . please, respect me! I'm not a child anymore!" The CS Lewis quote is in full effect.

So The Avengers had a crappy plot is what you seem to be saying. The Avengers was indeed a big budget tentpole. It was flashy and action packed and most importantly it was fun. It had humor and was serious. I'm not about to knock the Xmen plots cause they were decent but lacked any impact what so ever. Dark Phoenix should've been good but it was terrible. There was never any sense of serious racisl hatred against mutant, it was only said. I'm sorry but FOX did a terrible job on all the films.


X1 just didn't suck more then it being a good movie.

X2 was very decent but still felt wrong. Their was no magic no sense of awe in it at all.

X3 was just plain weak.

First Class and DOFP were the best in the franchise and they were entertaining enough films but they weren't good Xmen films. They still lacked any awe or wonder.

None of the Xmen films were visually impressive. Yes they had good fx that was well done but is was cold. At least with Avengers, Cap 1 & 2, Thor and GOTG their was a since of wonder at times and fun and awe. I can imagine what a 12 year old kid felt like seeing GOTG. I myself felt that when I was a kid and seeing classic movies like The Matrix or Ghostbusters or Star Wars for the first time. Sorry dude but the Xmen had none of that magic.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Spoiler

I used to see this all the time at CBM. Singer certainly shut those lot up with X-Men Days of Future Past

The Xmen films had plots? You mean the Mutant making machine in X1? The mutant Cure in X3, the Dark Cerebro in X2? In Avengers Loki plots to steal the Space Gem to deliver it to Thanos in exchange for use of his Alien army for the earth. i don't know how any plot is better then the next. At least the Avengers was done very well.

You mean to imply that the X-Men plots weren't?

 

[Nokio]

I used to see this all the time at CBM. Singer certainly shut those lot up with X-Men Days of Future Past



You mean to imply that the X-Men plots weren't?

All I'm saying these type of films aren't meant to be over thought. They are a mix of action, scifi and fantasy. Yes I'd like them written well and done properly but i'm not going in expecting nor am I looking for a Oscar contender.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I used to see this all the time at CBM. Singer certainly shut those lot up with X-Men Days of Future Past

I'm surprised X-Men: The Last Stand and X-Men Origins: Wolverine didn't shut them up.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

I'm surprised X-Men: The Last Stand and X-Men Origins: Wolverine didn't shut them up.

True, the only bad ones were ones Singer didn't have some involvement with.

 

[Nokio]

True, the only bad ones were ones Singer didn't have some involvement with.

Singer had involvement with X3. He left the outline for the story that his writing team did. The script and production was all set to go and Ratner was brought in to shoot the film because Fox didn't want to wait for Singer to finish Superman returns. Singer himself said that he would love to continue on with the Xmen but FOX wanted to move ahead without him but he left the outline and direction for the film and FOX used it. That's why others and myself included wasn't so sure that X3 wouldn't have been any different if Singer had directed it. He already said that Dark Phoenix was to over the top from the comics and their would have to be limits and that the storyline would be more toned down and more realistic for the movie. Which it was and it sucked and it was just completely the wrong direction. Dan Harris, who also left with him and worked on Superman Returns is also a culprit in the mess of the Xfilms. X3 had very much the same tone and feel of both X 1 & 2, Singer just escaped blame because Ratner directed it but Singer's hands were very much all over the treatment. Jugernaught's in the film and he and Charles don't know each other? Very much Singer and crew.

 

[BMM]

Every single bit of information in your post is wrong. You are literally making things up. In what world do you think a director gets booted off a studio lot, in one of the most notorious falling outs of the last decade, and then just leaves behind his treatment for said studio to use? Singer escaped blame for the treatment because it wasn't his. It is well documented that the treatment for The Last Stand is based on the notorious six day script written by Kinberg, Penn, and Vaughn months after Singer left. It leaked online and was bashed here, and on every comic book movie related site on the internet, and none of it sounded anything like what has ever been revealed about Singer's treatment for X-Men 3. The only common thread the two share is the obvious one left over from X2, the Dark Phoenix Saga, and Fox didn't even want to pursue that after Singer left. The studio had to be convinced by Kinberg and Penn to do it, because it only wanted to pursue the Cure storyline.

 

[Nokio]

Every single bit of information in your post is wrong. You are literally making things up. In what world do you think a director gets booted off a studio lot, in one of the most notorious falling outs of the last decade, and then just leaves behind his treatment for said studio to use? Singer escaped blame for the treatment because it wasn't his. It is well documented that the treatment for The Last Stand is based on the notorious six day script written by Kinberg, Penn, and Vaughn months after Singer left. It leaked online and was bashed here, and on every comic book movie related site on the internet, and none of it sounded anything like what has ever been revealed about Singer's treatment for X-Men 3. The only common thread the two share is the obvious one left over from X2, the Dark Phoenix Saga, and Fox didn't even want to pursue that after Singer left. The studio had to be convinced by Kinberg and Penn to do it, because it only wanted to pursue the Cure storyline.

I'm not making anything up. No studio in their right mind is just gonna go full steam ahead on a script done in less then a week. With over 150 million online? On an untested and unproven script with out rewrites and other production issues or problems with it? What world do you live in? Clearly you know nothing about the corporate side of things. You can't be that naive to believe a major corporation that has to answer to share holders is gonna take some risk like that? That's like saying an engineer at GM designs a new car in week and GM takes it straight into production based on his designs alone, no prototype built, nothing, just go straight into production. OH LOOK FOX BRASS IT'S ME SIMON KINBERG, HERE'S MY SCRIPT. I DID IT FROM THE GROUND UP IN 6 DAYS AND I HAD SOME INPUT FROM OTHERS, SEE WE DIDN'T NEED SINGER
I HAVE A NEW ONE, HERE START SHOOTING!!! PLEASE!

Singer himself said that he had left an outline and the treatment for x3 and that he wanted to do X3 and would start on it after Superman but FOX didn't want to wait. I read that here cause it was posted from a quote from an interview he did. I don't post nonsense and just make stuff up. I'm not Fox news. Now could it be a lie? I don't know but i know what I read. Was changes made to what Singer and his crew left behind? More then likely or maybe not. No one knows for 100 percent because were not told everything but like I said X3 was very much in tone with the previous films and I'm not convinced Singer would not have done X3 any differently. If you think he was going to do a kick as adaption of the Dark phoenix saga then you're are mistaken. The man had said that it was unrealistic and needed to be toned down and more realistic. His words not mine. Based on all the changes for reasons unknown that have gone on in the Xfilms I see no example of this man's faithfulness to the history of the characters. I can list changes that make you go WTF! Why did they do that! That went on in all the Xfilms for no reason what so ever. things that makes no sense and serves no purpose to adapt the story to film.

After that debacle that was Superman Returns I don't know where you see that Singer is so good, He couldn't even get the one of the easiest characters in comics right. It's Superman for christ sake's. Supes in pretty cut and dry not a whole lot of complexity there.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Movies quite often go forward with a script still being written. Transformers 2 went forward without a script when writers literally could not write because they were on strike. So I think you're exaggerating with the idea that they wouldn't go forward with a fully finished script that had been written in a week.

 

[Mace Dolex]

Avengers was a popcorn flick, at least the Xmen films have had plots for the most part

Finally some reasoning, yeah I'm not an Avengers fan but I did enjoy the movie and you're right it was mostly a popcorn flick that only time will tell if it will be as revered as Donner's Superman and Nolan's Batman.

 

[TeeKay]

Avengers was a popcorn flick, at least the Xmen films have had plots for the most part

That's a bad thing because...? It had a plot, just because you don't like it doesn't mean there wasn't one.

And yet the latest film that he directed is your top 4 comic-book film of all time.

Sure there's a lot of things that can still be done in a X-Men movie, but if its not broken, why fire the director that just directed your top 4 CBM of all time.

I have a love/hate relationship with Singer. I said it in my original post, the dude is a great story teller and can direct the hell out of actors. However when it comes to paying respect to source material? He doesn't care. That's where my disdain towards Singer comes from. It's really frustrating really. DOFP is a great film in it's own right, so was FC and X-2. To simply discredit them and not call them for what they're truly are because they didn't stay true or pay respect to the source material is ridiculous and pathetic. We live in a world where GOTG and Avengers happened, Singer's excuses for no costumes and adapting characters is now invalid.

I'm not making anything up. No studio in their right mind is just gonna go full steam ahead on a script done in less then a week. With over 150 million online? On an untested and unproven script with out rewrites and other production issues or problems with it? What world do you live in? Clearly you know nothing about the corporate side of things. You can't be that naive to believe a major corporation that has to answer to share holders is gonna take some risk like that? That's like saying an engineer at GM designs a new car in week and GM takes it straight into production based on his designs alone, no prototype built, nothing, just go straight into production. OH LOOK FOX BRASS IT'S ME SIMON KINBERG, HERE'S MY SCRIPT. I DID IT FROM THE GROUND UP IN 6 DAYS AND I HAD SOME INPUT FROM OTHERS, SEE WE DIDN'T NEED SINGER
I HAVE A NEW ONE, HERE START SHOOTING!!! PLEASE!

To be fair as others pointed out, the first Iron Man and TF2 went ahead with the scripts still being written. However, I'm not sure if those scripts were just written in a week or they were half way through finishing them. You have a point though, look at the results of both TF2 and X-3. Iron Man was an exception because most of the actors were improvising as they went along and it work. It's an anomally at best.

Singer himself said that he had left an outline and the treatment for x3 and that he wanted to do X3 and would start on it after Superman but FOX didn't want to wait. I read that here cause it was posted from a quote from an interview he did. I don't post nonsense and just make stuff up. I'm not Fox news. Now could it be a lie? I don't know but i know what I read. Was changes made to what Singer and his crew left behind? More then likely or maybe not. No one knows for 100 percent because were not told everything but like I said X3 was very much in tone with the previous films and I'm not convinced Singer would not have done X3 any differently. If you think he was going to do a kick as adaption of the Dark phoenix saga then you're are mistaken. The man had said that it was unrealistic and needed to be toned down and more realistic. His words not mine. Based on all the changes for reasons unknown that have gone on in the Xfilms I see no example of this man's faithfulness to the history of the characters. I can list changes that make you go WTF! Why did they do that! That went on in all the Xfilms for no reason what so ever. things that makes no sense and serves no purpose to adapt the story to film.

Wait. What? You can't be serious. I refuse to believe that ugh

Can you give me a link? I need to read this for myself. Not that I don't believe you but Singer can't be stupid enough to come out and say something like that. Fans would have been in uproar, the Phoenix saga is one of the best X-Men and comic book storyline out there. It makes me wonder how he's going to adapt Apocalypse. Even though I loved DOFP, some of the stuff in there didn't make sense but it was a time travel film so I let those slide.

After that debacle that was Superman Returns I don't know where you see that Singer is so good, He couldn't even get the one of the easiest characters in comics right. It's Superman for christ sake's. Supes in pretty cut and dry not a whole lot of complexity there.

I didn't think Superman Returns was that bad. How he screwed that up, I have no idea. I just don't think the film is as bad as some people make it out to be. It definately has some redeeming qualities imo.

 

[Mike Murdock]

My suspicions are his take on DOFP would have been comparable to his take on Dark Phoenix as far as tone and level of realism. At least, were he given free reign.

It's all academic, though.

 

[Nokio]

That's a bad thing because...? It had a plot, just because you don't like it doesn't mean there wasn't one.




I have a love/hate relationship with Singer. I said it in my original post, the dude is a great story teller and can direct the hell out of actors. However when it comes to paying respect to source material? He doesn't care. That's where my disdain towards Singer comes from. It's really frustrating really. DOFP is a great film in it's own right, so was FC and X-2. To simply discredit them and not call them for what they're truly are because they didn't stay true or pay respect to the source material is ridiculous and pathetic. We live in a world where GOTG and Avengers happened, Singer's excuses for no costumes and adapting characters is now invalid.



To be fair as others pointed out, the first Iron Man and TF2 went ahead with the scripts still being written. However, I'm not sure if those scripts were just written in a week or they were half way through finishing them. You have a point though, look at the results of both TF2 and X-3. Iron Man was an exception because most of the actors were improvising as they went along and it work. It's an anomally at best.



Wait. What? You can't be serious. I refuse to believe that ugh

Can you give me a link? I need to read this for myself. Not that I don't believe you but Singer can't be stupid enough to come out and say something like that. Fans would have been in uproar, the Phoenix saga is one of the best X-Men and comic book storyline out there. It makes me wonder how he's going to adapt Apocalypse. Even though I loved DOFP, some of the stuff in there didn't make sense but it was a time travel film so I let those slide.



I didn't think Superman Returns was that bad. How he screwed that up, I have no idea. I just don't think the film is as bad as some people make it out to be. It definately has some redeeming qualities imo.

Well i've been coming to this site for years and I can't post a link because it was so long ago. I mean X3?? That's going back like what 7 or 8 years, but yes another poster had posted it when the whole mess went down when Singer left for Superman. He said that he love the Xmen but how Superman was a great opportunity and that He would love to do X3 if Fox would've pushed it back. He said he had good relationship with fox and he didn't just walk out and he left a outline and treatment for the film. His words not mine and I'm sure their has to be someone here who remembers that.

Now regarding his Dark Phoenix comments he said that before the situation with FOX. It was shortly after the success of X2 and he was asked will the Dark phoenix be next considering how things was left with Jean in X2. He said that the phoenix would be involved in the next Xmen but obvious it'll have to be toned down for the movie and more realistic. No one was in an uproar because people was curious about how he's going to pull it off and some even agreed that it had to be altered, including me because the Shiar and the M"Kraan Crystal and the intergalactic element wasn't going to be introduced in the Xmen movie world, something Singer also said. I agreed with that, cause I personally felt it may have been too much and hard to pull off. I didn't like it but it's something I could've accepted as long as they got Phoenix right, which they didn't.

I've been a member easily around 8 years and always came to this site just to read a few years before i even joined. I'm sorry if you don't believe it but he said it. It was a quote that someone posted here and it came from an interview he was giving to magazine. I'm not that petty to lie and make things up, it's the truth.

I remember how everyone was going on how Superman was going to be awesome and so forth when Singer was taking it on. I however had no faith in Singer cause his X1 and X2 were just decent, they never blew me away. They just didn't suck. I stand by my comments that the X films are terrible adaptions despite FC and DOFP being pretty decent films. When I read Singer's comment that he's making his 1st superhero chick flick regarding SR a red flag went up. I was willing to give him a chance but that comment made my optimism take a nose dive and it turned out just as I feared. SR was not good. It had a big budget and Routh was a good as Supes and it was beautifully shot but it didn't work. how do you make a Superman movie with an over 200 million dollar budget and no action, just Supes lifting heavy things. The plane sequence was nice and well done and that was the highlight of the movie. The rest was crap wrapped in a pretty box with a bow tie. I did like the kid even though I'm in the minority.


I don't know what we are going to get with Apocalypse but it won't be faithful to the comics. I'm sure wolverine will be the one in the end to take him down. FOX shot themselves in the foot. I guess now we are supposed to believe that all this stuff took place in the 70's and 80's before X1 like the Sentinals in the 1970's? Yeah technology was rely that advanced in the 70's. How is Wolverine even supposed to be there? I guess they can say he changed the timeline. I just don't care at this point. FOX will never get another dime of my money for these films. I didn't pay to see DOFP but it was decent.

 

[Flint Marko]

Avengers was a popcorn flick, at least the Xmen films have had plots for the most part

I can't tell if you're serious. Pretty much every single movie we discuss on this site is a "popcorn flick". Using that term to try and deride a movies success is just plain ridiculous considering we are talking about movies based on superhero comic books.
And the Avengers had a plot, by the way.

 

[Mad Ones]

Ugh superhero message boards. Avengers and DOFP were both good movies.

I have a preference for DOFP but I don't have to knock the Avengers because of it.

I'm extremely excited for Apocalypse.

 

[psylockolussus]

I have a love/hate relationship with Singer. I said it in my original post, the dude is a great story teller and can direct the hell out of actors. However when it comes to paying respect to source material? He doesn't care. That's where my disdain towards Singer comes from. It's really frustrating really. DOFP is a great film in it's own right, so was FC and X-2. To simply discredit them and not call them for what they're truly are because they didn't stay true or pay respect to the source material is ridiculous and pathetic. We live in a world where GOTG and Avengers happened, Singer's excuses for no costumes and adapting characters is now invalid.

Just because those movies happened, it doesn't mean every X-Men are gonna dress up in the next film like as if they will attend a cosplay convention or they will be a carbon copy of the comics. Obviously, they still have to consider whats been established and used in the past.

The only way I see them truly embracing the looks of the comics and characterization truly based from the comics (for established characters like Cyke, Storm, Rogue) is through a reboot which isn't gonna happen anytime soon.

 

[def28]

They'll change. The movies take place in different decades and what they wear has to reflect the times. And since the 80s are coming up next that's a good time to go with the more wild colors and designs.

We don't live in the late 90s early 00's anymore either, so any modern X team should be updated accordingly as well.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I don't know what we are going to get with Apocalypse but it won't be faithful to the comics. I'm sure wolverine will be the one in the end to take him down. FOX shot themselves in the foot. I guess now we are supposed to believe that all this stuff took place in the 70's and 80's before X1 like the Sentinals in the 1970's? Yeah technology was rely that advanced in the 70's. How is Wolverine even supposed to be there? I guess they can say he changed the timeline. I just don't care at this point. FOX will never get another dime of my money for these films. I didn't pay to see DOFP but it was decent.

First off, I had no idea DOFP was available for rental for free already. I didn't see it on Netflix.

Second, just to answer your question, the timeline has been altered so the events aren't going to lead to X-Men 1. But the technology doesn't strike me as all that hard to believe. After all, the 70s in the X-Men universe had the same technology.