Abstinence-Only Education vs Sex Education

[StorminNorman]

This is one of the big reasons I don't like public education. Sex shouldn't be it school subject, but with the way school is in society, it pretty much has to be.

What we really need is more fundamental than sex ed reform - we need kids to stop having sex. We need a more moral society (which is not to say we need government making society more moral).

 

[bell110]

Texas decides to teach 'abstinence plus' after abstinence only proves inneffective.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/texa...lum-after-abstinence-only-proves-ineffective/

Welcome to 2011. Abstinence Plus sounds alot like regular old Sex Ed. By calling it abstinence plus, it's like they can't concede that abstinence only doesn't work. What do abstience only people think sex ed teaches? How great sex is? They've always taught the importance of abstinence.

This is one of the big reasons I don't like public education. Sex shouldn't be it school subject, but with the way school is in society, it pretty much has to be.

What we really need is more fundamental than sex ed reform - we need kids to stop having sex. We need a more moral society (which is not to say we need government making society more moral).

Sexual education is a part of health education, so it should be a school subject as much as nutrition. Plus, I remember that parents were allowed to opt their kids out of that part if they wanted, so it's not like parent's hands are tied.

Sex isn't immoral. Maybe what we need as a society is to move away from out puritan roots.

 

[StorminNorman]

Sexual education is a part of health education, so it should be a school subject as much as nutrition. Plus, I remember that parents were allowed to opt their kids out of that part if they wanted, so it's not like parent's hands are tied.

Sex isn't immoral. Maybe what we need as a society is to move away from out puritan roots.

Sex isn't immoral, but society is far to sexualized and meaningless sex is far more harmful than most realize (emotionally, health-wise, etc.) The notion that society is still grounded in puritanical roots is an outdated cliche. Monogamy is a good thing.

 

[WildcatNC]

Sex isn't immoral, but society is far to sexualized and meaningless sex is far more harmful than most realize (emotionally, health-wise, etc.) The notion that society is still grounded in puritanical roots is an outdated cliche. Monogamy is a good thing.

Most of the damage from sex isn't objective, as in, this is an inherent quality of sex. Most of the damage is from contradictions and inconsistencies in the societal psychological framework and the instinctual psychological framework of it. Much of the damage is guilt/shame based (which springs from said "puritanical roots", and unwanted/early pregnancy or STD's, which springs from ignorance and improper education (from parents, not schools).

Its also FAR from an outdated cliche. It still affects the way many americans view things. Old habits die hard. Its OK to show torture and murder every night, but show a nipple on a halftime show and half the country loses its mind. Its apparent in the country every day. We can love us some old testament violence, but S-E-X or even non sexual nudity?? Awww hell no, thats some evil ****. It brings about a passion thats NOT bloodlust.

 

[enterthemadness]

Sex education should be dropped. There's no need for it in school. When I went to school, I just ignored it--then again, I generally ignored anything that wasn't P.E or Art related.

 

[Sarcasmo]

This is one of the big reasons I don't like public education. Sex shouldn't be it school subject, but with the way school is in society, it pretty much has to be.

Agreed. It's a rough subject, but teenagers NEED to learn how to have safe sex. It will save their lives later on.

What we really need is more fundamental than sex ed reform - we need kids to stop having sex. We need a more moral society (which is not to say we need government making society more moral).

What you want is impossible. Teenagers will be teenagers, and they will drink and experiment with marijuana and the like. Kids will never stop having sex. Believe me I'm 17 years old for christs sake, I see it everywhere, at every party I see couple running up to bedrooms to do the deed, girls talking about birth controls in the hallway, I've seen a couple girls drop their purses and a condom fall out. The only thing you can do is tell them what can happen with unprotected sex, and tell them how to avoid pregnancy, STI's, etc. Telling them lies about them going blind or rotting in hell (I don't know if that's what you're meaning, but you get the idea). And with the wonders of the internet, a teen can learn about sex from porn among other things and just ignore abstinence teachings. What you suggest is impossible

Sex education should be dropped. There's no need for it in school. When I went to school, I just ignored it--then again, I generally ignored anything that wasn't P.E or Art related.

You were probably to busy watching porn.

 

[bell110]

Sex isn't immoral, but society is far to sexualized and meaningless sex is far more harmful than most realize (emotionally, health-wise, etc.) The notion that society is still grounded in puritanical roots is an outdated cliche. Monogamy is a good thing.

Well, everybody is different. What's too sexualized for one person is not a big deal to another. Some people get emotionally tangled regarding sex, other's don't. But it's hard to say the notion that our puritanical ideals are outdated when people get upset over a wardrobe malfunction or the "hot coffee" hack from Grand Theft Auto.

Sex education should be dropped. There's no need for it in school. When I went to school, I just ignored it--then again, I generally ignored anything that wasn't P.E or Art related.

Why should it be dropped any more than P.E. or Art should be dropped. Sex Ed was far more beneficial to me than anything I ever learned in Gym.

 

[StorminNorman]

Most of the damage from sex isn't objective, as in, this is an inherent quality of sex. Most of the damage is from contradictions and inconsistencies in the societal psychological framework and the instinctual psychological framework of it. Much of the damage is guilt/shame based (which springs from said "puritanical roots", and unwanted/early pregnancy or STD's, which springs from ignorance and improper education (from parents, not schools).



I use to agree, but the more experience I have (not personal, but with others) the more I am forced to reject this stance. The problem with over sexualization isn't even the sex itself, it's the gluttony behind it. It's the lack of personal responsibility. It's the belief that it's okay to put your penis in anything, okay to drink yourself stupid every night, to live your life high all the time. I am not against any of these acts, far from it - but there is a point where it becomes detrimental to an individual's character.

Its also FAR from an outdated cliche. It still affects the way many americans view things. Old habits die hard. Its OK to show torture and murder every night, but show a nipple on a halftime show and half the country loses its mind. Its apparent in the country every day. We can love us some old testament violence, but S-E-X or even non sexual nudity?? Awww hell no, thats some evil ****. It brings about a passion thats NOT bloodlust.

Well, everybody is different. What's too sexualized for one person is not a big deal to another. Some people get emotionally tangled regarding sex, other's don't. But it's hard to say the notion that our puritanical ideals are outdated when people get upset over a wardrobe malfunction or the "hot coffee" hack from Grand Theft Auto.

The controversy around a boob popping out of a Super Bowl half time show, an event watched by all sorts of demographics who have no interest in that, is perfectly fine and rational. Now certain groups took it too far, but since when did a small but vocal interest group represent society?

The same can be said for "hot coffee". Society didn't care. The majority of Americans have no idea what "hot coffee" is. Certain vocal groups did.

 

[mclay18]

What we really need is more fundamental than sex ed reform - we need kids to stop having sex. We need a more moral society (which is not to say we need government making society more moral).

Teenagers are going to have sex regardless -- for some, losing their virginity is a rite of passage or 'becoming a man.' And some do it just because it feels good. What needs to be focused on is the consequences of unsafe sex (STDs, unwanted pregnancy, et al) and stressing different contraceptive/birth control methods if they're going to have sex either way.

Shielding kids from sex works to a degree, but eventually they'll have to know about it. There's been several reports of children from England to Romania as young as 10 having sex and getting pregnant. The abstinence-only thing isn't working, and trying to stop kids from having sex will be nigh-on impossible. If they're going to have sex, they'll find a way to do it without their parents knowing about it.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

This is one of the big reasons I don't like public education. Sex shouldn't be it school subject, but with the way school is in society, it pretty much has to be.

What we really need is more fundamental than sex ed reform - we need kids to stop having sex. We need a more moral society (which is not to say we need government making society more moral).

Yeah, we should get back to the morals of the 50s and 60s when a couple would get married right out of high school, then the man gets a job and is sleeping with the secretary every night while the little woman is home making dinner.

Sex education should be dropped. There's no need for it in school. When I went to school, I just ignored it--then again, I generally ignored anything that wasn't P.E or Art related.

How's that working out for you? Aren't you living with your parents working a paper route at 24 years old? Maybe paying a little more attention would've helped.

 

[Sarcasmo]

Yeah, going back to the 'Murrica of the past, where people were all pure and good is impossible. The world has moved on and progressed from those times and those ideas. Time for America to realise this and do the same. And that can go for a lot of issues, but that's for another thread.

How's that working out for you? Aren't you living with your parents working a paper route at 24 years old? Maybe paying a little more attention would've helped.

Ouch

 

[redhawk23]

This is one of the big reasons I don't like public education. Sex shouldn't be it school subject, but with the way school is in society, it pretty much has to be.

What we really need is more fundamental than sex ed reform - we need kids to stop having sex. We need a more moral society (which is not to say we need government making society more moral).

In France, England and Sweden teenage sex rates are just as high and yet prenancy and abortion rates are mere fractions of ours. While abstinence is the most effective prevention of pregnancy and I'm fine with the promotion of it, we need to be be honest about the other options out there.

 

[dnno1]

You can preach abstinence only if you want but you've also got to realize that you're fighting against hormones which basically were designed to make you promiscuous. I think sex education is a value, but if you insist on abstinence only, leave that up to the private sector.

 

[redhawk23]

I agree. Comprehensive education is called that for a reason, it includes abstinence.

 

[SentinelMind]

Local school board should decide for themselves based on what best represents the parent's culture and value system.

The problem is that teaching the moral value system behind abstinence is prohibited in the classroom and this is the likely result. It is not true that every high school teenager has sex or smoked marijuana. Some kids actually have values and self-respect. Those values are taught in churches and homes...but not in PC schools. In public schools, "what feels good is right" is what's taught...and we facilitate that mindset and whalaa....look at the results.

The hand-out free condoms in Washington DC is obviously not working.

 

[StorminNorman]

Teenagers are going to have sex regardless -- for some, losing their virginity is a rite of passage or 'becoming a man.' And some do it just because it feels good. What needs to be focused on is the consequences of unsafe sex (STDs, unwanted pregnancy, et al) and stressing different contraceptive/birth control methods if they're going to have sex either way.

Sure, there will always be teenagers having sex - but a lot of the modern day teen sex rates are a direct consequence of a lack of moral foundation in Western Civilization. Look, I am not a Bible thumper (I am not a religious man, nor do I suscribe to any Judeo-Christian belief system), but it doesn't require an evangelist to see that there is a lot of idiotic, irresponsible activity in society today.

Right now the majority of society encourages sex at an early age. Watch the shows on "ABC Family" that glorify teen pregnancy, or musical acts that promote one night stands. Social pressures make it very difficult to remain a virgin (especially if you aren't a social outcast).

I am not at all for any sort of government role in this, but society has to realize that a prosperous and moral society starts on the individual level.

In France, England and Sweden teenage sex rates are just as high and yet prenancy and abortion rates are mere fractions of ours. While abstinence is the most effective prevention of pregnancy and I'm fine with the promotion of it, we need to be be honest about the other options out there.

My concern isn't particularly with abortion and STD, it's emotional, it's behavioral.

You can preach abstinence only if you want but you've also got to realize that you're fighting against hormones which basically were designed to make you promiscuous. I think sex education is a value, but if you insist on abstinence only, leave that up to the private sector.

You have to realize that part of being civil is fighting primal urges.

 

[redhawk23]

You're making a lot of generalizations here. First, your first paragraph is riddled with suppositions that the only people who don't teach their kids about sex are religious people. Are you seriously going to claim that most non-religious people DO teach their kids about sex? Let's hope not, because the level of irresponsibility in non-religious parents is probably greater than in parents with 'faith' and a 'moral foundation.'

Second, you're making more generalizations about the relationships between most parents and most kids. How do YOU know if kids 'don't want to have the sex talk with their parents' ... where's the data?

Of COURSE it's awkward, but that doesn't mean kids avoid it, or that kids are justified in being hesitant to discuss such things with their parents.

Parents are the #1 influence in the life of a child. Rather than teaching kids about sex in school (which I'm not completely against given just how many parents are complete losers), the schools should be instead sending booklets home to the parents and requesting that they instruct their kids. They could do a follow-up and quiz the kid on his or her knowledge, and then fill in the gaps where appropriate.

Point being, it's a shame that a lot of parents use a government school as the means for educating their kids about sex, but the school should be taking more steps to keep parents involved.

Where's your data? Can we all agree to stop making ridiculous and baseless claims?

 

[redhawk23]

Sure, there will always be teenagers having sex - but a lot of the modern day teen sex rates are a direct consequence of a lack of moral foundation in Western Civilization. Look, I am not a Bible thumper (I am not a religious man, nor do I suscribe to any Judeo-Christian belief system), but it doesn't require an evangelist to see that there is a lot of idiotic, irresponsible activity in society today.

Right now the majority of society encourages sex at an early age. Watch the shows on "ABC Family" that glorify teen pregnancy, or musical acts that promote one night stands. Social pressures make it very difficult to remain a virgin (especially if you aren't a social outcast).

I am not at all for any sort of government role in this, but society has to realize that a prosperous and moral society starts on the individual level.



My concern isn't particularly with abortion and STD, it's emotional, it's behavioral.



You have to realize that part of being civil is fighting primal urges.

That is definitely a factor and a major problem in our country. Sex is held in a different context in other countries. On a societal level we are still very uptight and somewhat shameful towards it. It make's its prevalence in the media like a sugar rush. The media's message on the matter is far more dominant than the rest of the discussion because that discussion is hardly happening. Sex is both glamorized and shamed. It's a weird cultural strain. There is more that needs to be added to the conversation abut responsible sexual practices other than simply 'DON'T AND YOU WON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT.'
That does not give people the ability to make informed decisions. Educate comprehensibly. Abstinence definitely has its place. Saying that it is the most effective method of avoiding the problems associated with sex is absolutely true statement. But sex education programs should still be truthful about the situation as whole.

Another thing I always found somewhat ridiculous was how many abstinence only programs don't include basic "facts of life" kinds of things, just the biological side of things. It terrifies me how many high school students don't have a basic grasp on how pregnancy works.

 

[bell110]

Local school board should decide for themselves based on what best represents the parent's culture and value system.

The problem is that teaching the moral value system behind abstinence is prohibited in the classroom and this is the likely result. It is not true that every high school teenager has sex or smoked marijuana. Some kids actually have values and self-respect. Those values are taught in churches and homes...but not in PC schools. In public schools, "what feels good is right" is what's taught...and we facilitate that mindset and whalaa....look at the results.

The hand-out free condoms in Washington DC is obviously not working.

What high school did you go to? My school definitely didn't teach that.

 

[StorminNorman]

That is definitely a factor and a major problem in our country. Sex is held in a different context in other countries. On a societal level we are still very uptight and somewhat shameful towards it. It make's its prevalence in the media like a sugar rush. The media's message on the matter is far more dominant than the rest of the discussion because that discussion is hardly happening. Sex is both glamorized and shamed. It's a weird cultural strain. There is more that needs to be added to the conversation abut responsible sexual practices other than simply 'DON'T AND YOU WON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT.'
That does not give people the ability to make informed decisions. Educate comprehensibly. Abstinence definitely has its place. Saying that it is the most effective method of avoiding the problems associated with sex is absolutely true statement. But sex education programs should still be truthful about the situation as whole.

Another thing I always found somewhat ridiculous was how many abstinence only programs don't include basic "facts of life" kinds of things, just the biological side of things. It terrifies me how many high school students don't have a basic grasp on how pregnancy works.

I agree with a lot of this.

The problem is that proper sex education should stress the importance of sex. The message should be that sex IS good and it is because of that fact that you should reserve it for someone you love (not that that necessarily means married to). And I don't see that message every flying in public school.

The real problem here is the school system in general - not simply sex ed. The quality of the sex ed program is really on par with everything else. We need a complete destruction of centralized government-influenced education and allow a free market in education (we can debate whether there should be a public-funded voucher like aspect or not).

 

[Snare]

Only people who can't get it, try to make others not do it. True fact.

 

[SuperT]

Abstinence-Only Education does not work, I've always stood firmly by that. We are doing our children of great disservice if we don't provide them with the proper sexual education.

Why do you think our teen pregnancies are so high in this country? Because people are trying to force their own personal ridiculous moral codes other people and their families.

Not teaching our children safe sex practices in addition to abstinence-only education is just down right irresponsible. If you don't want your child learning about that that's fine, most schools have an opt-out where the parent or the student can choose to sit out the class.

 

[StorminNorman]

Only people who can't get it, try to make others not do it. True fact.

I am not sure if this is a serious statement or tongue-in-cheek, but its a wonderful example of the idiotic, childish view of sex that I believe modern culture fosters.

 

[Snare]

I am not sure if this is a serious statement or tongue-in-cheek, but its a wonderful example of the idiotic, childish view of sex that I believe modern culture fosters.

You can't argue with science man. Statistics never lie.

 

[Lighthouse]

You can't argue with science man. Statistics never lie.

But people do.