Baptism

[ChickenScratch]

Original sin. LOL!

 

[amazingfantasy15]

Some religious factions believe that everyone is born with "original sin," which is the sin of the human species (think Adam and Eve sinning in the garden of Eden). So the baptizing I guess is supposed to "pardon" this original sin that the baby is born with in case they die, so they will be absolved of their only sin so far in their life.

I don't agree with it at all. I think that if a baby dies unbaptized, God isn't going to condemn it to hell. I don't know of any New Testament Biblical evidence that says you have to baptize babies or they'll go to hell, either.

Yeah, original sin is one of the problems I have with the Catholic faith. I mean right from birth we're taught to be guilty, we're still working off Adam and Eve's crime seriously?!?! God really knows how to hold a grudge!

Attending many of my family member's wedding and their children's batism's I've often wondered about this. Basically would I really want to get married in a church and baptize my kids? I know my family would expect it, but at the same time I'd feel it was at least somewhat not right, I don't go to church and have a number of problems with the church, I mean if it was important to my wife I'd do it, but can't really see myself pushing for it. Baptism is a whole other thing, can't really get behind the whole my kid's a scumbag from go in the church eyes until a priest throws some water in his or her face.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

My theology class talked about original sin today. I thought I'd pass on some of what we covered.

First off, the idea of original sin is a theological one conceived by St. Augustine (350-430). Original sin is not Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit or disobedience to God. Original sin comes from the desire involved in sexual procreation, basically it is caused from Adam and Eve participating in human nature. Humans have it simply from being born as it is passed on from the parents. The effect of original sin is that humans have a dysfunctional will and can do nothing to gain salvation and are therefore condemned forever.

The only way they can receive salvation is through God's grace. However, nothing humans do can influence whether or not they receive God's grace, they cannot merit salvation within themselves. It's almost predestination.

Remember, all of that is one theologian's own ideas. It is not present in the Bible.

As for Baptism, it predates the concept of original sin and was originally a Jewish tradition. Baptism does not rid humans of original sin, it rids them of the eternal condemnation which is caused by original sin. That is how original sin is still passed on even if parents have been baptized.

The Church saw the idea of Jesus possibly having original sin as being very dangerous. So in the middle ages they said that Mary was blessed with God's grace and born without it.

The concept of original sin wasn't adopted by the Church until the 19th century though infant baptism was performed after Augustine established this idea.

Also, the Orthodox church does not believe in Augustine's concept of original sin. The Catholic and Protestant churches do though.

So yeah, those are basically my notes for the class. Just thought I'd pass that along. I don't get into religion, especially on the internet, because it's people's own personal business.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

My theology class talked about original sin today. I thought I'd pass on some of what we covered.

First off, the idea of original sin is a theological one conceived by St. Augustine (350-430). Original sin is not Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit or disobedience to God. Original sin comes from the desire involved in sexual procreation, basically it is caused from Adam and Eve participating in human nature. Humans have it simply from being born as it is passed on from the parents. The effect of original sin is that humans have a dysfunctional will and can do nothing to gain salvation and are therefore condemned forever.

The only way they can receive salvation is through God's grace. However, nothing humans do can influence whether or not they receive God's grace, they cannot merit salvation within themselves. It's almost predestination.

Remember, all of that is one theologian's own ideas. It is not present in the Bible.

As for Baptism, it predates the concept of original sin and was originally a Jewish tradition. Baptism does not rid humans of original sin, it rids them of the eternal condemnation which is caused by original sin. That is how original sin is still passed on even if parents have been baptized.

The Church saw the idea of Jesus possibly having original sin as being very dangerous. So in the middle ages they said that Mary was blessed with God's grace and born without it.

The concept of original sin wasn't adopted by the Church until the 19th century though infant baptism was performed after Augustine established this idea.

So yeah, those are basically my notes for the class.

Don't we kind of need that to continue the human race? I mean, I don't think we can wait for God to knock up all the women in the world.

 

[Star]

I'm too lazy to read the whole thread but I'm sure what I'm about to say has been mentioned

Baptism is more 'for the parents' I think. I was baptized and I turned out ok...? Lol, well, I mean I could still make my own choices.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Don't we kind of need that to continue the human race? I mean, I don't think we can wait for God to knock up all the women in the world.

What exactly are you asking?

 

[Logan's Runt]

Don't we kind of need that to continue the human race? I mean, I don't think we can wait for God to knock up all the women in the world.

I think the theory goes that since procreation happened after the fall of man and exile from the Garden, it must be part of the new low-brow sinner life that Adam and Eve got themselves into.

And Spidey-Bat- that might be the Original Sin theory of some Christian sects, but it's not that of the Catholic Church. Catholics teach that Original Sin is the sin committed by Adam and Eve in the Garden itself, which parted humanity from God from then on. From your use of the term 'grace' in your explanation I would venture to guess your discussion was based in Protestant understandings. I'm not saying either is right, but for the sake of the discussion, I thought I'd clarify that some Christianities do in fact believe it's tied to Adam and Eve.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
403 Following St. Paul, the Church has always taught that the overwhelming misery which oppresses men and their inclination towards evil and death cannot be understood apart from their connection with Adam's sin and the fact that he has transmitted to us a sin with which we are all born afflicted, a sin which is the "death of the soul".291 Because of this certainty of faith, the Church baptizes for the remission of sins even tiny infants who have not committed personal sin.292

 

[Spidey-Bat]

My class is about early Christianity so we were just talking about the original concept that Augustine had developed. I guess that Catholicism and Protestantism just took his concept and refined it later on.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I was baptized and you do you know how much of a role religion plays in my life?

Nothing. Nothing at all.

Baptized or not, doesn't make any difference.

 

[Schlosser85]

Our church basically sees it as emulating Jesus and a mark of your commitment in your faith by walking in His footsteps. Pastor offered either dunking or sprinkling water on your head, and I figured what the hell, just went for the full dunking.