Episode 2: The Variant (Spoiler Discussion)

[Marvolo]

These time nazis in the MCU must have went to the same School of *****ebaggery and Self Righteousness as the angels in Supernatural.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I've been wondering are the Timekeepers going to be that much different than Watchers if they ever get fully established. I know Watchers don't interfere with the affairs or living creatures and their lives they just watch. The Timekeepers seem to monitor the flow of the timelines making sure the central one is not messed with but they seem like they decided what timeline is important. Really hope Kang is involved as a Timekeeper or someone that use to be with them.

It is interesting that in the comics Kang was in opposition to the Time Keepers because his future self would become Immortus and serve as their primary agent.

I understand why so many expect an explicit connection to him.

And having Ravonna is another big flag.

That said... I think it would be better if the swerve of the swerve was that these Time Keepers are real and given Time Travel maybe we are seeing how the TVA and Time Keepers came to be as well as their ultimate destruction.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

It is interesting that in the comics Kang was in opposition to the Time Keepers because his future self would become Immortus and serve as their primary agent.

Yeah given their comic origins I don't expect Kang to be one of the Time Keepers. But now that you mention it, it would be interesting to have some version of Immortus/Kang be either the other analyst that brought Ravonna stuff she uses in her office, or have him be Ravonna's direct superior. And then of course have a past Kang work in opposition of them.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Yeah given their comic origins I don't expect Kang to be one of the Time Keepers. But now that you mention it, it would be interesting to have some version of Immortus/Kang be either the other analyst that brought Ravonna stuff she uses in her office, or have him be Ravonna's direct superior. And then of course have a past Kang work in opposition of them.

Yeah the first two eps are I think chock full of little mysteries I hope we get revelations for.

You don't highlight this mystery analyst or that Ravonna's office is filled with these artifacts without it coming back in some form or meaning something.

 

[Another_Fool]

As someone who dislikes Thor Ragnarok, I feel like the show is doing an excellent job of balancing the dramatic weightiness of the Loki character while also inserting his silliness from Taika's film.

The first 2 episodes have been fantastic and I really hope it maintains this quality the remainder of season. I kind of felt Wandavision dropped hard for a few episodes after the excellent first 5 until the finale so I'm bracing for a dip.

 

[Venom 1988]

The movie delays may have screwed things up a bit, we would have had Dr.Strange 2(originally May 2021) by now and that would have for sure provided more deeper rule set on multiverse as it is a big scale movie and this is a mini series.

I don't know if you can definitively say that though. Yes obviously since the initial Comic Con announcements, there were creative changes on Strange 2 but all of that happened pre-covid. The writer of Loki got hired to rewrite Strange back in February 2020. And in a recent interview, the writer mentioned that he was writing Strange 2 based on what happens in Loki. So it seems had Strange 2 not been delayed, they possibly would have bumped Loki up to have it air first anyway.

Also this is not a mini series. The trades already confirmed its supposed to have at least another season.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

Yeah the first two eps are I think chock full of little mysteries I hope we get revelations for.

You don't highlight this mystery analyst or that Ravonna's office is filled with these artifacts without it coming back in some form or meaning something.

If the mystery analyst isn't Kang/Immortus, I'm going to say it's another Owen Wilson, since in the comics the TVA is full of guys who look like Mark Gruenwald, including Mr. Mobius, Mr. Tesseract, Mr. Paradox and Mr. Orobourous.

 

[The Caped Knight]

So am I over stepping but was that was Amora : The Enchantress at the end ?!

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

So am I over stepping but was that was Amora : The Enchantress at the end ?!

Maybe.

 

[Venom 1988]

So am I over stepping but was that was Amora : The Enchantress at the end ?!

People are thinking its the Slyvie version, albeit a very different version than the comics. If you pause the episode right at the moment Loki reads the file on her (after Mobius leaves) the first page he looks at says her name is Sylvie Laufeydottir.

I didn't even realize that till someone pointed it out on Reddit. Its around the 18:19 mark.

 

[Dr. Evil]

As someone who dislikes Thor Ragnarok, I feel like the show is doing an excellent job of balancing the dramatic weightiness of the Loki character while also inserting his silliness from Taika's film.

The first 2 episodes have been fantastic and I really hope it maintains this quality the remainder of season. I kind of felt Wandavision dropped hard for a few episodes after the excellent first 5 until the finale so I'm bracing for a dip.

It didn't help that the finales for the first two Disney+ MCU shows were hamstrung due to the Pandemic.

 

[Doctor Jones]

So was that supposed to be Lady Loki or Enchantress?

If it was Lady Loki, you got the horns, but Lady Loki still looks like a female version of Loki. She looks more like Enchantress. Plus when she says, "It's not about you." It almost could mean she means it's not actually about Loki.

 

[CK Spider]

So was that supposed to be Lady Loki or Enchantress?

If it was Lady Loki, you got the horns, but Lady Loki still looks like a female version of Loki. She looks more like Enchantress. Plus when she says, "It's not about you." It almost could mean she means it's not actually about Loki.

To be fair, OG Lady Loki was Loki in Sif's body, so I'm not surprised they changed that. I still think it's really Lady Loki and the Sylvie thingy might just be an allusion, like they incorporated some Sylvie elements in Lady Loki and made her call herself like that.

All in all, this show is amazing. I loved WandaVision as well, but this might be ahead. I can't wait for the next episode.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

So was that supposed to be Lady Loki or Enchantress?

If it was Lady Loki, you got the horns, but Lady Loki still looks like a female version of Loki. She looks more like Enchantress. Plus when she says, "It's not about you." It almost could mean she means it's not actually about Loki.

From the name in the file Venom 1988 mentioned it seems like this may be a female Loki variant who became the Enchantress. She has Loki's last name and is considered a variant of the same being as "our" Loki, but also has the hair and powers of Enchantress, plus the same first name as the Loki-created second Enchantress.

Also the file seems like a production error similar to SWORD files in the background in WandaVision predicting the future of some inhabitants of the Hex. If they have that file on the variant they're chasing with the name and all, why do they apparently know so little about the variant and call them 'he' and 'him' constantly and only refer to them as 'Loki' rather than 'Sylvie'?

 

[Hannibal75]

Maybe they amalgamated the characters of Lady Loki and Enchantress for this show.

One other question: what was the meaning of that FDR High School pen Ravonna gave to Mobius?
They were anything but subtle when they focused on it.

 

[CK Spider]

Also, the Laufeydottir surname strongly implies this is a version of Lady Loki after all.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

Also, the Laufeydottir surname strongly implies this is a version of Lady Loki after all.

Indeed. (Though it's funny seeing some confused people on Twitter absolutely convinced this must mean she's Loki's secret sister)

 

[Holy Slapper]

Based on the previous shows, I think all of your speculations are wrong.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Maybe they amalgamated the characters of Lady Loki and Enchantress for this show.

One other question: what was the meaning of that FDR High School pen Ravonna gave to Mobius?
They were anything but subtle when they focused on it.

Yes.

It was held on TOO long and they made sure the audience noted it for some reason.

I really think that before it wraps up a crap ton of stuff in the background or the like will through the time travel angle be shown to have been part of the story in many ways but at the moment their meaning was neutral or similar.

That investment bankers son, the pen, Ravonna's artifact collection, those rings caused by Mobius' drinks... I think we should pay close attention to all of it.

 

[Bren]

If there's anything I've learned from Wandavision..... None of those things will matter hahaha

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

If there's anything I've learned from Wandavision..... None of those things will matter hahaha

True enough.

 

[metaphysician]

Hmm. Aside from all the obvious praise, I think this episode increases the likelihood of the "the Time Keepers are a bunch of temporal conquerors reinforcing their hold" theory something close to 100%. That is, assuming the Time Keepers still exist. I mean, somebody godlike definitely existed at *some* point to create the TVA, but there is the "the TVA is running on organizational inertia and Wizard of Oz logic" option, too. Presumably Judge Renslayer is knowledgeable about more truths than Agent Moebius.

And while some people probably guess that the truth behind the Time Keepers is that they are secretly Kang and/or Immortus, I think I lean in the direction that that, if they aren't just three lizard gods? They are Loki. The TVA is one big dystopic joke that a particularly successful and evil Loki had at the expense of all reality.

 

[metaphysician]

Also, to note, the reason I *don't* think Kang is behind the TVA is because it doesn't really fit his MO, especially if he's going to be a major ongoing player later on ( as we know he will be ). Kang is Kang the *Conqueror*, and that isn't really going to be an apt descriptor unless he actually gets to do conquering. If he were beyond the TVA, it would be more like "Kang the Already-Having-Conquered", which doesn't work as well dramatically. That would be Immortus. *ahem*

If Kang has any involvement here, it will be that he's another force trying to overthrow the TVA. Maybe Kang is a rival of the TVA that they are still fighting "upstream", maybe he's an opportunist who will step in to try and take over a huge chunk of reality if/when the TVA gets blown to pieces. maybe Judge Renslayer is a mole for him, maybe she's just an opportunist who takes up with Kang after her old employers go kablooey. Lots of options.

 

[Venom 1988]

Also, to note, the reason I *don't* think Kang is behind the TVA is because it doesn't really fit his MO, especially if he's going to be a major ongoing player later on ( as we know he will be ). Kang is Kang the *Conqueror*, and that isn't really going to be an apt descriptor unless he actually gets to do conquering. If he were beyond the TVA, it would be more like "Kang the Already-Having-Conquered", which doesn't work as well dramatically. That would be Immortus. *ahem*

If Kang has any involvement here, it will be that he's another force trying to overthrow the TVA. Maybe Kang is a rival of the TVA that they are still fighting "upstream", maybe he's an opportunist who will step in to try and take over a huge chunk of reality if/when the TVA gets blown to pieces. maybe Judge Renslayer is a mole for him, maybe she's just an opportunist who takes up with Kang after her old employers go kablooey. Lots of options.

Maybe the TVA created the sacred timeline to prevent Kang from existing. Like maybe they see themselves as a necessary evil in order to make sure a bigger threat doesn't come into play. But because of whatever Loki shenanigans that come up during the show, the multiverse is reborn and Kang comes back into existence as a result.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Also, the Laufeydottir surname strongly implies this is a version of Lady Loki after all.

Yep. People are reading WAY too much into "Sylvie" in my opinion. Especially after the last two shows, I think the safest bet is to stick with Occam's Razor. The simplest answer is usually right. And there are many explanations for "Sylvia Laufeydottir" that are more simple than them introducing a Z-List alternative Enchantress who somehow has the same chronal & genetic coding as Loki.