Iron Fist Fight scene choreogrpahy

[TheVileOne]

It's not just stunts and fight choreography that will be important here, but how they are shot.

Just for example, good stunt choreography was constantly obscured during Star Trek Beyond. Poorly edited and you can almost never see anything.

If Luke Cage is going for more a classic blaxploitation style, then Iron Fist will be going for more of a 1970s martial arts, kung-fu movie style.

 

[Brian Braddock]

Yep. Enter the Dragon was mentioned in the other thread. I'd love it if they took beats from that.

 

[eon001]

Hearing some good things out of the NYCC previews. Sounds like they've captured the traditional Hong Kong cinema martial arts choreography. Hopefully we'll get another trailer at around December.

 

[eon001]

Hearing some good things out of the NYCC previews. Sounds like they've captured the traditional Hong Kong cinema martial arts choreography. Hopefully we'll get another trailer at around December.

Hmm my worse fear has been realized. Choppy American style editing for what could have been a decent choreography. But we'll never know because the editing cuts and pacing are horrible. I expect it to at least live up to the Daredevil fights.
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I was hoping it would resemble more of the super stylized Hong Kong martial arts movie exchanges. This is how the don fights 2 people

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[gohei_]

The trailer doesn't really say anything about the choreography because the editing is so quick, but I hope that's only for the trailer itself and that the fight scenes are actually shown differently in the show itself.
The cage fighting clip though looks pretty decent to be honest.

 

[Visualiza]

Hmm my worse fear has been realized. Choppy American style editing for what could have been a decent choreography. But we'll never know because the editing cuts and pacing are horrible. I expect it to at least live up to the Daredevil fights.

Good lord, that scene is just awful. I hope this is just a fluke, and not indicative of the quality that we can expect from the show.

 

[Darepool]

Good lord, that scene is just awful. I hope this is just a fluke, and not indicative of the quality that we can expect from the show.

I think it's the editing for the clip. Yesterday's trailer had poor editing as well imo. Seems ridiculous to say at this stage, but I get the feeling this may be the first misfire. The reports we heard last year of Marvel TV not being sure how to make the show 'work' may have been more on the nose then we suspected...like a struggle to find consistent tone.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

The editing in the trailer is fine, IMO. I noticed maybe one obvious editing issue but that's no different than most trailers.

Anyhow, that particular clip was the one shown at NYCC, I believe...the one the crowd supposedly loved. I don't love it but I certainly wouldn't say it's awful. I'm interested in seeing Danny's hallway fight scene that was also shown at NYCC. I think that will be more telling.

 

[Web-Head]

See if this one is any better for you guys

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[Darepool]

Anyone else get the feeling Colleen is going to be the breakout star of the show? Love what I've seen of her character so far. Prefer this one.

 

[Brian Braddock]

I like the look of the choreography in the trailer, but I'm less enthused with what I've seen in the Coleen/MMA cage match fight as there seems to be a few odd/weak-looking moves/missed beats in there. I'm aware that these things can happen so I'm not worried that it's indicative of the rest of the shows fights.

 

[ernesth100]

The Coleen Wing fight looked awkward. But everything in the trailers with Danny looks amazing.

 

[eon001]

Ok Well, I don't want to be too harsh. I will say the fight scenes improved greatly as the episodes progressed, but I will still have to give the shows choreography a 7/10.

Going forward, they will need the actors to really commit to training and performing, and they need some 2nd unit fight director specialist or a director that knows how to shoot a good fight scene.

Enter the Badlands has already proved you can get some high level fight scenes on tv. Marvel/Netflix need to meet the bar or exceed if they go for a season 2.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I think there was a deliberate attempt to hold the big martial arts stuff to the back half. There was a greater variety of influences and styles. That being said, there were still some issues - particularly since enthusiasts of the genre knows that the best way to do it is a wide focus, single take so you can see all the action. Instead, they have to use cuts, camera motion, etc. to hide that these are actors not fighters.

The simplest way is to have his face covered so stunt doubles can easily slip in. There was definitely a noticeable improvement when he had his hoodie up to cover his face.

 

[2kt09]

enthusiasts of the genre know that the best way to do it is a wide focus, single take so you can see all the action. Instead, they have to use cuts, camera motion, etc. to hide that these are actors not fighters.

Not really. Ambitious for sure, but you need to be quite the filmmaker to be able to pull off the wide focus, single take sequences,
especially if they go on for longer than seconds of a time. I repeat, that's why so many don't attempt them.

 

[eon001]

And would it kill them to hire some stunt actors for some of the smaller parts? They introduced a character later on in the season that really didn't have the greatest acting chops, and could have been played by a stunt guy.

Give us a decent fight scene in a shows about FIGHTING!

You'd be surprised how many talented actors have legit fight backgrounds.

Off the top of my head Caity Lotz (Arrow, Legends) is a legit martial artist and Warren Brown (Luther) was a Muay Thai champion.

 

[DorkyFresh]

Rossatron, from Youtube, has a great video illustrating what works and doesn't work when it comes to fight sequences. There's even a moment, at the 4:14 mark, where he talked about how guys like David Leitch (John Wick) can take actors and actresses, like Charlize Theron who aren't well trained in martial arts, and make them look like highly skilled fighters. Definitely recommended if you want to be able to tell what sets good fights apart from crummy ones.

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[eon001]

Not really. Ambitious for sure, but you need to be quite the filmmaker to be able to pull off the wide focus, single take sequences,
especially if they go on for longer than seconds of a time. I repeat, that's why so many don't attempt them.

With the right team it's fairly straight forward. There are Youtube stunt guys that film shots like that all the time.

Problem is the actors have limited or no background in choreography, hence the constant cut aways and stunt guy silhouettes.

The Matrix laid out a pretty clear blueprint that no one has been able to emulate since. If you can't hire a fighter that can act, make sure the give the actor plenty of time to train. Keanu and his co starts spent 6 months training, which is why the fight scenes in the Matirx looked so clean and flawless.

Iron Fist was clearly rushed. I'd say Finn probably had a month to get ready at best, and it shows in the final product.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Give us a decent fight scene in a shows about FIGHTING!

I might have said it before, but I'll repeat myself. The show was clearly a show about family. the construction and deconstruction of what makes a family and what corrupts it. Rand's surrogate family in K'un L'un, Wing's surrogate family with the Hand sect, The Meachums, Danny and the Meachums and of course the small group of friends Danny bonded with over the course of the season. That's what the show focused on, that's what the show was about. Fighting was a storytelling device, one of many. It's not a show ABOUT fighting.

 

[2kt09]

With the right team it's fairly straight forward. There are Youtube stunt guys that film shots like that all the time.

Problem is the actors have limited or no background in choreography, hence the constant cut aways and stunt guy silhouettes.

The Matrix laid out a pretty clear blueprint that no one has been able to emulate since. If you can't hire a fighter that can act, make sure the give the actor plenty of time to train. Keanu and his co starts spent 6 months training, which is why the fight scenes in the Matirx looked so clean and flawless.

Not sure which one shot you're referring to in The Matrix that lasted longer than seconds.

There's a laundry list of problems when attempting them.
Making sure your choreography doesn't come across as choreography wherein the timing is so obviously off that you can spot it. Making sure certain moves aren't so real that your performers end up too bruised to do them again. Making sure your cuts are subtle enough for the "single take" to be believable.
Making sure the camera work gets the right angles, be it static or in motion.

 

[eon001]

Fighting was a storytelling device, one of many. It's not a show ABOUT fighting.

And there wasn't enough of it at a high enough standard.

I'm not expecting the show to be an hour long fight scene. But when they do let the fist fly, I don't want to see a bunch of jump cuts and stunt guys in shadowy lighting.

 

[eon001]

Not sure which one shot you're referring to in The Matrix that lasted longer than seconds.

There's a laundry list of problems when attempting them.
Making sure your choreography doesn't come across as choreography wherein the timing is so obviously off that you can spot it. Making sure certain moves aren't so real that your performers end up too bruised to do them again. Making sure your cuts are subtle enough for the "single take" to be believable.
Making sure the camera work gets the right angles, be it static or in motion.

Those are all things that come along with the territory. If Marvel Netflix think that it's too difficult, then I would rather they just didn't bother at all, instead of half a$$ing it.

Making sure your choreography doesn't come across as choreography wherein the timing is so obviously off that you can spot it.

Tbh not only do I not have a problem with super clean choreography, I would totally welcome it. I grew up watching old Shaw brothers and Jackie Chan films, and I think some of the more playful Iron Fist fight scenes could have benefited from that choreographed look.

 

[2kt09]

Those are all things that come along with the territory. If Marvel Netflix think that it's too difficult, then I would rather they just didn't bother at all, instead of half a$$ing it.

Right, they're also things that inherently get magnified when you do a long "single shot"/"one-take".

Tbh not only do I not have a problem with super clean choreography, I would totally welcome it. I grew up watching old Shaw brothers and Jackie Chan films, and I think some of the more playful Iron Fist fight scenes could have benefited from that choreographed look.

The key part of what you quoted:

wherein the timing is so obviously off that you can spot it.