The Defenders Netflix ‘Marvel’s The Defenders’ Is Least-Viewed Among Marvel Street-Hero Serie

[chamber-music]

So its safe to say that MCU Netflix already peaked?

Not necessarily. Still got to see how The Punisher turns out and the new seasons of the four defenders solo characters could surpass expectations.

I certainly wouldn't call the MCU Netflix shows past their prime just yet.

 

[dmcreif]

Well, sure, you can distrust numbers from Netflix, if they published them. The point is, you *don't* need to trust Netflix in this regard. . . because they *don't* generally publish numbers. Because they don't care what anyone in the public believes about their shows' viewership. They know how many viewers each one gets, and how much money its making by their metrics, and that's what counts.

I'm not even sure they need to tell *content providers*, even. They know how valuable a given show is to them, and can use that in setting their negotiating positions. If a network or studio thinks their show is worth more than it actually is, and demands a higher than allowable cost. . . well, the thing about a show having low value is that losing it doesn't hurt Netflix very much. They can play chicken just fine.

That's what matters. Netflix doesn't publish numbers because they don't bow down to Nielsen.

 

[Dasher10]

Defenders' sins were dragging out a pretty nonsensical plot as much as it was carried over from Iron Fist and DD s2
+ the action wasn't as good as what came before.

I'll agree that the villains' plans were utterly ridiculous and stretched suspension of disbelief. A lot of that was due to Iron Fist tying Danny to The Hand, tying Gao to The Hand, making The Hand less Japanese, The Hand losing the ninja costumes, making The Hand operate openly, etc. And Iron Fist showed that The Hand don't need any macguffin to resurrect before they need one in Defenders. Trying to salvage them in Defenders after that was always an uphill battle. The Hand felt more like a plot device for Elektra than actual characters. It was mostly Elektra's story of. Elektra starts out good, becomes bad when she's ressurected as the Black Sky, becomes worse when she betrays The Hand so she can live forever and then becomes good again so Matt can live. The Hand literally only exist to further another character's fall and redemption.

I disagree on the action part. Daredevil's action was incredible but Iron Fist's fight scenes were often choppy, Luke Cage's looked great but were more reliant on CGI than actual stuntwork and Jessica Jones' were underwhelming. Defenders action actually looked plenty good to me.

I feel like if there is a second season, we need a stronger central antagonist. I'm all for Season 2 starting off with Gao as the last Finger of The Hand (and reporting on the phone to a boss in Japan who outranks even the Fingers named Izo) and then the second half of the season features HYDRA taking over with Xao as the big bad. Season 2 takes place almost entirely within the city of K'un-L'un and the K'un-L'un mountains (New York's Catskill mountains would double). Series would be shot in the winter. Elektra manages to redeem herself fully by helping to save K'un-L'un, Iron Fist also manages to become K'un-L'un's true protector, Colleen Wing manages to sever her ties to The Hand completely, Luke Cage wins the tournament and saves K'un-L'un from The hand, Daredevil buries Stick's ashes in K'un-L'un and Jessica Jones is mostly along for the ride. Danny loses the first round of the Tournament to Steel Serpent and then realizes that another force has infiltrated the city and they're packing some serious firepower. And HYDRA found heir way to K'un-L-un by kidnapping Lee Wing. Danny heads back to New York and gathers Misty Knight and Punisher. A three-way fight breaks out and Xao manages to kill Gao. Steel Serpent betrays The Hand after Gao's death and fights for K'un-L'un and convinces the other Immortal Weapons to do the same. Thunderer kills off Yu-Ti for having spied for HYDRA for years. Colleen cuts off one of Xao's arms and he runs away with the few remaining HYDRA forces. This is the last scene of the show.

Xao: If you kill me, we will hunt you down forever. HYDRA is eternal. We have existed for centuries and you will be our sworn eternal enemy. Don't you understand? We provide the world with guidance with authority. Humanity is unable to care for itself, it must be controlled. Think about what a man of your talents has to offer us. Cut off one head and two more shall take its place. Hail immortal HY...

*shotgun blast and Xao falls off cliff*

Punisher: Looks like I'm cutting off two more heads.

Schedule for 2019 shows will hopefully work like this

Punisher - early in the year, one it's done wrapping, move on to second half of Defenders.

Defenders - Q2. Film first half while last few Punisher episodes shoot.

Moon Knight - film concurrently with Defenders

Elektra - Film after Defenders. Shoot it in Washington DC with forests in Maryland doubling for South America. President Ken Wind has just been inaugurated... and he's replaced Bakuto as The Hand's daimo for the Western Hemisphere.


So... who else wants to see what I want to see for Defenders? At the very least, is this a better outline than what we got for Season 1?

As for what K'un-L'un has that everyone wants? Dragons. You'll live forever if you can breed them. HYDRA having the same immortal soldiers that The Hand has gives them the edge over everyone else and they're even worse than The Hand are.

 

[Dasher10]

Not necessarily. Still got to see how The Punisher turns out and the new seasons of the four defenders solo characters could surpass expectations.

I certainly wouldn't call the MCU Netflix shows pas their prime just yet.

This.

Punisher looks incredible so far and the guy behind Hannibal is showrunner. Plus all the people who liked VIP, Nikita, 24 and Strike Back and currently watch Homeland and Quantico will tune in.

Jessica Jones has had years in development and still retains the same showrunner. The odds of it being bad are next to none. Plus it's going to be Jessica shutting down IGH while also managing to fight off what remains of Killgrave taking control of her mind so David Tennant will still be the villain.

Luke Cage Season 2 looks like it won't do the same thing where the villain switches at the halfway point so it'll likely be more consistent. And even when Cage was, "bad" it was still really, really good. Colter and Missick are both likable as protagonists. The soundtrack will presumably still play a part. It won't flop.

Daredevil is awesome and even though Marco Ramirez didn't knock it out of the park with Defenders, much of that came down to adapting to how Iron Fist changed The Hand for the worse. Plus it's adapting Born Again. I can't see this doing poorly.

Iron Fist has a new showrunner. Scott Buck is no longer attached to the show and won't be running it into the ground. Plus production on Season 1 was rushed due to the shooting date of Defenders. There's more lead time now, likely better writers and showrunner who handled Sleepy Hollow which was a big hit for Fox. Odds are it'll be better than Season 1 which translates to a larger audience.

None of these will flop.

 

[dmcreif]

Yeah, they're pretty much set.

This.

Punisher looks incredible so far and the guy behind Hannibal is showrunner. Plus all the people who liked VIP, Nikita, 24 and Strike Back and currently watch Homeland and Quantico will tune in.

Jessica Jones has had years in development and still retains the same showrunner. The odds of it being bad are next to none. Plus it's going to be Jessica shutting down IGH while also managing to fight off what remains of Kilgrave taking control of her mind so David Tennant will still be the villain.

I think the main villain will actually be whatever character Janet McTeer is playing and/or Typhoid Mary and/or Will Simpson. I think a lot of us believe Kilgrave will appear as hallucinations, like he did on several occasions in the first season.

Luke Cage Season 2 looks like it won't do the same thing where the villain switches at the halfway point so it'll likely be more consistent. And even when Cage was, "bad" it was still really, really good. Colter and Missick are both likable as protagonists. The soundtrack will presumably still play a part. It won't flop.

And we've got Shades and Mariah coming back and they were considered some of the highlights among the villains.

Daredevil is awesome and even though Marco Ramirez didn't knock it out of the park with Defenders, much of that came down to adapting to how Iron Fist changed The Hand for the worse. Plus it's adapting Born Again. I can't see this doing poorly.

Well, elements of Born Again. They might take inspiration from other arcs as well like Death's Head (if we delve into Karen's past).

Iron Fist has a new showrunner. Scott Buck is no longer attached to the show and won't be running it into the ground. Plus production on Season 1 was rushed due to the shooting date of Defenders. There's more lead time now, likely better writers and showrunner who handled Sleepy Hollow which was a big hit for Fox. Odds are it'll be better than Season 1 which translates to a larger audience.

None of these will flop.

Season 2 hopefully will fix everything that was wrong with season 1. Properly balance Danny Rand billionaire stuff with Danny Rand the Iron Fist.

 

[Dasher10]

I think the main villain will actually be whatever character Janet McTeer is playing and/or Typhoid Mary and/or Will Simpson. I think a lot of us believe Kilgrave will appear as hallucinations, like he did on several occasions in the first season.



And we've got Shades and Mariah coming back and they were considered some of the highlights among the villains.



Well, elements of Born Again. They might take inspiration from other arcs as well like Death's Head (if we delve into Karen's past).



Season 2 hopefully will fix everything that was wrong with season 1. Properly balance Danny Rand billionaire stuff with Danny Rand the Iron Fist.

I feel like Karl Malus will be the main physical threat but Killgrave's consciousness will be Jessica's real true enemy since he'll be turning Jessica into him and slowly tempting her to do evil.

Luke Cage is going to do better than last season. It's a given. Misty now has her arm (or lack thereof). Plus we're getting five villains, six if Diamondback returns as Coldfire. Unless Atlas, Chemistro or Captain Hero decides to randomly show up and blow up all the antagonists halfway through, I can't see the same mistake made.

I heard rumors that the other story being adapted for Daredevil is Death of Jean DeWolff. makes sense since Sony's MCU fanfic Venom film is coming out and doing the Sin-Eater story makes sense to tie in with that. And if Typhoid is also being added to Jessica Jones, then it makes sense that Touch of Typhoid elements would also make it in.

Balancing story elements was the least of Iron Fist's problems. Inconsistent characterization, an unfocused basic plot and Finn Jones' lack of a stunt double were what held the show back. Somebody like Scott Adkins or Daniel Wu who can do all their own stunts is hard to come by, hence why Danny Rand needs a costume.

 

[KevTravels]

They promoted the heck out of this series.

 

[Brawl]

I think they need make the damn heros, heros! I mean its like watching 4 people that don't want to be there and they don't really get along. Look at all the other successful heroes and they WANT to be who they are.

DD: The dude is painful to watch as murdock sometimes as he whines and *****es about his life all the damn time.

JJ: Im sorry, shes not attractive and shes *****y all the time. Maybe some people like a woman that's just incredibly self destructive but to me its ****ing annoying, I wold have bounce on her long ago.

LC: hes good but he needs to want to be LC which I see him actually do more than the others, he needs a damn suit tho something other than a hoodie, And I'm sorry if Hemsworth and Evans can pack some muscle on for their role then Colter needs to pack some more muscle and rip that flab up a bit, hang out with the Roc.

IF: My gawd, its like they gave the role of IF to Harry Potter, hes just as petulant and keeps going on how hes the chosen one and only he can kill the evil bad guy because it killed his mum and dad. I was freaking waiting for Ron Weasly to show up!

They need to make them want to be superheros, the only person i really enjoyed 100% in Defenders was Rosario's NN, excellent performance with a small part.

 

[wampa1]

I think part of the problem was that there was no set-up or teasing of an eventual crossover series. The seeds just weren't planted. When you see Nick Fury turn up at the end of Iron Man you can't wait for The Avengers. There was nothing like that in The Defenders build-up. No mysterious background villain, no string-pulling, no teases. It's telling that with minimal rewrites, you could easily remove LC and JJ from The Defenders as their series' had NOTHING to do with the Hand.

 

[KevTravels]

Agents of Shield makes this look Emmy worthy.

 

[KevTravels]

why wasn't this a bigger HIT?

 

[psylockolussus]

Agents of Shield makes this look Emmy worthy.

Nope.

 

[eon001]

It started off good, but I hated the 3rd act.

The whole Defenders project feel WAY too forced. There trying to be the tv equivalent of the Avengers and it just didn't land imo.

Just stick to the solo show's and have the occasional cameo. Maybe follow the CW model and do a 4 ep cross over event.

 

[Iceman]

Also plausible: People want to watch all four series before seeing Defenders or they didn't like one of the characters so they didn't care about Defenders.q

Yeah. This is a measure of first 30 days and I think many people have the aim of watching everything (even Iron Fist) but want to be caught up on previously relevant material before they start anything new. Apart from Punisher the order you watch the other shows isn't the end of the world, but most people I think would rather have watched all of the other solo shows before tuning into Defenders.

 

[MadVillainy]

I wonder if they'll do a season 2 after this

 

[dmcreif]

I wonder if they'll do a season 2 after this

They renewed Iron Fist for a second season. I wouldn't be surprised if there's another Defenders team-up planned. It'll probably happen once the next round of four Netflix shows has completed.

 

[KevTravels]

It started off good, but I hated the 3rd act.

The whole Defenders project feel WAY too forced. There trying to be the tv equivalent of the Avengers and it just didn't land imo.

Just stick to the solo show's and have the occasional cameo. Maybe follow the CW model and do a 4 ep cross over event.

I agree. Very underwhelming. They should have Up'ed the budget and improved the writing. This mashup should have been Geek Heaven.

I figure we see a season 2 as early as summer 2019. No later than summer 2020

 

[MadVillainy]

They renewed Iron Fist for a second season. I wouldn't be surprised if there's another Defenders team-up planned. It'll probably happen once the next round of four Netflix shows has completed.

I mean why?
There's not really a benefit to do a full fleged Defenders 2. If all the shows performed better alone then they are in a team up which probably would be more expensive (actors salaries alone), then why would they do a sequel.

I think they'll stick to smaller team ups. But idk about a full team up again

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

So its safe to say that MCU Netflix already peaked?

maybe, but I think there's still some potential left. I still want to see all of them cameo in Av3, but I think it was confirmed that none of them will be showing up which is bullshxt in terms of the universe

 

[MadVillainy]

I mean it could've peaked but that's kinda silly to say if we're talking quality. It's only been 2 years. Most of these shows haven't even gotten their second seasons yet. Ratings wise Im not sure it'll get much better unless they really up the quality where it's must see TV like Stranger Things or Game of Thrones

 

[psylockolussus]

Thats the thing, these shows don't feel like a must TV outside of the core fanbase. Maybe Daredevil, but the rest? Forgettable after a month.

 

[MadVillainy]

Ok...they still pull in good-great ratings. Just because they aren't the hottest/biggest thing out doesn't mean anything. They still make money and people have been coming back season after season

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I mean it could've peaked but that's kinda silly to say if we're talking quality. It's only been 2 years. Most of these shows haven't even gotten their second seasons yet. Ratings wise Im not sure it'll get much better unless they really up the quality where it's must see TV like Stranger Things or Game of Thrones

in phase 1 of the movies, iron man was the only one to get a sequel but the movies overall have been a huge success, critically and financially.

before stranger things, i think the marvel shows were the most popular netflix originals. daredevil, then jessica jones, then daredevil season 2, and luke cage all broke records. iron fist i think broke records too but didn't get good reviews. honestly, i don't defenders was that good either, but it was promoted heavily. i saw signs all around the subway reminding me of its pending release just like I did for the other shows but there was WAY less hype around it.

game of thrones is in a league of its own, it doesn't compare to anything on netflix, not even stranger things. the only show that you can put in that league is the walking dead but even that show has declined in both quality and popularity over the years and now I think is comparable to stranger things which is on the rise

 

[MadVillainy]

Ok...

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Ok...

Ok what?