The Rise of Skywalker General Star Wars Episode IX News/Speculation Thread

[Consona]

Definitely.

 

[Grootster]

I can't judge whether or not Rian should direct Ep. 9 until after TLJ comes out.

My dream pick for Ep. 9 directors would be the Russo brothers. I'm sure they're busy with Infinity War and Marvel in general, but I get the feeling they would make a Star Wars movie that really feels like Star Wars. I think their Captain America movies captured that gritty, grounded tone that defined Star Wars with brief moments of witty humor, they even nailed the political angle without having the characters sit in boring senate debates. I would love to see a Star Wars movie done by them.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah, at this point I think they should just let Johnson finish out the trilogy.

Rian and JJ team up. I'll take it.

Or maybe they can get Brad Bird to do it...

All these shake ups are good imo. It means they are really looking at this. Just one more trigger to be pulled.

 

[Grootster]

I don't see how these shake ups are good. What makes it worse is that Lucasfilm said a few months ago that they don't like making official statements about future projects unless things are pretty much set in stone and they know where they're going with it. The fact that they're swapping writers and even bringing on entirely new directors halfway through for these movies is pretty worrisome.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Then you know nothing of the Book of Henry. A bad director is a bad director. You don't get to fix that once you release the movie. If they need to delay, then delay. This is the climax of the sequel trilogy, and they handed it to a bad storyteller, and mediocre visual director. This can be repaired. Miyamoto's words on games apply here. "A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad".

 

[Grootster]

That can sometimes be the case, but sometimes a bad director with a singular vision is better than a studio Frankensteining together a movie from several different directors and screenwriters. I guess it's sort of a 'pick your poison' situation, would you rather the new movies be more like The Phantom Menace or Suicide Squad?

Of course an obvious solution to the whole problem would be to simply hire competent directors from the beginning and let them do what they do. I find it amazing that Marvel manages to make so many good movies so smoothly (the last time I recall anything even close to this happening was with Ant-Man), but Lucasfilm has had behind-the-scenes trouble with pretty much all of these new Star Wars movies so far. At this point I'm really not sure if the studio executives like Kennedy are to blame, or the individual directors, or both. (I'm not just speaking of Ep. 9, also the drama around the Han Solo movie and whatnot.) So far it just seems like a series of bad decisions.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Who said anything about this being a Frankenstein job? That is exactly why you do this months before filming and not months after it has started. And since when is a bad director better then a studio who have already shown themselves capable of saving an underwhelming director in Edwards?

What behind the scenes problems were there for TFA and TLJ? None. They made poor hires in Edwards, Voldemort and perhaps even the very good Lord and Miller. But there are two obvious things you are avoiding in your usual complaining about Disney Star Wars.

1. This is the third film in the trilogy. They know where it is going. They know what is going to happen. They don't need a story made from the ground up.

2. They haven't started filming yet, and won't for months. They can easily "start over" and even delay the film until Christmas 2019 if they need to.

 

[Grootster]

I disagree that Gareth Edwards was a poor hire, I loved Rogue One and I attribute it's success to Edwards alone, I think he was a competent director who saved a movie that by all rights should have been unnecessary and terrible. I've seen no evidence that he nearly ruined the movie, and they've even said that the re-shoots were only extensive because of the large cast, and to streamline some things in the ending. It's funny how you act like I'm a Disney Star Wars hater when I've said multiple times that a Disney Star Wars movie is my second favorite Star Wars film, right behind ANH.

 

[writer0327]

I am officially worried about IX, as well as the SW franchise moving forward. Feels like a case of "too many cooks". Seems like Lucasfilm doesn't really know what they want to do with the franchise. They need to let the directors be or vet them out better.

 

[Grootster]

I am officially worried about IX, as well as the SW franchise moving forward. Feels like a case of "too many cooks". Seems like Lucasfilm doesn't really know what they want to do with the franchise. They need to let the directors be or vet them out better.

Yeah, exactly. When they purchased the franchise back in 2012, I think Disney/Lucasfilm jumped headfirst into making this stuff without properly sitting down to think the storyline out and come up with a plan for the franchise. I've pretty much lost interest in the sequel trilogy at this point, I'm just hoping that we get more good standalone movies down the road. I also really want to hear Lucas' idea for the sequel trilogy at some point.

 

[TheVileOne]

My hope is that in the future, everyone is on the same page from the outset and they aren't replacing directors midway through to reshoot half the film.

I guess my confusion with Han Solo is why did Lawrence Kasdan vouch so hard for them to get the job and then apparently turn on them? He had to have some working knowledge on how they like to film and work. Didn't Kathleen Kennedy actually meet with them and talk about their setups and the way they like to work beforehand as well? It just seems like what happened here could've been avoided. Was Lord and Miller a case of buyer's remorse?

A lot of Gareth Edwards' flaws for Godzilla were also overlooked before Rogue One.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I disagree that Gareth Edwards was a poor hire, I loved Rogue One and I attribute it's success to Edwards alone, I think he was a competent director who saved a movie that by all rights should have been unnecessary and terrible. I've seen no evidence that he nearly ruined the movie, and they've even said that the re-shoots were only extensive because of the large cast, and to streamline some things in the ending. It's funny how you act like I'm a Disney Star Wars hater when I've said multiple times that a Disney Star Wars movie is my second favorite Star Wars film, right behind ANH.

They had to re-shoot the movie because he shot an incoherent mess they had to streamline. The entire finale was overhauled and changed. It is why they clearly changed so many scenes from the trailers. They brought in another director for oversight purposes for that very reason. The same thing they wanted to do with Han Solo, but the original directors quit and Howard just took over fully.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

My hope is that in the future, everyone is on the same page from the outset and they aren't replacing directors midway through to reshoot half the film.

I guess my confusion with Han Solo is why did Lawrence Kasdan vouch so hard for them to get the job and then apparently turn on them? He had to have some working knowledge on how they like to film and work. Didn't Kathleen Kennedy actually meet with them and talk about their setups and the way they like to work beforehand as well? It just seems like what happened here could've been avoided. Was Lord and Miller a case of buyer's remorse?

A lot of Gareth Edwards' flaws for Godzilla were also overlooked before Rogue One.

It sounds like Lord and Miller weren't as giving as they may have originally said they would be. Kennedy ain't giving up final cut.

I also think it is telling that JJ and Rian were smooth sailing.

 

[Grootster]

They had to re-shoot the movie because he shot an incoherent mess they had to streamline. The entire finale was overhauled and changed. It is why they clearly changed so many scenes from the trailers. They brought in another director for oversight purposes for that very reason. The same thing they wanted to do with Han Solo, but the original directors quit and Howard just took over fully.

Where did you hear that it was an "incoherent mess"? Last I heard, the reshoots were for relatively minor things like talking in cockpits, they just took longer because of the large ensemble cast.

People love to talk about the missing shots from the trailers, but not much significant was changed or left out. A different variation of TIE Fighter comes down instead of up to shoot at Jyn in the final movie as opposed to the trailer, these things aren't big deals. I honestly thought nothing of the missing shots when I saw the movie, because this has happened with many of the big movies that have come out over the past couple years. Everything in the trailers captured the spirit of the final movie, even if the exact shot or take was different.

The only relatively major thing that seems to have been changed was merging several locations into one, which eliminated the characters running across the beach towards the walkers and confined everything to the same building. As I recall the stuff done in those buildings was the same as in the movie, they were just combined into one. Again, the spirit is the same, the situation was just streamlined and simplified. Yes it was a change, but I don't think "incoherent mess" is correct, all it probably took was cutting a few shots of them running on the beach and changing some CGI buildings. I'd venture to say many movies change things like this in post-production.

http://ew.com/article/2016/06/03/rogue-one-reshoots/

http://www.cbr.com/rogue-one-director-gareth-edwards-addresses-missing-trailer-scenes/

 

[writer0327]

My hope is that in the future, everyone is on the same page from the outset and they aren't replacing directors midway through to reshoot half the film.

I guess my confusion with Han Solo is why did Lawrence Kasdan vouch so hard for them to get the job and then apparently turn on them? He had to have some working knowledge on how they like to film and work. Didn't Kathleen Kennedy actually meet with them and talk about their setups and the way they like to work beforehand as well? It just seems like what happened here could've been avoided. Was Lord and Miller a case of buyer's remorse?

A lot of Gareth Edwards' flaws for Godzilla were also overlooked before Rogue One.

I think Lord and Miller weren't vetted properly at all. Lucasfilm didn't realize what they were getting into. I think Edwards wanted to do something a little grittier and Kennedy wasn't going for it.

But how much freedom did we think they were really going to give directors to bring to us unique takes on the SW universe? I think the directors came in thinking one thing, or expecting one thing, but realizing they don't have freedoms they enjoyed on other projects. Personally, I think the standalone films are a terrific idea, but if we don't get an interesting, unique take, if its just the same paint-by-numbers SW films we've always had, that will get old super quick. I want to see different things, new characters, new worlds, not more of the "Empire vs Rebels" formula.

 

[TheVileOne]

Interesting points writer0327

If the grittier idea was Vader showing up at the end and slicing up all the heroes, I could've gone for that . You can still argue they did a very brave ending with the way the third act played out and not giving everyone a typical Hollywood ending.

But based on what you said, it's almost like Kennedy and Kasdan just brought on Lord and Miller just based on Jump Street and LEGO Movie and didn't really give it much thought or discussion at all.

I also want these movies to get taken in new directions as well and not just be paint by numbers. But I also think Disney and Kennedy are scared if they veer too far off, audiences will reject these films.

no matter what you say about Rogue One, the film made over $500 million and a billion worldwide. Now, who knows how long they can keep up numbers like that, but one problem with that is that it will probably keep them from changing the current mindset. And that's definitely a concern for me.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Where did you hear that it was an "incoherent mess"? Last I heard, the reshoots were for relatively minor things like talking in cockpits, they just took longer because of the large ensemble cast.

People love to talk about the missing shots from the trailers, but not much significant was changed or left out. A different variation of TIE Fighter comes down instead of up to shoot at Jyn in the final movie as opposed to the trailer, these things aren't big deals. I honestly thought nothing of the missing shots when I saw the movie, because this has happened with many of the big movies that have come out over the past couple years. Everything in the trailers captured the spirit of the final movie, even if the exact shot or take was different.

The only relatively major thing that seems to have been changed was merging several locations into one, which eliminated the characters running across the beach towards the walkers and confined everything to the same building. As I recall the stuff done in those buildings was the same as in the movie, they were just combined into one. Again, the spirit is the same, the situation was just streamlined and simplified. Yes it was a change, but I don't think "incoherent mess" is correct, all it probably took was cutting a few shots of them running on the beach and changing some CGI buildings. I'd venture to say many movies change things like this in post-production.

http://ew.com/article/2016/06/03/rogue-one-reshoots/

http://www.cbr.com/rogue-one-director-gareth-edwards-addresses-missing-trailer-scenes/

That is impossible. How can it be the same, when they ran out of the building through the detention blocks, with K2SO with them? Now K2SO dies holding the door, while they have to climb up out of the building to the dish. How could that all possibly be the same?

They also had to shoot new death scenes for at least 3 of the characters and they scrapped a major part of the film, as the bench run was massive.

They also changed Vader's introduction in the movie, and his relationship with Krennic. Who at first was very arrogant towards Vader, who he met up with on the Darth Star originally, not his castle. They also had to re-shoot Krennic's death, as he clearly got off the planet, as you can see him walking on the beaches of Scarif, among many dead troops to his ship. Chances are, Vader killing him was the original idea.

They also had to change scenes with Saw, as his hair length changed in the post-opening. And they added the Andor/informant scene.

The shoots were extensive. Weeks worth of work and cost tens of millions of dollars.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Interesting points writer0327

If the grittier idea was Vader showing up at the end and slicing up all the heroes, I could've gone for that . You can still argue they did a very brave ending with the way the third act played out and not giving everyone a typical Hollywood ending.

But based on what you said, it's almost like Kennedy and Kasdan just brought on Lord and Miller just based on Jump Street and LEGO Movie and didn't really give it much thought or discussion at all.

I also want these movies to get taken in new directions as well and not just be paint by numbers. But I also think Disney and Kennedy are scared if they veer too far off, audiences will reject these films.

no matter what you say about Rogue One, the film made over $500 million and a billion worldwide. Now, who knows how long they can keep up numbers like that, but one problem with that is that it will probably keep them from changing the current mindset. And that's definitely a concern for me.

They have scripts for a reason. Notice how the directors of the saga films were all involved in the script, even Voldemort?

 

[Grootster]

That is impossible. How can it be the same, when they ran out of the building through the detention blocks, with K2SO with them? Now K2SO dies holding the door, while they have to climb up out of the building to the dish. How could that all possibly be the same?

They also had to shoot new death scenes for at least 3 of the characters and they scrapped a major part of the film, as the bench run was massive.

They also changed Vader's introduction in the movie, and his relationship with Krennic. Who at first was very arrogant towards Vader, who he met up with on the Darth Star originally, not his castle. They also had to re-shoot Krennic's death, as he clearly got off the planet, as you can see him walking on the beaches of Scarif, among many dead troops to his ship. Chances are, Vader killing him was the original idea.

They also had to change scenes with Saw, as his hair length changed in the post-opening. And they added the Andor/informant scene.

The shoots were extensive. Weeks worth of work and cost tens of millions of dollars.

I've never seen any evidence that anything you mentioned was changed aside from merging the locations at the end. This obviously caused some details to have to be tweaked, but I still don't know that Edwards made a mess out of anything. Things like Saw's hair change proves nothing, maybe the director just wanted him to have a different hair style; heck, things like that can be digitally altered these days (didn't they digitally lengthen Han's hair in TFA during a couple scenes?) Also, I believe it's been said that Vader's meeting with Krennic was always intended to be on Mustafar, they just used CGI to make it look like the Death Star for the trailer so as to not give away the surprise.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I've never seen any evidence that anything you mentioned was changed aside from merging the locations at the end. This obviously caused some details to have to be tweaked, but I still don't know that Edwards made a mess out of anything. Things like Saw's hair change proves nothing, maybe the director just wanted him to have a different hair style; heck, things like that can be digitally altered these days (didn't they digitally lengthen Han's hair in TFA during a couple scenes?) Also, I believe it's been said that Vader's meeting with Krennic was always intended to be on Mustafar, they just used CGI to make it look like the Death Star for the trailer so as to not give away the surprise.

The shots are in the trailer. And I am not talking about shots of Jyn or Krennic standing still. I am talking about locations we know they filmed and didn't appear in the movie.

Notice Saw is old and beaten up, but doesn't have the big hair? He has it shaved down. Or the shot of K2, Jyn and Cassian running through the area with all the troopers. That is after they have the data, because Jyn is carrying it. They are escaping the building. They made a big deal of changing a location in England to film that scene. And it isn't in the movie.

How can everything be the same if K2SO is with them, but they have the data, when in the movie, he dies before they get the data?

Krennic in the water, walking towards his ship. To leave.

They had three shots of Vader in the trailers. Vader relfected in the floor of the Death Star. Vader talking to Krennic on the Death Star, with dialogue not in the movie. And the shot of Vader on the Death Star, watching it prepare to fire.

And you think they CGI'ed hair on the Saw for the final film? Not erased, but added?

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https://www.theverge.com/2017/1/15/...ne-reshoots-disney-gareth-edwards-tony-gilroy

Bu I am sure they brought in Tony Gilroy and John Gilroy because everything was fine. What did they need another director for exactly?

 

[Grootster]

Regardless, I still have yet to hear from an official source (or even a reliable non-official source) that Gareth Edwards shot an "incoherent mess". Even if the changes and reshoots were much more extensive than usual (which I still have doubts about), saying Edwards shot an "incoherent mess" seems like a huge exaggeration unless you have a decently reliable source to back it up. I've seen no evidence to suggest that Lucasfilm views him as a poor hire.

 

[TheVileOne]

Disney was reportedly not satisfied with an early rough cut of the film when the reshoots were ordered. That came from Page Six, so take it for what it's worth.

 

[TheDreamMaster]

I feel like if Disney ever allows the cat out of the bag, there's going to be a lot of interesting history for future Star Wars fans.

- Lucas' original drafts for the sequel trilogy.
- Deleted/alternate material for Rogue One.
- Couple of different scripts for IX, including the original including Leia.
- Lord/Miller's extra takes or deleted material from their time on Han Solo.

 

[Mask&Cape]

Is it okay discuss IX here with information learned in Last Jedi?

 

[Marvolo]

This is a spoiler thread so it should be ok.