#GIVEMARGOTKIDDERASCENE! Margot Kidder is not a fan of Amy Adams’ Lois Lane in Batman

[Bats123]

ive seen that too and theyre saying that she shouldnt have been in the final battle at all because she doesn't do anything.
-Tells Bats what Martha is (which is a whole nother can of worms)
-She tries to get the spear
-????
-Cries when Superman dies

i like how she just assumes the spear will kill Doomsday, despite having no prior knowledge of it existing.
Kryptonite is such a weird thing to handle in these superman movies, but thats a whole other conversation...

 

[The Joker]

As do the haters

And in fairness it's ok to not like something but when criticsms like Lois had nothing to do in MOS in BvS are branded out they're just factually incorrect. She had plenty to do and she was integral to both stories. The haters just seem to hate on everything and go as far as to make **** up or stretch the truth further back up their hatred. It's ok to simply dislike something without having to push that dislike further.

Your definition of what is fair and good forum etiquette is hardly a yard stick to measure against when you make threads on other message boards to slag off this forum and its posters.

People have made legitimate posts explaining why they believe Lois was wasted in these movies. Your disagreement does not equate to them making things up just to hate on them further.

People are "haters" a term used to describe people who dislike something for no reason because you have separate opinions on the movie. It's such a sad an immature way to deal with people that have differing opinions than you. Are there DC haters out there? For sure. But to lump everyone who doesnt praise the movie in that tent is silly. Same with lumping every DCEU fan as a DCEU nut.
As pointed out, Steamteck you say maybe people have different opinions when someone criticizes, but then you whine about when people have something negative to say and have a differing opinion. Does it pass you how silly it is?

Lois didn't have anything of substance to do in BvS. Maybe she does in the directors cut. Screentime =/= she had a lot to do. Really what does she do the whole movie? Besides getting kidnapped, explaining Martha to Batman is, and attempting/failing to get the Kryptonite spear.
She has her investigation, which really has no bearing on the rest of the movie because Batman's beef with Superman happens regardless, Luthor still created Doomsday and gets Superman killed, the JL is still starts to get formed...those are all the main events by the conclusion of the movie and Lois didn't have any bearing on any of them. Even her investigation storyline is superfluous because Bats finds Luthor guilty for crimes too. For the screen time she's given her story doesn't lead anywhere. It's never said if her investigation gets Luthor convicted or anything
So I'm actual curious what does she do in the movie? I'm guessing i know what the reply will be because I'm a "hater"

Well said.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Well said.

Here. In case you missed my wall of text.

The Nairomi plot soured the public's perception of Superman. Some people thought he was a monster for heat visioning a bunch of rebels in the desert. And some people, rightfully, began fearing him. The story the media went with snowballed that fear into hate. And people, like Batman, started wondering if Superman were to take things into his own hands what's stopping him from burning the place down.

Lois' investigation not only cleared Superman, but went on further to prove he was setup.

What this does is frame Superman's death as a heroic sacrifice instead of an act of redemption to the public. And that's why we get the #MenAreStillGood scene in the epilogue.

Lois represented the part of humanity that refused to believe Superman was a bad guy. Granted, she has a vested interest in seeing Superman exonerated, but it's an important role she played nonetheless.

An aside of the investigation squarely pins everything on Lex. Maybe the USDJ would have gotten something on him eventually, but Lois had the "smoking gun", or in this case bullet, needed to put him away.

This is just what she did BvS. If I were to break down her significance in MoS I'd be texting on my phone all day.

Compare that to Margot Kidder in the Donner films...

 

[MadVillainy]

i like how she just assumes the spear will kill Doomsday, despite having no prior knowledge of it existing.
Kryptonite is such a weird thing to handle in these superman movies, but thats a whole other conversation...

Kryptonite is just weird in general. I hate that plot device in all media

The Nairomi plot soured the public's perception of Superman. Some people thought he was a monster for heat visioning a bunch of rebels in the desert. And some people, rightfully, began fearing him. The story the media went with snowballed that fear into hate. And people, like Batman, started wondering if Superman were to take things into his own hands what's stopping him from burning the place down.

Lois' investigation not only cleared Superman, but went on further to prove he was setup.

What this does is frame Superman's death as a heroic sacrifice instead of an act of redemption to the public. And that's why we get the #MenAreStillGood scene in the epilogue.

Lois represented the part of humanity that refused to believe Superman was a bad guy. Granted, she has a vested interest in seeing Superman exonerated, but it's an important role she played nonetheless.

An aside of the investigation squarely pins everything on Lex. Maybe the USDJ would have gotten something on him eventually, but Lois had the "smoking gun", or in this case bullet, needed to put him away.

This is just what she did BvS. If I were to break down her significance in MoS I'd be texting on my phone all day.

Compare that to Margot Kidder in the Donner films...

Lois's investigation that clears up Supes doesn't mean much by the end of the movie or even make sense by the end of the movie. The people in Nairomi were killed by bullet so why would people think Superman did it?
The movie never paints a clear picture in the TC of people distrusting Superman that that much other than news pundits. Everyone is still shown waiting for Superman to save them. Of course there are people who do but it's not that prominent. It's never shown that Lois' actions clear Superman and it's never shown that Lois' actions are why people are so sad about Superman's death. Superman's fight and sacrifice with Doomsday do that to the military and maybe other people (I forget if the fight was shown on the news). The whole investigation doesn't even get a scene culmination at the end of the story. Nothing is shown to happen with it in the TC ever.

I agree Kidder didn't have much to do in the Donner films. Ive gone on record saying that I dont like the Donner films much besides nostalgia.

Lois Lane is a great character that has been handled mediocre at best in the films.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Kryptonite is just weird in general. I hate that plot device in all media


Lois's investigation that clears up Supes doesn't mean much by the end of the movie or even make sense by the end of the movie. The people in Nairomi were killed by bullet so why would people think Superman did it?
The movie never paints a clear picture in the TC of people distrusting Superman that that much other than news pundits. Everyone is still shown waiting for Superman to save them. Of course there are people who do but it's not that prominent. It's never shown that Lois' actions clear Superman and it's never shown that Lois' actions are why people are so sad about Superman's death. Superman's fight and sacrifice with Doomsday do that to the military and maybe other people (I forget if the fight was shown on the news). The whole investigation doesn't even get a scene culmination at the end of the story. Nothing is shown to happen with it in the TC ever.

I agree Kidder didn't have much to do in the Donner films. Ive gone on record saying that I dont like the Donner films much besides nostalgia.

Lois Lane is a great character that has been handled mediocre at best in the films.

That's the problem, you're watching the Frankenstein's Monster WB Cut. Watch the real film. KGBeast torches the bodies of the guys he killed in the TC, goes on the slaughter the villagers outside the military complex, and torches those bodies too.

Superman gets blamed for it. People are scared ****less.

It's not my fault you didn't watch the real movie.

 

[Lencho01]

True but even besides that they way they handled MJ wasnt good. All she was was a damsel in distress that Spidey had to save. Also her personality was weak.
I think Peggy Carter, and I dont love the character like some do, is actually a good love interest that has something to do/a purpose (she is a soldier after all), isn't a damsel, and the reason she falls in love with Steve is believable. But even then, that whole arc she had about being mad at Cap for kissing Natalie Dormer was stupid.

For me a good love interest would: 1) have relevance to the plot besides being someone the hero wants to smash 2) isn't a damsel 3) actually is a good character in his/her own right. 4) and then on top of that the love story is believable. Honestly I'd settle for 3 of those, but it's rare in not just SH movies but blockbusters in general.

EDIT: I forgot to have that the love interest should actually have chemistry with the hero

Yeah, I hear ya. I was mostly talking about the stuff that had nothing to do with the superheroics. So, I feel Peter and MJ's journey was more interesting to watch than other couples, who tend to just end up together simply because they're the male and female leads. I even enjoyed it more than Peter and Gwen in the ASM films.

I think the major problem with these films is that they try to put them together in one film on top of all the other things going on in the film. Like if they were straight up romantic films or romcoms, it would be less of an issue since the characters ending up together is the main focus.

 

[MadVillainy]

That's the problem, you're watching the Frankenstein's Monster WB Cut. Watch the real film. KGBeast torches the bodies of the guys he killed in the TC, goes on the slaughter the villagers outside the military complex, and torches those bodies too.

Superman gets blamed for it. People are scared ****less.

It's not my fault you didn't watch the real movie.

If they didnt want people to watch the "fake" film they should have released it in theaters

And i have very little desire to watch the UC. Im not doubting it flows better and improves things, but a lot of my core issues, from what Ive read will remain. I dont feel like watching a UC for a movie I already didn't like the TC of. The funny thing is if I go watch the UC, say I don't like it, it's all going to be: "Nyah, you wanted to hate it".

 

[MadVillainy]

Yeah, I hear ya. I was mostly talking about the stuff that had nothing to do with the superheroics. So, I feel Peter and MJ's journey was more interesting to watch than other couples, who tend to just end up together simply because they're the male and female leads. I even enjoyed it more than Peter and Gwen in the ASM films.

I think the major problem with these films is that they try to put them together in one film on top of all the other things going on in the film. Like if they were straight up romantic films or romcoms, it would be less of an issue since the characters ending up together is the main focus.

Agreed with bolded.


I actually didnt like Peter and Gwen in the TASM. I thought there chemistry was forced...which is weird since they were dating in real life

 

[BlueLanternKal]

If they didnt want people to watch the "fake" film they should have released it in theaters

And the funny thing is if I go watch the UC, say I don't like it, it's all going to be: "Nyah, you wanted to hate it".

I agree, but what're you going to do? They choked because they thought a 3 hour film wouldn't make money. WB is in the business of selling art, not making it. The latter is on the film makers.

Nah, not really. You're acting like I'm trying to convert you or something. All I'm doing is using what's within the film to back up my argument. If you don't like it it's within your right, but that doesn't mean my argument is invalid especially since I'm backing it up with material within the film.

 

[The Joker]

Kryptonite is just weird in general. I hate that plot device in all media


Lois's investigation that clears up Supes doesn't mean much by the end of the movie or even make sense by the end of the movie. The people in Nairomi were killed by bullet so why would people think Superman did it?
The movie never paints a clear picture in the TC of people distrusting Superman that that much other than news pundits. Everyone is still shown waiting for Superman to save them. Of course there are people who do but it's not that prominent. It's never shown that Lois' actions clear Superman and it's never shown that Lois' actions are why people are so sad about Superman's death. Superman's fight and sacrifice with Doomsday do that to the military and maybe other people (I forget if the fight was shown on the news). The whole investigation doesn't even get a scene culmination at the end of the story. Nothing is shown to happen with it in the TC ever.

Well said.

 

[MadVillainy]

I agree, but what're you going to do? They choked because they thought a 3 hour film wouldn't make money. WB is in the business of selling art, not making it. The latter is on the film makers.

Nah, not really. You're acting like I'm trying to convert you or something. All I'm doing is using what's within the film to back up my argument. If you don't like it it's within your right, but that doesn't mean my argument is invalid especially since I'm backing it up with material within the film.

I never said that your argument was invalid.

 

[Lencho01]

Agreed with bolded.


I actually didnt like Peter and Gwen in the TASM. I thought there chemistry was forced...which is weird since they were dating in real life

There was a rumor that at some point, Sony was trying to make their new Spidey for cheap by focusing more on the Peter stuff than Spidey and copy the success of the Twilight films. Since it's Sony, I can buy it.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

The Nairomi plot soured the public's perception of Superman. Some people thought he was a monster for heat visioning a bunch of rebels in the desert. And some people, rightfully, began fearing him. The story the media went with snowballed that fear into hate. And people, like Batman, started wondering if Superman were to take things into his own hands what's stopping him from burning the place down.

Lois' investigation not only cleared Superman, but went on further to prove he was setup.

What this does is frame Superman's death as a heroic sacrifice instead of an act of redemption to the public. And that's why we get the #MenAreStillGood scene in the epilogue.

Lois represented the part of humanity that refused to believe Superman was a bad guy. Granted, she has a vested interest in seeing Superman exonerated, but it's an important role she played nonetheless.

An aside of the investigation squarely pins everything on Lex. Maybe the USDJ would have gotten something on him eventually, but Lois had the "smoking gun", or in this case bullet, needed to put him away.

This is just what she did BvS. If I were to break down her significance in MoS I'd be texting on my phone all day.

Compare that to Margot Kidder in the Donner films...

great post.

 

[Flint Marko]

There was a rumor that at some point, Sony was trying to make their new Spidey for cheap by focusing more on the Peter stuff than Spidey and copy the success of the Twilight films. Since it's Sony, I can buy it.

I think that was confirmed. From what I understand they felt confident enough in the dailys that they bumped up the budget to allow for bigger scale action.
Anyways, not on topic, but I just wanted to let you know that this was indeed the case.

 

[Lencho01]

I think that was confirmed. From what I understand they felt confident enough in the dailys that they bumped up the budget to allow for bigger scale action.
Anyways, not on topic, but I just wanted to let you know that this was indeed the case.

Oh, ok. Cool.

But, to the topic at hand, I don't really see much improvement on how Lois has been used thus far in the future.

 

[hellified]

Stan Lee Offers Himself Up For A Cameo In A DC Movie

wow...

 

[Vchipp]

Just adding my two cents into the topic without reading the 5 pages, she is right thought Amy Adams's Lois didn't really do much in the two movies especially in BvS

 

[dc_mos]

Just adding my two cents into the topic without reading the 5 pages, she is right thought Amy Adams's Lois didn't really do much in the two movies especially in BvS

 

[SuperAl]

Her Lois Lane was kind of an idiot so not sure why shes complaining about this interpretation. Unless she wants this Lois to sit in a room trying to interview supes while he does a wardrobe change 8 times.

id prefer not to see her botoxed face in a future film. I think i saw enough of her paralyzed upper lip in Smallville.

 

[The Joker]

id prefer not to see her botoxed face in a future film. I think i saw enough of her paralyzed upper lip in Smallville.

Wow you people are real class acts.

 

[Bats123]

Wow you people are real class acts.

Didnt you hear? you're not allowed to disagree with anyone over the internet, if anyone shares a different opinion than yours you have to insult them like a pubescent child.

 

[az824]

I think that was confirmed. From what I understand they felt confident enough in the dailys that they bumped up the budget to allow for bigger scale action.
Anyways, not on topic, but I just wanted to let you know that this was indeed the case.

I understand and respect your right not to like these movies or the DCEU in general. But why do you go so far out of your way to make your opinion heard. I can't go a few posts without seeing you hating on the movie and the DCEU. If you don't like it WHY are you even on this!? It makes no sense.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

She spent most of the film figuring out what the audience already knew, and then had to be saved a bunch. "Wasted" seems like an apt description.

In addition she mostly kept what she learned to herself. There were 2x that I can think of where Lois has info for her boyfriend about what the deal is and what all has been going on and she drops the ball. She tried to tell him on the balcony then turns into his cheerleader again pepping him up to be Superman.
Then after Lex tries to kill her she doesn't tell Clark what Lex just told her she just kisses him.

I have many issues with Lois in these films, but with that being said she had more to do than Margot did in her movies.

geez its just one scene dude.. a stan lee-esqe walk on say a couple lines so the audience can go and move on..no one is saying make her an intergral part of the franchise

No

Lois and Clark in the DCEU have no chemistry. Amy Adams displays absolutely none of Lois' headstrong and quickwitted qualities. She is just Amy Adams.

Glad to see I'm not alone.

 

[Supa]

Yeah, I mean Lois does plenty in terms of plot, but she does nothing in terms of character. Amy Adams is a good actor, and I don't think she's done anything to show it in these films. In both Man of Steel and BvS she's basically just a tool for exposition. We need someone on the military plane to stop the World Engine while Superman is busy. Stick Lois in there. We need to let the audience in on Luthor's plan. Stick Lois in there. We need the Kryptonite spear back. Stick Lois in there.

And obviously characters need to be important to the plot, but they need to be characters as well, and so far we've seen people criticizing Lois for being in places simply for the plot to move foward, not because it makes sense. Really, the Kryptonians want to bring this reporter on their ship? The military wants to bring her into a disaster area? How does she even know Doomsday would be hurt by the Kryptonite spear?

Her only character is she's a reporter and she loves Superman, which is such a barebones description of Lois. It's like describing Batman as someone who puts on tights and beats up criminals or Captain America as someone who took some superhero drugs and got a frisbee shield. Yeah it's technically true, but there's no nuance or depth to it. And no, this isn't in defense of any other live action Lois.

 

[Superchan]

I really liked Lois's portrayal in MOS and I thought Amy was a fantastic casting choice although her inclusion in the final action set piece just so she could 'push the button' and activate kal's space ship was totally unnecessary and came off as a blatant attempt to give lois something to do for the movie's finale.

Lois in BvS was another story entirely; they gave her plenty to do but sadly it amounted to very little and she ended up being the movie's damsel IMO.
I'm hoping this will be corrected with the next superman solo.