Has anyone ever lost a dispute with a buyer on ebay when you have been in the right?

[union_jak]

Like the title says: Has anyone ever lost a dispute when you have been in the right (ie you have genuinely sent an item but the buyer demands a refund)?

To cut a long story short, an item I sold to a buyer was sent out about 10 days ago - sent internationally but without tracking because that option isn't available from the UK, unlike with USPS etc. When the auction ended (which was back in early to mid May) the buyer took 3 weeks or more to pay, even after repeated promises and apologies, and didn't always respond to communication.

He sent me a message asking where his item was only over a week ago (i hadn't immediately sent it out but waited about a week because I was busy and also because he wasn't so quick to pay). However I did send it out as soon as he messaged me. Now he has opened a dispute with ebay and is demanding a full refund saying he has never received the item.

I have 100% feedback while he has lots of negative feedback. Now I don't know whether the item has genuinely been lost in the mail or whether it's still being delivered and he needs to wait longer but certainly 10 days isn't a reasonable time. I've never had complaints before of this nature, and even if I did, if it were something I could replace easily, then I would send a replacement, but in this case I can't since it is a single item.

The result of the dispute hasn't been decided yet and I haven't actually lost anything at this point, but i am concerned. If he were to receive the refund and the case were to go in his favour, that would be grossly unfair to me as I've already sent the item and I would lose any payment for that too.

I know ebay seems to ask in these disputes for evidence of tracking, which I wouldn't be able to provide, but I do have a certificate of posting, which may not be much, but is at least something. However, if I were to lose simply because of lack of evidence while the buyer is allowed to get both the item and his refund because he is fraudulent, then that would be a complete injustice.

Also, what if the buyer simply hasn't given a reasonable time but is too quick to open the dispute, and the item subsequently arrives after he is awarded the refund? I'm sure he wouldn't come clean and say that the item has arrived and that he wants to refund the refund. So what course of action is there for me?

Any ideas? Or what are your experiences of this sort of thing? Thanks.

I am going through an identical situation right now. It's actually quite freaky how I could have written the same thing. Last week Paypal chose in the other guys favour, despite me providing a certificate of postage, and the buyer never once contacting me.

Sorry to break it to you, but I can already predict what they'll decide. They said they'll always choose the buyers side over the seller as it's the sellers responsibility to get tracking. All I can do now is get compensation from Royal Mail. If they can confirm that it was actually sent, I guess I'll have to go back to Paypal and state this.

In the end, the buyer is more than likely to receive the item AND get a nice little refund, and it's massively unlikely they'll return the payment. I sent my buyer an email asking them to do the decent thing when the parcel turns up... and still no response.

My lesson learnt is that it's simply not worth selling overseas and I'll clearly state this on my future listings.

 

[Duke]

It's most unfortunate that there are a lot of legitmate good buyers & sellers who do want to make transactions, but is ruined by scam artists wanting to make a quick buck.

 

[Dark Raven]

I am going through an identical situation right now. It's actually quite freaky how I could have written the same thing. Last week Paypal chose in the other guys favour, despite me providing a certificate of postage, and the buyer never once contacting me.

Sorry to break it to you, but I can already predict what they'll decide. They said they'll always choose the buyers side over the seller as it's the sellers responsibility to get tracking. All I can do now is get compensation from Royal Mail. If they can confirm that it was actually sent, I guess I'll have to go back to Paypal and state this.

In the end, the buyer is more than likely to receive the item AND get a nice little refund, and it's massively unlikely they'll return the payment. I sent my buyer an email asking them to do the decent thing when the parcel turns up... and still no response.

My lesson learnt is that it's simply not worth selling overseas and I'll clearly state this on my future listings.

That is very discouraging to hear. How is one supposed to get confirmation from Royal Mail that it was actually sent? Isn't that what certificate of posting is meant to show? The thing is that tracking isn't something common for Royal Mail with most things sent. What is the process for getting confirmation?

As for selling overseas, if I didn't do that, then I wouldn't sell at all on ebay, since virtually all my sales are international transactions.

 

[union_jak]

That is very discouraging to hear. How is one supposed to get confirmation from Royal Mail that it was actually sent? Isn't that what certificate of posting is meant to show? The thing is that tracking isn't something common for Royal Mail with most things sent. What is the process for getting confirmation?

As for selling overseas, if I didn't do that, then I wouldn't sell at all on ebay, since virtually all my sales are international transactions.

When my buyer launched the dispute (bear in mind he didn't once inform me that he didn't receive the goods), they took a couple of months to assess the case. Paypal told me they didn't require anything from me, although I still scanned in my certificate of posting.

They could see from the postage payment that I hadn't paid for tracking, and as far as they were concerned, the certificate of posting proves I sent it, but not that he received it. Believe me, I spent 20 minutes on the phone to Paypal arguing my case but they get it all the time and always go with the buyer.

I guess in future you'll have to insist on buyers paying the (huge) extra and getting tracking on all shipping. You wouldn't be able to use Royal Mail, but I suppose you'll have to state all this on your listings.

Keep hold of your certificate as you'll need to send it to Royal Mail when you have to go down the compensation route. Good luck.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

If you shipped to Canada, the post offices are on strike.

 

[ComicChick]

You seem to be living under the false assumption that everyone is as trustful as you are. I made that mistake too...as I explained. Never again. I have sold an item for $9000 on ebay. You bet your ass I got that crap a tracking number. I make about $5-10k a year on ebay as a side job. Let me tell you that tracking is IMPORTANT.

really? what in the world did you sell?

 

[ComicChick]

i recently sold a phone on ebay. it was virtually new from t-mobile as it was sent to me as a replacement phone. i had also upgraded so i used the phone for a little over a week waiting for my upgrade to come in the mail.

i listed the phone in EXACT condition, explained all of the above, posted actually pictures of it and everything. well when it sold, i made a nice profit on it. dude paid me about midnight that night (or course post office was closed), the next day was sunday, and on monday he sent me a message wanting to know where the phone was. like really?

when he got it he said he wanted a refund cuz it wasn't brand new. i had also mentioned in the description i only wanted paypal, no international shipping, no refunds to cover all my bases. so he left a negative feedback because of this. the item he got is exactly what was mentioned and i basically can't do anything about it nor can i write how horrible of a buyer he was on his feedback. he only has a rating of 1 for the record. i just didn't leave a feedback at all since i couldn't answer honestly.

 

[Ponyboy]

I buy quite a bit of collectibles from ebay as I have no way to get them locally. 90% of the time I have a good experience. The worst is when i finally get something and it's not as described. Having to return something to America, or the UK is such a pain.

 

[Duke]

Tell me about it! I avoid buying stuff from overseas because of all the hassle. There are somethings that have tempted me though.

 

[Ponyboy]

haha, well I have no choice. The majority of the stuff I buy comes from America and tends to be solid. I just make sure I always ask the seller about condition and get them to respond saying the item is "mint" or like new, whatever. That way I have that as a backup. I have ordered things that arrived, and clearly there was no damage during posting... and yet the item isn't new. Happened to me about 2 months ago when I bought a Batman poster... the auction said "Near mint" and it had some of the worst crinkling I'd ever seen. The poster tube itself had not a knick on it

 

[Dark Raven]

Just to update you on the situation. Ebay actually decided in my favour and decided not to issue the buyer a refund, saying I don't have to take any further action. I am truly amazed after all the discouraging reports here, because I never thought I would win and that justice would prevail. It was virtually impossible odds from what everyone described here, so I am very pleasantly surprised. It would've been a complete injustice if the result had gone the other way, but I had almost come to accept that this would be the case.

EDIT: One of the eBay comments listed says that "The buyer didn't pay for the item before opening the case". I guess this means that he definitely was scamming and trying to recover his money even before there was the chance for the item to be sent out or even arrive. What do people think?

 

[chaseter]

really? what in the world did you sell?

Art prints. I bought them for $3500 and sold them for 9k but I made a nice 5k profit. You have no idea how proud I was for that.

 

[B]

Like the title says: Has anyone ever lost a dispute when you have been in the right (ie you have genuinely sent an item but the buyer demands a refund)?

To cut a long story short, an item I sold to a buyer was sent out about 10 days ago - sent internationally but without tracking because that option isn't available from the UK, unlike with USPS etc. When the auction ended (which was back in early to mid May) the buyer took 3 weeks or more to pay, even after repeated promises and apologies, and didn't always respond to communication.

He sent me a message asking where his item was only over a week ago (i hadn't immediately sent it out but waited about a week because I was busy and also because he wasn't so quick to pay). However I did send it out as soon as he messaged me. Now he has opened a dispute with ebay and is demanding a full refund saying he has never received the item.

I have 100% feedback while he has lots of negative feedback. Now I don't know whether the item has genuinely been lost in the mail or whether it's still being delivered and he needs to wait longer but certainly 10 days isn't a reasonable time. I've never had complaints before of this nature, and even if I did, if it were something I could replace easily, then I would send a replacement, but in this case I can't since it is a single item.

The result of the dispute hasn't been decided yet and I haven't actually lost anything at this point, but i am concerned. If he were to receive the refund and the case were to go in his favour, that would be grossly unfair to me as I've already sent the item and I would lose any payment for that too.

I know ebay seems to ask in these disputes for evidence of tracking, which I wouldn't be able to provide, but I do have a certificate of posting, which may not be much, but is at least something. However, if I were to lose simply because of lack of evidence while the buyer is allowed to get both the item and his refund because he is fraudulent, then that would be a complete injustice.

Also, what if the buyer simply hasn't given a reasonable time but is too quick to open the dispute, and the item subsequently arrives after he is awarded the refund? I'm sure he wouldn't come clean and say that the item has arrived and that he wants to refund the refund. So what course of action is there for me?

Any ideas? Or what are your experiences of this sort of thing? Thanks.

Royal Mail Airsure

Royal Mail International Signed For

2 Internationally tracked services provided by the premiere postage service in the UK, not to mention there are several other companies capable of offering such a service in the UK.

Anyway, I have had experience with a similar issue (although not with ebay) in which I needed to send important documents abroad to a company before a certain date otherwise I'd have entered into a contract with them. Anyway long story short, they said they'd never recieved the documents & I said I had proof of postage, scanned the recept (it wasn't tracked) & conveniently the documents somehow managed to grow legs & run that little bit faster & it arrived the next day, 21 days after I had sent it.. alledgedlly.

10 days, I assume that is basically Monday to Wednesday, is not enough time for something that has been sent standard from UK to the US. The minimum waiting time is 12 working days I believe. Which in actual fact is nearly 3 weeks considering Monday - Friday are the only working days.

Now all you will need to provide ebay is your proof of postage, that is it. I have no idea how ebay will resolve such a case considering you have proof of postage on a non-tracked item & all he has is his word that it hasn't arrived.. however if indeed ebay did resolve the case in the bidders favour, you need to get onto whichever company you have sent the item with & find out how you can make a claim for lost mail/parcel so you will at least not lose any money if this person is trying to scam you out of an expensive item.

However make sure that ebay is made full aware that you have proof of postage & that 10 days, only 8 of which are working days, is not enough time to allow an international item to arrive. Also make them well aware that payment for the item was over 3 weeks after the auction had ended.

Good luck, let us know how things are going. It's ridiculous that he took 3 weeks to pay for the item & then expects it to be with him inside 10 days.

How expensive was the item/parcel if you don't mind me asking?





EDIT - Nevermind, I've just read further down & see that this issue is already resolved...


DO'H

 

[ComicChick]

Art prints. I bought them for $3500 and sold them for 9k but I made a nice 5k profit. You have no idea how proud I was for that.

was it those Mondo Tees one? i'd definitely like to have a turnaround in profit like that on something

 

[Dark Raven]

I see everyone's been quick to give me advice and tell me the negatives, but when I post the (unexpected) resolution to this issue above that goes virtually unnoticed. I guess people do only notice bad news.

 

[ComicChick]

im glad your resolution went your way

i wish there was a way to remove the negative feedback someone left on mine for no other reason than they didn't read the item description and follow directions. so now my 100% is gone

 

[union_jak]

Yesterday I received a cheque from Royal Mail for compensation covering the total costs of the item they lost, so I guess it's good news all round.