Has Marvel made an outright "bad" movie?

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^Exactly. She was the mastermind in the comic arc that the movie was loosely based on (whereas Killian showed up for like a page, if that). And it seemed like they might have been setting that up early on (the flashback scene at the beginning specifically). But then it gets dropped in favor of the Killian stuff.

Shame really as I loved the Extremis TPB.

 

[TheVileOne]

I actually prefer IM2 myself. It's a bit better paced, it holds together more as a movie, and the comedy works a bit better. Oh and also fewer plot holes, and no hamfisted "twist" either, that helps to.

Just as an aside, I still maintain that if they needed to do a twist with the villains, then making Maya Hansen the true mastermind would have not only been more interesting, but made more logical sense overall.

And, to give Shane Black some credit, that apparently originally was his intent before a higher-up at Marvel coughIkePerlmuttercough vetoed the idea for stupid reasons.

I wanted Madame Masque. If it turned out that way, IMHO would've been awesome.

 

[NHawk19]

I tend to flip flop about which one I like better. It was IM2 but after a recent re-watch of both I found I enjoyed IM3 more.

The thing about IM2 that's interesting though is that what came after it made the movie better, and make more sense. It moved the overall MCU narrative in a way that IM 3 just didn't.

In fact, IM3 just sort of fell off the face of the planet until a mention in CW about Tony blowing his suits up. Even then we don't really see how the events tie in.

The key films to follow the narrative are IM1-2, Thor 1, Cap1-3, Avengers 1, Ant-man, Dr. S, and GotG.

That's not to say the others are bad but they don't contribute anything that isn't explained elsewhere. Even the explanation of the stones were in both GotG and AoU.

 

[First Avenger]

Age of Ultron follows Tony's paranoia and desire to get rid of suits of armor directly from IM3 though.

 

[NHawk19]

^ Not really because he's right back in the suit at the beginning of the movie when they take the Hydra base. You can pretty muck skip IM3 and not miss anything because Tony's control issues can be pretty much traced back to Avengers.

There's no real PTSD revelations until CW when he gets confronted about Sokovia at the elevator.

 

[Loki882]

I never interpreted the ending of IM3 as meaning Tony was retiring for good (and I was puzzled that so many other people did honestly). I interpreted it as him realizing that he didn't always need the suits to be a hero. They're just a tool, he's the important part. Going by that, his wanting to create Ultron, and his motives for doing so, fit in with his arc in IM3 nicely. And I think that that's the take that Whedon went with.

But then CW rolls around and The Russo's seemed to take the stance that he WAS really retiring for good at the end of IM3 (which is the explanation for Pepper leaving him), which messes that all up.

 

[NHawk19]

^ I actually agree. I didn't think he was walking away entirely but that he was trying to bring his paranoia and need to control everything back in check. This goes counter to his actions in AoU which show his need to control world peace by creating Ultron.

Also I think your first interpretation is further hinted at in the SM H trailers where he mentions something to Pete about needing the suit indicating he's not a real hero.

 

[Smurphftw]

I voted (hell) no. I've enjoyed every Marvel movie. IM3 is at the bottom for me and I still rather liked it. I also seem to like IM2, and TDW more than most on this thread.

 

[Solaire]

Never noticed the poll so just voted. Surprised at the amount of yes votes though. I've seen bad movies and facepalmed and groaned during them. Don't think I've ever done that with a Marvel film. Like I have no desire to see any of the other transformers films because Extinction was just the worst.

 

[C-3PO]

^ I actually agree. I didn't think he was walking away entirely but that he was trying to bring his paranoia and need to control everything back in check. This goes counter to his actions in AoU which show his need to control world peace by creating Ultron.

Also I think your first interpretation is further hinted at in the SM H trailers where he mentions something to Pete about needing the suit indicating he's not a real hero.

"If you're nothing without this suit, then you shouldn't have it."

 

[Ultimate Movie-Man]

Yes. Iron Man 2, Captain America The First Avenger, Avengers 1 and 2, Captain America the Winter Soldier, Ant-Man, Guardians of the Galaxy 2.

Pretty much everything from Iron Man 2 onwards really bar Guardians of the Galaxy

 

[First Avenger]

Yes. Iron Man 2, Captain America The First Avenger, Avengers 1 and 2, Captain America the Winter Soldier, Ant-Man, Guardians of the Galaxy 2.

Pretty much everything from Iron Man 2 onwards really bar Guardians of the Galaxy

Lol

 

[Ultimate Movie-Man]

Lol

lmao

 

[metaphysician]

Yes. Iron Man 2, Captain America The First Avenger, Avengers 1 and 2, Captain America the Winter Soldier, Ant-Man, Guardians of the Galaxy 2.

Pretty much everything from Iron Man 2 onwards really bar Guardians of the Galaxy

Your definition of "bad" is broad to the point of being laughably useless.

 

[Zarex]

I can certainly understand why a fan of the Transformers franchise, the Snyder oeuvre and FFINO wouldn't care for the MCU films.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

After GOTG2, the answer is still "no." While I have said I thought GOTG2 would be a step back from the original and it managed to surprise me how good it actually was, I never expected it to be bad.

Next we have the real test. I have more reservations about Spider-Man: Homecoming than I have any MCU film since Ant-Man.

 

[GeckoMoria]

Yes. Iron Man 2, Captain America The First Avenger, Avengers 1 and 2, Captain America the Winter Soldier, Ant-Man, Guardians of the Galaxy 2.

Pretty much everything from Iron Man 2 onwards really bar Guardians of the Galaxy

You got to be kidding me right now

 

[First Avenger]

After GOTG2, the answer is still "no." While I have said I thought GOTG2 would be a step back from the original and it managed to surprise me how good it actually was, I never expected it to be bad.

Next we have the real test. I have more reservations about Spider-Man: Homecoming than I have any MCU film since Ant-Man.

I'm worried about Spidey too. Mostly because Marvel Studios had to deal with Sony for this one.

 

[ADollarADay]

I'm not worried about spiderman, it's gonna be better than ThorW for sure and that movie was better than most other CBMs out there. I'm more worried about BP at the box office, to be honest. It'll be a great movie. Ryan Coogler is majorly talented. However, I can't remember a non Will Smith/Sam Jackson black led movie that made bank overseas. China even hid Finn from SW TFA poster (as did Italy IIRC).

 

[Zarex]

I think the fact that BP is an African hero rather than African-American should help with its overseas totals. Folks of Sub-Saharan African descent make up a sizable chunk of the world's population, and T'Challa is going to be doing quite a bit of globe hopping in his origin film as well, including South Korea. That should help to bring in non-US BO dollars.

Domestically, Black Panther should do big numbers - my guess is $225M plus. The film has got the MCU branding, a character who really "popped" in his first onscreen outing, a crapload of star power, and an audience who is really looking forward to seeing more of Boseman. Also, movies with black stars like Straight Outta Compton, Hidden Figures, Get Out and Moonlight have all had success recently. I'm not worried about BP.

 

[GeckoMoria]

You can't do some of your best characters justice if you are constantly afraid how the world will react to a minority of a woman headlining a film. That was Pelmutter's way of thinking all those years.

Marvel is one of the biggest brands in the world. If they want to make the first blockbuster with almost completely black actors they should because this is how you change perceptions about things.

Black Panther will do fine. More than fine. It has the Marvel brand backing it up and most people saw Boseman in CW anyway.

 

[Loki882]

Yeah if any company should have the balls to just go ahead and go for it at this point, it's Marvel.

 

[Leenie]

I have not flat-out disliked a single movie that Marvel Studios has made so far.

Does that mean all of their movies have been "out of the park home runs" for me? Absolutely not.

 

[Grootster]

If we're talking about just the current Marvel series, I'd say no. Even at their worst, they're still leagues above a lot of the other movies being made right now. It's amazing to me that Marvel makes two or three movies a year and they range anywhere from absolutely amazing to "meh" at the very worst, and a franchise like Transformers makes a movie every two or three years and they still have yet to make a good one that pleases the majority of the fanbase or the general public.

 

[LaughterLives]

I know its not a popular opinion but I thought the first Guardians of the Galaxy movie was terrible. Its only redeeming factor was Draxx and the movie's soundtrack. Other than that I didn't find it entertaining, it was very corny, and the action looked so staged it made me cringe.
I also think the first 2 Captain America movies are pretty bad but none of them were as bad as GotG.
Volume 2 was a major improvement.