I'm Reading Your Stuff: General News and Discussion Thread

[SwordOfMorning]

I'm pretty cynical about what's going on BTS at DC but Supergirl and The Batman, Part II both have equal amounts of information that has been dropped about them. Supergirl's was just more recent and Gunn is a cloying hypeman in a way Reeves is not.

 

[flickchick85]

Just to repeat for those who are just joining us:

THE UPFRONTS ARE A PRESENTATION FOR ADVERTISERS. THEY ARE PRIMARILY FOR TV. SUPERMAN WAS ONLY MENTIONED FOR SPONSORSHIP DEALS. THE BATMAN NOT BEING MENTIONED THERE MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk!

 

[solidsnake86]

Normally I would agree, but there was a whole article on deadline and his involvement in the batman wasn't even mentioned.

I hate to say this but I think something is going on.

Even that whole Arkham series going to the DCU, something is off, we truly don't know what's going on behind the scenes.

Truthfully, when they announced that there would be 2 batman movies, the 2023 superhero box office hadn't happened yet. Anyone looking at the outcome of a movie like the Marvels, which was a sequel to a billion dollar movie, and the rest of the comic book movie output crashing out would have good reason to be spooked. Even guardians 3 had absymal tracking and legged it out because it was a good movie but it shows that there is no guarantee and sometimes decent won't get you box office money.

 

[Invader Joker]

Normally I would agree, but there was a whole article on deadline and his involvement in the batman wasn't even mentioned.


I hate to say this but I think something is going on.

What article are you talking about?
And yes, there is something going on: Matt Reeves being a slow writer. Did everyone forget the radio silence there was for a full 2 years from when Reeves was first signed on to The Batman to when we heard news about it?

 

[Venom 1988]

I haven't been following all the Upfronts news but were any DC shows brought up? I know The Penguin and Creature Commandos are still set for this year. Waller was previously announced for 2024 but I doubt that's still happening since they haven't even started production for it. Maybe 2025.

 

[emielaen]

We don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes so obviously it’s canceled. Pack this thread up mods. We’re done here.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Why do people think an article about Gollum would talk about Batman? It’s of zero relevance to the articles subject matter that Serkis is in another movie in a similar time frame (possibly very briefly if it’s a similar role to the first movie).

 

[flickchick85]

Serkis is gonna be like the 5th-billed (or lower) player in Part II. It will not take up a lot of his time, and it does not need to be mentioned in any article talking about another project in which he plays a bigger role.

 

[Eddie Dean]

my precious

 

[Mindreaper21]

Honestly, I don’t mind Alfred having a smaller role this time. Since this is more of a detective series, it makes more sense for Batman to be working more with Gordon. Batman can spend more time communicating with Alfred through his comms link.

 

[Invader Joker]

Taking into account we now know it took Matt a full 2 years to write the first one (and he was still writing in the middle of pre production) there is a funny/tragic scenario here where it takes him the same amount to write the second one (meaning it wouldn't be done until February 2025) and since DC Studios policy is to not start on anything until the scripts are done, the film gets delayed again because of it.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Taking into account we now know it took Matt a full 2 years to write the first one (and he was still writing in the middle of pre production) there is a funny/tragic scenario here where it takes him the same amount to write the second one (meaning it wouldn't be done until February 2025) and since DC Studios policy is to not start on anything until the scripts are done, the film gets delayed again because of it.

I suspect Matt Reeves gets more leeway/independence on things like that. They're not going to say that publicly but it feels rational to assume a director who has actual sway/power isn't going to be as subject to mandates as the journeymen randos Gunn is wrangling.

 

[Invader Joker]

I suspect Matt Reeves gets more leeway/independence on things like that. They're not going to say that publicly but it feels rational to assume a director who has actual sway/power isn't going to be as subject to mandates as the journeymen randos Gunn is wrangling.

I'll be honest the way he works I think that left to his own devices he'd happily take even more time lol

 

[Invader Joker]

THE BATMAN PART 2
	START	DONE
WRITING (PRE-STRIKE)	September 1, 2022​	May 1, 2023​	8​
WRITING (POST-STRIKE)	October 1, 2023​	February 1, 2025​	2 YEARS OF WRITING-SAME AS THE BATMAN
PRE-PRODUCTION	February 1, 2025​	October 1, 2025​	8 MONTHS OF PRE-PRODUCTION-SAME AS THE BATMAN
FILMING	October 1, 2025​	April 1, 2026​	6 MONTHS OF FILMING-SAME AS THE BATMAN
RELEASE DATE RANGE		April 1, 2027​	12 MONTHS OF POST-SAME AS THE BATMAN (POST PANDEMIC)

Here's a chart of how that scenario could happen. I like to think it won't happen but by god he's slow.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I'll be honest the way he works I think that left to his own devices he'd happily take even more time lol

Oh, no doubt lol. That being said: I maintain that people somewhat exaggerate Reeves slowness. It seems fairly obvious to me that early days of The Batman had more back and forth with Affleck than is publicly known and then COVID pushed it back a year. Part II was going to come out a fairly normal three and a half years after the first movie then the strikes derailed it. While he is slower than most this series has also been plagued with ill fortune that exacerbates it.

 

[Invader Joker]

Oh, no doubt lol. That being said: I maintain that people somewhat exaggerate Reeves slowness. It seems fairly obvious to me that early days of The Batman had more back and forth with Affleck than is publicly known and then COVID pushed it back a year. Part II was going to come out a fairly normal three and a half years after the first movie then the strikes derailed it. While he is slower than most this series has also been plagued with ill fortune that exacerbates it.

Well, I'm exclusively talking about screenwriting here. And we do have extremely good documentation for how long it took him to write The Batman due to Mattson's interviews and the stupid BatmanGate lawsuit. He began writing in fall of 2017 (and I think by then the Affleck question was mostly settled) and finished in October of 2019, so it's indeed quite a bit of time.


Also yeah the strike contributed but despite that he's really slow. By now he's been writing the movie for over a year, even accounting for the strike, and it's still not done, so who knows when it will be done.

I'm also thinking... could it be that maybe writing the sequel for him has been more complicated than writing the first one? One of the reasons he explained he didn't want to be in a connected universe was because he would have a really hard time figuring out how to do a Batman film, which is already a hard task, while also figuring out how it connects to everything else and being a part of a larger narrative. So I kinda wonder if he's ran into his own version of that with this mini-universe he has with The Batman lol Figuring out how to do a cool Batman movie that's also a sequel that lives up and improves upon the last one while also figuring out how it balances with whatever stuff is in The Penguin.

 

[solidsnake86]

I'm also thinking... could it be that maybe writing the sequel for him has been more complicated than writing the first one? One of the reasons he explained he didn't want to be in a connected universe was because he would have a really hard time figuring out how to do a Batman film, which is already a hard task, while also figuring out how it connects to everything else and being a part of a larger narrative. So I kinda wonder if he's ran into his own version of that with this mini-universe he has with The Batman lol Figuring out how to do a cool Batman movie that's also a sequel that lives up and improves upon the last one while also figuring out how it balances with whatever stuff is in The Penguin.

That is entirely possible and I think a likely reason for the time it's taking. Also, with something like the penguin, it's obviously written in advance and you can follow the scripts in order to write the sequel, but I'm sure you want to see rough cuts of the filmed version as things change in production and things that worked in the script may not work when it was filmed.

I also seem to recall that there was a comment when he wrote the first one that it got really big in terms of the universe and he had to cut back.

Also, regardless if true or not, some of the trades reported on villain dedicated movies, so at some point he was thinking about this large universe and either had ideas or was hearing pitches for different things.

 

[Invader Joker]

That is entirely possible and I think a likely reason for the time it's taking. Also, with something like the penguin, it's obviously written in advance and you can follow the scripts in order to write the sequel, but I'm sure you want to see rough cuts of the filmed version as things change in production and things that worked in the script may not work when it was filmed.

I also seem to recall that there was a comment when he wrote the first one that it got really big in terms of the universe and he had to cut back.

Also, regardless if true or not, some of the trades reported on villain dedicated movies, so at some point he was thinking about this large universe and either had ideas or was hearing pitches for different things.

Yeah, that's why even tho I don't think there's any chance in hell the movie actually gets cancelled unless something really tragic happens, I'm also not 100% on them even making this delayed release date lmao It already took him 2 years to write the first one and in some ways writing the second one seems even more complicated. I think there are a lot more ways to screw up the sequel than there was to screw up the first one.

 

[Invader Joker]

Saw this interview pop up where Rob talked about how he wanted to see more supernatural/fantastical elements in the sequels and it kinda got me thinking...

I wonder if Robert might feel a bit shortchanged with the whole Batverse/DCU situation. He always seemed so enthusiastic about Batman and being Batman in his interviews and genuinely happy to play the character, so I kinda wonder if, on some level he feels a little bit bad about the fact that, regardless of how the next 2 films do, he won't really get to be a generation's "definitive Batman" because of the whole "co-existing with the DCU Batman" situation which puts him more on a situation where he'll be eternally compared more than any of the previous Batmen were.

But even beyond that, just from a creative standpoint... he namedropped Birth of the Demon and Batman Damned as some of his favorite Batman comics, both of which feature elements that are most likely /never/ going to be explored with his take but definitely will with the DCU Batman (Batman vs. Ra's al Ghul on Birth of the Demon, Batman interacting with straight up supernatural phenomena like Etrigan, Swamp Thing, Deadman on Damned) Hell, I would not be surprised if even Robin, which he also expressed interest in, is now somewhat off-limits because of the DCU situation. And even stuff like Arkham Asylum which he also namedropped in this interview is now going to be explored more in the DCU with the Antonio Campos show (A director he already worked with before, on top of that)

Add to that the fact that Robert already seemed to be a fan of James Gunn's by him saying (years before he got cast as Batman) he loves Guardians of the Galaxy and would've loved to do something like that, idk, I said it before but I think he'd have actually loved to be a part of the DCU and probably would've enjoyed the creative challenge of incorporating Matt's Batman into Gunn's world. His sensibilities and the stuff he loves in comics just makes me strongly lean into that belief.

And it's an easy thing to get over if The Batman Part ll and lll go great, but between those facts and the sequel delay and how uncertain certain aspects of the future of this franchise seem, it kinda wouldn't surprise me if right now he feels like he got the short end of the stick in a way, and through no fault of his own, and with probably zero say whatsoever over the whole situation.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I don’t think the DCU has any interest in actors like Pattinson who have clout and cost money.

 

[Invader Joker]

I don’t think the DCU has any interest in actors like Pattinson who have clout and cost money.

I get why you're saying it but it's funny because in this specific case that's already demostrably false with how Gunn and Safran were seemingly open to integrating Pattinson's Batman into their universe provided Matt agreed. (With Gunn saying that it was Matt's decision to keep the universe separate, not the other way around) So in this case, they were indeed interested in Pattinson.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Well they ain't no more!

 

[solidsnake86]

If your Pattinson (and his agent) I dont know how happy you are to be announced as the new batman and then less than a year after your movie is released and does fairly well, another batman movie is announced. You can sugar coat that all you want but it's direct competition.

 

[BatLobster]

Honestly, yeah it does totally fit Pattinson's oddball personality that he'd probably he thrilled to be in a weirder, more out there take on the mythos.

But then again, Keaton was really keen to do a Batman origin story. Bale was also keen to do a more extreme, more sexual sort of take on the character. At the end of the day, I'm sure Pattinson is still grateful for the opportunity to wear the cape and cowl even if he doesn't get to explore every little thing he'd want to during his tenure.

The whole aspect about not being the only Batman for this era though, that's kind of another story and it's hard to say. I still think it's just not smart business to go that route in general.

 

[J.Drangal]

This post will probably be unpopular, but here we go...

When Reeves wrote his first Batman film, it was understandable that he needed a few months to distance himself from the whole Batfleck era, and that the process of building up his entire vision was time-consuming by essence, with all that that implies in terms of experimentation, etc. However, he has also hinted several times in interviews that he did have some difficulties with the writing, and that it was why he used some help for the second and third arcs of The Batman (and depending on your sensibilities, you may or may not say that this was felt in the finished product).

Here, putting aside the strikes (which btw don't stop you from thinking about your script, especially for several months), I think it’s legitimate to, at least, suppose a little "red flag" as regards the development of this sequel. Because despite the universe having been planted and the help of Tomsin as a co-writer from the get go (who btw shared months ago that his involvement was finished), we know from Gunn's own words that no script has yet been submitted. Taking into account the fact that there could still be some back-and-forth on it between the studio and the writers, as is often the case, then yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if things were postponed once again.
I know there's an hypothesis that things remained deliberately quiet until The Penguin hit the screens, but still, something feels a bit off to me.

I hope I won't be caricatured as a drama-queen or whatever, it's all just speculation and, to be honest, my hype for all this has seriously declined (or at least felt deeply asleep), so...
But I'd still like to point out that if it's common for 2-3 years to pass between installments in a film saga, it's often because the directors are doing other things on the side. In Reeves' case, he's full-on into this Batman thing, and by the time his second film comes out (if the dates hold), he'll have spent nearly as much time as Nolan on his own entire Batman trilogy and two more personal films...
Of course, every director has his or her own rhythm, but what I'm saying here is that 8 years is a long time in a career. And I can well imagine that for someone slowly entering their sixties, that might be “enough”, and that they might want to do something else. Simply put: I sometimes wonder if Reeves isn't burning out on this character or spreading himself too thin. I mean, the lengthy writing of the films, the supervision of spin-offs, the overall management of pitches for other projects (is the development of an Arkham Asylum show for the DCU really necessary?).. That's a lot of work and the pay-offs are becoming quite scattered (not necessarely a problem for us, but from a business point-of-view...).

Again, this is pure speculation, I have no doubt that The Batman Part II will happen, it's not even up for debate. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if it marked the end of Reeves' run.
And while I don't think WB is putting pressure on him, the DCU is by nature a kind of competition and I simply don't think it's the ideal work environment, in general.

Anyway, just my two cents.