Rank the Batman Franchise!

[SwordOfMorning]

When it comes to the controversy about Joker none of us are talking about the extremely goofy performative worry about whether it would cause incels to go on rampages. What we're talking about is how the film is, rightly, often regarded as essentially a Scorsese's greatest hits compilation.

It's a film I like a lot but it is very much an homage to greater films first and foremost.

 

[Chris Reeves]

When it comes to the controversy about Joker none of us are talking about the extremely goofy performative worry about whether it would cause incels to go on rampages. What we're talking about is how the film is, rightly, often regarded as essentially a Scorsese's greatest hits compilation.

It's a film I like a lot but it is very much an homage to greater films first and foremost.

I have absolutely no problem with that, and judging from it's success, neither did anyone else. It was still very well-written, beautifully shot, incredibly acted, and wonderfully scored. Some people out here acting like it was a scene-for-scene remake of something Scorsese.

 

[Chris Reeves]

That is a very good point, I forgot that it gradually become beloved. Same with a lot of Kubrick. But Joker had the issue of franchise-attachment that those didn't. I still disagree that Joker is one of the most acclaimed of all time, comparing it to these other monumental landmarks of cinema just feels premature imo. It's just impossible for a comic book movie to be fully divorced from corporate business decisions, although a lot of that is mostly a time period thing. There's just so much more cynicism in the making of Joker than those early examples.

We'll have to see what direction they take with the sequel...

 

[CondimentKing]

And I look forward to it!

 

[CondimentKing]

I have absolutely no problem with that, and judging from it's success, neither did anyone else. It was still very well-written, beautifully shot, incredibly acted, and wonderfully scored. Some people out here acting like it was a scene-for-scene remake of something Scorsese.

It kind of is though. It IS King of Comedy. Some scenes are literally almost 1:1

 

[Filmfreak]

Joker also has a 59% metascore, which is technically considered a mixed overall response by critics. True, there is an argument to be made about many films that were reevaluated later on but there is another about films that were very hot when they came out and eventually got forgotten by time. Two years is way too soon to judge if a movie will be considered a classic or if the hype will go out with a whimper.

 

[BatLobster]

My problem with Joker being held up so high is that I don't think it's the best film about mental health issues, don't think it's as good (and certainly not as original) as the films it's drawing inspiration from, don't think it's the best film to feature The Joker or the best depiction of The Joker.

That said I still think it's a really beautifully shot movie with a great performance at the center that pushed the boundaries for the genre. I'm fine just leaving it at that and letting history decide the rest.

 

[shauner111]

Critics did not adore it. The screenplay was rather weak and REALLY on the nose. It's well directed but not "nominate Todd Phillips for best director" levels of good. The strengths of Joker lies within the period setting, production design, score, Joaquin's performance (one of his best but not on the level of his work in The Master). Although everyone else's performances kinda pale in comparison. I'm not that crazy about some of the aspects that make up the cinematography either.

Most people who are wowed by the movie haven't seen Taxi Driver or King of Comedy (like a close friend of mine). But it's a solid 8 on 10 for me. It's just not that deep as it thinks it is or original for that matter. The dialogue at times sounds like a teenager wrote it.

 

[CondimentKing]

Yeah it's mostly just the writing that holds it back for me. I kind of cringe at how simple and tropey it is with him getting beat up by kids with the sign lol, it doesn't feel real to me. Everything is way too obvious. Some great moments though, the talk show and bathroom scenes are fantastic

 

[Chris Reeves]

My problem with Joker being held up so high is that I don't think it's the best film about mental health issues, don't think it's as good (and certainly not as original) as the films it's drawing inspiration from, don't think it's the best film to feature The Joker or the best depiction of The Joker.

That said I still think it's a really beautifully shot movie with a great performance at the center that pushed the boundaries for the genre. I'm fine just leaving it at that and letting history decide the rest.

Joaquin still drew inspiration from an actual condition (pseudobulbar affect) and portrayed it rather accurately. That said, PBA is more a neurological deal than a "mental illness" in the political sense. I think with the Joker movie, there was so much going on that it's really kind of up to the viewer to either be affected by, or simply be numb to, all of the many different things Arthur is dealing with. The man was literally cut off at every possible pass in his life, and one could almost imagine a complete psychotic break as being the only form of relief for him, which is fairly consistent with the Joker from comics. One's interpretation of the film in many ways is a reflection of their own empathy (or lack thereof) towards people who struggle in similar ways to what Arthur did, and I think that's part of the irony of it.

Taxi Driver is one of my favourite films of all time, but the influence I see on Joker is more a stylistic one than anything. Any film about a consummate loner will always draw comparisons to Travis Bickle, it's just the way it is. I'm actually just about to put on King of Comedy again for the first time in forever to see if there's anything else I notice.

 

[Chris Reeves]

Critics did not adore it. The screenplay was rather weak and REALLY on the nose. It's well directed but not "nominate Todd Phillips for best director" levels of good. The strengths of Joker lies within the period setting, production design, score, Joaquin's performance (one of his best but not on the level of his work in The Master). Although everyone else's performances kinda pale in comparison. I'm not that crazy about some of the aspects that make up the cinematography either.

Most people who are wowed by the movie haven't seen Taxi Driver or King of Comedy (like a close friend of mine). But it's a solid 8 on 10 for me. It's just not that deep as it thinks it is or original for that matter. The dialogue at times sounds like a teenager wrote it.

I loved The Master too, but some credit has to go to our boy Philip Seymour Hoffman. They played off each other incredibly well in the scenes they had together. I haven't actually seen KoC again since Joker came out, so I got one rolled up here and about to put it on lol

 

[Invader Joker]

It kind of is though. It IS King of Comedy. Some scenes are literally almost 1:1

Not really. Certain plot beats but the tone is extremely different.

 

[Chris Reeves]

It's been a decade or more since I last saw King of Comedy, I can't believe how much I'd forgotten from it, and how much Todd Phillips "borrowed" from it for Joker lmao

 

[CondimentKing]

The tone is different, sure because KoC is more comedic, but the entire idea with the talk show and viewing himself on it is nearly identical, as is his love interest and him practicing in his apartment, with similar mom issues scenes that linger over each film. It's way closer to KoC than Taxi Driver imo, it's just got the Taxi Driver / Schrader esque political angle and ending (plus the visuals of him with a gun).

 

[Chris Reeves]

The tone is different, sure because KoC is more comedic, but the entire idea with the talk show and viewing himself on it is nearly identical, as is his love interest and him practicing in his apartment, with similar mom issues scenes that linger over each film. It's way closer to KoC than Taxi Driver imo, it's just got the Taxi Driver / Schrader esque political angle and ending (plus the visuals of him with a gun).

Plus there is the idea that we never know whether it all takes place in his head.

 

[CondimentKing]

Yeah, and the clocks are all the same time throughout the movie iirc. I think my favourite scene in Joker overall is probably the final scene in the asylum. The Sinatra needledrop is so good. I'm all over the place opinion wise on the movie, but there's a good 3 or 4 scenes that are absolutely all timer Batman moments imo

 

[Chris Reeves]

Yeah, and the clocks are all the same time throughout the movie iirc. I think my favourite scene in Joker overall is probably the final scene in the asylum. The Sinatra needledrop is so good

I only realized today that Phillips completely ripped off that scene from KoC when Pupkin was getting escorted by security out of Jerry's office. If there is a line in film where homage becomes plagiarism, Phillips straight up snorted it lol

 

[CondimentKing]

That scene in KoC is so good. Yeah, that's basically the root of my cynicism around the movie. I'm hoping the sequel can really become its own thing. If it is going to copy anything just go hard on Cuckoos Nest just because it would be fun lol but other than that I hope it's more original

 

[Chris Reeves]

That scene in KoC is so good. Yeah, that's basically the root of my cynicism around the movie. I'm hoping the sequel can really become its own thing. If it is going to copy anything just go hard on Cuckoos Nest just because it would be fun lol but other than that I hope it's more original

I wonder how much darker Phillips will go with it, considering the tone of the first film. We can pretty much guarantee it will be rated-R again.

 

[CondimentKing]

Yeah definitely R

 

[WatchProtect]

I wonder lf the Joker look is actually needed for a sequel, they hooked quite a wide audience with the first one that they could probably get away with filming it in an even more removed way.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

My rankings. Theatrical, and had to have Batman in the title.

 

[Chris Reeves]

I think TDK is best movie of the bunch, but BB is the best Batman movie of the bunch, if that makes sense.

 

[Rick190293]

My ranking:
1- TDK
2 - TDKR
3 - BB
4 - Returns
5 - BvS
5 - 89
6 - JL (snydercut)
7 - Forever
8 - JL
8 - B&R

Hopefully a 2022 movie will take the 1#…

 

[Mandon Knight]

1) Batman v Superman : Ultimate Edition
2) ZSJL
3) Batman Begins
4) Batman (1989)
5) TDK
6) Batman Returns
7) TDKR
8) Batman Forever
9) Batman & Robin

Live action choices only....