Spider-knight
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so yesterday teekay wrote a comparison review of the amazing spiderman 2 and this is what he told us:
any thoughts?
The movie was subject of rehoots and re-editing. Seriously, as I watched the film at certain points, I was like wait a minute that scene is not suppose to be there, it was a different place. Example, the part where Spidey grabs onto to the police car Charlie Chapplin style was during the the Rhino chase sequence which was a longer sequence with more smooth editing. Spidey jumping from car to car? Gone in the final cut. Spidey's lines to Aleksei were re-dubbed, honestly there was no Spidey whistling the Spidey theme but that was added to the final cut. Spidey's words to Max the first time they meet? Also re-dubbed. I let it go because you know what? Things change.
Openining scene was very much the same, Peter's parents on the run. The reason why I enjoyed TASM2 more is because it was starting address the things wrong with the first film, answering questions that were left in the first film. It was ticking things off. They addressed Peter's promise to Gwen Stacy, they showed Spidey in broad daylight. They gave Gwen character instead of being just there. Peter was much more likeable and relateable. Let's talk about Max/Electro, I addressed this in my first review. His character was weak, basically like Riddler. I knew from the get go he was used because the villain is visually appealing and he was for the most part. I didn't mind it because I know there was a bigger villain at play here and that was Oscorp. I loved Harry Osborn in this film.Harry, while certainly a departure from the more lighthearted and warm character we're used to, was done rather well. From the beginning, there is a sense of menace and potential for power lurking within him, it's obvious that it's coming, due to his unfortunate association with Oscorp. Harry was both entertaining and threatening at the same time. And that's before he puts the Goblin suit on. From that point on, he's pure threatening, as long as you make sure to overlook his silly hair. In all seriousness, the sense of impending doom from the moment he swoops in on his glider and his unrelenting viciousness comes into play very well.
Would I have loved to see more interactions with him and Peter? Yep, it was a poor decision by Marc not to put him in TASM to establish his character. However, Harry's character I was impressed with. His desperation of finding a cure because he's just a kid, he starts panicking. Like seriously, if someone tells you you are dying, wouldn't you try and find a cure even though you might live longer? I understood his character. He slowly starts to lose it, drinking alcohol and all. Then when Spiderman refuses to give him blood, he loses it.
That convo Harry has with Peter about him dying and stuff I wish wasn't edited. Remember when I told Repulser Blast that Harry was looking for the cure that was supposedly to heal his father? That's because of what he was talking with Peter. 'We literally can change the world'. At that point, I got the impression Harry wanted to not only cure himself, but continue his father's legacy of developing a cure for cancer, alzeimher's etc. He believed Spiderman's blood was the cure to everything. However, when he put on the suit after taking the Spider venom, I was under the impression he was completely healed. That's when all hail breaks loose. Here, he's no longer Harry, he's the Goblin. As an act of revenge, Harry pretty much lays waste in Oscorp killing people from the ground up. That scene was intense and dark, I realised Harry had lost it. This was all happening whilst Spidey was duking it out with Electro at the power plant. So like after Electro gets defeated in teh final cut, it's kinda convinient that Goblin shows up there isn't it? Like where was he all this time? Just waiting for Electro to be deafeated? Well they shouldn't have cut that Goblin attack on Oscorp.
Now, in the final cut, Peter and Gwen are standing on top of the bridge. In the rough cut they were not. That scene was obviously reshot because Peter and Gwen were standing on top of a building and at different positions. Why it was changed? I have no idea. Now on to the power plant battle. This was about 60% different. What I saw, Spidey was evading Electro, trying to wear him out. The idea was Electro becomes weaker without Electricity. So it was to put him in the position where all of his power is gone. Trying to caccoon him. That's when that scene happened. Remember when I said Electro blew up? That's how I intepreted it but when some people who saw the film said it wasn't. God have mercy many people jumped on me calling ********. But isn't that what happened? Also the itsy bitsy spidey dubstep wasn't there. Electro blows up. He over charges and blows, like a battery. The chip on his head said so. Difference is, he didn't de-materialized, instead his body looked drained. Was put in a crater and thrown in the river. He was done. The stuff with the planes was in the film though. I don't see people's issue with it. If Electro sucked all the power out of the city, there's consequences. Both scenes with Aunt May in the hospital was not shown in the rough cut
Then Harry shows up. This was probably my favorite fight scene in the whole film. Everything plays out the way it did in the final cut up until Harry cuts the web. Peter pushes Harry back, goes after Gwen and Harry calls his glider and goes after them. The fight ensues once again and Harry gets the upper hand and has Gwen by the neck. Peter pleads with him again but Harry repeats his hope line and snap, with one hand.Peter screams, and goes off to grieve for Gwen whilst Harry was being cheeky (had a smirk on his face-_-). Peter loses it and begins pummelling Harry, grabs a rod and before killing him, we hear Uncle Ben's words from the first film. he doesn't kill him and tells Harry the serum did it to him. He webs him up and goes to hold Gwen and hears sirens and leaves.
There was no funeral but we had Peter visiting Gwen's grave, then his Cap Stacy's asking for forgiveness. None of that stuff with Mr Fier's (who's name wasn't even mentioned in the film) visiting Harry was in the rough cut. I was actually surprised that Harry was the one to form the S6. And then they completely reshot and edited the post credits scene into the film. Like really? So that they could implement all that S6 stuff. It really explains the re-shoots. I wonder how much they had to reshoot. The film went straight from the grave to the scene with Peter in his room and instead of listening to the USB drive with Gwen's speech on it, he reads a letter Gwen wrote to him. Then the we get the Rhino fight only difference is that Spidey used his hand to hit Rhino with the man hole cover. For me that whole last 20 minutes or so was perfect for me because not only did peter's arc come full circle, but it was emotionally engaging. Far more than I did with Cap 2. That's why i went back and fourth on the two films. I was more emotionally invested in TASM2 than I was in Cap 2.
On top of my head, other scenes that were added in was the scene with Harry and gwen in the elevator, Peter listening to Gwen's voice-mail (that replaced gwen going to Aunt May's house), The Rhino merch in Oscorp. Scenes that were edited were Norman and Harry talk, Peter's talk with Harry (all of them), Times Sqaure battle (which was pretty cool imo). Scenes with Electro in the subway, a shot showing the pic of his mom were all taken out. The scene were he steal the suit at Ravencroft. Scene with Gwen writing the letter to Peter was also taken out. So when I started seeing all these things being taken out and new things being put in, it felt at times I was watching a different film. Scene with Max and gwen in the elevator wasn't in the film but a scene leading up to it were they bumped into each other was there. None of that Dubstep music was in because there was no score, just stock music. The score that was in was pretty cool still loved Zimmer's score though.
The whole tonal issues wasn't a problem for me, the film was self aware and was more edited properly. Everything fit together imo. It is very evident the film was meddled with especially with the word that Sony decided to implement the S6 stuff when production was almost done. You could see that rewrites happened and reshoots were done. Dialogue was cheesy but duh, it's a Spiderman film goddamit. It's filled with cheesy dialogue both in Raimi's and Webb's. The film gave me the Spidey troll, the humour and insane Spidey action. I loved it. When I walked out of that screening, I was like, Webb did it, I think he has finally nailed Spiderman whilst delievering a great film. Has he actually done what Nolan did for batman with TDK? Perfect costume, A better version of SM3's story, a satisfying 3rd act. I understood the character's motives, their stories. I knew what was going and followed anything. While it is unlikely this film will win any original screenplay awards, particularly given the mere decade that has passed since the original Spiderman film debuted, The Amazing Spiderman 2 is an enjoyable entry into Marvel's comic book film adaptation canon, dealing deftly with the familiar themes without beating the audience over the head. Orzi, Kurztman and Pinkett should be praised for their script in this film. It's a sharply written script with witty humour and very intense dramatic moments (in particular the final fight). Of course there's a few eye roll moments but it's a Spiderman movie, we should expect those but they're nothing severe. The script is very well constructed and pretty straight-forward.
Despite this being a clear superhero comic book movie film, the superhero antics seem to take a back seat (even though there's a lot of action) and we are allowed to delve deeper into the characters. Peter Parker is clearly over-confident and full of himself at the start of the film only to have his whole world turned upside down at the end. He's a guy who has grown up having a troubled life which isn't about to get any easier and the relationships he forms with his Uncle Aunt and long time friend Harry are all really well written, his relationship with Gwen Stacy (a vital part of Spider-Man history in the comic books) is dealt with wonderfully and with a huge deal of respect. You get a real sense that all of these characters are believable in their motivations, their friendships, their triumphs and short comings. The characters and the sequences in this film operate on a level of emotional depth that is several notches deeper than that in the other Spidey-flicks (except SM2). Director Marc Webb, who's only other director's credit before the first film was 500 Days of Summer, did a great job creating a gritty, modern-day Spider-Man. All the actors are superb, the action is great, the special effects are amazing (especially the first-person web swinging scenes), and the story is very well done. It's now clear this new universe is headed in a different direction.
For someone who wasn't fond of the first film, I must say this film did many things for me as a viewer. I literally sat back and watched as a very good love story for a adolescent character in a superhero film was shown before me.The characters are developed far more smoothly and emotionally, taking the humor the original trilogy had out of their growth and replacing it with serious backgrounds and story lines. This film really overwhelmed me, and surprised me in every way. With all the characters given respect, it goes without saying that the film also handles the spectacle with equal measure. Here, you'll believe a man really can do those death-defying swings. The action is brutal and intense, as are the consequences Peter suffers. There's a true sense of danger. But it's not all gloom, he's the wise-cracking web-slinger so many people had originally wanted. The humour is not of the juvenile kind that plagued the other films. It's well-placed here, smart and actually funny. Appropriate director Marc Webb ensures there's not a dull moment in the film, even during its 'slower' parts. It keeps you transfixed. This movie does contain a sense of sadness, romance, uplifting relief, and action-packed adrenaline. There are some scenes that remain calm at first but then jump right out at you. Every major gripe I had with the first film has been addressed here. A certainly better film than it's predecessor and a worthy sequel. I wrote these last two paragraphs basing my thoughts on the rough cut. That's exactly how I felt when I walked out of my screening back in March.
Openining scene was very much the same, Peter's parents on the run. The reason why I enjoyed TASM2 more is because it was starting address the things wrong with the first film, answering questions that were left in the first film. It was ticking things off. They addressed Peter's promise to Gwen Stacy, they showed Spidey in broad daylight. They gave Gwen character instead of being just there. Peter was much more likeable and relateable. Let's talk about Max/Electro, I addressed this in my first review. His character was weak, basically like Riddler. I knew from the get go he was used because the villain is visually appealing and he was for the most part. I didn't mind it because I know there was a bigger villain at play here and that was Oscorp. I loved Harry Osborn in this film.Harry, while certainly a departure from the more lighthearted and warm character we're used to, was done rather well. From the beginning, there is a sense of menace and potential for power lurking within him, it's obvious that it's coming, due to his unfortunate association with Oscorp. Harry was both entertaining and threatening at the same time. And that's before he puts the Goblin suit on. From that point on, he's pure threatening, as long as you make sure to overlook his silly hair. In all seriousness, the sense of impending doom from the moment he swoops in on his glider and his unrelenting viciousness comes into play very well.
Would I have loved to see more interactions with him and Peter? Yep, it was a poor decision by Marc not to put him in TASM to establish his character. However, Harry's character I was impressed with. His desperation of finding a cure because he's just a kid, he starts panicking. Like seriously, if someone tells you you are dying, wouldn't you try and find a cure even though you might live longer? I understood his character. He slowly starts to lose it, drinking alcohol and all. Then when Spiderman refuses to give him blood, he loses it.
That convo Harry has with Peter about him dying and stuff I wish wasn't edited. Remember when I told Repulser Blast that Harry was looking for the cure that was supposedly to heal his father? That's because of what he was talking with Peter. 'We literally can change the world'. At that point, I got the impression Harry wanted to not only cure himself, but continue his father's legacy of developing a cure for cancer, alzeimher's etc. He believed Spiderman's blood was the cure to everything. However, when he put on the suit after taking the Spider venom, I was under the impression he was completely healed. That's when all hail breaks loose. Here, he's no longer Harry, he's the Goblin. As an act of revenge, Harry pretty much lays waste in Oscorp killing people from the ground up. That scene was intense and dark, I realised Harry had lost it. This was all happening whilst Spidey was duking it out with Electro at the power plant. So like after Electro gets defeated in teh final cut, it's kinda convinient that Goblin shows up there isn't it? Like where was he all this time? Just waiting for Electro to be deafeated? Well they shouldn't have cut that Goblin attack on Oscorp.
Now, in the final cut, Peter and Gwen are standing on top of the bridge. In the rough cut they were not. That scene was obviously reshot because Peter and Gwen were standing on top of a building and at different positions. Why it was changed? I have no idea. Now on to the power plant battle. This was about 60% different. What I saw, Spidey was evading Electro, trying to wear him out. The idea was Electro becomes weaker without Electricity. So it was to put him in the position where all of his power is gone. Trying to caccoon him. That's when that scene happened. Remember when I said Electro blew up? That's how I intepreted it but when some people who saw the film said it wasn't. God have mercy many people jumped on me calling ********. But isn't that what happened? Also the itsy bitsy spidey dubstep wasn't there. Electro blows up. He over charges and blows, like a battery. The chip on his head said so. Difference is, he didn't de-materialized, instead his body looked drained. Was put in a crater and thrown in the river. He was done. The stuff with the planes was in the film though. I don't see people's issue with it. If Electro sucked all the power out of the city, there's consequences. Both scenes with Aunt May in the hospital was not shown in the rough cut
Then Harry shows up. This was probably my favorite fight scene in the whole film. Everything plays out the way it did in the final cut up until Harry cuts the web. Peter pushes Harry back, goes after Gwen and Harry calls his glider and goes after them. The fight ensues once again and Harry gets the upper hand and has Gwen by the neck. Peter pleads with him again but Harry repeats his hope line and snap, with one hand.Peter screams, and goes off to grieve for Gwen whilst Harry was being cheeky (had a smirk on his face-_-). Peter loses it and begins pummelling Harry, grabs a rod and before killing him, we hear Uncle Ben's words from the first film. he doesn't kill him and tells Harry the serum did it to him. He webs him up and goes to hold Gwen and hears sirens and leaves.
There was no funeral but we had Peter visiting Gwen's grave, then his Cap Stacy's asking for forgiveness. None of that stuff with Mr Fier's (who's name wasn't even mentioned in the film) visiting Harry was in the rough cut. I was actually surprised that Harry was the one to form the S6. And then they completely reshot and edited the post credits scene into the film. Like really? So that they could implement all that S6 stuff. It really explains the re-shoots. I wonder how much they had to reshoot. The film went straight from the grave to the scene with Peter in his room and instead of listening to the USB drive with Gwen's speech on it, he reads a letter Gwen wrote to him. Then the we get the Rhino fight only difference is that Spidey used his hand to hit Rhino with the man hole cover. For me that whole last 20 minutes or so was perfect for me because not only did peter's arc come full circle, but it was emotionally engaging. Far more than I did with Cap 2. That's why i went back and fourth on the two films. I was more emotionally invested in TASM2 than I was in Cap 2.
On top of my head, other scenes that were added in was the scene with Harry and gwen in the elevator, Peter listening to Gwen's voice-mail (that replaced gwen going to Aunt May's house), The Rhino merch in Oscorp. Scenes that were edited were Norman and Harry talk, Peter's talk with Harry (all of them), Times Sqaure battle (which was pretty cool imo). Scenes with Electro in the subway, a shot showing the pic of his mom were all taken out. The scene were he steal the suit at Ravencroft. Scene with Gwen writing the letter to Peter was also taken out. So when I started seeing all these things being taken out and new things being put in, it felt at times I was watching a different film. Scene with Max and gwen in the elevator wasn't in the film but a scene leading up to it were they bumped into each other was there. None of that Dubstep music was in because there was no score, just stock music. The score that was in was pretty cool still loved Zimmer's score though.
The whole tonal issues wasn't a problem for me, the film was self aware and was more edited properly. Everything fit together imo. It is very evident the film was meddled with especially with the word that Sony decided to implement the S6 stuff when production was almost done. You could see that rewrites happened and reshoots were done. Dialogue was cheesy but duh, it's a Spiderman film goddamit. It's filled with cheesy dialogue both in Raimi's and Webb's. The film gave me the Spidey troll, the humour and insane Spidey action. I loved it. When I walked out of that screening, I was like, Webb did it, I think he has finally nailed Spiderman whilst delievering a great film. Has he actually done what Nolan did for batman with TDK? Perfect costume, A better version of SM3's story, a satisfying 3rd act. I understood the character's motives, their stories. I knew what was going and followed anything. While it is unlikely this film will win any original screenplay awards, particularly given the mere decade that has passed since the original Spiderman film debuted, The Amazing Spiderman 2 is an enjoyable entry into Marvel's comic book film adaptation canon, dealing deftly with the familiar themes without beating the audience over the head. Orzi, Kurztman and Pinkett should be praised for their script in this film. It's a sharply written script with witty humour and very intense dramatic moments (in particular the final fight). Of course there's a few eye roll moments but it's a Spiderman movie, we should expect those but they're nothing severe. The script is very well constructed and pretty straight-forward.
Despite this being a clear superhero comic book movie film, the superhero antics seem to take a back seat (even though there's a lot of action) and we are allowed to delve deeper into the characters. Peter Parker is clearly over-confident and full of himself at the start of the film only to have his whole world turned upside down at the end. He's a guy who has grown up having a troubled life which isn't about to get any easier and the relationships he forms with his Uncle Aunt and long time friend Harry are all really well written, his relationship with Gwen Stacy (a vital part of Spider-Man history in the comic books) is dealt with wonderfully and with a huge deal of respect. You get a real sense that all of these characters are believable in their motivations, their friendships, their triumphs and short comings. The characters and the sequences in this film operate on a level of emotional depth that is several notches deeper than that in the other Spidey-flicks (except SM2). Director Marc Webb, who's only other director's credit before the first film was 500 Days of Summer, did a great job creating a gritty, modern-day Spider-Man. All the actors are superb, the action is great, the special effects are amazing (especially the first-person web swinging scenes), and the story is very well done. It's now clear this new universe is headed in a different direction.
For someone who wasn't fond of the first film, I must say this film did many things for me as a viewer. I literally sat back and watched as a very good love story for a adolescent character in a superhero film was shown before me.The characters are developed far more smoothly and emotionally, taking the humor the original trilogy had out of their growth and replacing it with serious backgrounds and story lines. This film really overwhelmed me, and surprised me in every way. With all the characters given respect, it goes without saying that the film also handles the spectacle with equal measure. Here, you'll believe a man really can do those death-defying swings. The action is brutal and intense, as are the consequences Peter suffers. There's a true sense of danger. But it's not all gloom, he's the wise-cracking web-slinger so many people had originally wanted. The humour is not of the juvenile kind that plagued the other films. It's well-placed here, smart and actually funny. Appropriate director Marc Webb ensures there's not a dull moment in the film, even during its 'slower' parts. It keeps you transfixed. This movie does contain a sense of sadness, romance, uplifting relief, and action-packed adrenaline. There are some scenes that remain calm at first but then jump right out at you. Every major gripe I had with the first film has been addressed here. A certainly better film than it's predecessor and a worthy sequel. I wrote these last two paragraphs basing my thoughts on the rough cut. That's exactly how I felt when I walked out of my screening back in March.
any thoughts?
