The Punisher Season 2, Episode 13 "The Whirlwind" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[flickchick85]

Discuss the Season 2 finale "The Whirlwind" here.


Use spoiler tags when discussing the events of any future episodes (if by some miracle, there are any).
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[Mike Murdock]

Well, the episode got me tearing up at the end, so that's worth a lot. Really, it hit a lot of the notes it needed to. I have in my notes that Mahoney was funny, although I don't remember the specifics. I like the shady surgeon walking off with the money and that Billy Russo ended with an anticlimax. That being said, it's worth pointing out that he was shot trying to apologize for something he didn't even remember doing.

John Pilgrim's story ends interestingly. I didn't expect him to be sympathetic and I'm not convinced it justifies all that went down. Still, the end of both those stories show an interesting thing with the Punisher. People are sympathetic to his cause. Regardless of the politics, they tolerate his murders. And, hell, with the end with that hug and then him shooting those gangsters, I kind of do too. That's the amazing thing about the character.

Four and a Half Stars.

PS, the music this season has been amazing. I commented on Fortunate Son and Say10, but there's so much that's perfect. The trailer had Would and people commented on not having Rooster. This episode had that instead and it fit perfectly. I have to give lots of praise there.

 

[Heretic]

I'm still unclear as to WHY Pilgrim became a sympathetic character. He loves his kids or something?

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I really enjoyed this season

If that final shot of Frank in the skull and trench coat is the last we see of Bernthal’s Punisher, then I can be at peace with that.

Would’ve liked to have seen him wearing it a lot more, but I won’t complain.

With all that said, pls Feige. Save these characters and the fantastic actors that play them. I think they deserve to play in that precious MCU sandbox of yours.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Also, hearing the unplugged version of Rooster by Alice In Chains made me happy. The Punisher and AiC, Such a great combo.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

I'm still unclear as to WHY Pilgrim became a sympathetic character. He loves his kids or something?

His entire family was being used to manipulate him into doing awful ****. That's was clearly telegraphed through second half of the season.

I found his overlords motivations far more preposterous than anything Pilgrim did. Oh no, they have a gay son. Welcome to 2019. It seemed really flimsy. Hated this aspect of the 2004 film, really hated it here.

 

[Prison Mike]

The season ended in such a way that if this is the last time we see Bernthal as The Punisher, I would be okay with it (but not really). Now I’m just waiting for the other shoe to drop with Netflix announcing that the show is cancelled. They will probably give us a week or two to watch the season and let it sink in before the punch in the gut.

 

[Heretic]

His entire family was being used to manipulate him into doing awful ****. That's was clearly telegraphed through second half of the season.

I found his overlords motivations far more preposterous than anything Pilgrim did. Oh no, they have a gay son. Welcome to 2019. It seemed really flimsy. Hated this aspect of the 2004 film, really hated it here.

I know that his family was being used to manipulate him. I just...he was the ultimate muscle for these people. It just seems to me that if he really had a problem at any point with what was happening, he could have just resisted. But I do admit that I completely checked out on his storyline.

 

[Heretic]

...and I'll add that to me, it seems like at some point they decided to make him sympathetic, so they filmed a few scenes to try to justify it. But make no mistake...this guy was absolutely a cold blooded killer who had no problem killing as many innocent people who got in his way of doing what he was told to do, and what he was told to do was "evil." He deserves death, not a happy reunion with his kids. I guess my point is that it wasn't earned in the script.

 

[KaijuDude1992]

Yeah them trying to all of a sudden make him sympathetic didn't sit right with me either. It just wasn't earned IMO considering all the awful **** he did before. Loved the last shot of Bernthal wearing the trench coat with the skull on his chest and guns blazing though. As much as I would be down for a Season 3 that image alone was satisfying enough for me even though it would have been cool to see him wear it more.

I'm going to miss Bernthal's Punisher a lot.

 

[Panacea]

I found Billy's story to be the only compelling character arc of the season, so I was less than enthused about his mundane ending. I was actually rooting for him to kill Madani and was disappointed when she turned out to be alive after the strangulation cop-out. Overall I thought the season was a bit of a mess.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

God I wish we had more Skull and Trench Coat action. Its bittersweet that this season ends with him finally being The Punisher in full force.

 

[Offshore]

Well, the episode got me tearing up at the end, so that's worth a lot. Really, it hit a lot of the notes it needed to. I have in my notes that Mahoney was funny, although I don't remember the specifics. I like the shady surgeon walking off with the money and that Billy Russo ended with an anticlimax. That being said, it's worth pointing out that he was shot trying to apologize for something he didn't even remember doing.

John Pilgrim's story ends interestingly. I didn't expect him to be sympathetic and I'm not convinced it justifies all that went down. Still, the end of both those stories show an interesting thing with the Punisher. People are sympathetic to his cause. Regardless of the politics, they tolerate his murders. And, hell, with the end with that hug and then him shooting those gangsters, I kind of do too. That's the amazing thing about the character.

Four and a Half Stars.

PS, the music this season has been amazing. I commented on Fortunate Son and Say10, but there's so much that's perfect. The trailer had Would and people commented on not having Rooster. This episode had that instead and it fit perfectly. I have to give lots of praise there.

Glad someone mentioned the music. SUPERB across the board. And when I heard a White Buffalo song - my mind was blown. That dude played in my living room, live. Add it to The Punisher?? Worlds colliding.

 

[blackdragon6]

Pilgrim probably would have killed Frank if he was at a hundred percent. Didn't seem very intimidated by Frank. Their shoot out at the hotel was awesome as all hell. Jigsaw's ending was anticlimactic, buuuuut it's not like it wasn't out of place or anything either. I really wanted Frank to encounter Typhoid Mary, Dex, Kingpin, or even Kingpin Luke Cage. But him screaming with guns blazing is a helluva sendoff. But man....There's just so much more that could be done!

 

[Drizzle]

I'm going to miss Bernthal's Punisher a lot.

Me too. Even though I was more or less underwhelmed by this season and I didn't enjoy it nearly as much as season one, I never stopped enjoying Bernthal's Frank.

 

[CyclopsSummers]

I was actually rooting for him to kill Madani and was disappointed when she turned out to be alive after the strangulation cop-out. Overall I thought the season was a bit of a mess.

Most disappointing was Russo no meeting Pilgrim

 

[Madam-Shogun]

Most disappointing was Russo no meeting Pilgrim

That bugged me too tbh...

 

[Lencho01]

Well, it was a solid ending to the season and the show, I guess.

I didn’t find Pilgrim sympathetic at all. Nothing really changed other than his wife dying but one could easily guess that would happen from the start. Didn’t change that he killed all those people for the Schultzes and using his religion as an excuse to do so.

I did feel bad for their son, David since he was totally ignorant to the whole thing. Even he knew his being gay would come out at some point, but didn’t find it to be something that would ruin his political career. Probably mostly because he wants to help rather than gain power like his parents.

I was actually thinking they’d have Frank sit and stay with Billy so seeing him just shoot him like that was kinda funny for me. Just the way he got dumped in the trash and his money stolen and then killed like that. A little bit more sympathetic towards him since he was trying to apologize, at least, for something he can’t even remember doing. Even so, his true nature still showed that he’s a dick and that’s what led to all of his actions this season.

The whole thing with the doctor still baffled me. But whatever, her career and life to throw away.

Madani... I guess she just needed to have that knowledge of having a hand in Billy’s death in order to get her mind right.

Mahoney should probably take a vacation.

Curtis needs to call up that lady he was seeing a take a vacation with her. They can stay in a hotel together for real.

I think Amy has gained some wisdom and will stay out of trouble. She just needs to watch out for Florida Man!

 

[Yurka]

Posted this in another thread but, like clockwork, Netflix takes 12 & 3/4 episodes to get to what you want to see....

And this quote from the showrunner is frustrating: "That final image [of the Season 2 finale] was meant to say, very much, ‘Look, Frank is now The Punisher". ....so basically where Daredevil Season 2 left us? It took two full seasons of his own show to get back to that starting point? My favorite Punisher season is still Daredevil Season 2....

'Punisher' Season 3 Release Date Spoilers: Kingpin Could Play a Big Role | Inverse

 

[righthooksrus86]

Posted this in another thread but, like clockwork, Netflix takes 12 & 3/4 episodes to get to what you want to see....

And this quote from the showrunner is frustrating: "That final image [of the Season 2 finale] was meant to say, very much, ‘Look, Frank is now The Punisher". ....so basically where Daredevil Season 2 left us? It took two full seasons of his own show to get back to that starting point? My favorite Punisher season is still Daredevil Season 2....

'Punisher' Season 3 Release Date Spoilers: Kingpin Could Play a Big Role | Inverse

I agree, makes it even worse that we're probably not getting a season 3 either...These netflix shows are entertaining but frustrating. One thing that makes me frustrated as well is that they gave Frank a love interest in the first episode and had her get badly hurt mostly because of him, and then they hint at him and Karen having a thing. Romance in my opinion just doesn't work in The Punisher, if we do get another season I hope they dont throw that nonsense in.

 

[Hotwire]

I'm still unclear as to WHY Pilgrim became a sympathetic character. He loves his kids or something?

Close. He'd do anything to keep his boys safe. Frank saw himself in Pilgrim once he realized Pilgrim's motivation. John didn't have any stake in the whole situation other than protecting his boys.


Side note: A LOT of the congregation were deathly I'll. You see this when it shows the church sermon. It's very likely that the Schultz family was making them sick in order to manipulate John and others like him

 

[Heretic]

Okay...there is an episode that focused on Pilgrim that, I admit...I was kind of half watching...are you saying that the people in charge were threatening to hurt his kids? In the last episode, they were saying that they would raise them.

 

[Hotwire]

Okay...there is an episode that focused on Pilgrim that, I admit...I was kind of half watching...are you saying that the people in charge were threatening to hurt his kids? In the last episode, they were saying that they would raise them.

They were using the boys as leverage. There's the call he gets from his oldest son. Then she takes the phone and says she just wanted to remind John what he was fighting for. It's not stated, but that exchange really gives the impression they wouldn't hesitate to hurt the boys. I'd wager by making them sick.

 

[Heretic]

I didn't get that they were threatening the kids. Like I said, their plan was to raise them...not kill them. This dude spent years of his life running off to kill for those people...and apparently had some weird religious code to back it up...and then the show decided to turn him good, so it just happened.

Maybe they were. Still...the dude earned a bullet to the head.

 

[Mike Murdock]

The implication I got was that they would raise them if Pilgrim died, kill them if he didn't do what they asked.

Doesn't mean it redeems what he did previously or, more importantly, doesn't mean that it should redeem him in Frank's eyes. It sort of worked in the moment for me because Frank got the bigger fish, but it still had issues. Hell, considering how easily the Schultz family went down, it raises questions of why Pilgrim couldn't have done that.

Also, a thought I just had - they weren't threatening his kids until his wife died. Before that point, they were using his wife as leverage. He continued to do what he was doing because they were paying for his wife's treatments. I also got the impression early on that he believed that God was also helping his wife because of what he was doing, but there's enough conflicting information there that I can't be certain.