Season 6 Episode 2 Discussion "Home"

[Fist of Khonshu]

So someone is apparently back!

Either we just witnessed a wight awakening, or a very altered Jon.
On Game of Thrones, resurrection, and coming back wrong



What I can't wrap my head around is Davos' motivation in beseeching the Red Woman for help in bringing him back. He's not Night's Watch, nor does he have a vested interest in the politics up there to need him. This was poorly contrived by D&D, IMO. The resurrection ritual was also unnecessary as Thoros pulled it off quickly and easily using the common tongue when the Lord of Light brought Beric back in Season 3.

 

[Victarion]

Mel probably found comfort in the familiarity of ritual.

 

[Boom]

It's about to go DOWN.

 

[Marvolo]

So someone is apparently back!

Either we just witnessed a wight awakening, or a very altered Jon.
On Game of Thrones, resurrection, and coming back wrong



What I can't wrap my head around is Davos' motivation in beseeching the Red Woman for help in bringing him back. He's not Night's Watch, nor does he have a vested interest in the politics up there to need him. This was poorly contrived by D&D, IMO. The resurrection ritual was also unnecessary as Thoros pulled it off quickly and easily using the common tongue when the Lord of Light brought Beric back in Season 3.

The ritual wasn't what did it. Her "please" is what did it. It was stripped of all the ritual and just her beseeching the Lord of light. The same way Thoros did it. The priest that she once saw do it probably did the ritual and she thought it was a necessary part, but based on Thoros and how he pulled it off I'm guessing it was Mel's simple "please" that worked.

As for why Davos wanted Jon back. Davos is a good judge of character. Stannis is dead and his body is gone. Davos can't have him back, and he has no one to follow and give his allegiance to. But there lies Jon. A good man. An honorable man. And there is a priestess that has performed miracles. I think his reasoning was as simple as that.

 

[Victarion]

Davos also has nowhere to go. Man's a survivor.

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

The ritual wasn't what did it. Her "please" is what did it. It was stripped of all the ritual and just her beseeching the Lord of light. The same way Thoros did it. The priest that she once saw do it probably did the ritual and she thought it was a necessary part, but based on Thoros and how he pulled it off I'm guessing it was Mel's simple "please" that worked.

I can buy that, good explanation!

As for why Davos wanted Jon back. Davos is a good judge of character. Stannis is dead and his body is gone. Davos can't have him back, and he has no one to follow and give his allegiance to. But there lies Jon. A good man. An honorable man. And there is a priestess that has performed miracles. I think his reasoning was as simple as that.

Ehhh...that's all obvious and still kinda weak. It feels..."forced".

 

[Victarion]

See my post. Davos has nothing left to him. His lord is dead. He's an outlaw. He's also a survivor and based on what he's seen from Mel, knows there's still a chance for him with her magic.

 

[Boom]

He probably remembers the impression Jon left with Stannis. I mean here was a guy who turned down legitimazation and freedom from the Night's Watch because he was so fiercely loyal to his oath.

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

Here's D&D on this episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtjuDJytD18#t=116.146712

 

[Spider-Who?]

Davos, like Stannis, understands the dire need the realm has for the Watch. He saw that Jon's actions were the logical course for success and that Allister was a threat to that. He realized that the only hope the Nights Watch (and the realm) have of winning the coming war is with Jon leading.

As for Mel, her situation was completely different from Thoros. Thoros has brought people back several times; it's almost mundane for him. Mel, on the other hand, has NEVER done this and was having a major crisis of faith. It makes sense that she would go the "traditional" route with an actual ritual.

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

See my post. Davos has nothing left to him. His lord is dead. He's an outlaw. He's also a survivor and based on what he's seen from Mel, knows there's still a chance for him with her magic.

How is this a chance for him? There's an assumption here that he's desperate to serve someone, anyone, and nothing like that has been established in his character. He was loyal to Stannis, the rightful King, that's it.

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

Davos, like Stannis, understands the dire need the realm has for the Watch. He saw that Jon's actions were the logical course for success and that Allister was a threat to that. He realized that the only hope the Nights Watch (and the realm) have of winning the coming war is with Jon leading.

Only the day before, Davos had argued with Jon about sending men and supplies to Stannis -the Wall bedamned!

As for Mel, her situation was completely different from Thoros. Thoros has brought people back several times; it's almost mundane for him. Mel, on the other hand, has NEVER done this and was having a major crisis of faith. It makes sense that she would go the "traditional" route with an actual ritual.

The situations are different sure, but not the lack of faith. I recently posted links to the clips of Beric's resurrection as well as the subsequent meeting between Thoros and Mel here in two other threads. They're worth reviewing. Thoros (or the Lord of Light rather) resurrected just one person (Beric) six times. The first time this happened Thoros didn't believe and hadn't for sometime. He explained that he had basically been a charlatan, but his friend was dying so he said the "old words" and that was that!

 

[Victarion]

And now the rightful King is dead. Davos was a smuggler before that. A rogue and an outlaw. I'm not saying he's looking for service - I'm saying he knows his best chance for survival is in Jon's revival. It would be out of character for Davos to ignore it.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Oh ****! Game of Thrones got me again! Honestly did not see that coming. Or at least wasn't sure who would kill who.

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

And now the rightful King is dead. Davos was a smuggler before that. A rogue and an outlaw. I'm not saying he's looking for service - I'm saying he knows his best chance for survival is in Jon's revival. It would be out of character for Davos to ignore it.

If Davos believed Jon was [BLACKOUT]the Azor Ahai or the son of Prince Rhaegar,[/BLACKOUT] then you might have a point, but Jon was the Lord Commander of Castle Black to him, nothing more, and the Castle has been liberated from Ser Alliser's posse now. He can leave, back to Dragonstone or wherever.

Jon was someone with whom Davos had argued on more than one subject. Remember when Stannis was trying to get him to leave the Night's Watch? And then Davos cornered him for his own speech?

And Davos has no experience of the imminent threat of the Army of the Dead and the WW's.

He's not in the politics of the North, his only concern has been aiding Stannis. It seems to me that he would be grieving for Stannis and Shireen not begging for Jon to be brought back.

 

[MurkeNyou]

I think Davos is just a loyal guy, Snow was a guy that inspired loyalty. He is, y'know, one of the chosen ones. I think Davos knows

Spoiler

what Stannis suspected about Jon Snow, he was Stark blood but not his son.

. Awesome show.

 

[Victarion]

If Davos believed Jon was the Azor Ahai or the son of Prince Rhaegar, then you might have a point, but Jon was the Lord Commander of Castle Black to him, nothing more, and the Castle has been liberated from Ser Alliser's posse now. He can leave, back to Dragonstone or wherever.

Jon was someone with whom Davos had argued on more than one subject. Remember when Stannis was trying to get him to leave the Night's Watch? And then Davos cornered him for his own speech?

And Davos has no experience of the imminent threat of the Army of the Dead and the WW's.

He's not in the politics of the North, his only concern has been aiding Stannis. It seems to me that he would be grieving for Stannis and Shireen not begging for Jon to be brought back.

I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. You are overcomplicating it. The wildlings know of Davos as a compatriot to the king that burned their king. Thorne wasn't going to let Davos get out alive. His best bet was getting Mel to try her powers with Jon. Jon is someone the wildlings would listen to; ergo a resurrected Jon was the best shot Davos had of leaving Castle Black alive.

At this point, Davos had nothing to lose from changing Mel's powers and everything to gain on the chance it worked - his life. Prophecies and northern politics don't play any roles here.

 

[MurkeNyou]

That makes sense.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I love how they didn't even try with MvS. Just threw him in the set.

 

[Sawyer]

That young Ned casting was on point tho.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Davos is a noble soul. He got involved with the Jon situation because he was there, and it was right.

His actions don't make complete sense, however. I can see him wanting to support Jon to get revenge against the Boltons, but so far he seems to have taken Stannis and Shireen's death in stride, and he has never been a fan of Mel before, so I don't know.

 

[mr_j936]

I loved it, especially the prophecy Roose Bolton delivers to his son before getting killed, about if you behave like a mad dog you'll be killed like a mad dog, then he dies the same way he killed Rob Stark. I loved the interaction between Sansa and theon, although I would have liked to see the moment he tells her her brothers are alive. So now as it stands, Sansa has the most accurate info about her remaining family...

And obviously I liked Jon Snow being resurrected. And the honor the wild-lings displayed in the start of the episode that they did indeed show up to fight for Jon Snow.

Was an awesome episode.

 

[mr. peasant]

I loved it, especially the prophecy Roose Bolton delivers to his son before getting killed, about if you behave like a mad dog you'll be killed like a mad dog, then he dies the same way he killed Rob Stark. I loved the interaction between Sansa and theon, although I would have liked to see the moment he tells her her brothers are alive.So now as it stands, Sansa has the most accurate info about her remaining family...

On a similar note, I really would've liked it if Sansa knew that it had been Sandor who'd been travelling with Arya due to her history with him. It would've been interesting to see her reaction to this and her views of the Hound.

And since we're on the topic of Sansa and Theon's conversation, I have a feeling Theon is means to (try to) kill Ramsay this season as a way of repaying his sins to the Stark family by paving the way for the Starks to reclaim Winterfell. When he told Sansa he was planning to go "home", I suspect he was referring to Winterfell and not the Iron Isles.

 

[mr_j936]

On a similar note, I really would've liked it if Sansa knew that it had been Sandor who'd been travelling with Arya due to her history with him. It would've been interesting to see her reaction to this and her views of the Hound.

And since we're on the topic of Sansa and Theon's conversation, I have a feeling Theon is means to (try to) kill Ramsay this season as a way of repaying his sins to the Stark family by paving the way for the Starks to reclaim Winterfell. When he told Sansa he was planning to go "home", I suspect he was referring to Winterfell and not the Iron Isles.

Yes I believe that too, since he thinks he deserves more punishment for what he did...

 

[Angel0fDeath]

Ha! They did it. I'm glad they didn't waste 5 or 6 episodes of teasing. Second episode and BAM! he's back. Now let's see if it's actually him.