Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings General Discussion and Speculation thread

[Dark Raven]

I think it's significant that Simu Liu isn't just the typical pretty boy Asian that the Chinese wanted. If that's all he were, it would reinforce the image that unless you look like one of them you can't be a leading man and considered even eligible as a person. Otherwise you're relegated to all the other stereotypical Asian roles.

Having someone look more like Simu Liu helps the world come more to terms with the fact that Asian people can have all kinds of appearances and yet are still as valuable as anyone else. It might also help both Asians and Westerners to appreciate all kinds of beauty in people. It's not like he's ugly anyway.

 

[Dark Raven]

China doesn't seem to be a big fan of Westernized Chinese led movies. Crazy Rich Asians bombed there. Mulan bombed there. But they love Marvel movies, so the jury is still out.

Marvel should've considered giving Shang Chi and the other characters in this movie Chinese accents and having them speak in Mandarin or Cantonese sometimes. In Black Panther they didn't give T'Challa and all the Wakandans American accents just to make them more palatable to Caucasians. They gave them full African accents and everyone just accepted it, and if they didn't, well that was too bad.

 

[chintai80]

I think it's significant that Simu Liu isn't just the typical pretty boy Asian that the Chinese wanted. If that's all he were, it would reinforce the image that unless you look like one of them you can't be a leading man and considered even eligible as a person. Otherwise you're relegated to all the other stereotypical Asian roles.

Having someone look more like Simu Liu helps the world come more to terms with the fact that Asian people can have all kinds of appearances and yet are still as valuable as anyone else. It might also help both Asians and Westerners to appreciate all kinds of beauty in people. It's not like he's ugly anyway.

i had a friend who was criticizing the casting of simu because he has small eyes / monolids and how he's unattractive by asian standards cuz of that

but get this...my friend has the same type of eyes.
there's basically some sort of projected self-hatred at play here.

i've heard so much of this stuff growing up and i think it's a bunch of bull.

many asian people have small eyes -- beauty standards are largely subjective, but lot of chinese folks see small eyes as "ugly" and treat it as some kind of objective truth.

i think that's a damaging mindset for so many people, esp children when they growing up.

 

[Mister Knight]

I think this movie is going to do more wonders for the Asian-American/Asian-Canadian demographic than just straight up China. Look at Crazy Rich Asians

I couldn't agree more. And I'm stoked to see one of my favorite characters ever getting a blockbuster movie. it's almost a dream.

 

[Rice Eater]

I think it's significant that Simu Liu isn't just the typical pretty boy Asian that the Chinese wanted. If that's all he were, it would reinforce the image that unless you look like one of them you can't be a leading man and considered even eligible as a person. Otherwise you're relegated to all the other stereotypical Asian roles.

Having someone look more like Simu Liu helps the world come more to terms with the fact that Asian people can have all kinds of appearances and yet are still as valuable as anyone else. It might also help both Asians and Westerners to appreciate all kinds of beauty in people. It's not like he's ugly anyway.

Honestly it's shameful that so many people are saying stupid and cruel things about Simu's looks.

But I feel what you said in your 2nd paragraph might be a little ignorant of certain things. In the West, Asian men are seen as attractive compared to others and are often emasculated. As dumb as the complaints are, there is some truth to it. Hollywood rarely cast Asian American men that is traditionally handsome. Especially not as a leading man.

Now I'm gonna go off the deep end a little here but hear me out. Some of us(Asians from Asia and Asian Americans) have built up this conspiracy in our heads that Hollywood sees us a certain way and that's why they continue casting people with certain looks in certain roles to perpetuate stereotypes. There may be no truth to it, but it's still what we see when we see Asian men in hollywood movies most of the time.

That doesn't excuse the criticism that we've seen. That stuff is dumb as hell and I hope it's just a vocal minority who can go away now that they've said their piece. But Hollywood hasn't done a good job of showing off all kinds of Asians(especially men). Having a handsome guy would have actually been a nice change for once instead of the other way around.

I hope this won't be seen as an attack on Simu or something like that. Just a more reasonable explanation of why some of us feel the way we do.

 

[Dark Raven]

Honestly it's shameful that so many people are saying stupid and cruel things about Simu's looks.

But I feel what you said in your 2nd paragraph might be a little ignorant of certain things. In the West, Asian men are seen as attractive compared to others and are often emasculated. As dumb as the complaints are, there is some truth to it. Hollywood rarely cast Asian American men that is traditionally handsome. Especially not as a leading man.

Now I'm gonna go off the deep end a little here but hear me out. Some of us(Asians from Asia and Asian Americans) have built up this conspiracy in our heads that Hollywood sees us a certain way and that's why they continue casting people with certain looks in certain roles to perpetuate stereotypes. There may be no truth to it, but it's still what we see when we see Asian men in hollywood movies most of the time.

That doesn't excuse the criticism that we've seen. That stuff is dumb as hell and I hope it's just a vocal minority who can go away now that they've said their piece. But Hollywood hasn't done a good job of showing off all kinds of Asians(especially men). Having a handsome guy would have actually been a nice change for once instead of the other way around.

I hope this won't be seen as an attack on Simu or something like that. Just a more reasonable explanation of why some of us feel the way we do.

I'm Asian myself and am not speaking from ignorance but experience. I don't think the west see Asian men as more attractive compared to others but on the contrary less attractive than others. Asians are often overlooked and many women won't date them at all including even other Asian women who'd prefer white, black or any other colour.

So having someone like Simu Liu would help open people's minds.

 

[Rice Eater]

I'm Asian myself and am not speaking from ignorance but experience. I don't think the west see Asian men as more attractive compared to others but on the contrary less attractive than others. Asians are often overlooked and many women won't date them at all including even other Asian women who'd prefer white, black or any other colour.

So having someone like Simu Liu would help open people's minds.

I think you misunderstood me because I made grammatical error. In the 2nd sentence of my 2nd paragraph I meant to say "aren't seen as attractive compared to others". Other than that, we're eye to eye on rest. I also hope having someone like Simu in the starring role can open more minds.

And while there is a lot of dumb things being said, I mainly wanted to point out that there is some truth to some of the complaints. That being said, hopefully we can leave this behind and get back to talking about the movie.

 

[chintai80]

i keep rewatching the trailer.
i'm probably hyped as hell for this movie.

i keep thinking the death dealer gonna

Spoiler

turn out to be michelle yeoh...and maybe something crazy like she's shang chi's mother as well... like aye yo this is f***ed up...they basically indoctrinated and abused this kid under the guise of "i did what's best for you" but it was really just for them to use him as their tool.

 

[Rice Eater]

That's very possible considering they don't list who is playing Death Dealer in the credits so far. She could also be the lady that's fighting the Mandarin during the wuxia scene in the woods. Maybe she's playing both characters and is being mind controlled, which would explain her actions in the trailer.

 

[Dark Raven]

I think you misunderstood me because I made grammatical error. In the 2nd sentence of my 2nd paragraph I meant to say "aren't seen as attractive compared to others". Other than that, we're eye to eye on rest. I also hope having someone like Simu in the starring role can open more minds.

And while there is a lot of dumb things being said, I mainly wanted to point out that there is some truth to some of the complaints. That being said, hopefully we can leave this behind and get back to talking about the movie.

I see. Well thanks for clarifying that. There is a huge difference between are and aren't.

I do wish they had someone else other than Awkwafina as the female lead though. She's annoying.

 

[chintai80]

i think awkwafina's funny and i like the stuff i've seen her in so far.

but yea, many people say she's annoying as well -- her style of comedy is an acquired taste.

is she gonna be a love interest?
or are her and shang chi just platonic friends?
it looks like a platonic friendship.

 

[Dark Raven]

i think awkwafina's funny and i like the stuff i've seen her in so far.

but yea, many people say she's annoying as well -- her style of comedy is an acquired taste.

is she gonna be a love interest?
or are her and shang chi just platonic friends?
it looks like a platonic friendship.

I think Marvel should've given Shang Chi a love interest. While it's not necessary for other Marvel heroes, the fact that Shang Chi is an Asian man makes this different. By not giving him one, it's reinforcing the message that Asian men aren't capable of either being love interests or having love interests but must always be content with just platonic friends in life.

And even if Awkwafina were a love interest, it also still sends the message that the annoying, somewhat nerdy plucky sidekick type is all that Asian men can aspire to or are capable of having instead of someone who is more of a traditional leading woman type. Except of course if you're Henry Golding, but that's because he's not pure Asian so that makes him more palatable to the opposite sex because there's a bit of white in there.

With a big Marvel movie, Feige had the opportunity to reshape movie goers' views and prejudices. Hopefully he'd do something like that for a sequel and take that into account.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I think Katy is going to be like Darcy in the first two Thor movies: a bit of an annoyance. WandaVision did turn me around on Darcy to the point where I hope we see Darcy back in the MCU again soon. We'll see about Katy in this movie.

 

[chintai80]

what if they're platonic drinking buddies who get drunk and end up making out with each other and it gets all awkward between them afterward.

cuz that happens. lol

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Correct me if I'm wrong but do Asians in Asian countries expect male stars to look like the guys from a boy band?

Or is it because Simu looks too SouthEast Asian?

 

[Dark Raven]

Correct me if I'm wrong but do Asians in Asian countries expect male stars to look like the guys from a boy band?

Or is it because Simu looks too SouthEast Asian?

I don't know. Maybe they do. I know some expect their leading men to look that way which only perpetuates the myth that all other Asian men are ugly. It would look dumb anyway if Shang Chi looked like he belonged in a boy band.

 

[chintai80]

simu has very northern chinese features. he looks very ordinary. but still handsome, imo.

i mean, the guys suppose to be a master martial artist not some prada model. lol

was jackie chan and jet li pretty boys? nope.

but lot of the audience in asia want some supermodel for this big tentpole superhero film.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Why are people assuming Shang-Chi has no love interest in this movie? Awkwafina may only start out as his friend but their relationship might blossom into something more; Bruce Wayne and Rachel Dawes’ relationship in BB started out similarly. There’s also Fala Chen’s character. I don’t know why people are jumping to conclusions when we’ve only seen a two-minute trailer.

 

[chintai80]

the trailer showed them partying and drinking together.
i want their arc to be as platonic friends, then they get drunk, make out with each other, and then it becomes awkward for next couple of months of their friendship.

it will be relatable. because that is whats happened to me before. except the part where your dad is the leader of an international criminal organization. lol

 

[Rice Eater]

Correct me if I'm wrong but do Asians in Asian countries expect male stars to look like the guys from a boy band?

Or is it because Simu looks too SouthEast Asian?

If you're thinking Korean boy band look, no, not that. But if you look at the leading men in Korean or Chinese dramas, then probably yes. Simu doesn't look too Southeast Asian, he's just not considered very handsome according to their beauty standards.

A lot of the people talking are just hateful trolls. Others are still petty and hateful as well but do have a point to a certain extent. They've seen how Hollywood has been casting Asian men for decades and it's gotten to the point where they think Hollywood intentionally cast less handsome Asian men to continue portraying us as less attractive and desirable.

I'm not gonna lie, that idea has definitely gone on in my head as well and is a thing among Asian Americans. I don't think Simu is that attractive, but who cares in the end. I'm rooting hard for him and this movie to do amazing. The haters are loud right now but in the end I think it will do fine in China.

 

[Dark Raven]

If you're thinking Korean boy band look, no, not that. But if you look at the leading men in Korean or Chinese dramas, then probably yes. Simu doesn't look too Southeast Asian, he's just not considered very handsome according to their beauty standards.

A lot of the people talking are just hateful trolls. Others are still petty and hateful as well but do have a point to a certain extent. They've seen how Hollywood has been casting Asian men for decades and it's gotten to the point where they think Hollywood intentionally cast less handsome Asian men to continue portraying us as less attractive and desirable.

I'm not gonna lie, that idea has definitely gone on in my head as well and is a thing among Asian Americans. I don't think Simu is that attractive, but who cares in the end. I'm rooting hard for him and this movie to do amazing. The haters are loud right now but in the end I think it will do fine in China.

I would agree that Simu isn't as attractive as some other Asian leading men, but that's precisely why I'm hoping that, since he has been cast, he will still change people's perceptions of Asians. If the West only see the extremes of attractive Asians and non-attractive Asians but not someone somewhere in between in a leading man role, then they won't think there's anything else out there and will only have a limited perception.

It's by more constant exposure to different types that people can begin to see them as more attractive. If people can begin to see that someone like Simu Liu can be considered attractive to others, then there's hope for all the rest of us who aren't Hollywood stars. There are many white actors who wouldn't be considered all that attractive but somehow women still fawn all over them, perhaps because they've managed to see another side of them and they're exposed to these people all the time. So the more you see someone or a certain type, the more you warm up to the idea of them.

 

[Rice Eater]

There are many white actors who wouldn't be considered all that attractive but somehow women still fawn all over them, perhaps because they've managed to see another side of them and they're exposed to these people all the time. So the more you see someone or a certain type, the more you warm up to the idea of them.

Very well said, I especially like this last part. Exposure(or the lack of on this case) is definitely a big reason contributing factor for why things are the way they are right now.

 

[legendkillin]

Since this is now the 1st movie after the End Game events I wonder how they plan on setting up phase 4 through it. I hope Shang provides the swagger to have the audience thinking about what other heroes they want to see him interact with.

With shows like Wandavision and Falcon already out though and giving up the world after Endgame, it maybe less of an impact in the 1st movie but still want to see how they deal with returning.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Since this is now the 1st movie after the End Game events I wonder how they plan on setting up phase 4 through it. I hope Shang provides the swagger to have the audience thinking about what other heroes they want to see him interact with.

With shows like Wandavision and Falcon already out though and giving up the world after Endgame, it maybe less of an impact in the 1st movie but still want to see how they deal with returning.

I am curious to see who the first hero he will interact with. He's an Earthbound hero so it's likely he will interact with one of the other MCU heroes sooner rather than later, likely in mid-credits or post credits. He'll do something to attract the attention of an established MCU character, but I don't know who.

 

[Mantis Rapture]

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