Superman: THE ANIMATED SERIES VS. SPIDER-MAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES ?

[flickchick85]

Also another Green Lantern show fan?

I love it so much I happily double-dipped - bought the half-season DVD's as they came out and then the full-series blu-ray when that was finally released, and if it ever gets a 4k release, I'll triple-dip without hesitation. I personally wish that show had been revived instead of Young Justice (as they were both cancelled at the same time), but I get that YJ was more popular, so oh well.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I love it so much I happily double-dipped - bought the half-season DVD's as they came out and then the full-series blu-ray when that was finally released, and if it ever gets a 4k release, I'll triple-dip without hesitation. I personally wish that show had been revived instead of Young Justice (as they were both cancelled at the same time), but I get that YJ was more popular, so oh well.

I am with you. I have read me some Green Lantern over the years, so I was hopeful, but it it surpassed all my expectations. By contrast, my brother wasn't, but instantly fell in love with the concept and the characters. The CGI art style which can be a turn off, even worked for us. It was the perfect little adventure show, that made learning the mythos fun and easy.

I was so sad when it got cancelled. What kills me about it is unlike YJ which for me lost a lot when they decided to time jump, GL felt like it had so much story to tell. Endless possibilities, with the adaptation of stories and characters we never got.

 

[Awest66]

I really like both shows but I'll give it to Superman on this one. It never went off the rails like Spider-Man did in it's later seasons and at it's worst, It was still a perfectly solid superhero cartoon.

 

[flickchick85]

I am with you. I have read me some Green Lantern over the years, so I was hopeful, but it it surpassed all my expectations. By contrast, my brother wasn't, but instantly fell in love with the concept and the characters. The CGI art style which can be a turn off, even worked for us. It was the perfect little adventure show, that made learning the mythos fun and easy.

I was so sad when it got cancelled. What kills me about it is unlike YJ which for me lost a lot when they decided to time jump, GL felt like it had so much story to tell. Endless possibilities, with the adaptation of stories and characters we never got.

Yeah I thought I'd hate the animation style, but it actually ended up being perfect for that subject matter, imo. Sadly, I think that was a primary deterrent that kept a lot of people from giving it a chance in the first place, which is a shame. But yeah, totally agreed on GL having a lot more potential for future stories. YJ lost me pretty quickly after S1, while GL was only getting better (and it started out really strong already).

 

[Batmannerism]

Yeah I thought I'd hate the animation style, but it actually ended up being perfect for that subject matter, imo. Sadly, I think that was a primary deterrent that kept a lot of people from giving it a chance in the first place, which is a shame. But yeah, totally agreed on GL having a lot more potential for future stories. YJ lost me pretty quickly after S1, while GL was only getting better (and it started out really strong already).

GL is up there with Firefly for shows that were cancelled too soon. So many great ideas and so many more they could have introduced...

 

[Neil McCauley]

As far as my preferences go:

Comics, DC. I was a big John Byrne fan and enjoyed his runs on XMen and Fantastic Four - and I read Xmen pretty religiously during the 80s, before they turned to crap.

But, otherwise its DC for me, Superman, Batman, Green Lantern , Flash- I just prefer the DC characters.

Animated: DC by a mile, their animated films and series are much better than Marvel's.

Live action:

Big screen = the MCU formula works for me, its cohesive and IMO has created a much better mythology than the disjointed approach DC has taken. It's so hit and miss - I liked Shazam, Man of Steel and Wonder Woman. Justice League was okay as was Aquaman but B v S and Suicide Squad were. Does Joker even count ?

The MCU is a very different story. For me, it's so well done that even characters I didn't like - like Cap, I used to be a big Cap hater - I really enjoy their films ( Winter Soldier and Civil War are on my top 10 list of cbms) I mean, I could care less about Ant Man but his films are great fun.

Spider Man films ? I'll go see them but Spidey's far from my favourite superhero.

X-Men films ? Enjoy them, but nothing could do the classic Xmen stories justice ( like late 70s early 80s).

I understand your preference and it looks good and reasonable. Both TWS and CW are in my top 5 CBMs aswell.

Anyways as far as it goes here’s my reason

Live action: Marvel but I think DC has some great films and some in my top 10.

Animated; DC but it’s a bit close due to Marvel having some good series.

Games: Again, DC but liked animated.

Comics: DC has some of the greatest comics and characters meanwhile Marvel has more characters and stories that I like at the moment. I mostly read vertigo, Superman and Batman nowdays. So gotta be a tie.

TV: Marvel again, even their disappointing seasons like JJ 2 are better than CW crap and while DC has some good shows, the Netflix stuff is better.

Characters : I got 4 DC heroes in my top 10 and 6 marvel heroes in my top 10.

1. Batman

2. Spidey

3. Iron Man

4. Superman

5. Captain America

6. Wonder Woman

7. Hulk

8. Daredevil

9. Thor

10. Flash

villains: DC got my favorite villains and many others.

1. Joker

2. Magneto

3. Bane

4. Two-Face

5. Green Goblin

6. Kingpin

7. Venom

8. Lex Luthor

9. Ultron

10. Ra's Al Ghul.

Teams: Marvel wins, more variety and quantity.

Mystics/bricks/magic stuff: it’s about even

street levelers: Marvel wins.

Overall, I'm going with Marvel probably hit narrowly and it can change in the future or a tie. Not sure

 

[Neil McCauley]

Yeah I thought I'd hate the animation style, but it actually ended up being perfect for that subject matter, imo. Sadly, I think that was a primary deterrent that kept a lot of people from giving it a chance in the first place, which is a shame. But yeah, totally agreed on GL having a lot more potential for future stories. YJ lost me pretty quickly after S1, while GL was only getting better (and it started out really strong already).

Green Lantern: The Animated Series (TV Series 2011–2013) - Episodes - IMDb

Is this are you talking about? A good series or not?

 

[Captain Tired]

I understand your preference and it looks good and reasonable. Both TWS and CW are in my top 5 CBMs aswell.

Anyways as far as it goes here’s my reason

Live action: Marvel but I think DC has some great films and some in my top 10.

Animated; DC but it’s a bit close due to Marvel having some good series.

Games: Again, DC but liked animated.

Comics: DC has some of the greatest comics and characters meanwhile Marvel has more characters and stories that I like at the moment. I mostly read vertigo, Superman and Batman nowdays. So gotta be a tie.

TV: Marvel again, even their disappointing seasons like JJ 2 are better than CW crap and while DC has some good shows, the Netflix stuff is better.

Characters : I got 4 DC heroes in my top 10 and 6 marvel heroes in my top 10.

1. Batman

2. Spidey

3. Iron Man

4. Superman

5. Captain America

6. Wonder Woman

7. Hulk

8. Daredevil

9. Thor

10. Flash

villains: DC got my favorite villains and many others.

1. Joker

2. Magneto

3. Bane

4. Two-Face

5. Green Goblin

6. Kingpin

7. Venom

8. Lex Luthor

9. Ultron

10. Ra's Al Ghul.

Teams: Marvel wins, more variety and quantity.

Mystics/bricks/magic stuff: it’s about even

street levelers: Marvel wins.

Overall, I'm going with Marvel probably hit narrowly and it can change in the future or a tie. Not sure

I'm just gonna keep things simple and say DC.

 

[Neil McCauley]

I'm just gonna keep things simple and say DC.

Fair, I like that people have different opinions as long as they are respectful.

But I will never understand why people hate and nitpick TDKR and (to a lesser extent) AoU to the point SM3 is comparable.

 

[flickchick85]

Green Lantern: The Animated Series (TV Series 2011–2013) - Episodes - IMDb

Is this are you talking about? A good series or not?

Yep. Great stuff.

 

[Neil McCauley]

Yep. Great stuff.

I will try it, but so DC is comparable to Marvel in everything except movies right? Because for now, I am enjoying DC animated stuff more.

 

[Batmannerism]

Green Lantern: The Animated Series (TV Series 2011–2013) - Episodes - IMDb

Is this are you talking about? A good series or not?

That's the one that I meant. Really enjoyable.

 

[flickchick85]

I will try it, but so DC is comparable to Marvel in everything except movies right? Because for now, I am enjoying DC animated stuff more.

I personally find DC to be better than Marvel in both comics and animation, but everybody has their preferences.

 

[Neil McCauley]

That's the one that I meant. Really enjoyable.

I will try it.

 

[Neil McCauley]

I personally find DC to be better than Marvel in both comics and animation, but everybody has their preferences.

fair enough, I understand but for now I got DC in animation and tie in comics.

I have a lot of stuff to watch and read so I can’t say much at the moment, but I do appreciate both brands

 

[Herofan]

You don't see the problem with a hero who has a terrific rouges gallery of villains, but has one villain over shadow all the others and drive the story for five seasons of the show to the point where the good villains are reduced to being lackeys to him.

BTAS never did that. Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon never did that. That's one of many reasons why they're held in a higher regard than STAS ever will be.

As I recall Spectacular did have several villains working for Norman Osborn or Tombstone quite similarly to how several villains worked for the Kingpin in TAS.

For example, compare how one of Spidey's A-list rogues, Doc Ock, was treated in each show. STAS gave him a great intro episode in season 1. He was established as a clever, ruthless, and ego centric villain with a deep passion for science who had a past link with Peter. A teacher/student relationship. Peter looked up to Octavius as a great scientist. He became a villain through having his work shat on by the Hardy Foundation, and it gave him a bit of nuance. He wasn't just a "MWAHAHAHA I am an evil scientist" type villain. There was some good character stuff in that episode. After that he was just a servant to Kingpin. A member of his Insidious Six, or just a thug to deliver hostages to him.

True the depiction of Dr. Octopus was pretty underwhelming, and particularly too subservient, though I think still pretty decent and entertaining.

Ock in the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon was a dominating force of villainy on his own steam. Introduced as a meek repressed scientist at Oscorp. In two seasons we saw him lead the Sinister Six, carry out his famous Master Planner operation, and engage in a gang war with Tombstone and Silvermane. Three of Ock's most famous comic book stories done so well in just two seasons. All the time he was his own villain doing his own thing. He was the leader/mastermind. Being so true to the comic book character.

I thought he was an interesting take with potential pre-transformation to villainy, then his going so evil and ruthless so abruptly felt too rushed, not very believable, as did his blaming of and rage against Spider-Man.

SSM is still the purest interpretation of Spidey ever put on screen.

I liked better, among other strengths, how TAS focused on Peter working as a photographer for the Daily Bugle and his relationships with people there and its take on his romantic life.

 

[The Joker]

As I recall Spectacular did have several villains working for Norman Osborn or Tombstone quite similarly to how several villains worked for the Kingpin in TAS.

You recall incorrectly. Unless you're talking about the likes of Rhino and Sandman. Name one villain who is not lackey status in the comic books like Rhino, Sandman, Shocker etc, that was treated like that in SSM.

True the depiction of Dr. Octopus was pretty underwhelming, and particularly too subservient, though I think still pretty decent and entertaining.

I prefer a Doc Ock who gives the orders rather than be the lackey. You know being true to the nature of the character and one of the best aspects of him that makes him one of the A-list villains.

I thought he was an interesting take with potential pre-transformation to villainy, then his going so evil and ruthless so abruptly felt too rushed, not very believable, as did his blaming of and rage against Spider-Man.

Given they showed him for several previous episodes involved in shady activities with Osborn, including creating super villains like Sandman, and gave a glimpse inside his mind to show he had suppressed inner rage and violence, it was very believable.

More believable than the TAS version who went from nice Science camp teacher and wholesome scientist to super villain.

I liked better, among other strengths, how TAS focused on Peter working as a photographer for the Daily Bugle and his relationships with people there and its take on his romantic life.

I can only think of one episode in the entire five seasons that had any focus on Peter's relationship with the Bugle people, and that was when Robbie was framed by Tombstone in season 4. Even then Jonah was the star of that episode. Peter was just along for the ride.

SSM handled Peter's romantic life exceptionally well, including both of his most famous love interests from the comics, as well as including the whole High School life aspect and its associated characters. Flash, Liz, Sally, Kenny, MJ, Harry, Gwen etc. They nailed it.

All this achieved in a mere two seasons. More than TAS could do in five.

 

[Herofan]

You recall incorrectly. Unless you're talking about the likes of Rhino and Sandman. Name one villain who is not lackey status in the comic books like Rhino, Sandman, Shocker etc, that was treated like that in SSM.

Not sure who you consider a lackey rather than one of the good or terrific villains but I consider Sandman and Mysterio more than just lackeys. What villains in TAS aside from Smythe, Dr. Octopus and, at times, the Six (which includes Rhino and Shocker who you consider lackeys) (and the Black Cat) were shown as working for the Kingpin to where you said they all were and he was driving the story?

I can only think of one episode in the entire five seasons that had any focus on Peter's relationship with the Bugle people, and that was when Robbie was framed by Tombstone in season 4.

From early on adding Eddie, having Jameson willing to fire him, Spider-Man often saving Jameson, Peter being pretty resentful of having to work for the Bugle (considering it a dream to quit) and how it portrayed Spider-Man, Jameson paying for Murdock to defend Peter, as well as Robbie's conflict with his son and past with Tombstone and encouraging Peter to go on, I think much better use of the Daily Bugle characters (though the show did have more time and was set at a later stage).

SSM handled Peter's romantic life exceptionally well, including both of his most famous love interests from the comics, as well as including the whole High School life aspect and its associated characters. Flash, Liz, Sally, Kenny, MJ, Harry, Gwen etc. They nailed it.

TAS did skip the high school era (though I think still had a decent Flash Thompson as a diminishingly-important old rival) but I think that's a lot better than overfocusing on it or presenting it in a pretty different way from the '60s comics (though change in an adaptation is inevitable and can be good). In the Spectacular high school it seemed like Flash and Sally were the only ones who particularly disliked Peter, with Flash not being particularly popular, Peter having his own significant handful of friends, and a lot of the other students indifferent to both Peter in himself and Flash's animosity against him.

 

[The Joker]

Not sure who you consider a lackey rather than one of the good or terrific villains but I consider Sandman and Mysterio more than just lackeys. What villains in TAS aside from Smythe, Dr. Octopus and, at times, the Six (which includes Rhino and Shocker who you consider lackeys) (and the Black Cat) were shown as working for the Kingpin to where you said they all were and he was driving the story?

If you consider Sandman and Mysterio more than just lackeys then that's another two strikes against TAS for you. Mysterio was treated as a lackey in TAS, and Sandman was omitted from the show altogether. Ock, Vulture, Mysterio, Smythe, Chameleon (one of the most intelligent villains who never even spoke a word in the TAS show), Hobgoblin etc....all great mastermind villains in their own right who spent the bulk of their stay on the show serving under Kingpin.

Kingpin was even heavily involved in Green Goblin's, Venom's and Black Cat's origins. Kingpin seeped into almost every orifice of the show.

From early on adding Eddie, having Jameson willing to fire him, Spider-Man often saving Jameson, Peter being pretty resentful of having to work for the Bugle (considering it a dream to quit) and how it portrayed Spider-Man, Jameson paying for Murdock to defend Peter, as well as Robbie's conflict with his son and past with Tombstone and encouraging Peter to go on, I think much better use of the Daily Bugle characters (though the show did have more time and was set at a later stage).

That's not building character relationships. Eddie worked at the Bugle for the briefest spell and it there minimal interaction between him and Peter. Spider-Man often saving Jameson didn't evolve. It was just a constant string of ingratitude and blame from Jameson. Jameson paying Murdock to defend Peter.....Peter never even knew about it. It was a last second revelation at the end of that Daredevil two parter and never spoke of again. Robbie's conflict with his son had nothing to do with Peter. That was all part of his feud with Tombstone and how Tombstone used Robbie's son to get revenge on him by getting him in his gang.

So I'm not sure why you hold the Bugle aspect in such high esteem for Peter. They never really explored any of the character relationships between Peter and those whom he worked with.

TAS did skip the high school era (though I think still had a decent Flash Thompson as a diminishingly-important old rival) but I think that's a lot better than overfocusing on it or presenting it in a pretty different way from the '60s comics (though change in an adaptation is inevitable and can be good). In the Spectacular high school it seemed like Flash and Sally were the only ones who particularly disliked Peter, with Flash not being particularly popular, Peter having his own significant handful of friends, and a lot of the other students indifferent to both Peter in himself and Flash's animosity against him.

TAS skipped over any kind of social circle for Peter period. Harry was the only friend he had, and MJ was the only love interest (after he got over his brief crush on Felicia). SSM presented an ensemble cast, and managed to focus on more than one girl in Peter's life. Even more it developed several of these characters. Harry, Gwen, MJ, Flash, Liz etc all got some character development and felt like they had a purpose in the show beyond just being names in the high school crowd.

Its one of the many things SSM excelled at. Character development.

 

[Herofan]

Mysterio was treated as a lackey in TAS

In the show he was not a worst-nightmare type threat but I think a worthy, challenging opponent with both his intellect and technology/creativity.

and Sandman was omitted from the show altogether.

Yes, an obvious lack and a way that Spectacular was better.

Ock, Vulture, Mysterio, Smythe, Chameleon (one of the most intelligent villains who never even spoke a word in the TAS show), Hobgoblin etc....all great mastermind villains in their own right who spent the bulk of their stay on the show serving under Kingpin.

Kingpin was even heavily involved in Green Goblin's, Venom's and Black Cat's origins.

Him being involved with Black Cat, especially her powers, was an element from the comics, albeit later on than her beginning, and I think the involvement with Venom was pretty minimal and very indirect. I thought Hobgoblin and Vulture were badasses, strong villains, rather than generally subservient and I'm not a big fan of Chameleon.

Spider-Man often saving Jameson didn't evolve. It was just a constant string of ingratitude and blame from Jameson.

I thought it worked and was very enjoyable, especially with contrasting with the show admitting that he could be decent both with Peter and as a journalist otherwise.

Robbie's conflict with his son had nothing to do with Peter. That was all part of his feud with Tombstone and how Tombstone used Robbie's son to get revenge on him by getting him in his gang.

Not much of a relationship with Peter but I think strong stories for the character.

TAS skipped over any kind of social circle for Peter period. Harry was the only friend he had, and MJ was the only love interest (after he got over his brief crush on Felicia). SSM presented an ensemble cast, and managed to focus on more than one girl in Peter's life. Even more it developed several of these characters. Harry, Gwen, MJ, Flash, Liz etc all got some character development and felt like they had a purpose in the show beyond just being names in the high school crowd.

I think Peter generally did have few friends, tending to loner, in the comics and those mostly being women. Though not heavily focused on, Peter being attracted to, caring for both Mary Jane and Felicia and/but growing closer to Mary Jane was an element through the first two or three seasons. The show also had Peter and Spider-Man having good bonds with Connors and Flash having decent elements, even growth.

 

[The Joker]

In the show he was not a worst-nightmare type threat but I think a worthy, challenging opponent with both his intellect and technology/creativity.

In his first episode yes. After that he was a follower. Season 1 was the best for most of the villains. Their first episode let them shine on their own without any Kingpin involvement e.g. Ock, Scorpion, Mysterio, Chameleon etc. All downhill once season 2 rolled around.

Him being involved with Black Cat, especially her powers, was an element from the comics, albeit later on than her beginning, and I think the involvement with Venom was pretty minimal and very indirect. I thought Hobgoblin and Vulture were badasses, strong villains, rather than generally subservient and I'm not a big fan of Chameleon.

The entire Black Cat origin two parter was based entirely on Kingpin wanting the super soldier serum, and he had Ock as a lackey running around doing chores for him. The Venom three parter had the first two parts riding heavily on Kingpin wanting the promethium X. The abduction of John Jameson. Shocker and Rhino being the lackeys for Kingpin etc. You're obviously more easily impressed than I am if you view Hobby and Vulture that way given how they spent most of their time in Kingpin's influence. Whether you're a fan of Chameleon or not, it was a big mistreatment of a prominent villain.

I thought it worked and was very enjoyable, especially with contrasting with the show admitting that he could be decent both with Peter and as a journalist otherwise.

It was enjoyable for comedic value of Jameson's rantings. But in terms of any character exploration or relationship building there was none.

Not much of a relationship with Peter but I think strong stories for the character.

For Robbie yes. But you said it developed Peter's relationship with the Bugle characters. If only it had.

I think Peter generally did have few friends, tending to loner, in the comics and those mostly being women. Though not heavily focused on, Peter being attracted to, caring for both Mary Jane and Felicia and/but growing closer to Mary Jane was an element through the first two or three seasons. The show also had Peter and Spider-Man having good bonds with Connors and Flash having decent elements, even growth.

Any port in a storm. Aside from Lizard's origin episode, I can't think of a time when Peter had any sort of friendship moments with Connors. His Spider-Man generally just used Connors any time he had a health issue or Science problem e.g. the whole dragged out neogenic mutation in season 2. Flash had some good moments with Deborah in the latter seasons when they started dating, showing a more caring side. But that was it. Never tried to develop anything with him and Peter like the comics did, when they eventually became friends. This is what I'm talking about. These characters never were utilized in service with the main character. Unlike in SSM where Peter developed growing/evolving relationships with his supporting cast that developed both them and him as a character.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Recently I have decided to start watching some animated series, and I started with Batman The Animated Series (my favorite hero) and it's been good for now.

Superman and Spider-Man are some of my favorite characters in comics, but I did not really watch these two series. So which one do you think is better and I should watch first? It will be fresh and I heard they are the best cartoons/TV series about the character.

I'm going to give a slight edge to Spider-man:TAS, but both of these series are criminally underrated.

With Spidey's series, the realistic designs of the characters build on previous Spidey incarnations like Spider-man & His Amazing Friends, and it was also part of a comic book-style universe that laid the template for the MCU. Not only did Spider-man start out as a young adult on this show, school was rarely the backdrop. He was an young adult with problems that related to adulthood and his role in a massive tapestry of superheroes and supervillains. That's something that has unfortunately gone by the wayside with Marvel's non-print adaptations of Spidey since the company now seems uncomfortable with letting him age too far out of his teen years.

Likewise, Superman:TAS showed just how much potential Superman's universe has, but it's something that DC (or more specifically, Warner) has only began to showcase in live-action. S:TAS didn't shy away from Superman dealing with multiple cosmic threats and having many other DC characters cross over into this series. This show often gets eclipsed in by Batman's animated series, but it's every bit as good.

 

[Monte Cristo]

STAS is the template they should follow cinematically, and yet look at where we are. It's one of the best things in the character's history. But alas, I'm more of a Spider-Man fan and that's where my vote goes.

 

[Batmannerism]

STAS is the template they should follow cinematically, and yet look at where we are. It's one of the best things in the character's history. But alas, I'm more of a Spider-Man fan and that's where my vote goes.

Last year I bought the entire animated JL series- it was one of my best purchases ever.
Whenever I watch an episode I silently scream that this should have been the blueprint for the DCEU........but despite all my rage I'm still just a fan in a cage.

 

[MbJ]

Both shows are great but I have to give the edge to Superman because it had an actual animation budget.