The Batman - Rate And Review Thread (Spoilers)

7/10

Good: Selina, cinematography, score, Penguin, Riddler, Batman

Average: Bruce, Gordon, Alfred

Poor: narrative all over the place, keeps switching from a mystery to a mob boss film to dramatic elements that don't land imo (Thomas Wayne, etc).
 
9/10. absolutely fantastic film. Bravo to Matt Reeves, and everybody involved. Every single actor involved here did an incredible job, especially Pattinson and Dano. I had a blast! Gonna give it a 2nd viewing today.
 
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Loved this movie, the tone and atmosphere was just incredible and exactly what I imagined my ideal Batman movie to be. Felt like we leapt into the comic books at certain points, especially with Selena in Year One.

I did start to feel it's length at the end but was ok with it because I just liked being in the world Reeves constructed.

Not a huge fan of the implications of flooding in Gotham, possible NML/Zero Year adaptations, but we'll see where it goes.
 
Oh and thanks for throwing in a bunch of woke virtual signaling, that always helps a bad movie.

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I'd give it a good 8/10.

I've said it in other threads, but as a film I don't think it surpasses The Dark Knight, but as a Batman film, I think this tops them all. This movie grabs you immediately from the start and for the next three hours it does. Not. Let. Go. I was instantly transported into the world and I felt so immersed in it as if I was reading one of the great Batman comics like Year One or Long Halloween. Matt Reeves definitely knows the character and delivered something really special here. Some of the other masters here behind the scenes were Greig Fraser with his spectacular cinematography and of course Michael Giacchino, who gave us the best Batman score since the Burton/Elfman days.

And that cast was just....perfect. Not a weak link to be found, everyone was firing on all cylinders. Just like that awesome Batmobile intro which made my seat shake while watching it in IMAX.

Pattinson is amazing and he really gave us a compelling Batman. It was the first time in a Batman movie where I felt that it really hammered home that Batman is Bruce's true identity, and Pattinson nailed that aspect in spades.

I loved Zoe Kravitz's Selina. I didn't really know what to expect from her because the only films I had previously seen her in were X-Men: First Class and Mad Max: Fury Road, neither of which she had much to do in, but she really shined here.

Besides Pattinson, Paul Dano's Riddler was my other favorite performance in the movie. The dude was TERRIFYING and he might be my second favorite Batman villain performance after Heath's Joker.

Colin Farrell stole the show as Penguin in his limited screentime. In the beginning I wondered why he was cast instead of a dude who naturally fit the description more but he was so perfect here that I completely understood why Reeves chose him.

Jeffrey Wright is one of those actors who I enjoy in anything he's in, so him being on point as Gordon was probably the least surprising thing about the movie. I did love how he really treated Batman as a person unlike the rest of the GCPD treating him like some sort of otherworldly being.

John Turturro's Falcone looked like he was ripped straight from the comics. I can't remember the last time I enjoyed a performance of his this much. Definitely way more imposing than the Falcone from Begins (No disrespect to Tom Wilkinson, of course).

Last but not least is Andy Serkis, who I thought was great even though Alfred wasn't in it a whole lot. Without going into spoiler territory, he really brought a lot of emotional backbone to the movie.

Some complaints I've seen were about the length, but it really didn't feel that long to me because it was so well paced. I was just amused at how dark it got in certain places (mostly having to do with the Riddler). I've said it before but I do not envy whoever was responsible for marketing this to the younger crowd with the storybooks and things like that. They probably could have gone for an R-rating because I can't see many parents dragging their little ones to this due to the length alone.

I can't wait to go back to Reeves's Gotham. The series, the sequels... I want it all and I want it now.
 
I've just finished watching it half an hour ago. These are my raw thoughts fresh in my mind.

First and foremost Pattinson was terrific as Batman. The voice, expressions, movement.....he had it all. Someone else mentioned this on the forums here, but I also loved how his Batman was treated kind of like a boogeyman like Michael Myers in the Halloween movies. That was very cool. His Bruce Wayne on the other hand I found lacking. He seemed to have one tone and one facial expression in every scene. I'm hoping his Bruce becomes a bit more versatile emotionally and personality wise in the sequels. But right now I'm judging him in this movie and he wasn't up to par on the Bruce Wayne I enjoy.

Zoe Kravitz did a great job as Selina Kyle/Catwoman. Feisty, bad ass, sexy, and brought the emotional vulnerability of an angry Selina when she needed to. Good chemistry with Pattinson too which is always a plus. The Bat and the Cat should always click together.

Jeffrey Wright was a solid Jim Gordon. It was wonderful seeing him share so many scenes with Batman. I don't think any Batman movie has had this many Batman/Gordon interactions in one movie. Seeing them work together on the crime scenes, trying to solve the riddles together etc. Great stuff. Another pivotal relationship they got right.

Andy Serkis as Alfred.....he did fine in the scenes he had. My problem was he didn't really have much to do. In some of his scenes he was rehashing material we'd already seen in previous Batman movies like chiding Bruce about his family's legacy and keeping up the Wayne name.

Now onto the baddies...

Starting with my favorite one; Colin Farrell as The Penguin. Stole the show for me as far as the villains go. He was terrific. Unrecognizable as Oswald "Oz" Cobblepot. Some of his dialogue was flat out hilarious, especially the scene where he's being interrogated by Batman and Gordon and he insults their intelligence for not understanding the riddle properly. The Batman fan in me was hoping to see a trick umbrella loaded with a machine gun or something but that's ok. This seemed to be more of an Oswald rising to be the true criminal Penguin. Especially with how the movie left him. More of Farrell's Pengy in the sequels please.

John Turturro's Falcone was very good. Had that right balance of smarmy sleazy arrogance and ruthlessness.
When Selina scratched his face I thought oh cool he's going to have those classic scratches on his face just like the comics. Then they kill him 2 minutes later lol. Oh well.

Now the main villain Paul Dano's Riddler. He was sparsely used throughout the movie. Predominately masked, facial expressions hidden, and issuing threats and clues over grainy video footage. Not the sort of Riddler this Batman fan is used to seeing. That being said I still enjoyed this Zodiac killer type take on him. Dano brought the crazy and the creepy when he needed to. His scene with Batman in Arkham was top notch.

Regarding other aspects of the movie, the fight scenes and action scenes in general were terrific. That car chase between Batman and Penguin was the highlight for me. Speaking of which I love the new Batmobile. That intro to it was so cool. Gotham City looked great. A dirty rain soaked mess. The story overall was fine but there was things about it I didn't much care for. I didn't feel like Batman really went on a journey in this one.
I don't know what the point of the whole Thomas Wayne corruption thing was. To make Bruce doubt his father for 20 minutes only to find out from Alfred he wasn't a bad guy? Just did not get the point of all that. There was no pay off to it. Bruce didn't gain or lose anything from it. Just felt like some filler plot to pass the time and to give Alfred an emotional scene with Bruce.
I think the three hour run time was excessive. This movie could have sliced off 20-30 minutes.

Overall I give it a very solid 8/10. A great movie. A great Batman movie. Matt Reeves did brilliantly.
 
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I'm just finished watching it half an hour ago. These are my raw thoughts fresh in my mind.

First and foremost Pattinson was terrific as Batman. The voice, expressions, movement.....he had it all. Someone else mentioned this on the forums here, but I also loved how his Batman was treated kind of like a boogeyman like Michael Myers in the Halloween movies. That was very cool. His Bruce Wayne on the other hand I found lacking. He seemed to have one tone and one facial expression in every scene. I'm hoping his Bruce becomes a bit more versatile emotionally and personality wise in the sequels. But right now I'm judging him in this movie and he wasn't up to par on the Bruce Wayne I enjoy.

Zoe Kravitz was a terrific Selina Kyle/Catwoman. Feisty, bad ass, sexy, and brought the emotional vulnerability of an angry Selina when she needed to. Good chemistry with Pattinson too which is always a plus. The Bat and the Cat should always click together.

Jeffrey Wright was a solid Jim Gordon. It was wonderful seeing him share so many scenes with Batman. I don't think any Batman movie has had this many Batman/Gordon interactions in one movie. Seeing them work together on the crime scenes, trying to solve the riddles together etc. Great stuff. Another pivotal relationship they got right.

Andy Serkis as Alfred.....he did fine in the scenes he had. My problem was he didn't really have much to do. In some of his scenes he was rehashing material we'd already seen in previous Batman movies like chiding Bruce about his family's legacy and keeping up the Wayne name.

Now onto the baddies...

Starting with my favorite one; Colin Farrell as The Penguin. Stole the show for me as far as the villains go. He was terrific. Unrecognizable as Oswald "Oz" Cobblepot. Some of his dialogue was flat out hilarious, especially the scene where he's being interrogated by Batman and Gordon and he insults their intelligence for not understanding the riddle properly. The Batman fan in me was hoping to see a trick umbrella loaded with a machine gun or something but that's ok. This seemed to be more of an Oswald rising to the be the true criminal Penguin. Especially with how the movie left him. More of Farrell's Pengy in the sequels please.

John Turturro's Falcone was very good. Had that right balance of smarmy sleazy arrogance and ruthlessness.
When Selina scratched his face I thought oh cool he's going to have those classic scratches on his face just like the comics. Then they kill him 2 minutes later lol. Oh well.

Now the main villain Paul Dano's Riddler. He was sparsely used throughout the movie. Predominately masked, facial expressions hidden, and issuing threats and clues over grainy video footage. Not the sort of Riddler this Batman fan is used to seeing. That being said I still enjoyed this Zodiac killer type take on him. Dano brought the crazy and the creepy when he needed to. His scene with Batman in Arkham was top notch.

Regarding other aspects of the movie, the fight scenes and action scenes in general were terrific. That car chase between Batman and Penguin was the highlight for me. Speakig of which I love the new Batmobile. That intro to it was so cool. Gotham City looked great. A dirty rain soaked mess. The story overall was fine but there was things about it I didn't much care for. I didn't feel like Batman really went on a journey in this one.
I don't know what the point of the whole Thomas Wayne corruption thing was. To make Bruce doubt his father for 20 minutes only to find out from Alfred he wasn't a bad guy? Just did not get the point of all that. There was no pay off to it. Bruce didn't gain or lose anything from it. Just felt like some filler plot to pass the time and to give Alfred an emotional scene with Bruce.
I think the three hour run time was excessive. This movie could have sliced off 20-30 minutes.

Overall I give it a very solid 8/10. A great movie. A great Batman movie. Matt Reeves did brilliantly.

Excellent write up thank you and glad you enjoyed it!
 
This is one of the best Batman movies. It's flawed, but I loved it. This is most definitely a detective story. A moody, grim detective noir that takes its time and is never concerned with checking off the obligatory superhero movie boxes. The first half was giving TDK run for its money, the second half, when the mystery unfolds, and when it gets the eventual conclusion, not quite as strong. I'm a little disappointed considering how long the scriptwriting process was that I was expecting more of a top rate mystery. The whole reason Riddler did it made me go, "That's it?" This movie at its core doesn't do much new. It's another "Gotham is corrupt" story. I guess the solution was that Falcone is running the city. All right then! I understand the theme was more about how we're all corrupt. And I like the idea of it leading to Falcone just murdering this girl for knowing that, but if you're going to do an All the President's Men type conspiracy story, I wish the execution was better. I'm surprised this is more All the President's Men than Se7en.

The way this mystery was constructed was flawed. There are elements that should have been set up that come into play in the second half, such as the dam, Riddler's followers (needed to show more of an escalation after the funeral scene) even Thomas Wayne. New pieces of information that are revelatory don't hold as much impact because we're just learning them. Even the Thomas Wayne stuff feels a little superfluous in its execution. With mysteries, shocking revelations is information recontextualized set up earlier when the detective wasn't looking in that direction. I think it would have helped if the Thomas Wayne stuff was set up earlier.

I didn't have as much of a problem with the climax though. I was worried it would devolve into schlock "Batman must save the city from this flood!" but I appreciated how the climax was just Batman thwarting this assassination attempt. Maybe could have been better if Riddler had a more interesting motive.

Reeves wasn't kidding about The Taxi Driver and Klute inspirations. The movie is more stylized, but the performances are the most realistic I've seen in any Batman movie yet. Pattinson is excellent of course, more silent and scary. His footsteps are creepy in and of itself like the Frankenstein monster. Loved the narration.

Kravitz was a great Selina. She's less Catwoman and more of a woman just fighting for her life. I got real Jane Fonda Klute vibes. Dano was strong, more over the top than I was expecting. He's more of a catalyst for exposing Gotham's corruption than the Buffalo Bill or John Doe monster at the end of the tunnel. Wright was a terrific Gordon. Serkis was a fine Alfred. And of course Farrell was an amazing Tony Soprano-esque Penguin.

Giachinno's score is one of his best in years. Unnerving and creepy.

I hated the Joker scene. I suspected Joker was in this, but that was so tacked on, and I don't like Keogan in the role at all. But apparently, they shot a scene where Batman goes to Arkham and gets the Joker's help with Riddler's riddles in a Hannibal Lecter style scene. The movie's three hours, might as well put it in. This should have been set up. If you have to include the Joker, I like the idea of these two already having a relationship.

I'm looking forward to seeing what Reeves does next. But for a movie that looked and suggested to do some new interesting things given the genre and director, if you've seen Batman movies and are a fan, the story itself doesn't do a whole lot new even if it's solid. But it's a unique and great looking and personal Batman film directed by Matt Reeves. If you're going to continue detective Batman, and I hope Reeves does, you need to write a better mystery and push things more. I really hope it's not Batman going up against the Joker.

8/10

Objective Ranking:

1. TDK
2. BB
3. BR
4. The Batman
5. Batman '89
6. The Dark Knight Rises
7. Batman Forever
8. Batman and Robin
 
After watching it twice this is a 9/10 . Im not really good at articulating myself like some do here but the Batman really is a graphic novel brought to life on the big screen. Page for Page, I can't tell you how much this film has made a impact on me over the last 24hours. It was a 8.5 on first viewing but the simple fact of everyone delivering on this film is a testament to Matt Reeves and his vision on Batman. The tone and darkness of Gotham city just made me smile on the 2nd viewing. As someone who is mostly is a outcast and views society as a dystopia in our current times. This was like therapy in most ways.

I want to give Robert Pattinson his props on this. The guy put EVERY fibre into this role. His batman is the new benchmark for me. Emoting through the Cowl has never been more apparent than this film, certain scenes with Selina, The police, Gordan, Carmine's death and the interrogation scene. He absolutely soaks up the scenery.

The walk into the club looking for Penguin. If thats not someone on a mission i don't know what is. The slow head turns when looking at evidence and talking to others. His eyes zoning in and hardly had him blinking, He had such a presence in a room i get why the cops felt inferior to him. Absolutely mesmerizing performance.

What i think is understated was the connection to the Mayors son. When Batman saw that small foot print at the crime scene and Gordan told him he'd found him. Can you imagine how much Trauma that brought in that moment. He fixated on that kid like it was him in the alleyway on that faithful night. When that boy looked at him ,he saw the same face he must of displayed when a cop tried to comfort him.

At the funeral it was even worse. Soon as he saw him again. He stayed frozen in time potentially reliving his parents funeral. When the Mayors son turned around Bruce was still fixated on him. Then when all the commotion outside was happening he turned around again because he was his priority in that moment he wanted to make sure there was NO THREAT whatsoever or harm to come to that boy, He absolutely saw himself within the Mayor's son. Pattinson absolutely killed it in the funeral scene. The young actor gave off a innocence i haven't seen in a longtime. Im so glad he was the one to reach out at the end when Batman wanted to help. Why.....because that moment could be whether the kid finds the light instead of the darkness that consumed Bruce.

The film just keeps processing in my mind. I think us Batfans will cherish this to the grave. In terms of media in over 30 years. I don't think ive ever had a Batman film that has struck the right chords with me like this one has. Im fully invested in where Matt's direction goes next. On a side note.

Paul Dano was better for me on the 2nd viewing. His Riddler really is a incel sociopath with a fascination for the Dark knight. Im glad he shined in the moments he had.
 
The Batman (2022) -

In full transparency, I was hyped to the moon for this film. It was likely the most hyped I was for a Batman film since 2008's The Dark Knight. Which isn't a slight on The Dark Knight Rises in 2012 - which I was hyped for that, but it was a bittersweet hype due to the understanding that a well loved series that is now one of the most beloved trilogies of all time was coming to a close.

And while I was hyped for The Batman - I wasn't excited or even wanting it to exist, for quite awhile. I, like many, felt burned we weren't getting the Affleck solo film we were promised. With Ben's comic accurate look, strong casting, his directing/writing history proving promising and the world he exists in being the fantastical, Gothic shred universe - it all was hard to hear that we would be not enjoying such a thing.

That said, I never was upset over Pattinson's casting. It was fair casting, I felt.

Though, the set photos revealing the costume also didn't endear me, neither did the reveal of the Batmobile. Both things told me that we were getting yet another 'early years' Batman that we got in Begins, Telltale, Arkham Origins and countless graphic novels - an angle I felt was played to death.

However, the enthusiasm of the filmmakers and actors, as well as the official stills and eventually the first trailer won me over despite these hang-ups.

The Gothic aesthetic, the rawness, the rain, the noir. It seemed chock full of elements that I felt were time to explore in a modern Batman film. Each trailer and interview only drove home the confidence I had in the film and pushed my hype higher.

So how was the film?

Well, I personally would say overall - it's good. Maybe great. But 'good' is the word I'm currently stuck on.

The Good/Great -

The film's noir-ish elements are a highlight. This film oozes atmosphere and style. Everything is dirty, grime-y and being soaked in rainwater. It's never truly 'daytime' in Gotham City. And I love that. The monologues of Bruce Wayne's journaled thoughts are a welcome touch of introspection, if a bit dramatic at times, that I think was underused but welcome when utilized.

Throughout the film, we meet many of Batman's most notable characters - The Penguin, The Riddler, Catwoman, Carmine Falcone, Alfred, Jim Gordon, etc.

All of them are perfectly acted and written as they all should be, really. Riddler is obsessed and enjoying his 'game' with Batman. Falcone is charismatic and smooth. The Penguin is insecure and volatile. Catwoman is slick and crafty. Alfred is tough and caring. And Gordon is a good cop.

Visually, the film is a treat. So many shots are frameable and the lighting is artistic, drastic and provide atmosphere to even the most normal settings. The cinematography is among the best the genre has ever seen, bar none.

Nothing in this film feels rushed, under-thought or thin.

This film (partially due to its three-hour runtime) is allowed time to breathe. No shot ends too soon - but some may end too late, for many. There isn't anything in this film that feels 'rushed' or like it wasn't given enough time to bake in the oven, in terms of what's shot.

The action is a great highlight. Batman is tough, quick, agile, hard-hitting - but not invincible or able to dodge every swing that comes his way. Some of his moves, from the grappling gun swings to the cape-action, is pure Batman.

Batman's moodiness is a welcome 'true to character' angle. He has presence - and it's a subtle, unsettling presence. He's understated in the best way.

Everyone in the cast has amazing chemistry and works off each other, so well. Batman and the Penguin interact so in character with each other. Gordon and Batman's dynamic has this cautious trust that you'd expect from their relationship at this point. Catwoman and Batman have exactly the sexy, mysterious rogue charm that the best stories in comic form brought.

The film sells the Batmobile as this Stephen King, 'Christine' like beast of power. The reveal of the Batmobile will go down as the greatest reveal of the character's ride in film history. It's scary, it's angry, it's bat-ass.

The action is generally frenetic. Batman hits hard. The Batmobile hits hard. His style of combat and flow feels like a hybrid of Bale's Batman and Affleck's more Arkham-esque style. So - a happy medium.

The sound design is sheer perfection. The roar of the Batmobile, the clicking of a neck-bomb, the filters over Dano's voice - it's perfect. This is Oscar-worthy sound design.

Also, this film...at times...feels like a gritty, dark version of '66 Batman. Batman doesn't hide in the shadows. He's around cops in GCPD and crime scenes. He's in the daylight if needed. He stands alongside arresting officers taking in a crook, in front of cameras. He's not an urban legend - he's reality.

It just feels a bit '66. In a great way.

The music is dark, contemplative, creepy and just overall...perfect for Batman. It's among the best Batman scores alongside Batman Returns and The Dark Knight Rises.

The sets are so polished and character driven - both the characters of the film and the character of the city. Bruce's home is incredible and unlike anything we've ever seen, even if I have a hard time seeing this version of Thomas and Martha Wayne living in such a place, it definitely fits this Bruce.

Riddler's home is equally incredible, if not more-so. So full of items, puzzles, ledgers, codewords. Clutter. Crazy clutter. It's so Riddler.

Dano is truly amazing - and when he's in the mask, on the video call or on the news, he is at his very best. He's energized and crazed and enjoying himself so very much. His downfall and emotional crashing is wonderfully performed - highlighting an almost angry man-child combined with Mark David Chapman obsession.

Matt Reeves has created a world.

Pattinson's Batman, again, is understated - but so effective. The Bat-Glare, is there. His voice is aggressive but low-key. He nails 'Batman'.

Overall, this film has so much going for it that only will get better with the next two installments, should we get them.

The Bad/Not So Great -

As for the writing, plot and characters - that's where the technical elements remain unmatched in their perfection and the film becomes a bit lopsided.

The opening setup and reveal of the villain is horror-like. It's thriller-esque. And very effective. He's crazy. Determined. Obsessed.
But that's kind of all he is.

Batman's first scene is also effective, albeit rather low-key. Rather than crashing down, popping out of a smoke bomb - he simply walks out of darkness and kicks some ass.

He's aggressive. He's angry.
And one of the issues the film has is that - that's kind of all he is.

This highlights the issues with the film's characterization overall - what you learn about Alfred, Batman, Gordon, Penguin and so on - in their first scenes, is really all you know about them and their personalities. There's no more dimension to them than what we're first shown.

The only character that we learn a bit more about is Catwoman - and that isn't so much about her as it is about her parental figure.

This film is more about unraveling a mystery and digging up the past - the dirty, grime covered past of a decaying hell-scape called 'Gotham'.

And because it's more about the mystery - it isn't that character driven.

Batman himself is quiet and economical with his words. His eyes do a lot of the talking. Which, for Batman, is quite effective. But Bruce Wayne is portrayed as a shell of a human being. He's empty, cold, almost dead-inside.

That's how he begins the film and that's how he stays. The journaled monologues of the start of the film go on hiatus and we're left without much to to on, from Bruce. His portrayal as this cold shell of a human would be fine if we knew more about this version. We don't learn anything about him, really.

Cultural osmosis only goes so far. And there's no clear 'journey' our protagonist is on. There's really no 'arc' and the arc that the film seems to think exists (Batman realizing he needs to be seen less as vengeful and more as hopeful) comes so late in the film that it almost doesn't feel like it stuck the landing. It comes through a monologue rather than being shown growth progressively.

Some may say the ending 'rescue' scenes show that growth, but his near sacrifice and assistance at the end of the film doesn't seem like anything the dark, vengeful Batman throughout most of the film wouldn't have already done, anyway.

The film's antagonist, The Riddler, suffers the same issue. The Riddler is not as well known as Batman - so he relies on even less cultural osmosis. We don't find out much about him - where he acquired his skills, how he found out what he knows, what's his top motivation, what broke him, etc.

That leaves me to believe that the characters weren't the point - the mystery was. But we still need a driving narrative. Of which the film, at times, lacks.

The film ping-pongs between The Riddler's games and the hunt for him - and the mobster story of past and current corruption, alongside Catwoman's search for a missing friend. By proxy of the film's length and lack of character depth - once you're away from one of those three plot threads - you forget they exist.

There was a point at the start of the third act where I went "Woah, I forgot Riddler was in this."

And that shouldn't happen.
The film seemingly had too much story with too little character.

We learn nothing of Gordon's life or motivations. We learn nothing of Alfred's past much. And so on.

The most depth and character-driven growth is in Catwoman - as she mourns someone close to her, grapples with anger and lust for revenge alongside a complicated lineage.

Bruce himself grapples with issues in his lineage - when he learns of it, he's depressed, quiet and angry. The issue is that before learning of that - he was just as depressed, quiet and angry.

So not only does the film introduce a big beat that doesn't change the character, but it immediately backtracks on that reveal a scene or two later, leaving a viewer wondering the point.

Overall, while the film does have the central mystery-unraveling plot - it bounces between those other three threads in such a way that it leaves the film feeling devoid of a sole, driving narrative throughout its three hour runtime.

And for as great as a chase like the Batmobile/Penguin chase is - scenes like that lack urgency or stakes that make it as memorable as the Batmobile chase in Begins managed to be.

Pattinson's Bruce - while has potential - isn't given enough variety in what's needed of him to feel like a three dimensional person. He doesn't seem to have that much to do as Bruce - which may be the point...but doesn't make it engaging to watch as his Batman.

So, while the film is good or even great - there are issues that I didn't expect. Most of them based on characterization or lack thereof, alongside a lack of driving narrative and a runtime that allows a viewer to forget that a plotline (that we veered from) existed at all.

Conclusion -

Overall, The Batman is a visually stunning feast for the eyes that adapts the world and characters of Batman in a faithful way, but also in a way that expands and adds new flair to existing style, mythos and looks.

The action is truly great, the cast all bring such strong, A-game performances and the chemistry they have is a strong match for Nolan's amazing series.

The film excels on every technical level - sound, image, shot-framing, cinematography and music. It's near perfect in that regard.

And it lays a strong foundation for what will no doubt be a great series - but it leaves a lot of room for improvement in the character writing, plot-driven and general writing departments that future films should be able to address.

A film this damn good in so many areas shouldn't have suffered from the plot, character and writing issues present here. But for many fans, these issues will not matter as much or be made up in all the other areas.

It's just the film is so strong in so many areas with a ton of thought - that it makes its flaws so much more puzzling.

It's definitely good - perhaps great.

And I'm still looking forward to repeat viewings.

8/10 (Maybe 8.5/10...we'll see.)
 
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After a 2nd viewing I can still say I loved the film and enjoyed it even more upon 2nd viewing. I'm also ready to rank the films finally haha. Repeat viewings help!

The Dark Knight
Batman Begins
The Batman
The Dark Knight Rises
Mask of the Phantasm
Batman 1989
Batman Returns
Batman Forever
Batman 1966
Batman and Robin
 
This is a strong powerful 9. I wouldn't say this is finally the Batman I wanted to see because Nolan definitely gave me that but The Batman definitely gave me a whole lot more of the detective stuff that I love about the comics and Nolan films. I think what sets it apart from Nolan is Bruce in this one has much lower tech which makes him have to use his intuition more.

The film is long and in my opinion, slow but in an immersive way. Also feels like everything in the film has purpose. I do think they could've shaved 15 minutes by shortening some shots for the general audience but personally support Reeve's full vision.

The villains:

Riddler: I've long thought after the passing of Heath that there was a chilling version of Riddler or Mad Hatter that would've made a compelling villain for Nolan after TDK. Of course what we got from Reeves was far richer than what I was expecting. It's an excellent take and Paul Dano has just moved this character up as the best live action Batman villain after Heath's Joker. That's no easy feat because it takes a lot to upend Tom Hardy's Bane, whom I LOVE.

Penguin: Colin is excellent. Period. Can't wait for his HBOMax show.

Carmine: Ok. This one is very important to me and is one of the primary reasons The Batman shoots over Batman Begins. I never was impressed with Tom Wilkenson as Carmine. I appreciated that Goyer and Nolan integrated the character in Batman Begins but Wilkenson played it wrong in my opinion and bore little resemblance to his comics counterpart. Reeves and Turturro nail it. They absolutely nailed it. The mannerisms, the way he talks, everything.
Truth be told, I had no idea he would play such a large role in the film, and for him to wield the power he does over the city and the fact they played into his relationship with Selina was nothing short of magnificent. I cannot stress how much I loved it. I think ultimately the Falcone subplot probably is a detriment to the general audience, but for me as a Long Halloween fan, it was an even more enriching experience. My only con is that I hoped he would've survived to maybe set up Two-Face for a future sequel. However that's not entirely necessary as Maroni is generally more important to Harvey becoming Two-Face than Falcone.

This is my second favorite Batmobile after the '89 version, yet the most realistic. Good riddance Tumbler.

Pattinson is my favorite Batman so far. Waiting for him to really portray the Bruce we commonly know though. However, I think Pattinson would masterfully capture Bruce after the death of Jason Todd. I don't think Reeves was going for this, but Bruce here absolutely felt as bitter and broody as the character did after A Death In The Family.

One more thing about Pattinson is I really hope we see him adopt Dick Grayson in the next or 3rd film, because
how effective he was at portraying Bruce's protectiveness and connection to the mayor's son makes me long now for how Pattinson will carry over that performance with Grayson in play.

There's more I can say like about Zoe and Gordon but everyone else pretty much said it. I loved Gordon and considering the extremely tough act to follow which was Gary Oldman, it says a lot about Wright to smash it the way he did. Zoe just oozed charisma and chemistry with Pattinson.

All in all, an excellent film. I don't put it over TDK or TDKR, but closely right below them which is all elite tier. Give me more.
 
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4. Bale. Well, he has a full and coherent arc but I think Nolan missed a big side of the character. On the opposite side of Burton, Nolan didn't embrace the queerness of the character and fully went on the route of his idealism side.
Which is good: Batman is idealistic, Batman is justice.
But what I think Nolan missed was the more istinctual side of the character.
The night Waynes are killed, Bruce became Batman. In Nolan's movie, Batman in a conscious and rational instrument in Bruce's hands. It is an instrument, a mask he puts.
Even if at the end of BB Rachel says that his true face is Batman's, Nolan went totally on other route in the sequels.
Batman is a symbol, ok fine, but the real Bruce Wayne is obsessed in being Batman because HE IS the Batman.
He has a shadow inside of him.
Nolan's Batman is too much a rational thing. That's my main problem with TDKR.
I can say is a coherent character: a depressed man who tries to find a reason in an ideal. And is quite good the fact that this Bruce is constantly in prison when he isn't Batman. At the beginning of BB, at the beginning of TDKR in his manor, in the Pit lately.
But the point, to me, is that Bruce Wayne is not depressed: he is more an obsessive compulsive man.
That's the core of the comic character.
The way Nolan portraited him ended to castrate the character. He can't be Batman for too long, because Batman isn't a deep necessity to him.
So, Nolan did a good job for the idealistic side, but he chose a route to Bruce's mind problems that weren't coherent to the real comic character to me.
And I'm mostly sorry for Bale: he was cast after American Psycho but he never had the chance to show a mental ill Bruce, since Nolan's vision took too much power on Goyer's.
What could have been TDK with a true arc of Bruce? I mean, after Rachel's death he didn't lose the control at all. Zero.
That's the flaw of the movie and in TDKR it became an huge problem to me.


6. Pattinson. Easily the best and most complete version of the character.
He takes a lot from BTAS (to me, the best Batman), he mixes good Burton's and Nolan's side of the characterization and, mostly, he adds some sides that wasn't in other movies putting them inside the arc and the conflicts of a coming of age story.
The fact that Reeves understands that Batman is linked and mirrors a lot with his villains is gold. He is an inspiration to them, but mostly he is ONE OF THEM.
I loved some subtle things like the fact that Riddler and Bruce both had notebooks, for example.
But all the Vengeance thing.
The point is that even if Bruce is a monster like his enemies he is saved by the care of the people he loves.
That's the key of the arc in this movie and was shown well only in BTAS.
So, Bruce is empathetic with his villains, he cures is scars with love.
On the other hand he IS Batman and is obsessed by it, always on the border between being a good man or a psychotic.

I'm so happy of that, because Reeves build a character that makes possible to explore Bruce mental wealth, a rogue gallery that returns many times and, mostly, a BatFamily.

Finally.
Luke this is beautifully emphasised . This is word for word why even though there entirely different films. Nolan's interpretation of who Batman is falls short overall . I hold BB and TDK to a high standard like most of us here but i visibly get annoyed with Bruce's arc in TDK and partly TDKR because of reasons you mentioned.
 
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I’ve had the chance to see this film twice. First at a Fan Screening event yesterday and just a few minutes ago . Upon watching the film the first time I was very much blown away by the style and direction Matt Reeves decided to go with this film. It’s a lot to unpack and it’s vastly different than previous films of Batman.

For me my favorite version of Batman is that from Batman: The Animated Series it captures everything about the character of Bruce Wayne and the duality of his alter-ego perfectly. In live action we’ve had seven iteration of Batman, each given a unique twist to the character.

I enjoyed this film for it fresh take on Batman, the World of Gotham and the supporting characters. This is a dark film that takes several different movie elements to create a realistic style that dives even deeper than Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight trilogy. That being said it goes a bit to far that sucks out the fantasy in certain areas. Given that this a detective noir with a physiological thriller I guess that’s to be expected.

the pros
1. Cast
2. The cinematography of Gotham City
3. The action
4. Batman detective work and puzzle solving
5. Michael Giacchino’s score

the cons
1. The 3rd act
2. Underdeveloped Bruce Wayne public persona (the disguise)
3. Lack of Alfred
4. The Wayne family
 
I'll get put in fan-jail for this, but I still think that so far I appreciate Nolan's interpretation of who Bruce Wayne is more than most other 'traditional' takes on the character. I think maybe it was a little too subtle, but Bruce has rationalized what he's doing in those films. He has an endgame in mind, but he hasn't mastered his rage or his dependency on exorcising his demons through being Batman. But he does embark on his mission with a practical goal, of cleaning up corruption and inspiring the good people of Gotham to take their city back. It makes sense and it makes him a character that is much easier to sympathize with and go on the journey with. He has the sense to know that the fish rots from the head, and he comes out the gate going fo the jugular, trying to take down the mob. People make jokes all the time about Bale's Batman being too "dumb", but he was never dumb enough to think that punching purse snatchers in dark alleys was ever going to be enough to have a lasting impact. So he has a level of clarity and dedication that is awesome, IMO. He has a vision for what the symbol Batman is supposed to be, which along the way is tested and must be adapted.

The problem is, in the process he's actually built a Bat-cave sized-prison for himself. He IS addicted to it. He has suppressed fear to the point that he doesn't value his own life. Because he hasn't ever truly healed from what happened to him as a kid. He hasn't fully let go of his pain. Not until Rises.

It's an absolutely stunning arc. Pattinson may be the most comic-accurate Batman that we've seen yet, but I still think Bale's Bruce Wayne is the benchmark for me in terms of how I view the character and what he represents. The totality of the character, not just the man in the Bat-suit.
 
I'll get put in fan-jail for this, but I still think that so far I appreciate Nolan's interpretation of who Bruce Wayne is more than most other 'traditional' takes on the character. I think maybe it was a little too subtle, but Bruce has rationalized what he's doing in those films. He has an endgame in mind, but he hasn't mastered his rage or his dependency on exorcising his demons through being Batman. But he does embark on his mission with a practical goal, of cleaning up corruption and inspiring the good people of Gotham to take their city back. It makes sense and it makes him a character that is much easier to sympathize with and go on the journey with. He has the sense to know that the fish rots from the head, and he comes out the gate going fo the jugular, trying to take down the mob. People make jokes all the time about Bale's Batman being too "dumb", but he was never dumb enough to think that punching purse snatchers in dark alleys was ever going to be enough to have a lasting impact. So he has a level of clarity and dedication that is awesome, IMO. He has a vision for what the symbol Batman is supposed to be, which along the way is tested and must be adapted.

The problem is, in the process he's actually built a Bat-cave sized-prison for himself. He IS addicted to it. He has suppressed fear to the point that he doesn't value his own life. Because he hasn't ever truly healed from what happened to him as a kid. He hasn't fully let go of his pain. Not until Rises.

It's an absolutely stunning arc. Pattinson may be the most comic-accurate Batman that we've seen yet, but I still think Bale's Bruce Wayne is the benchmark for me in terms of how I view the character and what he represents. The totality of the character, not just the man in the Bat-suit.

I understand your point.
I just think it's limitating for the character in long period terms. I grew up with BTAS and - even if I grew up with TDK trilogy too - I always had the regret to have not a very good cinematic Batman with a long career.

At the end, accuracy or not, it's just tastes.

Anyway, I think that Bruce's arc would have been a lot better with a more Bat-centric plot in TDK and with a better use of the Pit in TDKR.

I mean, he is in the pit for... 30 minutes of the screentime?
And all the jump thing... too fast.

Imagine TDKR with a sort of BB structure: Bruce is in the Pit in the first scene and we have flashbacks that explain how he ended there.
Then for the third act he escapes helping other prisoners too...
BatBale, in my opinion, is too little linked with people, in a pratical way.
He loves Gotham, but... in an idealistic way only.
All the empathetic side is a great absence.

Anyway, with a better plot structure TDKR could have been a great movie.

But if you spend 75 minutes to make Batman come back, then you break his back at 95 mins and you get him healed and out of the Pit at 130 mins... The arc can't be managed in the best way, as well.
 
I'll throw my hat in the ring but try to keep it brief as I just got back from seeing it.
First off, I'll say Nolan completely made me fall in love again with Batman and even the whole genre again so I should get that out of the way.
I wish I could stay away from comparing the movies, however there are a lot notes from the Trilogy that I enjoyed and enjoyed seeing them in this movie as well.
I love the gritty gotham (like Begins), I liked the interplay between Batman and Gordon (a foundation throughout the trilogy), and I enjoyed the realistic take like the nolan films.
One thing I didn't hear enough about in reviews was Pattinson.....and I honestly was really impressed. He didn't have the layers that Bale did, however I can forgive that if he's just going through his 'moody' period and develops over future films. Again, he was spot on and I believe in him. Zoe was solid and probably brought the most humanity to the film. I got a huge kick out of Penguin and like Scarecrow in Begins....I wish I saw more. I'm on the fence about the Riddler. It definitely wasn't bad. I thought the best scene was the one with Batman. Some of the others made me a cringe a bit he borderlined playing the laughing lunatic trope but he did manage overall to dodge that.
I don't know that they topped anything that Nolan hadn't already done. I think what Reeves did a better job of (imo) was the key elements I liked in the nolan films he expanded on and gave depth. I will say, as much as I enjoyed the tumber/batpod.....the new Batmobile was just awesome all the way around and the car chase was fantastic (and will likely hold up better than nolan's tumbler jumping on rooftops).
All in all great movie. My ratings would be

1.The Dark Knight
2. Batman Begins
3. The Batman
 
9/10
After watched it twice and some days of thinking, and thinking, I can't get this movie out of my head. And that's the point. Matt Reeves made an intense, dark, moody detective movie that goes against the blockbuster formula even with some elements of it. I came to conclusion that TDK trilogy will be my favorite version of the Bat universe, but The Batman comes really close, if not equal, as a love letter to the character.
Pattinson is so intense and imposing, as Batman, loved him. His Bruce is a little apathetic but purely intentional, and I like this new approach, very fresh. Everyone else is great, my favourites were Kravitz and Farrell, really looking foward to his series. Amazing Gotham, amazing production design, outstanding score.
Having said that, I found the pacing too slow and the length very noticable. Also, not enough Alfred - Serkis was great in his moments -, and the Wayne mystery was very meh, imo. But, as a Batman fan, I couldn't be more excited to what the future holds. :batty:
 
I understand your point.
I just think it's limitating for the character in long period terms. I grew up with BTAS and - even if I grew up with TDK trilogy too - I always had the regret to have not a very good cinematic Batman with a long career.

At the end, accuracy or not, it's just tastes.

Anyway, I think that Bruce's arc would have been a lot better with a more Bat-centric plot in TDK and with a better use of the Pit in TDKR.

I mean, he is in the pit for... 30 minutes of the screentime?
And all the jump thing... too fast.

Imagine TDKR with a sort of BB structure: Bruce is in the Pit in the first scene and we have flashbacks that explain how he ended there.
Then for the third act he escapes helping other prisoners too...
BatBale, in my opinion, is too little linked with people, in a pratical way.
He loves Gotham, but... in an idealistic way only.
All the empathetic side is a great absence.

Anyway, with a better plot structure TDKR could have been a great movie.

But if you spend 75 minutes to make Batman come back, then you break his back at 95 mins and you get him healed and out of the Pit at 130 mins... The arc can't be managed in the best way, as well.

Like you said, it's all taste, so I respect your opinion.

I grew up with BTAS too, but I think there's something about the serialized format like a TV series or comics that just works well for that type of longterm Batman IMO. I look for a different sort of impact when it comes to film.

I really really appreciated and respected the hell out of The Batman, but there is a part of me that kind of wishes that instead of a movie, that this was the first season of the HBO Max Batman show. I feel like this world really calls for it.

Granted, I would've watched a long-form version of the Nolanverse in a heartbeat as well, but I think this one even more is about fleshing out Gotham as a character, and could you just imagine if we got to experience this world in 45-50 minute chunks, one week at a time over the course of 8 seasons or so? :wow:

I know we kind of will get to have our cake and eat it too when it comes to spinoff shows, but I'm talkin' Batman here. There is a part of me that feels like this could very well be the last iteration of the Batman film franchise before WB just decides to pull the trigger on a big budget streaming version. (I hope not, but I honestly can't rule out that possibility). Part of me feels like, we've got one foot in the door here. There is such potential on the table if they made this a full-on long form storytelling take on Batman.

Maybe when Reeves finishes his trilogy they can continue it that way.
 
Like you said, it's all taste, so I respect your opinion.

I grew up with BTAS too, but I think there's something about the serialized format like a TV series or comics that just works well for that type of longterm Batman IMO. I look for a different sort of impact when it comes to film.

I really really appreciated and respected the hell out of The Batman, but there is a part of me that kind of wishes that instead of a movie, that this was the first season of the HBO Max Batman show. I feel like this world really calls for it.

Granted, I would've watched a long-form version of the Nolanverse in a heartbeat as well, but I think this one even more is about fleshing out Gotham as a character, and could you just imagine if we got to experience this world in 45-50 minute chunks, one week at a time over the course of 8 seasons or so? :wow:

I know we kind of will get to have our cake and eat it too when it comes to spinoff shows, but I'm talkin' Batman here. There is a part of me that feels like this could very well be the last iteration of the Batman film franchise before WB just decides to pull the trigger on a big budget streaming version. (I hope not, but I honestly can't rule out that possibility). Part of me feels like, we've got one foot in the door here. There is such potential on the table if they made this a full-on long form storytelling take on Batman.

Maybe when Reeves finishes his trilogy they can continue it that way.

Yeah, a series about this Batman and this version of Gotham would be amazing!

I hope they will do two trilogies, at least. One Batman trilogy and one Batman and Robin trilogy. That would be awesome too!
 
Wow. This was a fantastic movie and maybe my favourite theatrical interpretation of Batman yet.

Reeves crafted a very memorable and unique take on Batman which stands on its own two feet with a noir detective story, but still somehow manages to pull some of the best bits from all the previous interpretations.

I was sold on Pattinson as Batman in the first 5 minutes he appeared on screen. And I say that as someone who was initially pretty ‘meh’ about his casting. Despite lacking the imposing bulk of someone like Affleck, Pattinson still manages to make his Batman hugely intimidating through the way he moves and uses his eyes. He approaches his assailants slowly and methodically, like he’s stalking them. Waiting in the shadows and letting the noise of his footsteps rattle them. Always watching inquisitively and quietly but still possessing that seething rage which seems to bubble just below the surface.

The whole cast is great tbh. Dano is very effective and at times chilling and unhinged. Wright brings a fresh take to Jim Gordon but manages to sell his integrity and earnestness, and Kravitz brings more depth to Selina Kyle than we’ve seen before. And Colin Farrell is just brilliant as Penguin - lots of fun and totally unrecognisable in both voice and looks.

The score is superb. Foreboding at times but also majestic when it needs to be.

Some spoilery bits I loved:
- The monologue was a genius touch. Many superhero films have been described as like a comic brought to life, but what virtually all of them lack is that inner monologue that we actually see on a comic page as thought bubbles - what Batman is thinking. Hearing Wayne’s voice relaying his own thoughts gives us more insight and makes it clear that this is a Batman centric movie, not a Joker or Riddler centric one.

- The Batmobile. On paper and on screen, it looks like the least formidable one we have seen in movies - it’s not a tank or military vehicle like before, but a highly modified muscle car. But boy does it have presence, and it’s terrifying in the sense that it seems relentless - just like Batman. The whole chase sequence with Penguin was masterful.

- Penguin literally waddling like a Penguin when Batman and Gordon tied his feet and hands made me giggle a bit. Deliberate but fun.

- Bruce’s arc throughout the movie was very clear and well signposted, but implemented in such a way that it felt unforced and a natural reaction to the events of the plot. He begins the movie lurking in shadows before dishing out a brutal beating, and he ends it by holding a flare in the dark and leading survivors out of the flood, literally lighting the path ahead for them as they follow him. The park from dark to light, and from being a creature of vengeance to a symbol of hope is inspiring and will hopefully be built on in any sequel.
 

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