Comics The Official Steve Ditko's Spiderman Appreciation Thread

[david icke]

To tell you the truth, i loved the meteor story.

Yeah, I mean I do like it, in fact it was one of the first Ditkos I read as I had it in an old UK annual called POW! I just think that ditko had already peaked by that point. I do think it's better than the 2nd Molten Man and 'Guy named Joe'. The 2nd Molten Man story is a disapointment, it really just is a big fight that one.

Thinking about that Meteor man story...I really liked the scene when Gwen stacey spots PP running away at the first sign of trouble after she is starting to change her opinion of him and fancy him a bit. That's another thing, Gwen Stacey does seem a lot more interesting in the Ditko issues, with her arched eyebrows she almost looks like a supervillan, and is one of the 'bullies' along with Flash and Harry Osborn.
In the suceeding Romita issues there really isn't much to differentiate her from MJ, in actions or looks. Ok, MJ is a bit more 'free-spirited', and messes HO about a bit, but Gwen doesn't really seem to have any stand out character traits, unlike the Ditko version, which seems like a completely different character. I think it just shows how much of an influence, or how much writing or 'storytelling', each artist brought to the table. Ditko got a couple of co-plotting/writing credits in later issues, I wonder how many he should have been due earlier on but never got.

 

[Brimay]

Yeah, I mean I do like it, in fact it was one of the first Ditkos I read as I had it in an old UK annual called POW! I just think that ditko had already peaked by that point. I do think it's better than the 2nd Molten Man and 'Guy named Joe'. The 2nd Molten Man story is a disapointment, it really just is a big fight that one.

Thinking about that Meteor man story...I really liked the scene when Gwen stacey spots PP running away at the first sign of trouble after she is starting to change her opinion of him and fancy him a bit. That's another thing, Gwen Stacey does seem a lot more interesting in the Ditko issues, with her arched eyebrows she almost looks like a supervillan, and is one of the 'bullies' along with Flash and Harry Osborn.
In the suceeding Romita issues there really isn't much to differentiate her from MJ, in actions or looks. Ok, MJ is a bit more 'free-spirited', and messes HO about a bit, but Gwen doesn't really seem to have any stand out character traits, unlike the Ditko version, which seems like a completely different character. I think it just shows how much of an influence, or how much writing or 'storytelling', each artist brought to the table. Ditko got a couple of co-plotting/writing credits in later issues, I wonder how many he should have been due earlier on but never got.

Alot probably, thats why steves spidey books are more intresting.
And romitas seem dull.

Also, im reading "Strange And Stranger: The World Of Steve Ditko, what an amazing book, havn't got all the way to his spiderman days yet, but his early horror comic work is just fantastic!

 

[Meehaul]

It's funny...some people are freaking out over the undoing of the marriage, just like they freaked out over the marriage itself, the move from Ditko to Romita, Sr., the "soap opera-ing" of ASM, the "aging" of Pete, etc. A famous Alan Moore interview said he loved the Lee/Ditko version but checked out when Romita jumped aboard and revised Pete's look and character.

I think the problem is that each "generation" of ASM readers likes what they grew up with, define the character for themselves, and then want to see the story end the way they prefer (Pete ages, doesn't age, marries, doesn't marry, etc.). No other character in comics (the unmasked version, that is) has probably had as much of an impact, or has had his world and supporting characters made as much a part of the "mythos" as Peter Parker (who gained the middle name of "Benjamin" pretty late in the series). WHile Bruce Wayne is probably the least developed character who is otherwise popular in comics, Pete is the MOST developed. Interesting stuffs.

 

[Brimay]

Edit

 

[Brimay]

It's funny...some people are freaking out over the undoing of the marriage, just like they freaked out over the marriage itself, the move from Ditko to Romita, Sr., the "soap opera-ing" of ASM, the "aging" of Pete, etc. A famous Alan Moore interview said he loved the Lee/Ditko version but checked out when Romita jumped aboard and revised Pete's look and character.

I think the problem is that each "generation" of ASM readers likes what they grew up with, define the character for themselves, and then want to see the story end the way they prefer (Pete ages, doesn't age, marries, doesn't marry, etc.). No other character in comics (the unmasked version, that is) has probably had as much of an impact, or has had his world and supporting characters made as much a part of the "mythos" as Peter Parker (who gained the middle name of "Benjamin" pretty late in the series). WHile Bruce Wayne is probably the least developed character who is otherwise popular in comics, Pete is the MOST developed. Interesting stuffs.

I did'nt really grow up with the steve ditko spiderman. But after i read some of his stuff i stopped caring about any other artist or view of spiderman.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I did'nt really grow up with the steve ditko spiderman. But after i read some of his stuff i stopped caring about any other artist or view of spiderman.

Why?

 

[Brimay]

Why?

I have a few reasons.

1: steve's spidey is by far the best, had the best story, characters, and of course best art.

2: steve is the best artist ever. And is the god of comic book art and generally any form of art.

3: well he prettie much created spiderman. Stan's idea was just the name spider-man, and that he crawls on walls ect, but steve really brought out the characters feelings, emotions in his art and that is what stan can't do.

 

[The Bruce]

Funny I have like a million different reprints of Steve's Spider-man. I just keep buying them in any shape or form.

Is he alive? I'm looking like a mad man of a video of him. Steve show yourself! Heck come back an do a Spidey story!

 

[Venomaniac]

It's funny...some people are freaking out over the undoing of the marriage, just like they freaked out over the marriage itself, the move from Ditko to Romita, Sr., the "soap opera-ing" of ASM, the "aging" of Pete, etc. A famous Alan Moore interview said he loved the Lee/Ditko version but checked out when Romita jumped aboard and revised Pete's look and character.

I think the problem is that each "generation" of ASM readers likes what they grew up with, define the character for themselves, and then want to see the story end the way they prefer (Pete ages, doesn't age, marries, doesn't marry, etc.). No other character in comics (the unmasked version, that is) has probably had as much of an impact, or has had his world and supporting characters made as much a part of the "mythos" as Peter Parker (who gained the middle name of "Benjamin" pretty late in the series). WHile Bruce Wayne is probably the least developed character who is otherwise popular in comics, Pete is the MOST developed. Interesting stuffs.

You hit the nail right on the head.
Quesada grew up with a single Peter = BND
Most of the fans (myself included) grew up with a married Peter = We don't like BND

 

[DarthDaveBanner]

Although he is usually best known for SPidey, IMO his greatest work was on Dr. Strange. You can spend hours taking in one panel.

 

[Meehaul]

Ditko is alive, btw, and continues to live in Manhattan. He even continues to draw stuff, which you can order through his former editor, Robin Snyder. I've had the chance to speak with him on a number of occasions. He's a wonderful, dare I say "amazing," guy. Marvel has contacted him about doing a story or even a splash page for ASM, but he steadfastly refuses. I feel badly because he truly is a genius. With Stan he made Spider-Man maybe the most interesting character ever to grace the pages of a comic book. Just the facial expressions in those early comics are amazing. John Romita, Sr., whom I like, turned ASM into a Kirby style comic, which meant everone was gorgeous and musclebound. Ditko hated the marriage to MJ, btw. Thought it violated the essence of Peter Parker and was little more than a Stan Lee marketing gimmick. Although SM could crawl walls and do these amazing things, he wanted Pete completely grounded in the real world.

 

[Venomaniac]

Ditko is alive, btw, and continues to live in Manhattan. He even continues to draw stuff, which you can order through his former editor, Robin Snyder. I've had the chance to speak with him on a number of occasions. He's a wonderful, dare I say "amazing," guy. Marvel has contacted him about doing a story or even a splash page for ASM, but he steadfastly refuses. I feel badly because he truly is a genius. With Stan he made Spider-Man maybe the most interesting character ever to grace the pages of a comic book. Just the facial expressions in those early comics are amazing. John Romita, Sr., whom I like, turned ASM into a Kirby style comic, which meant everone was gorgeous and musclebound. Ditko hated the marriage to MJ, btw. Thought it violated the essence of Peter Parker and was little more than a Stan Lee marketing gimmick. Although SM could crawl walls and do these amazing things, he wanted Pete completely grounded in the real world.

It seems that he disliked the marriage due to the Mj-supermodel aspect (or at least that's what I got from that comment lol)

Do you know what he thought about the Spidey movies?
Or the various TV shows?

 

[Meehaul]

He saw only the first film and liked it ok. He thought the organic web shooters were a nice idea, but something they couldn't have gotten away with back in the day--too gruesome and too "suggestive" for a book aimed at teens. We never talked about the animated series. He did note that not long after he left the comic, like the next year, the original animated series started. As for the marriage, I'm not sure whether it was that he opposed having Pete married at all, or just the decision to marry him off to MJ. I just don't know. Ditko himself never married and Pete became Ditko's alter-ego in a way. I suspect he thought that Pete ought not to have married at all. If you look at the famous Ditko drawing of himself, he looks a lot like an older version of Peter Parker. Ditko's got a whole "theory of the hero" that's worth reading. Rorsach, of Watchmen fame, was modeled largely on Mr. A (some people say the Question as well, but more so Mr A), maybe the most fully realized of all Ditko's creations. I think ASm would have been a lot more interesting had Ditko stayed with it for another couple of years. Once the comic got popular, though, Lee & Romita sort of "homoginized" it. Pete became handsome, a babe magnet, and the supporting characters' personalities became more "bland." Gwen started out pretty feisty and smart. MJ was supposed to be the silly party girl to Gwen's serious *****y personality. WHo knows how the character would have evolved, but certainly ASM lost its edginess after Ditko left.

 

[Meehaul]

If you're interested in seeing what Ditko's been up to more recently, check out this link where you can buy his stuff: http://ditko.blogspot.com/1990/01/ditko-books-in-print.html

It's pretty old school, in the sense that you have to buy on ebay or you can send a list and a check via snail mail. His newer stuff is definitely worth a look. Pretty trippy and pure genius.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

You hit the nail right on the head.
Quesada grew up with a single Peter = BND
Most of the fans (myself included) grew up with a married Peter = We don't like BND

Not true.

I grew up with single Peter. Read it for 15 years before he got married. And I don't like this whole OMD/BND stuff, and would like to see the marriage return.

Oh, and nice info on Ditko, Meehaul. Ditko is definitely a classic! I really dug his style when I first saw it (still do). I really wish he would do something new Spidey related.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Marvel has contacted him about doing a story or even a splash page for ASM, but he steadfastly refuses.

My god, it would be amazing for him to do a splash page of Spidey in the current comics. However, I respect his privacy. He truly is a legend.

 

[Venomaniac]

Not true.

I grew up with single Peter. Read it for 15 years before he got married. And I don't like this whole OMD/BND stuff, and would like to see the marriage return.

Oh, and nice info on Ditko, Meehaul. Ditko is definitely a classic! I really dug his style when I first saw it (still do). I really wish he would do something new Spidey related.

Wow.

I guess my theory was wrong then. It DID make sense pschyologically speaking though...

 

[Venomaniac]

Not true.

I grew up with single Peter. Read it for 15 years before he got married. And I don't like this whole OMD/BND stuff, and would like to see the marriage return.

Oh, and nice info on Ditko, Meehaul. Ditko is definitely a classic! I really dug his style when I first saw it (still do). I really wish he would do something new Spidey related.

Wow.

I guess my theory was wrong then. It DID make sense pschyologically speaking though...

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Wow.

I guess my theory was wrong then. It DID make sense pschyologically speaking though...

Oh, it would make sense.

I just don't want it to seem only "younger" fans (within the past 20 years) are the only ones oppose to the end of the marriage. Like, oh you don't like single Pete because all you've ever known is married Pete. I just like the natural progression of the character.

 

[Meehaul]

" I just like the natural progression of the character." And that's been the bane of ALL these characters--natural progression. Normally, someone grows up, gets married, has kids, has grandkids, and dies. That's the "natural progression" for most people. It gets WAYYYY more complicated when you've got a commercial chacter who is aimed at a young-ish target audience. Some people like the idea of "growing up" with the character, so it doesn't surprise me that some older readers enjoy the fact that Pete's life has sort of mirrored their own progression through life, but that has the potential of alienating certain "core" fans. And, given that the character is likely to be eternal, when do you "freeze" the character's development? Unless you're a God (Thor), a near-god (Superman), or have a crazy healing factor (Wolverine), so you can explain why the character "freezes" in time (ie, doesn't age), you have to choose a point to "stop" the character's aging. I have been reading ASM practically from the beginning and much prefer a non-married Pete. I just think it's a more interesting character and works better for the sort of person he is--indeed, I believed it was the height of irresponsibility for him to marry and, much like the anti-BND'ers of today, showered letters of angry protest on Marvel and stopped reading the comic for a couple of years. Although I came around, I never liked the marriage and was glad Marvel tried to kill it off. In some ways, I wish Marvel had simply re-set the whole MU, if that's what they were going to do in any event. The skrull thing was lame, the Mephisto thing was lame, but I understand what Marvel was trying to do.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

" I just like the natural progression of the character." And that's been the bane of ALL these characters--natural progression. Normally, someone grows up, gets married, has kids, has grandkids, and dies. That's the "natural progression" for most people. It gets WAYYYY more complicated when you've got a commercial chacter who is aimed at a young-ish target audience. Some people like the idea of "growing up" with the character, so it doesn't surprise me that some older readers enjoy the fact that Pete's life has sort of mirrored their own progression through life, but that has the potential of alienating certain "core" fans. And, given that the character is likely to be eternal, when do you "freeze" the character's development? Unless you're a God (Thor), a near-god (Superman), or have a crazy healing factor (Wolverine), so you can explain why the character "freezes" in time (ie, doesn't age), you have to choose a point to "stop" the character's aging. I have been reading ASM practically from the beginning and much prefer a non-married Pete. I just think it's a more interesting character and works better for the sort of person he is--indeed, I believed it was the height of irresponsibility for him to marry and, much like the anti-BND'ers of today, showered letters of angry protest on Marvel and stopped reading the comic for a couple of years. Although I came around, I never liked the marriage and was glad Marvel tried to kill it off. In some ways, I wish Marvel had simply re-set the whole MU, if that's what they were going to do in any event. The skrull thing was lame, the Mephisto thing was lame, but I understand what Marvel was trying to do.

I don't want derail this thread as I have great respect for Mr. Ditko's work. I responded in another thread to you, but let me say the character seems to be frozen in his 20's. Being married does not push him past this.

 

[Young Superman]

Steve Ditko is the original & greatest artist to ever draw Spider-Man.

 

[Meehaul]

It's interesting that neither lee nor ditko thought the character would stick (pardon the pun) so Stan was willing to age him pretty rapidly in those first few years. Ditko wanted to keep him in high school longer, but also didn't see a lot of future for the character. Stan figured a five year run would have been amazing. No one knew Spidey would join the ranks of batman and superman and become an icon. We're only a couple of years away from spideys 50th anniversary. I hope Stan and steve are still around to see it and maybe even to reconcile with one another.

 

[Alastor]

I grew up with a married Peter, but I prefer a single Peter.

And knowing that Mr. Ditko thinks the marriage was just a marketing gimmick makes me like the man even more.

On topic, Ditko is great. There are a lot of golden/silver age artists that I dont think age too well, but I always enjoy going back over Ditko's Dr. Strange and Spider-Man runs. The change in the title between Ditko and Romita are kinda jarring, and while I enjoyed Amazing after he left, there is definately something missing. I'd like to see someone inject alittle "Ditko" back into Spider-Man.

 

[Brimay]

I go with steves ideas about peter..usually.
I dont think he should ever grow up, i want him to stay 18 forever.
I dont think he should date, even betty brant.
Why? because he's a nerd he's not really suppose to be liked by many people.

Oh, and thank you meehaul for telling us what ditko thought about the movie,i always wonder about his opinion of it. May i ask why he hasn't watched the 2nd tho?