The Taliban

[Destructus86]

It's no surprising that there is so much war in that part of the world. I know people say Muslim's are a religion of peace but it's just not true. There have been so many news stories about muslims harassing, beating and even killing non-Muslims.

They are pretty good at the angry mob thing that likes to beat "infidels" though. They have that down to an art.

 

[SV Fan]

It's no surprising that there is so much war in that part of the world. I know people say Muslim's are a religion of peace but it's just not true. There have been so many news stories about muslims harassing, beating and even killing non-Muslims.

Every religion claims to be the religion of peace. I am fairly certain the majority of level headed Muslims(like the majority of level headed people of any other religion) are rather peaceful, it's just a case of a bunch of bad apples ruin it for the whole bunch.

By my observations, most peaceful religion seems to be Buddhism or Hinduism

 

[OstrichsRevenge]

There is violence and war in every part of the world where religion is prevalent and dictates public and government policies.

 

[chamber-music]

There is something like 1.7 Billion Muslims in the world upon last check. The amount of fundamentalist lunatics who actually believe in, take part in or follow terrorists who commit atrocities in the name of Islam is a very small minority of that amount.

If almost two billion Muslims wanted to cause death and destruction things would be far worst than they are in the world right now.

You also have to factor in that Islam just like Christianity and other major religions has different denominations. There is lots of sectarian violence going on between various Islamic sects as well as tribal conflicts between various people in the middle east.

 

[Destructus86]

There is something like 1.7 Billion Muslims in the world upon last check. The amount of fundamentalist lunatics who actually believe in, take part in or follow terrorists who commit atrocities in the name of Islam is a very small minority of that amount.

If almost two billion Muslims wanted to cause death and destruction things would be far worst than they are in the world right now.

You also have to factor in that Islam just like Christianity and other major religions has different denominations. There is lots of sectarian violence going on between various Islamic sects as well as tribal conflicts between various people in the middle east.

See...for me, I wasn't even talking about extremists. I'm talking about your typical Muslim (not ones that live here in the western world) that gang up on other people. It's not exactly a rare event over there. I've known people over there and it can get pretty bad. It's not uncommon for Muslims to look down on other people for being a different color or religion. They'll throw trash at you or rocks. Fun stuff.

 

[chamber-music]

Its not uncommon for people almost anywhere to look down on people from different religions or ethnicities. I wouldn't say that is a trait only found amongst the muslim population of the world.

 

[Siby]

Sorry, not getting into this topic *AT ALL*, but can you just quickly say for the record that serial killers aren't necessarily evil and it's all just arbitrary and subjective, just so I can put you on perma-ignore?
Cause I'm not interested one ****ing bit in anything a person like this has to say.

If you can't understand that concepts of "good" and "evil" are subjective and a created from religious doctrines then you and I cannot have an intellectual discussion on such topics. There is no such thing as good and evil in nature. It is a man made definition for heinous acts. Every society has a variance on how good and evil are defined. These differences show that the two concepts are artificial. Can you prove that "good" and "evil" aren't subjective?

Do I think or believe serial killers are "evil", I suppose you can say that they are. In nature there will always be predators. How you define them is up to society. I personally find pedophiles the closest thing to "evil" as can be. Then rapists and serial killers.

My discussion of this topic was meant to be academic and done without letting emotion cloud the issue. I hope you understand that but if you feel you cannot do that then I guess this will be the last time you'll be seeing my posts. Good luck!

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

See...for me, I wasn't even talking about extremists. I'm talking about your typical Muslim (not ones that live here in the western world) that gang up on other people. It's not exactly a rare event over there. I've known people over there and it can get pretty bad. It's not uncommon for Muslims to look down on other people for being a different color or religion. They'll throw trash at you or rocks. Fun stuff.

Generalization at it's finest.

Malaysia has plenty of Muslims, and I don't see them throwing trash and rocks at other faiths on a regular basis. Never heard of it on a regular basis in Turkey (over 70 Million) by my Christian friend who moved there, nor India (161 Million Muslims) where my friend went to work, nor China (Over 20 Million Muslims) , any other nation that has it's ***** together.

Where do you see most violence?

Afghanistan = 30+ yrs of war; Soviet Union devastated rural areas, Proxy civil war divided nation along ethnic lines, Pakistan still funding Taliban

Pakistan = Economic failure, sectarian violence

Iraq = Deposed government and Sectarian violence

Palestine = Nation divided, 4+ Million refugees, No citizen status

Syria = Civil War

Egypt = Elected government deposed in military coup, Economic failure, Sectarian Violence

Iran = Foreign Economic Sanctions and Sectarian violence

--

Many of these countries used to centers of learning and tolerance.

Afghanistan was known in it's time for housing Jewish refugees from Russia and Iran. Some of the most influential Poets in the world came from this region, such as Rumi, and from Iran, Nezam, who later inspired such writers as Shakespeare.

Pakistan became a refuge for Muslims from India during partition. Many Pakistanis hid Sikhs and Hindus from persecution during partition and vice versa on the Indian side.

Syria under Islamic rule had complete toleration of Christian Arameans and Assyrians and became a center of learning and promotion of literature.

Egypt held one of the oldest universities, (Morocco has the oldest) and has always been a center of learning throughout world history.

--

It's easy to paint all Muslims by a huge brush by some horrible people, but it's actually very foolish and hypocritical.

 

[Siby]

See...for me, I wasn't even talking about extremists. I'm talking about your typical Muslim (not ones that live here in the western world) that gang up on other people. It's not exactly a rare event over there. I've known people over there and it can get pretty bad. It's not uncommon for Muslims to look down on other people for being a different color or religion. They'll throw trash at you or rocks. Fun stuff.

I think you, as most people in the West, falsely mistake Islam the religion with the regional culture. In order to understand people "over there", you need to be educated enough to understand the teaching of Islam the religion versus the cultural norms.

Your statement in bold negates your argument about there being an inherent problem with Muslims and in turn Islam. If your typical regular Muslim is not violent or aggressive in the Western world but they are in the non-western world then doesn't it indicate an issue with the society those actions are happening in?

Hindus in India do brutal things to others. Christians all over do brutal things to others. Does that mean that Hinduism and Christianity are bad religions? No it doesn't. Bad people wanting to do bad things use religion to promote their agendas. As someone said, if all Muslims are bad then wouldn't almost two billion people do far worse all over the world? If Islam is so bad why is it the fastest growing religion in the world?

Without Muslim scholars we wouldn't have the Arabic Numerical system. Without Muslim influence the West wouldn't have gotten out of the Dark Age. It never ceases to amaze me how little people know about Islam and Muslims in the USA. I really believe that if there was more knowledge about the history we wouldn't have a lot of the problems we have today. Even Thomas Jefferson recognized the importance of Islam back in his time. But somewhere along the way we went astray from thoughtful understanding to fear mongering and xenophobia.

 

[Schlosser85]

See...for me, I wasn't even talking about extremists. I'm talking about your typical Muslim (not ones that live here in the western world) that gang up on other people. It's not exactly a rare event over there. I've known people over there and it can get pretty bad. It's not uncommon for Muslims to look down on other people for being a different color or religion. They'll throw trash at you or rocks. Fun stuff.

And I'm sure you'd get offended if I said the same about Christians.

 

[justpassinby]

If you can't understand that concepts of "good" and "evil" are subjective and a created from religious doctrines then you and I cannot have an intellectual discussion on such topics.

Why would I want an "intellectual" discussion with pretentious nitwits like you?
Religious doctrines lol... how many of them? They adopted the concepts of "good people" and "bad people" from real life / humanity's moral compass, not the other way around.

There is no such thing as good and evil in nature. It is a man made definition for heinous acts.

You deny the reality of evil, yet use "heinous" as a qualifier

Every society has a variance on how good and evil are defined. These differences show that the two concepts are artificial.

Cultural relativism, correct? Is that the reason why you go for the whole "it's relative" thing, so you can excuse every culture?
Just a hunch you know.

Can you prove that "good" and "evil" aren't subjective?

Um... yea?
Step 1: Define the terms (as you have to do with any other term) - evil = intentionally doing bad things to other people for selfish/insufficient reasons.
Step 2: Determine how subjective the "bad" part is... well, accounting for the occasional masochist / completely apathetic person, pretty ****ing objective. You'll know when it happens to you.

Do I think or believe serial killers are "evil", I suppose you can say that they are. In nature there will always be predators. How you define them is up to society. I personally find pedophiles the closest thing to "evil" as can be. Then rapists and serial killers.

Ooookay... at least you're not as bad as I thought.

Well yea then, since you're just the standard "oh but you know that thing you think to know is just a construct... from religion! we advanced people should really leave behind such childish notions" kind of clown, not the away with morality creeper you came off initially, no ignore for you I guess.

Well carry on then!

 

[justpassinby]

And I'm sure you'd get offended if I said the same about Christians.

They aren't doing this anywhere as much now as they used to, though. Muslims used to be the superior group at one time, now they've taken up our medieval ancestors' torch for a while.
Christians are the most persecuted religion around the globe nowadays, to my knowledge - but I'm not offended if someone talks about them dishing it out when it happens. They certainly would if it the Reconstructionists had their way

 

[OstrichsRevenge]

They aren't doing this anywhere as much now as they used to, though. Muslims used to be the superior group at one time, now they've taken up our medieval ancestors' torch for a while.
Christians are the most persecuted religion around the globe nowadays, to my knowledge - but I'm not offended if someone talks about them dishing it out when it happens. They certainly would if it the Reconstructionists had their way

Christians are persecuted? That's cute. They seem to have a nice stranglehold on the US and many African nations. Religion in general is ridiculous and we would all be better off if it was eradicated.

 

[justpassinby]

Christians are persecuted? That's cute. They seem to have a nice stranglehold on the US and many African nations. Religion in general is ridiculous and we would all be better off if it was eradicated.

I said in the world - no **** they're dominating the West

Yea, I was kind of surprised to learn that it wasn't the Jews, but apparently they're only second (first on conspiracy list, but 2nd on persecution one) - mainstream sources seem to agree on this.
Muslims seem to make up the major bulk of the perpetrators by the way

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Muslims seem to make up the major bulk of the perpetrators by the way

Keep passing by and move along You have nothing positive to contribute than more generalizations of 1.5 Billion people.

 

[OstrichsRevenge]

I said in the world - no **** they're dominating the West

Yea, I was kind of surprised to learn that it wasn't the Jews, but apparently they're only second (first on conspiracy list, but 2nd on persecution one) - mainstream sources seem to agree on this.
Muslims seem to make up the major bulk of the perpetrators by the way

Your source for this supposed persecution?

 

[Schlosser85]

Why would I want an "intellectual" discussion with pretentious nitwits like you?

Drop. the. name. calling.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

They aren't doing this anywhere as much now as they used to, though. Muslims used to be the superior group at one time, now they've taken up our medieval ancestors' torch for a while.
Christians are the most persecuted religion around the globe nowadays, to my knowledge - but I'm not offended if someone talks about them dishing it out when it happens. They certainly would if it the Reconstructionists had their way

And where are these persecuted Christians mostly living in?

Pakistan? - Failed State, Weak Rule of Law, More money diverted to Army than any other institution

Iran? Under Economic Sanctions, Religious Coup followed Puppet Regime that deposed democratically elected leader

Iraq? Under harsh sanctions before 2003, Foreign invasion, ran by Megalomaniac CIA helped install

Palestine? Most of them are Christian Arabs and they are being persecuted by Zionist Jews.

India? Equally hated by Hindus

North Korea? 'nuff said

Afghanistan? Virtually no Christians to talk about, most of them converts by missionaries disguised as Aid Groups, ie. "Stealth Crusade"

Nigeria? The Northern Militant groups persecute Muslims too.

Syria? Autocratic state ruled by Monarchy, Sectarian violence and currently in Civil War.
--

Yup, model "Muslim" States.

 

[Schlosser85]

Religions are all plagiarized from each other. They're not "good" or "bad", people are, and how people use them.

#twocents

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Your source for this supposed persecution?

Not really accurate article released around the beginning of the year.

Here is an Op-Ed via Huff Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kelly-james-clark/christianity-most-persecuted-religion_b_2402644.html


--

He is talking about Christian Persecution, but fails to address that most of the violence is in failed states:

He mentions that there was a giant exodus of Christians from Iraq prior to the US invasion. What he fails to acknowledge is that Iraq was under heavy US sanctions at the time and Christians were offered asylum abroad; some of which was spear-headed by Christian groups in Europe and USA. The megalomaniac Saddam became more radicalized near the end of his reign, and had ambitions of uniting the Arab world under Islam.

Another model "Muslim" nation he mentions is Pakistan, which of course, everybody knows is a failed state that went bankrupt trying to compete with India.

----

Another nations on his list include such bastions of great governance such as Iran and Sudan (both of which persecute minority Muslims as well).

--

 

[justpassinby]

So when it's a "failed state" it doesn't count, only true Sctosmen, Muslim minorities being persecuted as well (oh the shock) eliminates it, and saying that one religion is CURRENTLY the most violent one judged by numbers and impact is somehow "generalizing 1.5 million" people... yea you know what, I'm so outta here.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Actually, Christians being a persecuted minority may seem laughable if you live in the US - and American Christians who claim they are being persecuted are usually full of it. However, there are millions who are actually being seriously persecuted in other parts of the world.

In fact, right now the US and Europe are seeing a considerable influx of Christians from the Middle East fleeing real persecution (this isn't unprecedented, either).

In countries like Pakistan, China, Iraq, and Egypt (to name a few), Christians really are being oppressed, both by the state, and by other religious groups.

We actually have no idea how many Christians there really are in China, since millions live in secrecy. However, they're relatively well off, compared to some of the others on the list. It's just an interesting note, that China may be one of the most Christian country demographically in the world. However, the government only recognizes 14 million.

 

[justpassinby]

Never said US or Europe, just for the record.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Basically all institutionalized religion is designed to serve one goal: to keep the poor and uneducated in line, and prevent them from questioning the merits of those with power and wealth. Warfare has traditionally been the most efficient way for the powerful to dispose of excess men and boys from the lower classes.

Islam is not unique as a religion to bear these qualities, but is the most painfully obvious one. I despise the Taliban, but appreciate them for the fact that they make the above argument so easy to illustrate.

 

[OstrichsRevenge]

Basically all institutionalized religion is designed to serve one goal: to keep the poor and uneducated in line, and prevent them from questioning the merits of those with power and wealth. Warfare has traditionally been the most efficient way for the powerful to dispose of excess men and boys from the lower classes.

Islam is not unique as a religion to bear these qualities, but is the most painfully obvious one. I despise the Taliban, but appreciate them for the fact that they make the above argument so easy to illustrate.

^ This