Two questions I have regarding The Matrix series:

[Diemtay]

I love the trilogy, but these two questions have always puzzled me. IMDB forums are slow as hell, so I figured I'd post them here because I'm sure there's some fans here.

Anyway...

From Wiki: This time, the power of choice was added to the programming, where humans would be allowed the power to choose, even if the person was only aware of the choice on a vague, unconscious level.

The Architect explained that in order for the Matrix's to work after the failure of the first two, they had to be designed in a way that allowed people to choose their reality, for them to have a choice. This goes against what we know about The Matrix.

It doesn't make sense, because in the films, the people who are in the Matrix aren't given a choice to choose between the Matrix and the real world, they are 'convinced' that the world they live in is reality, and they are forced from birth to be in the Matrix. Choice isn't involved at all there. The average person who lives in the Matrix, spends their who life convinced there is no other choice of reality, they simply have to exist and there's nothing they can do to change it... it's not about choice at all, it's about just accepting your life or just killing yourself.

The only people who "do" have a choice are the people who are contacted by the ones from Zion, like Neo was with Morpehous. He was a part of the select few who was given a choice because someone told him, but for the majority of people in the Matrix, they have no idea there is another choice available.

Why did humans reject the first Matrix that was designed? (the utopia)

Smith and the Architect stated that the first Matrix that was ever created was designed as a utopia, a perfect place, but as Smith said, the humans rejected this utopia, as they define their existence by pain.

I'm not sure I understand the meaning behind this. Hypothetically speaking, if a human lived in a perfect world, why would they reject this? Wouldn't they want to live in a world without pain and suffering? I don't see why any person would logically reject living in a paradise.

Regarding the problem of choice... Look at it like this, if you were born into a perfect world, and you were conditioned to think it was reality, you wouldn't worry about choosing it or not, because you accept that you simply exist, you can't chose to exist or not exist, it's not a matter of choice. Those people in the perfect world wouldn't know it's simply a program, so why and how would they reject a world that they are convinced is real?

And how exactly did the people go about "rejecting" the first matrix? Were they all just angry and pissed off because they lived in a perfect world? Did they riot or something? I mean, what exactly happened that forced The Architect to redesign the matrix? I mean, I'd think as long as people were in the matrix it would be fine for the machines, they don't care what the people do in the matrix, as long as their in it creating body heat for their energy supply, it would only be if everyone started killing themselves would the machines need to redesign the matrix so they dont end up killing all their batteries.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

ok, quick answer, cause i am not feeling too good and am off to bed in a minute....

in regards to the first question....perhaps they are not talking about the choice you are talking about, but merely that the machines tried to make people's choices for them within the matrix, tried to lead their lives for them to a large extent?

which can lead into the second question...if the matrix tried to control the humans along the lines of shaping their reality to the point of it being a utopia, well, it's going to feel a little off to a human isn't it? What does a machine think a human utopia would be? i mean, people are still debating that philosophically right? so, how do the machines know what to do to create a utopia where humans are happy, if even humans don't know for sure?
eg A machine could think that giving humans whatever they want whenever they want it would be their idea of a 'utopia', but imagine the problems that would create as people's desires clashed with one another...

and in general, something will just not feel right to people unless there is a reward and punishment system, or any option out there to work towards a goal, to give life a sense of purpose...if the matrix just gave everyone what they wanted all the time, there would be no sense of satisfaction at having earned anything, sure, you might say that you will get folk just putting their feet up and raking it in, but i think even for people like that who want to be lazy and laxidasical in their thinking, in a reality where there was nothing but this way of being, it would feel desperately empty to them , because in our reality, the lazy know there is an option out there for them to work hard and get rewarded, they can always better their lives if they want to, in other words, you have to have the option to work to enjoy being lazy, so that you know that the option is always there to give purpose to your life.
Otherwise your existence would just feel like nothing, the 'why are we here?' question would be even more overwhelming if there was no concept out there like that, working towards a goal, striving against the odds, for people to take ahold of and give purpose to their lives, so a lot of existential angst and depression would set in.

So, then we have the question of why this would be bad for the machines, well, what you do to yourself in the matrix affects your real body...so perhaps there was just an overwhelming effect of apathy, mental illness, suicides,...which contributed to the batteries not running so well, and dying off in some cases...

and on that note i am off to bed... g'night

 

[Diemtay]

ok, quick answer, cause i am not feeling too good and am off to bed in a minute....

in regards to the first question....perhaps they are not talking about the choice you are talking about, but merely that the machines tried to make people's choices for them within the matrix, tried to lead their lives for them to a large extent?

which can lead into the second question...if the matrix tried to control the humans along the lines of shaping their relaity to the point of it being a utopia, well, it's going to feel a little off to a human isn't it? It depends of what a machine thought a human utopia would be, i mean, people are still debating that philosophically right? so, how do the machines know what to do to create a utopia where humans are happy, if even humans don't know?
eg A machine could think that giving humans whatever they want whenever they want it would be their idea of a 'utopia', but imagine the problems that would create as people's desires clashed with one another...

and in general, something will just not feel right unless there is a reward and punishment system, if the matrix just gave everyone what they wanted all the time, there would be no sense of satisfaction at having earned anything, sure, you might say that you will get folk just putting their feet up and raking it in, but i think even for people like that who want to be lazy and laxidasical in their thinking, in a reality where there was nothing but this way of being, it would feel empty to them , because in our reality, the lazy know there is an option out there for them to work hard and get rewarded, they can always better their lives if they want to, in other words, you have to have the option to work to enjoy being lazy, so that you know that the option is always there to give purpose to your life.
Otherwise your existence would just feel like nothing, the 'why are we here?' question would be even more overwhelming if there was no concept out there like that, working towards a goal, striving against the odds, out there for people to take ahold of and give purpose to their lives, so a lot of existential angst and depression would set in.

So, then we have the question of why this would be mad for the machines, well, what you do to yourself in the matrix affects your real body...so perhaps there was just an overwhelming effect of apathy, mental illness, suicides,...which contributed to the batteries not running so well, dying off...

and on that note i am off to bed... g'night, and i am not even gonna proof read that tower of babble...haha

eh, proofread some typos

That was a really good post actually. I didn't look at it that way. Thanks a lot!

Post again when you're feeling more awake, I'd love to hear a more thought out explanation.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

This has nothing to do with your questions TC lol but, I just wanted to say I would LOVE to see another Matrix movie or a new trilogy. Back during the Matrix series hayday a lot of people wanted to see a prequel film staring Morphus looking for the one ( and fails) and meeting Trinity etc.

Or if they did a sequel then there are lots of routes they could go with it. I was a active Matrix Online player and loved the heck out of that game. That game took place after the events of the movies.So in one story mission Morphus got killed. It was a very interesting story arch.