The Rise of Skywalker Uniting the Trilogies

[BatLobster]

I've been thinking a lot about the state of the saga, as well as the state of fandom and geek culture as a whole over the past few weeks. With all the division and anger that's simmering in the fan community, I find myself craving a more productive conversation. There's a bunch I want to get off my chest and put out there, so I apologize in advance if this ends up being a bit rambling.

There's been a bit of chatter for the past few months based on something Terrio supposedly said about how Episode IX will unite the three trilogies and bring everything together. Whether or not that's true, I think it's an intriguing and appealing idea. In my opinion, this next film does have the task of serving as a conclusion to this trilogy as well as the saga as a whole. Sure, it's possible that Disney will continue the saga down the road, but ROTJ was able to serve as an effective ending to the saga for 34 years. I think it's only fair to hold Episode IX to a similar standard in terms of offering resolution and finality.

With that said, I want to talk about Rey. I just want to say up front that before TLJ came out I was the biggest "she MUST be a Skywalker and/or Kenobi!" person, and post-TLJ I am much more willing to accept her being a nobody as the likely outcome. That is a testament to TLJ. However, I want to push back a bit on something.

I think some people have gone a bit too far in reading this as a harsh indictment on the "bloodline" aspect of Star Wars. See, regardless of all the chosen one stuff in the PT, I never saw Luke as any sort of royal blood. I just watched ROTJ, and that stuff is so powerful precisely because you're dealing with a man who is in danger of becoming his father, but is fighting to save him. That struggle just makes it all the more rich and layered. The family drama of it all is a big part of the appeal of Star Wars to me. So I think it's worthy clarifying- I think that's a big part of the reason why people like the idea of Rey being 'someone'. It's not because she can only be "worth something" if she's from a noteworthy bloodline.

I like the Rey character as is, I love Daisy's portrayal of her. That will be the case no matter who she is. For me, the appeal of her being related to someone in the story was always in maintaining that aspect of family drama in the saga for its emotional richness. Not because I'm only willing to her accept her being powerful if high midi-chlorian counts are in her genes. I couldn't care less about that...for me it's all about a moment like the one where Luke removes Vader's helmet and father and son lock eyes for the first time. That scene just does not have the same mythic power if you remove that family connection. It makes the saga as intimate as it is expansive and epic.

I'm not saying there is no value to the idea of her being nobody. It absolutely is a valid direction to go in. But at the same time, I still think her abandonment /identity issue is something that still needs to be resolved one way or another in IX. We've only seen her just finally admit to herself that her parents truly abandoned her like trash- and on top of it they're dead. That's still a hell of a thing to cope with, especially considering her other would-be surrogate parental figures- Han, Luke (and sadly Leia) will all be gone in IX too. Viewing this trilogy as one big story, it doesn't feel like that thread is over to me. Like Rian Johnson said, this was simply the hardest truth for her to have to confront in this chapter in the story. In other words, IF she was indeed related to someone significant, Episode VIII certainly wouldn't have been the time to find out. It'd be handing her exactly what she wants on a silver platter. So regardless of where it goes, it was the right choice for this film. And it creates a nice "a hero can emerge from anywhere" theme. That's great. It's been missing from Star Wars for decades, and it's good to have it back at the fore.

The problem for me is people just slamming the door shut in such a definitive way. Only viewing it through the lens of meta-commentary and not looking at it through the lens of the actual story and the saga. "Nope, this movie settled it, she's nobody and if they go back on that then it's total BS!"

I think that's every bit as rigid and dogmatic as the people claiming Star Wars is dead now. JJ and Terrio have a pretty open canvas to work with, and can resolve the story in plenty of different ways. It will all be dependent on execution as to whether or not it works. It's already starting to feel like instead of fan theories, the problem with fandom going into Episode IX will be holding it to maintaining all the deconstruction TLJ did, when in fact it may have always been intended to do some reconstruction, as trilogy conclusions tend to do.

I'm growing to love TLJ more and more, but having viewed these films as the Skywalker saga for my whole life...it's still not the easiest adjustment to suddenly stop viewing it that way. I feel like I'm halfway there, but I still need to see how Kylo and Rey's arcs resolve before I can really have any perspective on what it means for the saga as a whole. All I can do at this point is keep an open mind.

There was more I wanted to get into, but I already feel like I've rambled too much. Hope to hear some thoughts from you guys, either in response to anything I've said or just general thoughts on the ways in which Episode IX can possibly tie this whole thing together.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The one thing I don't like about the uniting the 3 trilogies idea is...that means accepting Episodes 1-3

I know Episodes 7 and 8 have made a couple references to them, but mostly vague ones. I just hate those movies, lol.

 

[Orba]

The problem with fully uniting the trilogies is that in many ways they work better as separate units. If you look at the OT it is built around a single scene "I am your Father", it puts a new twist on what came before and to dominates what comes after. That reveal is the linchpin of the trilogy yet its only a shocking reveal if you had seen the OT before you saw the PT.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The problem with fully uniting the trilogies is that in many ways they work better as separate units. If you look at the OT it is built around a single scene "I am your Father", it puts a new twist on what came before and to dominates what comes after. That reveal is the linchpin of the trilogy yet its only a shocking reveal if you had seen the OT before you saw the PT.

100% agreed

Watching the saga in Episode 1-8 order is a mistake for this reason, and further there are inconsistencies between the trilogies. Is Episode 9 really going to try and tell us things like how Leia can remember her mother but Luke cannot after she died all of 10 seconds into their lives? I doubt that is what they mean by uniting them, but we'll just have to see how this plays out.

 

[BatLobster]

Hah, I don't think they meant filling in all plot holes, and that's not how I took it anyway. The saga is full of those quirks and inconsistencies. Leave it to the peripheral materials to plug up some of those.

I'm talking thematically. I think that's already happening, anyway. I'm talking about viewing this saga as a trilogy of trilogies. Three separate trilogies that comment on and enhance one another thematically in some way. How will the completion of the 3rd trilogy alter how we view the broader Star Wars myth? That's what I'm getting at it. Viewing order has nothing to do with it.

I think it's something pretty interesting consider, especially within the context of Rey as a character.

 

[Brother Jack]

I think it hinges mainly on Kylo and whether or not they redeem him, because he is now the last of the Skywalker line for all intents and purposes (saying with the sincere hope that they do not retcon Rey's parentage). If he is not redeemed the arc of the ST would basically boil down to the end of the Skywalker blood line and its end being replaced by something larger. It would be doubling down on the "a Jedi can be anyone" idea Rian Johnson ran with (which you could extrapolate to mean "a Skywalker can be anyone") as well as the theme of letting go of the past to move forward.

But if Kylo is redeemed the Skywalkers wouldn't have to end and IX may conclude with a more unifying message, depending on how they do it. I've seen compelling theories that Rey and Kylo's hypothetical romance could bring about Ben Solo's redemption and finally bring balance to the force. It could just be somebody's fanfic gone philosophical, but it would parallel with the other trilogies. The Jedi's denial of emotional attachments is what ultimately lead Anakin to the dark side, and it was Luke's love for his father that redeemed Vader. On the one hand it might be too familiar, maybe too predictable, but it would thematically tie all the saga films together.

 

[C. Lee]

100% agreed

Watching the saga in Episode 1-8 order is a mistake for this reason, and further there are inconsistencies between the trilogies. Is Episode 9 really going to try and tell us things like how Leia can remember her mother but Luke cannot after she died all of 10 seconds into their lives? I doubt that is what they mean by uniting them, but we'll just have to see how this plays out.

Episodes 1-3 are so screwed up I wouldn't recommend watching them in conjunction with the rest. If you want to do a STAR WARS marathon I would say start with ROGUE ONE then 4 -8. The first 3 should be watched at some time or another just to give a general idea of the past....but not watched with the rest. For me there are too many inconsistencies (20 years pass from Luke and Leia's births in ROTJ till you see Luke and Leia in ANH, but 35-40 years pass for Uncle Owen, Aunt Beru, and Obi-Wan.....the local Tatooine way of dressing that Uncle Owen is shown as dressing in, in both ROTJ and ANH, becomes the way all Jedi dress in the PT because Obi-Wan dressed like that in ANH, but he was supposed to be in hiding on Tatooine, so he wouldn't dress like a Jedi but he would dress like the locals, such as Owen, do.....there are more but just listing these make me mad).....

 

[Lord]

The Prequels are weak, but they're canon. That's something the filmmakers need to realise and move on from. I would rather they just used elements from that trilogy that make sense to reuse instead of ignoring them completely. For example, the latest Star Wars comics have done an amazing job at connecting to the past and making it feel quite mythic.

Stuff like the droids and the clones have been badly used in the past, but i kept on wodnering why the First Order or Resistance didn't just go use them to expand their military force.

Even though i hate "chosen one" prophecies, i also feel like that one inside the SW universe needs to be dealt with. Otherwise it just becomes a contradiction. I liked the theory that the new trilogy would tie that up by showing that the balance would only come from equality between light and dark. But knowing Abrams, i doubt he'll be that ambitious.

I don't think Rey needs to be a Skywalker in order for the 3 trilogies to be connected. But i hope they connect all three in a meaningful way. I would rather this trilogy felt necessary as oposed to just be an expansion that mostly plays like a repeat of the original trilogy.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Episodes 1-3 are so screwed up I wouldn't recommend watching them in conjunction with the rest. If you want to do a STAR WARS marathon I would say start with ROGUE ONE then 4 -8. The first 3 should be watched at some time or another just to give a general idea of the past....but not watched with the rest. For me there are too many inconsistencies (20 years pass from Luke and Leia's births in ROTJ till you see Luke and Leia in ANH, but 35-40 years pass for Uncle Owen, Aunt Beru, and Obi-Wan.....the local Tatooine way of dressing that Uncle Owen is shown as dressing in, in both ROTJ and ANH, becomes the way all Jedi dress in the PT because Obi-Wan dressed like that in ANH, but he was supposed to be in hiding on Tatooine, so he wouldn't dress like a Jedi but he would dress like the locals, such as Owen, do.....there are more but just listing these make me mad).....

100% agreed on these points. All these things always bugged me about the PT, especially how the Jedi dress. It makes no sense.

 

[BatLobster]

100% agreed on these points. All these things always bugged me about the PT, especially how the Jedi dress. It makes no sense.

To be fair, ROTJ kinda started this when force ghost Anakin comes back as a ghost wearing the same robes.

The Prequels are weak, but they're canon. That's something the filmmakers need to realise and move on from. I would rather they just used elements from that trilogy that make sense to reuse instead of ignoring them completely. For example, the latest Star Wars comics have done an amazing job at connecting to the past and making it feel quite mythic.

Stuff like the droids and the clones have been badly used in the past, but i kept on wodnering why the First Order or Resistance didn't just go use them to expand their military force.

Even though i hate "chosen one" prophecies, i also feel like that one inside the SW universe needs to be dealt with. Otherwise it just becomes a contradiction. I liked the theory that the new trilogy would tie that up by showing that the balance would only come from equality between light and dark. But knowing Abrams, i doubt he'll be that ambitious.

I don't think Rey needs to be a Skywalker in order for the 3 trilogies to be connected. But i hope they connect all three in a meaningful way. I would rather this trilogy felt necessary as oposed to just be an expansion that mostly plays like a repeat of the original trilogy.

This is my hope too. To me, it needs to feel like one big story in order to justify undoing the ending of the original trilogy.

I think we're already part of the way there. Luke openly discussing the failures of the old Jedi was very much tying the PT into the larger arc, because that's never really addressed in the OT.

As far as the prophecy goes, I think it would be interesting if the original chosen one prophecy is in one of the ancient Jedi texts that Rey now has. If they wanted to further explore it, they've got an easy avenue to do so. I don't know that they need to though. Seems like it's currently being brushed off by LFL as "it predicted the end of the Sith, but not the end of darkness". Hence Kylo and Snoke not being Sith. It's a bit wonky, but that may be all there is to it. I really feel like I need an explanation as to why Snoke is/was not a Sith, but pretty much fits the bill to a T. I don't think we're done learning about Snoke, personally.

I'm not gonna go full Plagueis here, but IF they were ever to do that character in a movie...it would be much more interesting to actually show him cheating death rather than just explaining "oh yeah this is that guy mentioned in that one scene in Episode 3 who supposedly could cheat death but sorta not". So for me, killing him was perfect. It's either an acknowledgement that he's not important in this story, or it sets him up to be the ultimate baddie who can return from the grave in some fashion.

My point in bringing up these ideas isn't to say "I want my fan theories connecting everything to be true, or else!". I'm open to whatever they do. I just think some fans are being way too sure of themselves in thinking that things like Rey's parentage and Snoke's identity can't be explored in IX. Rian Johnson has said himself that they still can be and that it's in JJ and Terrio's hands.

 

[Frodo]

I just think some fans are being way too sure of themselves in thinking that things like Rey's parentage and Snoke's identity can't be explored in IX. Rian Johnson has said himself that they still can be and that it's in JJ and Terrio's hands.

That's pretty much what I thought ever since seeing TLJ and some of the backlash that occurred. This is Hollywood, so you can never say never. Changes are made, ideas expanded upon etc. It happen regularly in tentpole franchises like this. These aren't biopics, they're fantasies .

Leia wasn't supposed to be Luke's sister until Lucas decided otherwise for ROTJ and its pretty clear JJ had other ideas in mind for some of TFA awaken characters than what Johnson had in mind.

I think alot of the resistance to expanding upon Reys Parentage and Snoke's identity comes from people who liked what Johnson did and don't want it to be undone by JJ and Terrio. But we'll see.

For all we know, JJ might not touch the parents and Snoke thing, and instead, move on the story forward to new plot elements.

 

[BatLobster]

That's pretty much what I thought ever since seeing TLJ and some of the backlash that occurred. This is Hollywood, so you can never say never. Changes are made, ideas expanded upon etc. It happen regularly in tentpole franchises like this. These aren't biopics, they're fantasies .

Leia wasn't supposed to be Luke's sister until Lucas decided otherwise for ROTJ and its pretty clear JJ had other ideas in mind for some of TFA awaken characters than what Johnson had in mind.

I think alot of the resistance to expanding upon Reys Parentage and Snoke's identity comes from people who liked what Johnson did and don't want it to be undone by JJ and Terrio. But we'll see.

For all we know, JJ might not touch the parents and Snoke thing, and instead, move on the story forward to new plot elements.

Yeah, and that's kind of why as someone who is also a fan of TLJ I want to voice the other side of the argument. I liked the choices- for this movie. I agree with Rian Johnson's assessment that her parents being nobodies who abandoned her would be the hardest thing for her to have to confront in this film. That's not to say there couldn't be more to the story though. We still don't know anything about who they were, if they are in fact her birth parents, or anything. I just didn't go into this film expecting definitive answers to anything. Middle films are usually about crisis. Answers to questions, resolutions- that's third film territory. And I'm not saying that Rey has to be anybody. My point is I think hardcore fans like us are too close to this and are looking more at the meta-angle of what TLJ is trying to say than just looking at it as a story. My wife and another friend of mine that's a casual fan were totally unfazed and walked out of the film thinking there's still a 50/50 shot she turns out to be related to someone.

And now even Johnson himself seems to be trying to leave the door a crack open.

Following the reveal, some fans are still questioning Rey’s parentage, especially since the news was delivered via Kylo Ren. Like Johnson said, it’s possible that Kylo is looking for any information, true or not, he can use as “leverage” against Rey. The director previously told Collider that Kylo was sincere in his remarks, but he elaborated to HuffPost that the truth might depend on how you look at things.

“With all of these movies, Obi-Wan’s whole speech about a certain point of view always applies, so I think that you have to always think about the context of how information is given. But for me, dramatically, that’s why that reveal at that moment made sense,” Johnson said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/that-big-last-jedi-reveal-about-rey-isnt-solved-after-all_us_5a39a21ee4b025f99e130e7f

It's now up to JJ and Terrio to wrap this thing up in a bow in a satisfying way that honors TFA, TLJ and the saga as a whole.

 

[BigSams50]

Honestly, i would just wish they Did Episode I-X about the Skywalker family, and then just move on to other parts of the galaxy.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

I'd say the trilogies already feel united with Luke in the mentor role for a young Jedi.

But the ST (TLJ in particular) has also set up some themes that use both the OT and the PT to build (the cyclical nature of war, the world is more morally grey than you think, learning from the mistakes of the past, etc), which makes it feel united to me.

 

[TheNavigator]

I'd say the trilogies already feel united with Luke in the mentor role for a young Jedi.

But the ST (TLJ in particular) has also set up some themes that use both the OT and the PT to build (the cyclical nature of war, the world is more morally grey than you think, learning from the mistakes of the past, etc), which makes it feel united to me.

The anger to TLJ is palpable and apparently there was a meeting amongst Disney execs on why it’s underperforming in both BO & merchandise. I think 2 of the biggest problems besides narrative flow was the way in which they handled Luke and Rey’s parentage reveal.

We don’t need to debate the Luke treatment but suffice it to say OT fans and even Hamil himself were less than pleased with the character’s treatment and how “off” it was from the Luke we saw in ROTJ.

As to Rey. I think they have to retcon at this point. This is a Skywalker saga and you can’t disrupt the two most important aspects of Star Wars-lineage and legacy.

The easy solution is to make her Ben’s sister. She was the more powerful of the siblings which made Ben jealous. This was the darkness Luke sensed in Ben. His jealousy of his sister would lead him to kill her and become a sith. To protect Rey he mindwiped the galaxy to forget her-even himself until the force awakened within her bringing her back into the fold.

This would help negate her Mary Sue qualities and explain why she was so proficient with the lightsaber and seemed familiar in the Falcon along with her fatherly bond with Han.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if this is where they go. It answers a lot of the plot holes in Force Awakens and makes this trilogy once again a skywalker saga

 

[Spider-Fan]

Sorry man, but that just sounds Fan Fic-ish to me. As for Disney having a meeting about this, do you have a source on this?

 

[Frodo]

Yeah, and that's kind of why as someone who is also a fan of TLJ I want to voice the other side of the argument. I liked the choices- for this movie. I agree with Rian Johnson's assessment that her parents being nobodies who abandoned her would be the hardest thing for her to have to confront in this film. That's not to say there couldn't be more to the story though. We still don't know anything about who they were, if they are in fact her birth parents, or anything. I just didn't go into this film expecting definitive answers to anything. Middle films are usually about crisis. Answers to questions, resolutions- that's third film territory. And I'm not saying that Rey has to be anybody. My point is I think hardcore fans like us are too close to this and are looking more at the meta-angle of what TLJ is trying to say than just looking at it as a story. My wife and another friend of mine that's a casual fan were totally unfazed and walked out of the film thinking there's still a 50/50 shot she turns out to be related to someone.

And now even Johnson himself seems to be trying to leave the door a crack open.

[

Oh yeah definitely. I think as far as fans go, TLJ has been so polarizing that either side of the debate tends to not want to concede anything, so its become all or nothing thing. So its either all Johnson's ideas must remain or all of Johnson's ideas must be thrown out or retconned.

As fans we are too close to it, and when something like TLJ comes out, its hard for fans to remove their emotions from it . As a result, fans tend to hunker down in their positions, and tend to be unwilling to concede that things can play out in a variety of ways.

I wasn't a fan of the Rey's parents explanation , but there are tons of ways you could go forward and play on that explanation, the same way you could expand on why Ben turned to the darkside, the emotional connection Kylo and Rey have , etc. There's nothing that says TLJ gives the definitive answers to every mystery and plotline. There's still another film.

 

[BatLobster]

Oh yeah definitely. I think as far as fans go, TLJ has been so polarizing that either side of the debate tends to not want to concede anything, so its become all or nothing thing. So its either all Johnson's ideas must remain or all of Johnson's ideas must be thrown out or retconned.

As fans we are too close to it, and when something like TLJ comes out, its hard for fans to remove their emotions from it . As a result, fans tend to hunker down in their positions, and tend to be unwilling to concede that things can play out in a variety of ways.

I wasn't a fan of the Rey's parents explanation , but there are tons of ways you could go forward and play on that explanation, the same way you could expand on why Ben turned to the darkside, the emotional connection Kylo and Rey have , etc. There's nothing that says TLJ gives the definitive answers to every mystery and plotline. There's still another film.

Yes! 100% this! The divisiveness of this film is causing people to be more black and white about everything and what they will and will not accept going forward.

When you take a step back, it's rather amusing.

 

[Frodo]

Yes! 100% this! The divisiveness of this film is causing people to be more black and white about everything and what they will and will not accept going forward.

When you take a step back, it's rather amusing.

Yeah, it's amusing. I think both extreme ends of the debate which are actually more alike than they're willing to admit. They both see themselves as protectors of star wars, they both ultimately care about the characters and want whats best for Star Wars, and they both think the other side wants to tear SW down.

I think the further away from the film we get ,the more fans on both sides will feel less dogmatic pro and con about the film. Right now its still fresh and people have their dukes up and are defensive about their positions.

 

[vantheman77]

So how will they unite the trilogies? Through the time traveling portals that were recently introduced in Star Wars Rebels?

 

[Lord]

So how will they unite the trilogies? Through the time traveling portals that were recently introduced in Star Wars Rebels?

I hope not. But why not take a page from the Mortis part of the mythos and expand upon the idea that Light and Dark need to exist in balance?

 

[Brother Jack]

So how will they unite the trilogies? Through the time traveling portals that were recently introduced in Star Wars Rebels?

Ever since I saw that I've had a thought in the back of my mind that Abrams could go there in IX, given his past uses of time travel. I wouldn't say it's impossible that it couldn't work, but it would require a level of graceful execution that I'm not sure Abrams possesses.

 

[vantheman77]

Looking at the way Luke died in The Last Jedi, I feel Ezra used the portal to snatch him.

 

[MaceB]

I can do without StarWars having any time travel, thank you very much.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I am thinking uniting the trilogies will have something to do with explaining more about the nature of the Force, what balance is, and how the struggle between darkness and light works.