BvS What Went Wrong w/ Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (SPOILERS)

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I prefer walking zombies too and running zombies is very Snyder. :funny: But there were some good and intense scenes that utilized them in the film. Not as good as 28 Days Later, but Snyder made them effective and scary.
 
I prefer walking zombies too and running zombies is very Snyder. :funny: But there were some good and intense scenes that utilized them in the film. Not as good as 28 Days Later, but Snyder made them effective and scary.

Or in the case of MOS/BvS...flying, x-ray vision zombies.



:o

:oldrazz:
 
Gambol: "You think you can steal from us and just walk away?"

Joker: "Yeah"

I didn't even notice his response until my second viewing. Nolan's jokes were definitely more hit than miss.
 
I can think of three jokes in this movie. Two of them were unfunny and the third that actually got laughs was followed by Batman murdering someone. Jesus Christ, this movie had no self awareness.
 
At least this one had more attempts at jokes than Man of Steel.
 
Nolan's Batman didn't form an irrational hatred of someone like with Superman in BvS. He didn't brand criminals to be slaughtered in prison. He didn't abandon his vendetta for something as stupid as "Martha". His Bruce was a more layered character, with a stronger heroic core, nailed the playboy act with the philanthropic Bruce Wayne who cares about helping his city, who didn't let the death of someone he cared about turn him into Punisher v2.0.

Caine's Alfred actually chewed Bruce out for when he needlessly acted reckless as Batman, like after the Cop car chase in Begins. He wasn't afraid to adopt the tough love approach and tell Bruce like it is. He had better wit and banter with Bruce. There was a stronger emotional bond between Caine and Bale's characters. Iron was good but he has a long way to go before he can match Caine.

I never said the costume was better. It's the only thing along with some of the action scenes that are better.

Affleck's Batman had an irrational hatred for Superman? He watched Superman's battle kill friends and orphan a little girl. Any version of Batman would've prepared to take down Supes for less.

Branding criminals who did atrocities to get killed in prison is extreme but it's not like Batman never turned in a criminal who later received the death penalty from the state before.

"Martha" reminded Bruce he became Batman to protect, not for revenge. Which is better than deciding not to murder and become Batman because Katie Holmes slapped him. Or being encouraged by the silly Sesame Street quote, "why do we fall".

Bale's Batman has one major scene where he pretends to have two women and lambo. They don't repeat the same thing here. This Batman is older and actually indulges in the perks of being Bruce Wayne. This guy has been Batman for a long time and needs these perks to keep going. Not the "year one" Batman, but still more raw and freshingly relatable.

This Batman killed when he had too not to punish. In a real situation when someone is shooting a mini gun at you and you're trying to save the world, you can't do a sleeper hold.

Snyder's Alfred was damn near perfect. He didn't have the tender exchanges YET, but their relationship and exchanges was exactly like the comics. He was clearly brilliant with possible military training himself. You can see how this man could guide a lost youth into becoming Batman and bail him out in countless situations.
 
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- Everytime Lex opened his mouth.
- The execution of the JL setup.
- The pacing.
- The needless scenes that could have been taken out (like Clark talking to his dad).
- The way the conflict between Supes and Bats was built up, it didn't feel like a clash between ideologies, it just reminded me of New Goblin Vs Spidey (a big old misunderstanding).
- How quickly their conflict was resolved. I get what Snyder was going for with the Martha thing and Bruce finally acknowledging Clark was more than just an Alien but it felt rushed and it didn't sit well with me.
- The scene transitions throughout the movie.
- Doomsday. That's all I'm going to say.
- To a lesser extent - Batman killing. I don't like it but I got over it before watching the film having seen spoilers.
 
Affleck's Batman had an irrational hatred for Superman? He watched Superman's battle kill friends and orphan a little girl. Any version of Batman would've prepared to take down Supes for less.

Yeah, just ignore he was fighting General Zod and his Kryptonians who were as strong as he was. Ignore the ten thousand heroic acts of saving people that Superman has done. That doesn't convince him he's a good guy. No Martha will do that.

If the Joker is lucky his mother is named Martha, too :o

Branding criminals who did atrocities to get killed in prison is extreme but it's not like Batman never turned in a criminal who later received the death penalty from the state before.

I don't need to tell you the big difference between a criminal being handed over to the authorities legally for judgement in the penal system, and Batman deliberately marking men for death himself because he thinks they deserve it.

"Martha" reminded Bruce he became Batman to protect, not for revenge. Which is better than deciding not to murder and become Batman because Katie Holmes slapped him. Or being encouraged by the stupid Sesame Street quote "why do we fall".

Revenge? I thought he was doing it because he saw Superman as a potential huge threat to the world. Or did the movie's sloppy narrative confuse you, too?

Rachel slapping him isn't what convinced him not to kill. It was her words about his father being ashamed of him that did that. Not to mention that is more powerful coming from your childhood best friend, than an alien who you think is going to bring about the end of the world.

Bale's Batman has one major scene where he has two women and lambo. They don't repeat the same thing here. This Batman is older and actually indulges in the perks of being Bruce Wayne. Not the year one Batman, but still more relatable, understandable and fresh.

Bale's Batman had the women in the lambo scene, the string of women on his arm when he arrived at Harvey Dent's party, when he had dinner with the Russian woman from the Moscow Ballet, when he absconded on a love cruise with the entire Russian ballet, when he pulled the drunk act at his birthday party, when he crashed his fancy lambo to save Reese but pretended he had just been trying to catch the green light traffic light etc.

Affleck's Wayne by contrast was a hardened weathered Wayne, not that I didn't enjoy him because it was the only decent part of him character wise, but compared to Bale's we saw a lot more of the real Bruce Wayne than we did here.

This Batman killed when he had too not to punish. In a real situation when someone is shooting a mini gun at you and you're trying to save the world, you can't do a sleeper hold.

Oh please, Batman has been on world saving missions plenty of times. Whether he's up against Ra's Al Ghul or other major threats, and he doesn't need to stack a body count just because it's quicker than fighting them.

That's not Batman.

Snyder's Alfred was damn near perfect. He didn't have the tender exchanges YET, but their relationship and exchanges was exactly like the comics. He was clearly brilliant with possible military training himself. You can see how this man could guide a lost youth into becoming Batman and bail him out countless situations.

Nobody thinks of military training when they think of Alfred. That's like one of the last things you associate with him. Alfred would have tore Bruce a new a-hole if he had been out shooting down thugs needlessly, and branding them for death in jail. That's another awful thing about the whole killing aspect, it makes Alfred look bad, too, because he doesn't say anything and still supports Bruce. Alfred would never do that. As for their exchanges, they were as you said missing the tender ones, which are a big part of the Alfred/Bruce dynamic. So for this and the aforementioned reasons he is far from being near perfect, let alone better than Caine's.

Still Irons was great, and has potential to be as good as Caine, maybe even better. But he has a long way to go for that.
 
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So if SS does well. Will people finally admot Synder is the problem.
 
Is it me or did Doomsday look worse than Abomination? There's absolutely no excuse for that, given that there are two presidential elections worth of time between the two. Doomsday had access to better tech and a lot more post production time.
 
bash snyder all you want but the script was garbage as someone who loved man of steel terrio's script was awful
 
I can think of three jokes in this movie. Two of them were unfunny and the third that actually got laughs was followed by Batman murdering someone. Jesus Christ, this movie had no self awareness.

I actually chuckled at the "I'm a friend of your sons" line. Shades of two kids on a playground LOL. But the movie was brooding 99.9% of the time. Snyder needs to learn to inject lighter elements in order for those darker, emotional elements to shine better by contrast.
 
I liked that line too. Simply because of the absurdity of them suddenly being friends when Wayne was about to impale him a few minutes earlier.
 
Perfect example of how tone deaf Zack Snyder is:

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2016...-batman-v-superman-is-like-watchmen/?mod=e2tw

Snyder was mystified when someone told him that they couldn’t think of a movie in recent memory that’s had as much collateral damage as “Man of Steel.” “I went, really? And I said, well, what about ['Star Wars: The Force Awakens']?” the director says. “In ‘Star Wars’ they destroy five planets with billions of people on them. That’s gotta be one of the highest death toll movies in history, the new ‘Star Wars’ movie, if you just do the math.”

Well **** Zack Snyder. That just excuses everything. Evil space Nazis annihilating a star system with their evil weapon to show how evil they are is way worse than Superman fighting Zod and wrecking buildings without showing any regard for the people getting killed.
 
Not being an alcoholic murderer is a good start. :o

But on a serious note, though the question's not directed at me specifically, how he was handled there closer embodies how I like to see Batman than what Snyder did with the character. And with Alfred, Jeremy Irons gives one of the best performances in the movies but I feel like there isn't the same warmth to their relationship that Caine and Bale had. Maybe both of these could change in a solo film with a better script, but from what's presented here, I don't think either character was done as well as in the Nolan films. When it comes to the costume, I'm without a doubt in the minority on this but I prefer the Nolan one there too. I've always had a preference to full black Batman over black and grey and the muscle-y design of the Batfleck suit isn't my thing. Not a bad suit, certainly, and I can see why people prefer it, but it's not my thing.

I prefer the Begins and TDK suits to this suit in the context of their movie. The Batfleck's suit does look gorgeous in pictures though.

And food for thought: they never say who or what Alfred is in BvS. For all we know he and Bruce are lovers :sly:
 
And food for thought: they never say who or what Alfred is in BvS. For all we know he and Bruce are lovers :sly:

LOL! Well Alfred did say the chances of Bruce having kids are remote.
 
Is it me or did Doomsday look worse than Abomination? There's absolutely no excuse for that, given that there are two presidential elections worth of time between the two. Doomsday had access to better tech and a lot more post production time.

Yep. Doomsday had so little detail and depth I'm wcrusllyactually hockey they let that happen after an extra year of post. Looked like dated tech especially compared to Hulk in Avenegers (the new standard of big movie monsters).
 
I prefer the Begins and TDK suits to this suit in the context of their movie. The Batfleck's suit does look gorgeous in pictures though.

And food for thought: they never say who or what Alfred is in BvS. For all we know he and Bruce are lovers :sly:

Well, when Bruce woke up in bed, there was someone next to him that never appears prior or after. Alfred's the only other person in the house in the following scenes. Hmmm.... :o
 
And food for thought: they never say who or what Alfred is in BvS. For all we know he and Bruce are lovers :sly:

Hah! Great point. There's no attempt to define their relationship. Again, it relies on audience previous knowledge that's not in the narrative itself.
 
I prefer the Begins and TDK suits to this suit in the context of their movie. The Batfleck's suit does look gorgeous in pictures though.

And food for thought: they never say who or what Alfred is in BvS. For all we know he and Bruce are lovers :sly:

That's why I asked who it was that Bruce woke up in bed with...out of focus in the back. Was it Alfred?


Man I hope not.
 
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