BvS What Went Wrong w/ Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice (SPOILERS)

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Well, when Bruce woke up in bed, there was someone next to him that never appears prior or after. Alfred's the only other person in the house in the following scenes. Hmmm.... :o

I'm using this as movie canon now until someone proves to me it isn't so. Makes sense, gay Batman would totally have a fabulous suit like that :woot:
 
Post a link to your Bruce/Alfred gay fanfic when it's finished so we can all read it
 
Post a link to your Bruce/Alfred gay fanfic when it's finished so we can all read it

Watch the movie version from some years back...it's quicker.

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I have not seen anyone address the ridiculous notion that Superman actually AGREED that Batman go off and save his mother. Instead of, you know, saying stay away from my mother you psycho and doing it himself.
This stood out like a sore thumb for me. Took me out of the movie even more.

Think about it.
Superman was fine with a violent vigilante who was just about to slay him, go off rescue his own mother, WTF??

There is so much wrong with the logic in that.

Why was confronting Lex more important than rescuing his own mother?
His mother's life was at stake. Superman would of never trusted Batman [at this stage of their relationship lol] to rescue her.
Superman would of been able to do it far more efficiently and then be at ease knowing his mother was safe.
Did Superman even ask Batman when they met up if his Mother was safe?

This movie just falls apart at the slightest scrutiny.
 
yup made no sense. Superman would have saved her without the bad guys noticing she was gone

also the aquaman scene looked really bad and awkward
 
the cyborg cameo was even worse.
with a budget from WB, they could've at least come up with CGI that did not look like a youtube fan film.
 
Open the movie with the end of MOS, show Bruce arriving, running into the rubbel, basically the same thing.

OPENING TITLE.

Batman is a reckless, vicious vigilante. He pummels criminals like rapists and murderers into near comas. Alfred is deeply concerned about Bruce's growing viciousness, fearful that he'll cross the line. Have the scene where Alfred says that everything's changed also have him glance at Jason's costume just as he says it. Jason's death caused him to shut down as a superhero, but after the events of MOS, he's retaken his mission harder than ever. He has nightmares about his parents deaths and Jason's death intermingling into the same event.

Superman is very much playing with kid gloves. After the events of MOS, he's afraid of his powers, the destructive force he has. He doesn't break bones, he tries to avoid destroying property. He doesn't want anyone else to get hurt. He has ptsd-esque flashbacks about the events of MOS. He still works, he's begun a relationship with Lois, which is struggling because of his disconnected attitude. Clark is obsessed with keeping himself from being something that frightens people, so much so that he's formed a partnership with Metropolis' hometown billionaire to help the city...

Lex is paranoid, rich, ruthless and fearful. As a former abused child, he's grown and constructed his entire life around being powerful, great and untouchable. And then comes Superman, a powerful creature that is better than him, more special than and more powerful than him, something that he can't control, that he can't protect himself from and he can't stand it. He's basically Batman on steroids. The Bruce Wayne worst case scenario. Only in a more self-involved way. He views Superman as a threat in waiting to him personally, not just really the world. Keep Jesse Eisenberg if you must. But make him more physically fit, not overly muscular though. Maybe he trains in some form or multiple forms of karate. He finds any form of inability as inherent weakness.

Side threats Metallo and Bizarro. When Lex will reveal this to Superman he will say, "Aliens, metahumans, magic, it's truly bizarre times we live in. Only fair that we make something just as bizarre to combat it."

Lex uses the kryptonian ship and a sample of Superman's DNA to create a clone, a mentally deficient clone, even a decaying one, something that he can control. He uses it to frame Superman for attacks. This shakes Superman. He sees the public and understands that no matter what he does, he won't be trust by them. He nearly quits because of this. It's really all about Superman's sense of inferiority. He's afraid that he can't help people now that they know he's out there. He's afraid that even though he knows the attacks happening aren't his fault he still fears that it's something he could be capable of. He doesn't see himself as helpful to the world, but as a negative force in it.

There's a running theme of a feeling of inferiority in this story. Lex feels inferior, because Superman's existence makes him feel powerless and inadequate. Batman feels helpless as ever to do good, to help people, because of such a destructive creature like Superman being around. This feeds into his already intense powerlessness at the loss of Jason Todd at the hands of the Joker due to his, as far as Batman's concerned, inaction.

Batman and Superman cross paths twice before the fight. Once during a bank robbery and another during an altercation where Superman does x-ray through Batman's cowl and tells him to stop his vigilantism. Batman rejects this and begins building his suit to combat Superman after he sees the stories about Superman's attacks that are really Bizarro. Superman does some digging on Bruce Wayne, finding out about his parents deaths and the death of his ward, Jason Todd.

Meanwhile Lex has been keeping tabs on Superman and kidnaps Lois Lane or his mom, framing Batman for it, placing a batarang at the scene.

Superman is basically winning the fight, until he stops himself and begins to realize that he and Batman have been manipulated by Lex. Batman capitalizes on Superman's stopping and uses his kryptonite weapons. And Batman begins beating Superman brutally, mercilessly, and we see flashes before Batman's eyes of Jason Todd being beaten half to death by the Joker with the crowbar. He would tell Superman that he's let too much death happen because he wouldn't do what was necessary and that he won't let that happen again. But Superman would convince Batman that he doesn't have to do this, to cross this line, that he understands how he feels.

They would defeat Bizarro and Metallo together. Maybe Wonder Woman could be involved, but she's not really a real problem in the movie, so i didn't think about her character.

Lex would lose his hair when Bizarro unleashes a hit of fire breath onto him after he's been defeated by Superman, burning his head.

Have a very great day everyone!

God bless everyone!
 
Four things stop Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice from being as good as Captain American: The Winter Soldier. Color palette, volume of the score, the lack of cohesion between scenes due to the "Dawn of the Justice League" segue ways and easter eggs, and mild characterization issues.

This film is too damn dark and grainy to look at. Not the content or characters. Not the tone. But the damn film itself. I know Snyder was going for "rich" as per his interviews, but someone please turn on the lights. I wasn't completely sold the first time I watched the Doomsday fight because I couldn't see wtf was going on. It was only on my third viewing in an ironically smaller cinema that I could actually follow it. I know that shooting at night is convenient for keeping the suspension of disbelief in tact. No director wants to deal with "uncanny valley", but if you can't see whats going on it defeats the purpose.

The score was beautiful. Props to Zimmer and Junkie. But it was too damn loud. This is a film where you absolutely CAN NOT miss one piece of dialogue. If you do motivations and characterizations become jarring. Next time turn the volume dial down from 11 to 8. It's telling that I had to watch this three times to catch the exceptional dialogue in this movie. Bruce Wayne being a murderous asscasm makes a lot more sense of you can hear what he and Alfred are saying to each other.

The lack of cohesion is probably the criticism I see repeated the most online. And to a certain extent it's a legit criticism. What happened here was a case of Then Amazing Spider-Man 2: Something Something Electro syndrome. But instead of being relegated to shameless plugs in the background they're front and center. Bruce has a dream, Bruce has another dream, Bruce looks at some Microsoft thumbnails, Bruce fowards some Microsoft thumbnails to Diana. I think it's safe to say the audience has gotten the gist of your message. Meta Humans are out there. Now can we get back to the main event? Now where were we... oh **** I can't remember. See what I mean?

And last but not least is the characterizations and motivations. I don't want my hand held, but please do a better job of explaining to the audience that both Bruce and Clark are undergoing development. I understand what was going on. But I had to watch it three times due to the aforementioned problems. So don't you think it was better if Superman said "You know what? I'm pissed off. I'm doing my best here and it's still not enough." Cavill is doing the best with what he's given, the guy is ace but it's hard to sympathize with the greatest superhero of all time if he doesn't have a voice. Even Yeshua bin Yusef or whatever you want to call him got pissed off and flipped the tables in front of the synagogue.

All of this said Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice is a gem of a film and it's creators do not deserve a fraction of the criticism and hate they're receiving. I staunchly believe that there is comicbook greatness buried beneath careless decision making and despite the piranha attack currently plaguing this film online Zack Snyder and all the crew behind the scenes and in front of the camera have made something they should be proud of. Like Man of Steel this film will prove to be divisive now, but when it's revisited in homes it will probably be redeemed. I stand by my original score of 75/100. Here's to a better Justice League.
 
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Yeah, just ignore he was fighting General Zod and his Kryptonians who were as strong as he was. Ignore the ten thousand heroic acts of saving people that Superman has done. That doesn't convince him he's a good guy. No Martha will do that.

If the Joker is lucky his mother is named Martha, too :o

If an American fighter jet blew up your friends and thousands of others while fighting enemy fighter jets, I'm pretty sure you're going to want to hold the government accountable or possibly prevent it from happening again.


I don't need to tell you the big difference between a criminal being handed over to the authorities legally for judgement in the penal system, and Batman deliberately marking men for death himself because he thinks they deserve it.

This Batman is old and cynical. He's had a war on crime for decades and doesn't have the same ideals. He's capable of being judge, jury and executioner after years of watching the failures of the justice system.

He's closer to TDKR than he is Year One.


Revenge? I thought he was doing it because he saw Superman as a potential huge threat to the world. Or did the movie's sloppy narrative confuse you, too?

Who's confused? Batman clearly lost people close to him and blamed Superman for destroying countless lives. Vengence was definitely influencing his crusade against Superman. He even tells Superman he'll bleed for the first time. Clearly he wants blood.

Rachel slapping him isn't what convinced him not to kill. It was her words about his father being ashamed of him that did that. Not to mention that is more powerful coming from your childhood best friend, than an alien who you think is going to bring about the end of the world.

It's not more powerful. It makes Bruce Wayne look like a naive child getting slapped by his baby sitter. Bruce Wayne should be nearly done with his training as the best crime fighter who ever existed by the time he's an adult. He hasn't been a naive child since the day his parents died. Nolan butchered Bruce Wayne's origin.

Batman's origin story is basically Alexander the Great of crime fighters. A child travels and gets the best mentors in the world, molding a prodigy into a perfected ideal.

Getting slapped by Katie Holmes to wake him up was a joke. Bruce used inhuman determination to become the peak of human potential by that age.



Bale's Batman had the women in the lambo scene, the string of women on his arm when he arrived at Harvey Dent's party, when he had dinner with the Russian woman from the Moscow Ballet, when he absconded on a love cruise with the entire Russian ballet, when he pulled the drunk act at his birthday party, when he crashed his fancy lambo to save Reese but pretended he had just been trying to catch the green light traffic light etc.

Sure, during an entire trilogy focused on Batman. Like I said, BvS takes place long after those times when Bruce has grown tired and cynical of games.


Affleck's Wayne by contrast was a hardened weathered Wayne, not that I didn't enjoy him because it was the only decent part of him character wise, but compared to Bale's we saw a lot more of the real Bruce Wayne than we did here.

We saw a younger Bruce Wayne, not necessarily "the real" Bruce Wayne.


Oh please, Batman has been on world saving missions plenty of times. Whether he's up against Ra's Al Ghul or other major threats, and he doesn't need to stack a body count just because it's quicker than fighting them.

That's not Batman.

I think you're exaggerating Snyder's Batman body count.

He killed when he had no other choice. He didn't snipe everyone with deadly head shots when rescuing Martha.

Nobody thinks of military training when they think of Alfred. That's like one of the last things you associate with him. Alfred would have tore Bruce a new a-hole if he had been out shooting down thugs needlessly, and branding them for death in jail. That's another awful thing about the whole killing aspect, it makes Alfred look bad, too, because he doesn't say anything and still supports Bruce. Alfred would never do that. As for their exchanges, they were as you said missing the tender ones, which are a big part of the Alfred/Bruce dynamic. So for this and the aforementioned reasons he is far from being near perfect, let alone better than Caine's.

Still Irons was great, and has potential to be as good as Caine, maybe even better. But he has a long way to go for that.

Alfred is a retired spy from British Intelligence.

Also he's always been supportive of Bruce's decisions. He cares about his wellbeing like a father and might warn him to make decisions that honor his parents legacy but after decades of losing a war on crime, Alfred would most likely tolerate Bruce's tough on crime methods.
 
If an American fighter jet blew up your friends and thousands of others while fighting enemy fighter jets, I'm pretty sure you're going to want to hold the government accountable or possibly prevent it from happening again.

Obviously prevent it from happening again, but not by killing the pilots of fighter jets, or the Government. Something like that can be prevented legally and without killing anyone. That analogy is bogus.

This Batman is old and cynical. He's had a war on crime for decades and doesn't have the same ideals. He's capable of being judge, jury and executioner after years of watching the failures of the justice system.

He's closer to TDKR than he is Year One.

He's nothing like TDKR Batman. Batman is old and cynical in that, and he's a Batman who uses rubber bullets on his tank when taking on a whole army of armed mutant gang. Had that been Affleck's Batman they'd all have been on a slab in the morgue.

Who's confused? Batman clearly lost people close to him and blamed Superman for destroying countless lives. Vengence was definitely influencing his crusade against Superman. He even tells Superman he'll bleed for the first time. Clearly he wants blood.

I know he's feeling vengeful, but he claims his reason to take him down is because of the huge potential threat he presents to the world. But the sudden revelation that Superman has a mother somehow neutralizes him as a threat for Batman. Apparently Superman didn't have a mother in MOS when he was leveling the city with Zod :o

It's not more powerful. It makes Bruce Wayne look like a naive child getting slapped by his baby sitter. Bruce Wayne should be nearly done with his training as the best crime fighter who ever existed by the time he's an adult. He hasn't been a naive child since the day his parents died. Nolan butchered Bruce Wayne's origin.

No offense, but you don't know your Batman history. Bruce was 25 years old when he returned to Gotham after his training. Bruce in that scene in Begins was younger than that, a college kid in Princeton.

Your best friend smacking you one for nearly killing someone is proper powerful. Infinitely more credible than the Martha nonsense.

Sure, during an entire trilogy focused on Batman. Like I said, BvS takes place long after those times when Bruce has grown tired and cynical of games.

I know that. But that doesn't make him a better version of Bruce just because he's gotten too old and grumpy for the stuff the Bruce Wayne we all know and love usually does.

We saw a younger Bruce Wayne, not necessarily "the real" Bruce Wayne.

It was the real Bruce Wayne. No stories depict Bruce in the way Affleck did. Not even DKR Batman because he had more respect for human life. He didn't go gunning for Superman for stupid reasons, even after he turned into a Government errand boy and forced all other superheros to retire. Ripped off Green Arrow's arm and all.

I think you're exaggerating Snyder's Batman body count.

He killed when he had no other choice. He didn't snipe everyone with deadly head shots when rescuing Martha.

No exaggeration. The only kill that was in any way justified was the flamethrower dude who was going to roast Martha. The rest were all avoidable and unnecessary.

Alfred is a retired spy from British Intelligence.

Also he's always been supportive of Bruce's decisions. He cares about his wellbeing like a father and might warn him to make decisions that honor his parents legacy but after decades of losing a war on crime, Alfred would most likely tolerate Bruce's tough on crime methods.

I could count on one hand the number of times Alfred's British Intelligence past was relevant to his character. Alfred has not, repeat has not always been supportive of Bruce's decisions. So much so that he has even walked out of Bruce's employ at least twice over the years.

Alfred may love Bruce, but he's not a yes man who would stand by and support things he doesn't believe are right. Alfred's not afraid to dish out the tough love when he has to. He's sure not afraid to walk away from Bruce if he does something he doesn't believe in.
 
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Um, Alfred's a retired spy? When did they say that?
 
Snyder and co described him as such. It was also in
my gay fanfic, I thought we were gonna exchange these already?

Is that in the movie? I don't remember hearing that

Also, having trouble with fanfic. Trying to find more synonyms for [BLACKOUT]"moist"[/BLACKOUT]
 
The biggest thing that went wrong with this movie is that Ryan Gosling isn't Aquaman.

RYAN GOSLING IS

AQUAMAN

COMING 2018

"He's gonna make you wet."
 
I have not seen anyone address the ridiculous notion that Superman actually AGREED that Batman go off and save his mother. Instead of, you know, saying stay away from my mother you psycho and doing it himself.
This stood out like a sore thumb for me. Took me out of the movie even more.

Think about it.
Superman was fine with a violent vigilante who was just about to slay him, go off rescue his own mother, WTF??

There is so much wrong with the logic in that.

Why was confronting Lex more important than rescuing his own mother?
His mother's life was at stake. Superman would of never trusted Batman [at this stage of their relationship lol] to rescue her.
Superman would of been able to do it far more efficiently and then be at ease knowing his mother was safe.
Did Superman even ask Batman when they met up if his Mother was safe?

This movie just falls apart at the slightest scrutiny.

Everything in this movie is set up to make Batman seem as heroic and bad-ass as possible and make Superman look ineffectual and weak. From the very beginning of the movie, you get Bruce Wayne saving a small girl from falling rubble, normally that would be Superman's job but of course, HE'S THE CAUSE OF THE FALLING RUBBLE. Then you have Superman unable to save people from an exploding bomb, Batman beating the living daylights out of Superman in a very one-sided fight, etc. etc.

You couldn't make a movie that's more of a character assassination of Superman than BvS.
 
Everything in this movie is set up to make Batman seem as heroic and bad-ass as possible and make Superman look ineffectual and weak. From the very beginning of the movie, you get Bruce Wayne saving a small girl from falling rubble, normally that would be Superman's job but of course, HE'S THE CAUSE OF THE FALLING RUBBLE. Then you have Superman unable to save people from an exploding bomb, Batman beating the living daylights out of Superman in a very one-sided fight, etc. etc.

You couldn't make a movie that's more of a character assassination of Superman than BvS.
That what it's about. Superman is humanity's whipping boy. We place all our hatred and fears onto him. And by the end of the film, he's dead and people feel hollow. They're left to themselves again, and I guess are wondering where all that hate will now be directed. Be careful for what you wish for.
 
Why the hell aren't people celebrating? People apparently hated him to the point Superman gave up on humanity and said people weren't good anymore. From the world's perspective, they should be overjoyed this alien God who helped the ending of MOS is dead.
 
Not if they realise he actually killed the big bad, saving everyone. Monstrous villains are becoming a regular occurrence now, and like them or not, heroes are needed. Batman realises this as well. He needs to be more trusting, even if it goes against his natural instincts.
 
Why the hell aren't people celebrating? People apparently hated him to the point Superman gave up on humanity and said people weren't good anymore. From the world's perspective, they should be overjoyed this alien God who helped the ending of MOS is dead.

After 18 months of running around the world saving people from every type of disaster known to man, people still hated him, including Batman, who should know better. But all Superman had to do was say "Save Martha" and beat one monster on an isolated island and all is forgiven. Movie logic.
 
snyder would be perfect for the boys lol the comic is dark,features tons of blood,lots of violence,f bombs,hardcore sex,etc.
the-boys.jpg

TNBoys14Cover.jpg


I can see Matthew Vaughn doing that too. With Snyder, he can play with The Authority
 
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