Apocalypse X-Men Apocalypse News and Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 44

[LoganGambit87]

CS: As far as the previous film, X-Men: Apocalypse, there seems to have been a split, in that the people who love the comic books really appreciated it and the people who are fans of the more grounded movies thought it went a little too far in the comic book direction. What lessons did you learn from Apocalypse?

Kinberg: As the writer of it, I thought when we started the movie and when I wrote the movie that we were telling the story of a family splitting apart and coming back together. In the final movie its in there, but it’s a little buried, and the movie on the surface became about a guy who wanted to destroy the world. The guy that wanted to destroy the world is a superhero movie from 25, 30 years ago. Today’s superhero movies that we love the most –the “Dark Knight” movies, “Guardians of the Galaxy,” the first “Iron Man” movie, those are movies about human beings in relatable circumstances that happen to have super powers. I think “Apocalypse” became more about global stakes than human stakes. That’s the lesson I learned from the movie, that human and personal stakes always trump global stakes. It’s something that Bryan did, if you go back to the first “X-Men” movie, what Magneto’s trying to do is something global in scale, but ultimately it’s about saving Rogue. The movie is about Wolverine and Rogue, a guy who doesn’t want to be connected to anybody and a girl who’s lost. They find each other, and in finding each other they find each other with the X-Men. It was a brilliant way of telling that story. I think with “Apocalypse” we got away from that a little bit. Maybe we all got a little enamored in the possibility of seeing the world get destroyed and do some things in terms of scale and scope that we haven’t done in the X-Men movies. Scale and scope don’t matter. Audiences today know it’s fake, they’ve seen the world blow up a million times in video games and movies.

http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/ne...directing-x-men-supernova#8jwfWQswp6ddqB60.99

i do like that he is owning up to his mistakes and i agree a big turn off to XMA especially in the trailers was it felt generic with i want to destroy the world narrative which has been done way too many times and not just in super hero films

 

[psylockolussus]

He's full of excuses. He's just not a good writer. And he's still getting another shot by writing another X-Men mess of a script.

 

[User Name]

He's full of excuses. He's just not a good writer

He single handily made Vin Diesel drop out of xXx 2 because of a ****** script he wrote Vin Diesel of all people if that says nothing about his writing skills nothing will

 

[I Am The Knight]

i do like that he is owning up to his mistakes and i agree a big turn off to XMA especially in the trailers was it felt generic with i want to destroy the world narrative which has been done way too many times and not just in super hero films

Apoc's cheesy PR look and bad action didn't help.

 

[henzINNIT]

As good as it is to hear someone reflecting on past mistakes, it is ultimately meaningless. It doesn't fix a broken film, and certainly doesn't give me hope for the future. Scope was Kinberg's big talking point going in to Apocalypse. That was the hook he tried to sell the film on, and now that was a mistake? No. Apocalypse is pretty much all you can do with Apocaylpse as the villain. The scale of the film wasn't the problem, many of the Marvel films he refers to manage to draw a satisfying conclusion to all the explosions. It failed in script and execution.

 

[Ivan Drago]

Kinberg did the same thing with X3 and Fan4stic. Apology after apology.

 

[def28]

As good as it is to hear someone reflecting on past mistakes, it is ultimately meaningless. It doesn't fix a broken film, and certainly doesn't give me hope for the future. Scope was Kinberg's big talking point going in to Apocalypse. That was the hook he tried to sell the film on, and now that was a mistake? No. Apocalypse is pretty much all you can do with Apocaylpse as the villain. The scale of the film wasn't the problem, many of the Marvel films he refers to manage to draw a satisfying conclusion to all the explosions. It failed in script and execution.

Kinberg did the same thing with X3 and Fan4stic. Apology after apology.

Bingo

 

[X-Maniac]

Kinberg is right in some ways, some of the destruction scenes were a turn-off - not just because the VFX were ropey in places, but it was too much and came at the expense of characterisation to make us care for the PEOPLE in the movie.

A friend and i watched the movie this past weekend. It was the first time he had seen it.

His criticisms were:
- unengaging
- lots of characters he didn't know anything about, who were just 'there'
- substandard make-up
- J-Law acting was very bland and flat, especially obvious when she's in same scenes as McAvoy
- global destruction was just boring
- Quicksilver mansion rescue scene was fun but silly
- thought it was weird how Moira actually responsible for waking Apocalypse and why the cult worshipping him hadn't figured out that the sun was the key to waking him.

I remember he particularly liked Storm's accent, thought it was generally enjoyable, but thought that with this and Logan, we have seen the last of the X-Men films. He was surprised when i mentioned X-Men: Supernova.

 

[Mutant 77]

Kinberg is right in some ways, some of the destruction scenes were a turn-off - not just because the VFX were ropey in places

I think the VFX are perfect.

 

[Weather Witch]

I think the VFX are perfect.

In X-Men: Apocalypse? You are of course entitled to your opinion. I am someone who has been defending this movie, and who enjoyed this movie quite a bit, but I can't deny that at times it looks unfinished.

 

[wampa1]

CS: As far as the previous film, X-Men: Apocalypse, there seems to have been a split, in that the people who love the comic books really appreciated it and the people who are fans of the more grounded movies thought it went a little too far in the comic book direction.

Bollocks.

 

[marvelrobbins]

it really isn't.in the pro-apocalypse camp some who liked it thought it was most comic booky of X-Men films.there are others who felt film suffered since singer tried moving outside of his usual style.

 

[Mutant 77]

in the pro-apocalypse camp some who liked it thought it was most comic booky of X-Men films.

Finally... and it works just nicely.

 

[Legion]

Kinberg is right in some ways, some of the destruction scenes were a turn-off - not just because the VFX were ropey in places, but it was too much and came at the expense of characterisation to make us care for the PEOPLE in the movie.

A friend and i watched the movie this past weekend. It was the first time he had seen it.

His criticisms were:
- unengaging
- lots of characters he didn't know anything about, who were just 'there'
- substandard make-up
- J-Law acting was very bland and flat, especially obvious when she's in same scenes as McAvoy
- global destruction was just boring
- Quicksilver mansion rescue scene was fun but silly
- thought it was weird how Moira actually responsible for waking Apocalypse and why the cult worshipping him hadn't figured out that the sun was the key to waking him.

I remember he particularly liked Storm's accent, thought it was generally enjoyable, but thought that with this and Logan, we have seen the last of the X-Men films. He was surprised when i mentioned X-Men: Supernova.

What I read from Kinberg is that XMA was not well received because they chose to go with a "destroy the world" plot. That it's not a good fit for the X-Men and the audience couldn't accept the X-Men in this type of story. This simply isn't true. Other superhero films and sci-fi/action films have done incredibly well this type of plot. This type of story would also be pretty new to the X-Men franchise.

The problem is with the execution. There was no sense of urgency. There needed to be some type of impending doom approaching and if the heroes didn't act there would be immense destruction. The characters go off to rescue Xavier but they themselves don't seem to aware of how much destruction is occurring. They are not really aware of Apocalypse himself and how powerful he is. It's all just so passive. Buildings and other structures are just unravelling while Mystique and Quicksilver are having a chat with Magneto. This scene to me is also very much unlike how the X-Men in the comics would react in this type of situation. They try to talk sense and when that doesn't work it's time for action. Here it's seemed like they were trying to recreate a scene from DoFP and when it doesn't work they just move their focus away from Magneto.

When it was all over no one really acknowledges the destruction that was done or the loss of life. There's no "What if we had failed?" moment. How about if Xavier and Jean talked about that vision again. What if Jean questioned if her vision of the end of the world was still an event yet to come? (Setting up for Dark Phoenix)

Of course XMA still has many other issues but I simply don't believe the type of story they chose to tell was the problem.

 

[psylockolussus]

Finally... and it works just nicely.

Just like how Batman & Robin is more comic booky than most Batman films.

 

[Mutant 77]

Just like how Batman & Robin is more comic booky than most Batman films.

Madness. Apocalypse is one hell of a movie. MCU movies are very comic bookish, but people are fine with them.

If you're comparing Apocalypse to Batman & Robin, you're truly out of your mind. 100%.

 

[Mutant 77]

The problem is with the execution. There was no sense of urgency. There needed to be some type of impending doom approaching and if the heroes didn't act there would be immense destruction. The characters go off to rescue Xavier but they themselves don't seem to aware of how much destruction is occurring. They are not really aware of Apocalypse himself and how powerful he is. It's all just so passive. Buildings and other structures are just unravelling while Mystique and Quicksilver are having a chat with Magneto. This scene to me is also very much unlike how the X-Men in the comics would react in this type of situation. They try to talk sense and when that doesn't work it's time for action. Here it's seemed like they were trying to recreate a scene from DoFP and when it doesn't work they just move their focus away from Magneto.

LOL what about Xavier's message to the whole world?
Or Cairo being destroyed?
Or Magneto starting to destroy the world itself?

I think you're wrong on many levels.

 

[psylockolussus]

Madness. Apocalypse is one hell of a movie. MCU movies are very comic bookish, but people are fine with them.

If you're comparing Apocalypse to Batman & Robin, you're truly out of your mind. 100%.

No, I meant Being comic booky doesn't make a film great if the script and characters are handled poorly.

 

[Legion]

LOL what about Xavier's message to the whole world?
Or Cairo being destroyed?
Or Magneto starting to destroy the world itself?

I think you're wrong on many levels.

"LOL" What about Xavier's message to the world? Cairo was already destroyed by the time the X-Men arrived and I already explained what was wrong with Magneto's global destruction and the X-Men's response to it.

 

[The Endless]

The issue wasn't how "comic booky" it was. The issue was simply... it was boring. Unengaging. Apocalypse is an overrated villain really. But in the film he was a lame duck. His whole plot was just simplistic and uninteresting.

Instead of just destroying the world and rebuilding from its ashes... why not something more interesting? Why not plunge the Earth into a new dark age and letting all the beings, human and mutant and animal, fight it out to see who deserves to survive? Something like that fits Apocalypse's MO and it's a lot more interesting that CGI disaster porn.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Madness. Apocalypse is one hell of a movie. MCU movies are very comic bookish, but people are fine with them.

If you're comparing Apocalypse to Batman & Robin, you're truly out of your mind. 100%.

he's comparing B & R to Apocalypse.reallyt:

B & R is only true to 1960's tv show.Apocalypse meanwhile pulls elements from 616 X-men,ultimate X-Men,and both 1990's animated show and X-Men evolution
as well.the storyline with apocalypse is losly based on fall of the mutants with elements from the twelve thrown in

at same time days of future is loosly based on version of DOFP in comics with elements from wolverine and the X_men animated show and ultimate X-Men.X2 was cross between return to weapon x from ultimate X-men and the god loves man kill graphic novel.even the most hated X film origins is based on elements from origin mininseries,wolverine vol 1 #10,and weapon storyline.

Like civil war which wa sonly very loosly based on comic storyline the films work with what has been established.and even apocalypse setup cyclops and jean to do more in next film where we defently won't have wolverine and possibly not even mystique and magneto.

 

[marvelrobbins]

LOL what about Xavier's message to the whole world?
Or Cairo being destroyed?
Or Magneto starting to destroy the world itself?

I think you're wrong on many levels.

your very right.

 

[marvelrobbins]

The issue wasn't how "comic booky" it was. The issue was simply... it was boring. Unengaging. Apocalypse is an overrated villain really. But in the film he was a lame duck. His whole plot was just simplistic and uninteresting.

Instead of just destroying the world and rebuilding from its ashes... why not something more interesting? Why not plunge the Earth into a new dark age and letting all the beings, human and mutant and animal, fight it out to see who deserves to survive? Something like that fits Apocalypse's MO and it's a lot more interesting that CGI disaster porn.

your free to hate apocalypse but truth was it did fairly accurate job with apocalypse.Apocalypse is not a very deep villain.he is a burn the world down so the strongest led by him can rule.even him using bodies and wanting to put his consenious in xavier wasn't invention of filmmakers.

 

[Mutant 77]

Mystique and Quicksilver couldn't do ANYTHING to stop Magneto. No action.
Mystique talked to him. And Quicksilver was there. Magneto just recognized his son. He just started to think of him as a "son". It was VERY subtle, and it was very poetic and NOT unpredictable at all.
That caused Magneto to change.
It was perfect.

 

[Frankeh]

LOL what about Xavier's message to the whole world?
Or Cairo being destroyed?
Or Magneto starting to destroy the world itself?

I think you're wrong on many levels.

That was close to the third act already

Everything before that lacked any sense of threat. Not to mention in the pre title sequence in Egypt we don't even get to see a display of his powers to know how powerful he is.

Having him need and kidnap Xavier was a waste of time imo.