Xavier & Jean: Agree or Disagree?

[ico]

She was nuts and out of control as a child.

She was nuts and out of control as an adult.

She was nuts and out of control.

I completely disagree with this statement. How on earth can you gather that Jean as a child was nuts?

And the only reason she was nuts as an adult was because of Xaviers interferrence.

 

[Pizzaboy1138]

He should have helped her to learn to control her powers over the years.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

what do you people want?
if he had helped her contolling her powers, we wouldnt have the Phoenix, right? if Jean could control her powers in all their amount, no dark side, no nuts, no crazyness, no nothing, just a superpowerful soap-opera girl.
man...
i dont know, but i absolutely LOVED this aspect of the story...

 

[ThE_PhOeNiX]

I think he did it because he was jelous. I mean she was like 9, he was mad a 9 year old girl was more powerfull than him. If he didnt do anything she would have been fine. I mean did you see how much in control she was when we saw her as a girl. What would have been the difference if it was when she is an adult. Its all his fault.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I completely disagree with this statement. How on earth can you gather that Jean as a child was nuts?

And the only reason she was nuts as an adult was because of Xaviers interferrence.

Look at her face when Xavier tells her "Will you let it (your power) control you?" She has a smarting, weird expression that says something is truly wrong...like she's almost confused. For Xavier to make that statement means he sensed something in her mind that wasn't quite right. Apparently, Jean's power was too much for her to control--that's why he kept referring to "It" controlling her.

And many of us can relate to this: Some people have crack, sex, drug, gambling addictions that "control" them--vices too powerful to overcome...yet it's a part of the person. Jean probably would never have gotten mastery of hers--it was too much...and that's why her father referred to it as an illness.

I'm not saying that his treatments did not handicap her adult ability to handle her powers--I agree with you--but it's clear that the girl was somewhat unstable from jump.

I think he did it because he was jelous. I mean she was like 9, he was mad a 9 year old girl was more powerfull than him. If he didnt do anything she would have been fine. I mean did you see how much in control she was when we saw her as a girl. What would have been the difference if it was when she is an adult. Its all his fault.

Jealous over what? Xavier is a telepath, not telekinetic. The only area that she outclassed him was with her teke.

Notice how long it took for her to "kill" him: Everyone else was demolecularized to ashes in seconds. But with Xavier, she failed in shutting him down mentally. That's why she had to actually stand up, and attack him with with teke--it was the only way she could win. And even then, the man held his own against her powers--freezing time the way he did at the Museum to get a final plea to her--before she destroyed him. And notice, that after he told her "Don't let it control you", she intensified her destruction on his body.

And for all that...she still didn't kill him. He simply pulled a "Spock" and punched out.

Now that's power.

 

[Goddessreicho]

Do I blame Xavier for Jean's disaster. Nope! It was her arragance that was the cataylist in the first place.

When she found out about the psi-blocks her first responce was, "How could you do that to ME?" Instead of, "I have the potential to kill everyone, maybe I do need help."

I mean common, look at what she does without the blocks. Xavier was right, mebbe not telling her about them was a bad move, but he was right about the consequenses. So bottom line, the psi-blocks should have been there.

 

[ico]

Look at her face when Xavier tells her "Will you let it (your power) control you?" She has a smarting, weird expression that says something is truly wrong...like she's almost confused. For Xavier to make that statement means he sensed something in her mind that wasn't quite right. Apparently, Jean's power was too much for her to control--that's why he kept referring to "It" controlling her.

And many of us can relate to this: Some people have crack, sex, drug, gambling addictions that "control" them--vices too powerful to overcome...yet it's a part of the person. Jean probably would never have gotten mastery of hers--it was too much...and that's why her father referred to it as an illness.

I'm not saying that his treatments did not handicap her adult ability to handle her powers--I agree with you--but it's clear that the girl was somewhat unstable from jump.

You do have a point there, I can understand what you mean. The comparison to regular things which can control a person swung me

Jealous over what? Xavier is a telepath, not telekinetic. The only area that she outclassed him was with her teke.

Notice how long it took for her to "kill" him: Everyone else was demolecularized to ashes in seconds. But with Xavier, she failed in shutting him down mentally. That's why she had to actually stand up, and attack him with with teke--it was the only way she could win. And even then, the man held his own against her powers--freezing time the way he did at the Museum to get a final plea to her--before she destroyed him. And notice, that after he told her "Don't let it control you", she intensified her destruction on his body.
And for all that...she still didn't kill him. He simply pulled a "Spock" and punched out.
Now that's power.

This though, I am not entirely on your side with.

I got the impression that the pair were battling eachother with telepathy. Xavier was forcing Phoenix into the depths of Jeans psyche whereas Phoenix was trying to fight Xavier out of her head. It's quite clear that there is definately something major going on in their minds, judging by the tense looks on their faces during that scene, while all the fighting is going on in the other rooms.
But it seems as thoguh Phoenix finally overcame Xavier. When she stands, it was almost symbolism that she has finally beaten him back and is now standing, free of being caged. Now that Xavier is out of her head, he cannot restrain her no longer, so now she uses her telekinesis and lifts him out of his chair. You can tell by the look on his face that he was beaten a-back and didn't expect her to overcome him. His facial expression as he begins to rise is basically "Oh... *****!!"

As for time slowing down, and the prolonged amount of time that it took for Phoenix to finish him off, I don't know. I really didn't think it was the Professor who slowed down time, seeing as he isn't telekinetic, how could he do it? When he slowed it down in X2, he simply "froze" their minds, whereas in X3, it was the surroundings that slowed down, Phoenix was still moving around, as seen by her hair still flowing wildly, whilst the glass, etc, moves incredibly slow.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Do I blame Xavier for Jean's disaster. Nope! It was her arragance that was the cataylist in the first place.

When she found out about the psi-blocks her first responce was, "How could you do that to ME?" Instead of, "I have the potential to kill everyone, maybe I do need help."

I mean common, look at what she does without the blocks. Xavier was right, mebbe not telling her about them was a bad move, but he was right about the consequenses. So bottom line, the psi-blocks should have been there.

Agreed.

And what people are failing to understand is that she did willfully join Magneto's Brotherhood. She vaporized dozens of U.S. soldiers out of anger. She brutally killed the professor and--dare I say it--enjoyed it. In fact, her entire motif in the film was seemingly fueled in absolute hatred.

There wasn't one ounce of regret, remorse or compassion in her once she left that mansion. She "don't want to fix it!" and basically she remained on that plane until her death. There wasn't even a glimpse of the Jean we fell in love with from the first two films...and that's why I say she was barely schizophrenic...just amnesiatic.

For all we know, this could have been the same kind of heartless woman Jean would've grown into without the psi-blocks.

 

[ico]

And what people are failing to understand is that she did willfully join Magneto's Brotherhood. She vaporized dozens of U.S. soldiers out of anger. She brutally killed the professor and--dare I say it--enjoyed it. In fact, her entire motif in the film was seemingly fueled in absolute hatred.

There wasn't one ounce of regret, remorse or compassion in her once she left that mansion. She "don't want to fix it!" and basically she remained on that plane until her death. There wasn't even a glimpse of the Jean we fell in love with from the first two films...and that's why I say she was barely schizophrenic...just amnesiatic.

For all we know, this could have been the same kind of heartless woman Jean would've grown into without the psi-blocks.

But when she vaporized the soldiers, and Professor X, it wasn't Jean, it was Phoenix who in all terms of the word, was a seperate entity to Jean. The body of Jean was housing the equivalent of two people, and it was Phoenix who was acting out all of the anger and rage, as Professor X even said, that is what the Phoenix revels in.

When Professor X he was trying to opress the Phoenix, and she responded really quite violently, and over-powered the "Jean" side. Same with the army men. Jean seemed quite subdued, and almost willing to go with Wolverine, but as soon as she was attacked, Phoenix clawed its way out and used that "shock" and "anger" that the normal Jean may have felt by being shot at, and used it to fuel itself, taking full control of the "shell" for lack of a better term.

I do believe that we saw Jean, quite a lot actually. It's my belief that had Jean not been there, and it was 100% Phoenix, she woulda been one helluva chaos-spree, destroying everything and anything she desires, having anyone she desires. I think Jean was always there, holding Phoenix back, for the most part. And Jean definately surfaced during the infirmary scene with the whole "... where am I??"

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

she was even herself when she woke up... she even reminded Logan when/where they first met ... and then the moment she sensed Logan staring down at her...uh boobies... er cleavage, her other personality took over and everything went down hill from there until ... yeah...

 

[ico]

^True, but I am still uneasy about believing that it was totally Jean. It's just the fact that when she obviously becomes Jean, the first thing she says is "Where am i??" Totally confused and upset, whereas when she first woke up she was calm, content, and very confident with herself. This leads me to believe that it was Phoenix waking at first, not Jean.

 

[ThE_PhOeNiX]

she was even herself when she woke up... she even reminded Logan when/where they first met ... and then the moment she sensed Logan staring down at her...uh boobies... er cleavage, her other personality took over and everything went down hill from there until ... yeah...

If you pay close attention she turns into the phoenix when she takes thos elittle things she has on her off that monitor her life.

 

[undomiel]

I'd have to know more about it. We received little concrete information in the film, so we don't even really know what the risks were, or the odds of Jean being able to control herself. But it's a great question.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

^True, but I am still uneasy about believing that it was totally Jean. It's just the fact that when she obviously becomes Jean, the first thing she says is "Where am i??" Totally confused and upset, whereas when she first woke up she was calm, content, and very confident with herself. This leads me to believe that it was Phoenix waking at first, not Jean.

I say it was half and half....

If you pay close attention she turns into the phoenix when she takes thos elittle things she has on her off that monitor her life.

Sorry...I was probably too busy staring at Famke's...bazzares...through her black top -puts his hands behind his back- while she was taking those things off her...self. -swallows- anyway... I still think it was Jean and when she sat up, thats when her phoenix personality took over...

 

[Coreo]

Jean nor Xavier slowed down time during that scene. It was just a freeze-frame camera trick, like in the Matrix movies. I liked how she extended her arms out right before he exploded though. At least we know that Brett intended to have the firebird effect...

 

[Coreo]

If you pay close attention she turns into the phoenix when she takes thos elittle things she has on her off that monitor her life.

I've seen the movie 6 times and I've missed it! Does her eyes flash or something?

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

no...but theres a close up shot of her...cleavage which is nice and Jean/Famke blushes and becomes horny...

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

no...but theres a close up shot of her...cleavage which is nice and Jean/Famke blushes and becomes horny...

*sigh*

Are you sure Jean is the one that became horny??? Cuz judging by your posts lately....

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Well you watch the whole scene...of her dry humping logan, then yeah. she's horny...plus I think what Coreo was talking about was the part when she goes phoenix for a second during her humping session...if you remember...I noticed a tint of red/orange in her eyes before they turned black for a second and then turned back to normal.

Stop making fun of me...geez. Im just saying like it is. lol I can't help it, the woman is crazy...and it takes a lot to get me all wired up... lol. Im not always horny... You should see my Cyclops manip.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I was joking with you DOD...we all know how much you lust for Ms. Famke...and it's kinda amusing to read. And I mean that in a good way. LOL

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

I have great respect for Famke and her privacy. I saw I spy, actually I own it now... but I was amazed by her beauty-ness especially in the scene with Owen Wilson... when she's on the cot and she's wearing nothing but a pair nice panties and a top. Thats really all I can take. I don't care and I don't go to movies just to see her bazzares...or whatever. I'm not like that kinda guy and Im glad Famke isn't one of those type of ladies who just stands in front of the camera and shows off her ...bazzares. Atleast she has that kind of decency when she doesn't do that sort of thing which doesn't attract too much attention... thats what i like about her. Her bare legs is enough to make me smile lol. She's classy in her own way.


Its what she does with her roles that attacts me and how she makes her character(s) like Jean Grey (for example) believable. She's got good taste in choosing her roles, I think and thats what I like about her. I like how she chooses various kinds of roles- not the same ones over and over (like Tom Cruise for example lol). Again, she's the kind of woman I look up to as a role model.

and I know your joking but come on...sometimes i feel ashamed or embarassed for saying this and that. I just see Famke as a person- a human being just like us...not just a celebrity. and I respect that she prefers to live a low life and all that. lol

anyway. -shuts up-

 

[Goddessreicho]

DOD you have the funniest one track mind ever.

*turns slightly to the right to get to the point*

Does anyone know anything about mental diseases? I have some personal experiences. Not from myself, but immediate and extended family members suffer from things like manic depression aka bi-polar-ism, dementia, skitzo-ness. (I'm not the best speller, and I'm to lazy to get a dictionary.)

First and foremost people who suffer from these diseases NEED HELP. Because the ailment messes with your mind, these people may not know or UNDERSTAND that they are in no way able to get throught this without the aid of others, or medicines.

The argument for Jean is that when she became a mass-murder she ,"wasn't herself." Yet, it WAS! This is my point. Even though Jean wasn't the dominant personality, it was still her body that did those things. Was she in control, NO! She needed help to be in control, one way or the other. Xavier did what he had to do to protect JEAN, and everyone around her. It was a tough choice, but as a leader, he did what he had to do.

 

[ico]

First and foremost people who suffer from these diseases NEED HELP. Because the ailment messes with your mind, these people may not know or UNDERSTAND that they are in no way able to get throught this without the aid of others, or medicines.

The argument for Jean is that when she became a mass-murder she ,"wasn't herself." Yet, it WAS! This is my point. Even though Jean wasn't the dominant personality, it was still her body that did those things. Was she in control, NO! She needed help to be in control, one way or the other. Xavier did what he had to do to protect JEAN, and everyone around her. It was a tough choice, but as a leader, he did what he had to do.

I have experience as I actually am bi-polar.

What you said about it being her who did it really kinda grated. The whole thing with schizophrenia is that there is an entire different personality in their head. Think of it as like 2 people sharing one body. You can't blame one of the personalities (Jean) for something that the other did (Phoenix). Trying to say you can simply because it was "Jean's Body' that did it is well.. a crap excuse. Because it wasn't her. Would you still blame Jean if somebody possessed her and then killed people? Because again, it would'n't havebeen her fault.

 

[Goddessreicho]

My mother is bi-polar, as are most of her brothers and sisters. My brother and two of my uncles are skitzy.

I've seen first hand what it can do.

Its really a shame too. My brother had a genius level IQ, and it did him no good because he refused to take his medicine on a regular basis. We get a court order to force him (for his own good), and well...lets me just say it didn't end well. (We knew that it wasn't him who was refusing the medicine, but it was the other him. Bottom line was that it was it was still him, so to speak.) What were we soposed to do? Let him completly get lost in his own malfunctioning mind. Of course he hated us for it. Never really forgave us. Tough love is a bit**.

 

[Avalanche]

How do you feel about Xavier putting the mental blocks in Jean's mind? I'm totally against it. Jean could have learned to control it over the years. It would have been different if he told her what he did. He didn't give her a choice! No wonder Phoenix was so angry! Everything Phoenix did in the movie was because of him!

Even as a child Jean was already 'off'. Already consumed by her vast power. She may have learned to control her power, but I'm willing to bet she wouldn't be able to control her emotions.

Xavier did the right thing.