Sequels Sam Raimi talks Spider-Man 4

[Chris Wallace]

Dude, you gotta remember - the symbiote amplifies the characteristics of it's host. Peter Parker is not dark - he's a dork. It also feeds off aggression. Therefore, you get an amplified dork who's prone to violence.

An argument I've been pushing for over a year now.
And for God's sake, we're talking about a story in which a man adds a space monster to his wardrobe!

 

[pjspider1C]

^ I'm right there with ya, buddy!

 

[Chris Wallace]

I'm tired of defending this whole trilogy. I know that comic fans are by nature fastidious & resistant to change, but the bashing has gotten ridiculous.
Yes, he danced. In a club. With a band. For about two minutes. People do that. It wasn't some elaborate routine choreographed by Paula Abdul. It fit the scenario & there was nothing wrong with it or any other aspect of his bevavior. He was basically Steve Urkel & the suit told him he was Stefan. so he behaved accordingly. Fans act like he was supposed to turn into the Punisher or somebody.

 

[Hectorminator]

I'm tired of defending this whole trilogy. I know that comic fans are by nature fastidious & resistant to change, but the bashing has gotten ridiculous.
Yes, he danced. In a club. With a band. For about two minutes. People do that. It wasn't some elaborate routine choreographed by Paula Abdul. It fit the scenario & there was nothing wrong with it or any other aspect of his bevavior. He was basically Steve Urkel & the suit told him he was Stefan. so he behaved accordingly. Fans act like he was supposed to turn into the Punisher or somebody.

This is the most brilliant, perfect analogy of Spider-Man 3 I've ever read. Well played.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I've been watching FM a lot.

 

[smoothbody]

I'm tired of defending this whole trilogy. I know that comic fans are by nature fastidious & resistant to change, but the bashing has gotten ridiculous.
Yes, he danced. In a club. With a band. For about two minutes. People do that. It wasn't some elaborate routine choreographed by Paula Abdul. It fit the scenario & there was nothing wrong with it or any other aspect of his bevavior. He was basically Steve Urkel & the suit told him he was Stefan. so he behaved accordingly. Fans act like he was supposed to turn into the Punisher or somebody.

oh ok,so we have to except the fact that we got screwed out of a great story,for some kiddie bs!! well sorry i'm not having that!!!

 

[Symbiote666]

Actually, you are having that, because it's all there is.

If you really can't stand it, go and find ADIGITALMAN's 'The Darkness Within' fan edit of the movie.

I know SHH doesn't allow fan edit discussion/promotion, so I'm not going to say anything else.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I'm tired of defending this whole trilogy. I know that comic fans are by nature fastidious & resistant to change, but the bashing has gotten ridiculous.
Yes, he danced. In a club. With a band. For about two minutes. People do that. It wasn't some elaborate routine choreographed by Paula Abdul. It fit the scenario & there was nothing wrong with it or any other aspect of his bevavior. He was basically Steve Urkel & the suit told him he was Stefan. so he behaved accordingly. Fans act like he was supposed to turn into the Punisher or somebody.

Peter doesn't become Batman or Punisher with the suit. Some of the suggestions of the last 2 years I have read for what Peter should have done while dark were outrageous to me (like the guy who said Peter should of started laughing when he hit MJ )

oh ok,so we have to except the fact that we got screwed out of a great story,for some kiddie bs!! well sorry i'm not having that!!!

Love how you never responded to my last post

 

[smoothbody]

This franchise is far from screwed. SM1 and SM2 were well done, and they just need to go back to what was working. SM3 was crammed cause they were unsure people were coming back, thus they had to wrap it up, and Arad got greedy with adding Venom to the mix. I agree Sony will inevitably dictate what happens to Dunst, but I do think she has more pull in this series than Holmes in BB or Howard in IM (especially cause Raimi wants her back).

We agree on Venom at least



No, because it might be cheaper and more cost effective

They decided to go the expensive route and bring EVERYONE back. Is that the actions of people that were not satisfied with the last movie? If they were truly upset, Raimi and co would be gone and a new cast and crew would be in, so epic fail on your part. They are so confident, they may shoot them back-to-back even. This is showing FAITH in the creative team and cast, not displeasure. Again, it has nothing to do with quality. Raimi and co have made them $$$, and obviously, they were happy with the money they got. Cause they rehired them.

As for Venom, Venom is a lame villain. You are obviously a Venom fan and won't agree with me here. But, he is a glorified stalker whom Peter is "scared" of, only reason he is at all "cool." He's really done nothing of significance to Peter ever, but be a stalker. At least the GG was an effective stalker in his day. Venom is just a nuisance. An entire movie of Venom randomly popping up is lame and stupid. He works best as a 3rd act villain. The symbiote story I feel can easily carry one whole movie, but a back-to-back movie will end like POTC: DMC and POTC: AWE, good first part (DMC) and uber lame second part (AWE). Also, even give Venom two movies. Raimi would have still made him a Peter doppleganger with Topher Grace in all likely hood, so does it matter he lasted a whole 15 minutes? I don't.

spider-fan, come on bro,

you know damn well you can hype venom the character up as many volume's as you can!! you don't have to follow the exact comic story. they could of made him bad ass as they wanted or what real fans expected.venom is not a 3rd act,are you kidding me?we did not need sandman in that movie at all,imo!!venom can carry being the only villian in a movie with spidey!! my opinion,s-m3 should of been about peter dealing with the symbiote & taking on lizard.in part 4 venom,then part 5 carnage,simple!!

 

[Spider-Fan]

spider-fan, come on bro,

you know damn well you can hype venom the character up as many volume's as you can!! you don't have to follow the exact comic story. they could of made him bad ass as they wanted or what real fans expected.venom is not a 3rd act,are you kidding me?we did not need sandman in that movie at all,imo!!venom can carry being the only villian in a movie with spidey!! my opinion,s-m3 should of been about peter dealing with the symbiote & taking on lizard.in part 4 venom,then part 5 carnage,simple!!

Venom is a shallow character. I mean, his entire goal is to kill Spider-Man. I prefer my villains to have grander plans (except the Lizard, whom like the Hulk is a force of nature to me and has a good personal drama in his story, and even there I think Lizard works better with another villain in the movie too). Not to mention his reason for hating Spider-Man is VERY shallow and stupid. So, we would essentially have a superhero movie aout a stalker. It would get old quick. Venom works as a secondary or 3rd act villain, but main or only, Venom is far too shallow. You need someone with grander plans as a main villain as the main. Otherwise, the stakes are pretty low.

As for Sandman in SM3, he got underused. We can all agree on this. However, I do feel they needed him in the movie (way it was formatted), but they just needed more of him (like a scene or two of character development...nothing outlandish).

Oh, and Carnage flat out sucks. Hope they never use him in the Spidey movies. He makes Venom look like the best villain ever.

 

[Nathan]

You need someone with grander plans as a main villain as the main. Otherwise, the stakes are pretty low.

I don't know, I think having a girlfriend's life on the line, or anyone's life, qualifies as high stakes. You don't always need someone who wants to conquer the world or wants to blow the city up.

They could've made it like some psycho thriller if they used Venom right. Not knowing whether you are watched or not, when you'll get attacked, which one of your loved ones is going to get it first.

Venom could've been easily one of his worst nightmares in the Movie. Having the same powers, immune to the Spider-sense, knowing every of Parker's little secrets.

 

[FaT_tONle]

Venom was used great in that three part TAS series... he could have easily been the main villain for an entire film. Not as Venom... but just Brock as himself. Of course Peter would have been engulfed by the symbiote as well so Venom wouldn't need to show up until the second half. There was just no room for Venom in SM3.

 

[Nathan]

Perfect would've been if they developed Brock in SM1-3 and at the end of three he should've gotten the Symbiote. Then as a main villain in 4, maybe even coupled with the Lizard.

Hmm... a Venom Vs. Lizard fight would be all kinds of greatness. The Lizard crouching over Spidey, ready to bite his head off, when Venom suddenly grabs him by his tail, slamming him into a wall and shouting "He's ours!" Then monster smack down.

 

[American_Hobo]

Perfect would've been if they developed Brock in SM1-3 and at the end of three he should've gotten the Symbiote. Then as a main villain in 4, maybe even couple with the Lizard.

Hmm... a Venom Vs. Lizard fight would be all kinds of greatness. The Lizard crouching over Spidey, ready to bite his head off, when Venom suddenly grabs him by his tail, slamming him into a wall and shouting "He's ours!" Then monster smack down.

They definitely should've saved Venom for Spiderman 4.

Avi Arad really shoudl've let Raimi handle the movie. (Yes, should've went for Vulture instead).
Nice job, Avi Arad

 

[Nathan]

Avi Arad really shoudl've let Raimi handle the movie. (Yes, should've went for Vulture instead).

Not really, if he would've used Vulture in Venom's place, the movie would still been have too crowded. IMO Sandman and Harry would've been enough.

 

[American_Hobo]

Not really, if he would've used Vulture in Venom's place, the movie would still been have too crowded. IMO Sandman and Harry would've been enough.

Your right, but if they used Vulture instead at least people wouldn't have complained too much about Vulture not getting enough screen time.
But yeah, I think only Harry and Sandman would've been better.

 

[smoothbody]

Venom was used great in that three part TAS series... he could have easily been the main villain for an entire film. Not as Venom... but just Brock as himself. Of course Peter would have been engulfed by the symbiote as well so Venom wouldn't need to show up until the second half. There was just no room for Venom in SM3.

exactly,it's about how you write the story!! in that cartoon eddie brock was very well established before he got the symbiote!!

spider-fan,did you say carnage would be useless? wow,are you a spider-man fan,did you not read maximum carnage?! i have a question for you,how is it that cartoon from 1995 got venom right & a hundred million dollar movie could not?i got it,the cartoon really cared about it's characters,the movie exec's don't!!!!!!

 

[the dmg]

oh ok,so we have to except the fact that we got screwed out of a great story,for some kiddie bs!! well sorry i'm not having that!!!

Some kiddy bs? Do you know how hurt MJ would be in real life if Parker were to dance seductively right in front of his her with another woman. A women who he shared the same style kiss with that was special to MJ. That's like twisting the knife. The symbiote made him use Gwen to get back at MJ, that which was the best way to show that the symbiote was in control and changed the person that Parker is.

you know damn well you can hype venom the character up as many volume's as you can!! you don't have to follow the exact comic story. they could of made him bad ass as they wanted or what real fans expected.

Raimi doesn't like Venom, and likes the classic villains. He didn't want Venom, but Arad has to put his foot down on it. It changed everything.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I'm tired of defending this whole trilogy. I know that comic fans are by nature fastidious & resistant to change, but the bashing has gotten ridiculous.
Yes, he danced. In a club. With a band. For about two minutes. People do that. It wasn't some elaborate routine choreographed by Paula Abdul. It fit the scenario & there was nothing wrong with it or any other aspect of his bevavior. He was basically Steve Urkel & the suit told him he was Stefan. so he behaved accordingly. Fans act like he was supposed to turn into the Punisher or somebody.

Thank you! Its amazing how much whining people have done over that quick little scene. Its no more corny than the Rain Drops scenes in Spidey 2.

They definitely should've saved Venom for Spiderman 4.

Avi Arad really shoudl've let Raimi handle the movie. (Yes, should've went for Vulture instead).
Nice job, Avi Arad

1. Part three was too crowded, period. Sandman and New Goblin were plenty. No Vulture. No Venom.
2. If Arad had forced Raimi to do a fourth movie with Venom as the only villian, or in a larger role, I think Sam would have turned it down. I'm thinking he only agreed to use Venom becuase he was getting to use Sandman, his favorite villain.

 

[Symbiote666]

I don't understand why people are still complaining about this. What's done is done, they pushed and pushed to get Venom into this movie, so saying Raimi should have handled it better is pointless. There is no way, with the uncertainty of sequels to SM3, that they would have let it end on a cliff hanger like Brock getting the symbiote.

They should have, but they wouldn't, and even if they did, fans would still complain that they wanted to see Venom, THEN when they finally got Venom, they would complan about the way he looks, or his voice, and the tiny flaws with the design would be blown way out of proportion since it was entire movie with him as the main villian. Wouldn't that be fun, "OMG, they totally ruined venom by not making him massiv lyk he was in the comiks, dis movie is epic fail". Yeh, I'm sure character development would be at the top of the list then.

Yes, they should have saved the story of Eddie Brock/Venom for another time, like now, when they could make back to back movies, but both of them were going into SM3 one way or another, and personally, I would rather have it play out the way it did so they can finally use some of the classic villians.

If we get to see The Lizard in SM4/5, then casting Venom aside in SM3 was worth it in my books.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Venom was used great in that three part TAS series... he could have easily been the main villain for an entire film. Not as Venom... but just Brock as himself. Of course Peter would have been engulfed by the symbiote as well so Venom wouldn't need to show up until the second half. There was just no room for Venom in SM3.

Like I said, he's Brock the rest of the movie building toward the 3rd act as Venom. We agree

exactly,it's about how you write the story!! in that cartoon eddie brock was very well established before he got the symbiote!!

spider-fan,did you say carnage would be useless? wow,are you a spider-man fan,did you not read maximum carnage?! i have a question for you,how is it that cartoon from 1995 got venom right & a hundred million dollar movie could not?i got it,the cartoon really cared about it's characters,the movie exec's don't!!!!!!

Yes, I have read Maximum Carnage, and it is vastly overrated by those who love it. It is not very good at all. Carnage is not a good villain, period. Wow, he kills people. Big deal. He has no goals and is uninteresting. He is a homeless man's version of the Joker. All he is about is killing. Nothing else. Useless villain.

 

[Venom 1988]

spider-fan,did you say carnage would be useless? wow,are you a spider-man fan,did you not read maximum carnage

Obviously you never read it because its a piece of **** story and a prime example of why the 90s sucked for comics. Maximum Carnage is just a 14 issue slugfest with guests stars and is generally regarded as one of the worst Spider-Man stories ever.

 

[Chris Wallace]

1. Part three was too crowded, period. Sandman and New Goblin were plenty. No Vulture. No Venom.
2. If Arad had forced Raimi to do a fourth movie with Venom as the only villian, or in a larger role, I think Sam would have turned it down. I'm thinking he only agreed to use Venom becuase he was getting to use Sandman, his favorite villain.

You should read my post in the "sick of all this revamp talk" thread, which deals specifically with 3rd installments & why they come out so displeasing to fans.
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=313695
Basically my argument is that we keep saying "No more than three movies", & then when they try to give everybody everything that they want in the 3rd one, or finalize everything so we're not left dangling, the fans all cry foul.
And Tobey wanted Sandman. Fans wanted Venom. Raimi wanted a resolution to the Goblin Saga. With no guarantee that there would be a fourth movie, they were trying to get it all done.

 

[FaT_tONle]

Like I said, he's Brock the rest of the movie building toward the 3rd act as Venom. We agree

No because they could have ended SM3 on a cliff hanger and Venom could have been the featured villain as long as their was a side villain or separate side plots going. I could easily have seen the symbiote aga extending for two films and that's without Carnage... I personally wouldn't have gone that direction.

 

[Spider-Fan]

No because they could have ended SM3 on a cliff hanger and Venom could have been the featured villain as long as their was a side villain or separate side plots going. I could easily have seen the symbiote aga extending for two films and that's without Carnage... I personally wouldn't have gone that direction.

Venom I don't think can carry movie as the main villain. Even if he is the cliffhanger. He is at best a side villain to me. And even there, just throw him in the climax. Make it come full circle. Produces a better movie. SM3 just had a lot going on including Venom. Nothing wrong with how they used Venom as a villain. It just needed more Brock.